1kg per litre, you say?
Questions for Wise 2086 owners
- Thread starter kblades
- Start date
graycrait
Legend
@USMC-615 , Sure no one wants their tension head way off calibration but stringing a tennis racket isn't exactly a NIST issue. https://www.nist.gov/standards-and-measurements
Having worked on nuclear warheads, hydraulics, autos and firearms using all sorts of calibrated devices I looked at my NEOS 1000's calibration and decided this is the most appropriate tension measuring device for my tennis racket stringing machine:
For 12.95 from Amazon it beats my other digital scale for ease of use on the NEOS and it beats that Gamma/Prince/Alpha spring scale in simplicity and accuracy. (Why do I still have that Prince spring scale, probably the same reason I have my old Zebco fishing spring scale, it is in the bottom of a box I am too lazy to sort out).
Most of the digital scales sold by tennis outlets can be had somewhere else for less money. I see my $13.00 Weihung can be had by at least one tennis outlet for nearly twice what I paid for it. I do believe the 2090 style of tension measuring device can be found elsewhere under a variety of marketing names. I suspect the 2090 and most digital hand held scales are as accurate as a stringing machine needs to be.
Having worked on nuclear warheads, hydraulics, autos and firearms using all sorts of calibrated devices I looked at my NEOS 1000's calibration and decided this is the most appropriate tension measuring device for my tennis racket stringing machine:
For 12.95 from Amazon it beats my other digital scale for ease of use on the NEOS and it beats that Gamma/Prince/Alpha spring scale in simplicity and accuracy. (Why do I still have that Prince spring scale, probably the same reason I have my old Zebco fishing spring scale, it is in the bottom of a box I am too lazy to sort out).
Most of the digital scales sold by tennis outlets can be had somewhere else for less money. I see my $13.00 Weihung can be had by at least one tennis outlet for nearly twice what I paid for it. I do believe the 2090 style of tension measuring device can be found elsewhere under a variety of marketing names. I suspect the 2090 and most digital hand held scales are as accurate as a stringing machine needs to be.
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USMC-615
Hall of Fame
Lol…appreciate the info and understood we're not building pianos here.@USMC-615 , Sure no one wants their tension head way off calibration but this isn't exactly a NIST issue. Having worked on nuclear warheads, cars and firearms using all sorts of calibrated devices I looked at my NEOS 1000's calibration and decided this is the most appropriate tension measuring device for a tennis racket:
For 12.95 from Amazon it beats my other digital scale for ease of use on the NEOS and it beats that Gamma/Prince/Alpha spring scale in simplicity and accuracy. (Why do I still have that Prince spring scale, probably the same reason I have my old Zebco fishing spring scale).
And yes…I’ve still got four or five Zebco spring scales as well. Prob wouldn’t surprise you if I told you I’ve got five bass on the living room walls anywhere from 9 lbs to 13lbs 10 ozs. They keep the three bucks and two wild hog mounts company.
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Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
I never did either, nor on the Mighty Sensor. I did check the lockout a couple of times before I purchased the Wise. It was always dead on, so I didn't sweat it either.
Herb
Semi-Pro
I use the 2090 to check my machines. Your objective is to calibrate your machine to the calibrator. Dont worry if the calibrator is true. If you buy 10 of them they are all going to be within a range, but doubt they are all dead on. It is your job to string every racquet the same every time. As long as your machine is always true to your calibrator you will do your job. Since I have multiple machines, I calibrate all of them to to the one 2090. I check tension every time I move a machine. I also do a test pull with 3 different tensions (45, 55, 65) once a month just to make sure each machine is pulling true to my 2090.
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
USMC-615
Hall of Fame
10-4...will do.
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USMC-615
Hall of Fame
Aggravated with the pic posting. Other forums I’m in, all you have to do is select from your photo library on iPad/iphone, etc and select those photos (up to five) and hit ‘upload file’ button, then post. I downloaded Flickr on my iPhone and IPad Pro’s, just not used to doing it this way…I’ll figure it out eventually.
On another note…tracking the Wise 2086 and 2090, and will be here this Saturday 18th. Definitely quick shipping from the west coast to Ga. I looked on the site today that I bought the 2086 through, already backordered/next shipments going out around Oct 15th, so lucky I was in on this round of shipping. Seems they can’t make these things and get ‘em shipped out fast enough.
