Questions on S&V tactics

[Ballinbob]

Hey everyone

Just had a couple questions on serve and volley patterns/tactics. I want to