On another note…tracking the Wise 2086 and 2090, and will be here this Saturday 18th. Definitely quick shipping from the west coast to Ga. I looked on the site today that I bought the 2086 through, already backordered/next shipments going out around Oct 15th, so lucky I was in on this round of shipping. Seems they can’t make these things and get ‘em shipped out fast enough.
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USMC-615
Hall of Fame
Gents…mailman was backing out of the driveway as I was pulling in after work today. Wise order came a day earlier than expected...can’t argue with that. Two thumbs up on Wise for shipping 2-Day Priority.
Unboxed everything and all was packaged well with thick, dense foam. Machine work is spot on with the included Wise mounting plate, all socket head machine mounting bolts thread fine.
The manual says to mount the 2086 to where there’s 3 inches from the diabolo to the racquet head when mounted. My two frame support posts are mounted evenly (centered) on the turntable from one end to the other in their respective slots…spacing determined by a 100 sq in racquet head (this of course will change based on racquet head size and I’ll adjust both frame support posts in/outwards a little to accommodate). I mounted the 2086 as you face the tensioner, with the RH edge of the tensioner flush with the end of the crank bar. This gives me roughly 6 inches from the diabolo to the racquet head and the throat respectively when rotated. If I move the Wise on the crank bar to the recommended 3 inches from the racquet head when mounted, I’m getting tight for room to not only rotate the turntable 360 degs, but to get my hands btwn/under the head/throat area and wrap around the diabolo to pull tension. I think most 2086’s I’ve seen on YouTube, the RH end of the tensioner actually overhangs the end of the crank bar…I’m sure this is dependent on what machine it is.
Am I fine with the 6 inches separation btwn the diabolo and head/throat area here?
And also, I noticed this Wise diabolo does not rotate, unlike the diabolo on the Gamma crank that came with the ST II which does freely rotate. The Wise diabolo is mounted through its’ arm with a countersunk machine screw so that tells me that it’s not designed to rotate…or do I need to back off on the countersunk screw to allow rotation? The manual says nothing concerning this.
Appreciate any input fellas…I don’t want to fool nothing up before I run this thing through its’ paces.
Unboxed everything and all was packaged well with thick, dense foam. Machine work is spot on with the included Wise mounting plate, all socket head machine mounting bolts thread fine.
The manual says to mount the 2086 to where there’s 3 inches from the diabolo to the racquet head when mounted. My two frame support posts are mounted evenly (centered) on the turntable from one end to the other in their respective slots…spacing determined by a 100 sq in racquet head (this of course will change based on racquet head size and I’ll adjust both frame support posts in/outwards a little to accommodate). I mounted the 2086 as you face the tensioner, with the RH edge of the tensioner flush with the end of the crank bar. This gives me roughly 6 inches from the diabolo to the racquet head and the throat respectively when rotated. If I move the Wise on the crank bar to the recommended 3 inches from the racquet head when mounted, I’m getting tight for room to not only rotate the turntable 360 degs, but to get my hands btwn/under the head/throat area and wrap around the diabolo to pull tension. I think most 2086’s I’ve seen on YouTube, the RH end of the tensioner actually overhangs the end of the crank bar…I’m sure this is dependent on what machine it is.
Am I fine with the 6 inches separation btwn the diabolo and head/throat area here?
And also, I noticed this Wise diabolo does not rotate, unlike the diabolo on the Gamma crank that came with the ST II which does freely rotate. The Wise diabolo is mounted through its’ arm with a countersunk machine screw so that tells me that it’s not designed to rotate…or do I need to back off on the countersunk screw to allow rotation? The manual says nothing concerning this.
Appreciate any input fellas…I don’t want to fool nothing up before I run this thing through its’ paces.
The diablo is fixed, will not rotate like you are accustomed to.
Shoot me a dm, I'll show you my setup on a 6004.
Edit: I'm also about at the end of the crank bar, maybe 1/4 shy. I did that so when i move it aoround
on wheels, the bar would hit something before the Wise would. Likely really need to move it in abit further
for such but going for the best pull angle as well.
Amen. @Rabbit
Cheers!
Shoot me a dm, I'll show you my setup on a 6004.
Edit: I'm also about at the end of the crank bar, maybe 1/4 shy. I did that so when i move it aoround
on wheels, the bar would hit something before the Wise would. Likely really need to move it in abit further
for such but going for the best pull angle as well.
Amen. @Rabbit
Cheers!
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USMC-615
Hall of Fame
Yeh, was a little curious about the angle as well with it being at their 3 inch recommendation. Didn’t make a whole lot of sense to me to have such a drastic, short angle.
graycrait
Legend
@USMC-615 , When you look at the distance that your Wise is pulling look at if you need to use a starting clamp bridge on most or few of your string jobs. Too short and it is a pain to tie the knot, but you can "conserve" a couple or few inches of string by using a bridge, which only makes sense when using string off a reel or you are really conserving on hybrids and and trying to get your second half of a full set as long as you can get it for the mains on another racket.
As this is my hobby and a factory job brought home, I generally just allocate 40' for every job. There are some that "require" 21' mains and if you string a Pro Kennex Micro Mid 22x30 you will need at least 50' of string, although I found 54' required for that racket.
Of course there those who string rackets either as a hobby or business, who figure out the absolute minimum of string required for a racket, either as an economic or a simple conservation issue. I personally don't sweat a dollar or two per string job waste in exchange for ease or speed of string job.
As this is my hobby and a factory job brought home, I generally just allocate 40' for every job. There are some that "require" 21' mains and if you string a Pro Kennex Micro Mid 22x30 you will need at least 50' of string, although I found 54' required for that racket.
Of course there those who string rackets either as a hobby or business, who figure out the absolute minimum of string required for a racket, either as an economic or a simple conservation issue. I personally don't sweat a dollar or two per string job waste in exchange for ease or speed of string job.
USMC-615
Hall of Fame
Hey folks...got a minute or thirty before we do engine runs on a C-17. I noticed last night when I was running my Wise through a few paces, I was toggling through the 3 pull speeds and noticed not a whole lot of difference btwn speed 1, 2, and 3. I'm sure that's prob normal operation...guess I was expecting a real noticeable difference but not the case. I ran it at a few different reference tensions, with a piece of scrap string clamped in the middle of the turntable, and tested the pre-stretch function across the entire 10%-25% range with each reference tension...was spot on every time with the target increase in 'pre-stretch' pull, then settled down fairly quick back to reference tension. Everything seems to be fine with it.
I have my Wise mounted with about 1 inch of clearance from my mounting knobs. This is the closes I can get it and still be comfortable wrapping the string on the diablo while pulling mains. Realistically, this results in ~4inches from the racket tip to the front of the diablo on my machine.
USMC-615
Hall of Fame
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
you may have tried to post a picture but you posted a link to where you posted a picture.
Brand77
Rookie
I had the same issue. Now I installed the Quickimgur app (Android) and that works brilliant.
USMC-615
Hall of Fame
Doesn’t seem to be avail from the App Store for Iphone/IPads.
This looks great.
If not too troublesome, can you please let me know the internal measurements?
I current have a big picnic blank over mine and I think one of these would be better (man maths… lol).
thanks.
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USMC-615
Hall of Fame
Can someone click on the above pic and let me know if it takes you to my Imgbb account page? It does when I do it. May be because I’m the ‘author’ of the image, not sure. If someone would click on the image and let me know please. When I created the account at Imgbb I set the account to private.
USMC-615
Hall of Fame
…takes you to my account page? Certainly can’t have that and leave the thing wide open.
Thank you v much Sir. No rush at all. Whenever you can. Thanks.
USMC-615
Hall of Fame
@esm
Info on my Gamma cover (have a Gamma ST II crank/LO machine with Wise 2086 installed):
Length L to R 38”
Depth Front to Back 15”
Height LH side 18”
Height RH side 14”
…cover tapers 18” L to 14” R (allows bottom of cover to be horizontal when placed on the machine; turntable height in relation to tension puller height)
Gamma cover MGSMC (this particular cover fits 11 or so Gamma machines, between some tabletop and some stand models)
Gamma logo both sides
…two other Gamma covers, MGEMC (fits all electric/stand machine models I believe), and MPMC (fits some but not all tabletop models I believe). Not sure your stringing machine and definitely want to verify my info here, which model cover based on your machine. Not familiar with dimensions of the MGEMC and MPMC.
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Thank you v much. I will do a quick measure of it tomorrow and see which one may fit.
the only Gamma I have is the X-2, but I am looking for a (proper) cover for the Tomcat. Thank you again.
USMC-615
Hall of Fame
With you having a Gamma machine, I'd say your Wise unit is fairly close to where you'll probably want it.
See from 58:55-1:06:30 here...
My advice is to find the location which prevents any string (whilst being tensioned) from coming in contact with the mounted frame itself or any of the machine's mounting (this is detailed in the 360 rotation video below).
If a string is touching/rubbing against the machine's mounting hardware, or the racquet itself (i.e. throat), then you'll have unwanted friction - which, in turn, means that you're incurring a tension loss on those particular pulls.
BTW, same thing goes for pulling tension "around" a machine's shoulder/side supports whilst tensioning certain cross strings (I frequently see people [seemingly oblivious] doing this).
This too causes tension loss.
Considerations regarding 360 rotation, angles and friction...
Correct. The Wise has a diabolo (which isn't supposed to rotate).
Gamma machine's don't have a diabolo. They have a "roller guide" (which is intended to rotate/spin freely).
Again, see my 360 rotation video linked above, regarding these shallow vs. steeper angles.
I explained the reason for this here...
Speed and Pre-stretch Settings for Weiss 2086 Tension Head
Can anybody suggest speed and pre-stretch settings for multifilament string to install mains using the Weiss 2086 Tension Head. I've been told "10" is the pre-stretch setting for all tennis racquets, but I'd like to confirm that's true. Instructions seem to be hard to come by, and I have been...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com
Gamma ELS or Wise
I have a Gamma 6004 with Wise Tensioner. Got it in 2007 and used it till around 2012.. Then took a break from tennis for a while. I'm getting back into tennis and need a stringing machine again. The Gamma 6004 is pretty large and takes up a lot of space so I want to get a table version. I'm...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com
And, as for myself...
I always left mine set on "1", the slowest setting.
I've mentioned this a few times before (as well as my reasoning for doing so).
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@USMC-615,
He's talking about me.
The info. covered in the above video can be seen, put into actual use, in the video below...
Specifically, from 2:10-5:25, 13:40-14:00, and 25:40-29:25
Correct.
This is why it's a good idea to know just how many inches of string one needs to tie their knot of choice.
If one knows the (minimum) inches necessary, one could arrange to have that amount (and only that amount) exiting the frame, immediately preceding the tie-offs.
One can conserve far more than a couple/few inches of string.
Furthermore, doing so may save one a good bit of money (depending on a few different factors).
Depending on the string/frame, it can be a lot more than a dollar or two.
Speed?
Regarding speed, just how much extra time do you figure it takes to bridge to the tensioner a couple of times?
I'd say ~20 seconds (about 10 additional seconds, for each pull, as compared to tensioning without a bridge).
Of course, if one was participating in a speed stringing competition, one certainly wouldn't resort to bridging.
However, during normal stringing operations, I don't consider 20-30 additional seconds to be much of a concession (especially if/when it's getting me 3.5 additional string jobs out of a reel).
If I was a player giving you my 16x19 100sq.in. frames, and my reels of $$$ multifilament, I would be really upset once I discovered you were doing that.
But hey, maybe that's just me.
Here's a hypothetical question...
If natural gut was actually available as a 200m reel, would you continue to cut off 40' for every job??
The main reason I use the required amount of string rather than 40' for each job isn't so much for financial concerns as it is for stringing efficiency. If I've got an extra 4 - 5' of string, I really notice it on the crosses. Pulling that much extra through definitely adds up over course of a stringbed. And whilst it isn't necessarily a major concern that it will cause extra wear on the mains as you fan if you use proper technique... well, it's never going to be beneficial to pull through significantly more string than you need.
graycrait
Legend
@Wes ,
I gave up using string that costs much more than $2.50/set. If I conserve I can get a stringbed as low as $2.41 or as high as $2.66 if I string like a spendthrift. I do have two half sets of Klip Nat Gut, the most expensive string in my cooler which I can't figure out a good use for any longer. I also have a partial reel of Ash Kev and a partial reel of Zyex Pro that I use on rarer occasions that I do sort of conserve. The only poly I have left is some stuff I got on sale for $4.75/set. And I do use a bridge on occasion and have "spare" clamp set up as a permanent bridging tool, but I generally like to have enough string at the end that I don't have to fiddle with it much at tie off.
@Dags , I agree with you as far as having too much string to handle, which is the case most of the time when you cut a set in half, but I am not going to quibble when using a $4.00/set of SG.
@Wes , If someone wants their racket strung by me with their personal high dollar string they better give me enough so that I don't mind stringing their racket. Their is only one guy here that does that and I don't charge him labor so he has no problem giving me "enough" line that I don't look at his string job as a PIA.
I've pretty much given up on expensive string. In fact since I have found the joy of playing with and the ease of stringing 17 & 18G syn gut I can see a day not far in the future where I will have little else on hand. Also I string as a hobby, not as a business and those that know that appreciate it. I often encourage others to get their rackets strung elsewhere, plus the fact it is highly likely I won't have the string they like and I won't buy it.
The box:
I gave up using string that costs much more than $2.50/set. If I conserve I can get a stringbed as low as $2.41 or as high as $2.66 if I string like a spendthrift. I do have two half sets of Klip Nat Gut, the most expensive string in my cooler which I can't figure out a good use for any longer. I also have a partial reel of Ash Kev and a partial reel of Zyex Pro that I use on rarer occasions that I do sort of conserve. The only poly I have left is some stuff I got on sale for $4.75/set. And I do use a bridge on occasion and have "spare" clamp set up as a permanent bridging tool, but I generally like to have enough string at the end that I don't have to fiddle with it much at tie off.
@Dags , I agree with you as far as having too much string to handle, which is the case most of the time when you cut a set in half, but I am not going to quibble when using a $4.00/set of SG.
@Wes , If someone wants their racket strung by me with their personal high dollar string they better give me enough so that I don't mind stringing their racket. Their is only one guy here that does that and I don't charge him labor so he has no problem giving me "enough" line that I don't look at his string job as a PIA.
I've pretty much given up on expensive string. In fact since I have found the joy of playing with and the ease of stringing 17 & 18G syn gut I can see a day not far in the future where I will have little else on hand. Also I string as a hobby, not as a business and those that know that appreciate it. I often encourage others to get their rackets strung elsewhere, plus the fact it is highly likely I won't have the string they like and I won't buy it.
The box:
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McLovin
Legend
So, here is what I do for Flickr:
- Log in and click on 'You -> Photostream' (shows you images that you've uploaded to your account).
- Click on the image you want to post here.
- Click on the 'Share Photo' icon in the lower-right (the one w/ the curved arrow pointing to the right).
- In the popup dialog, select the 'BBCode' tab.
- Select the size of the image.
- Copy the URL and paste here.
- Remove the leading 'url' tag (up to, but not including the first 'img' tag).
- Remove everything after the first closing 'img' tag. Should leave you with the following (minus the blank spaces I inserted between the '[' and ']' rackets).
[ img ]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51386192220_c00cccbe75_w.jpg[ /img ]
Now your image will be inserted into the page, and it won't directly link back to your account:
I realize that seems like an arduous process, but in reality, doing it through a computer (and not a mobile device), it takes all of about 15 seconds.
And in case you were wondering...the beer was 'meh'. A little too much spice flavoring for me, and it had an odd finish. Disappointing, really, as I like most of their beers (their Bourbon Barrel Porter is possibly the best beer I've ever had stateside).
USMC-615
Hall of Fame
@McLovin …appreciate the help, thanks.
Trying a pic again through my IPhone 11 Pro Max, above my text here. If it doesn’t work I’ll delete the photo in case someone can just tap on it and it leads directly back to my Flickr account. A little different on IPhone/IPads no doubt when compared to a desktop/laptop. I don’t get any dialogue box to select ‘BBCode’, nor any box to ‘select image size’.
Trying a pic again through my IPhone 11 Pro Max, above my text here. If it doesn’t work I’ll delete the photo in case someone can just tap on it and it leads directly back to my Flickr account. A little different on IPhone/IPads no doubt when compared to a desktop/laptop. I don’t get any dialogue box to select ‘BBCode’, nor any box to ‘select image size’.
USMC-615
Hall of Fame
@McLovin …After posting the pic above, I could click on the posted pic and it immediately went straight back to my Flickr account, so I deleted the pic real quick. It may have something to do with what you’re referring to as selecting ‘BBCode’ as far as what you see on a desktop, before you’re prompted to select image size. Wonder if this changes the code of the pic to a ‘read only’ type deal? Just not sure.
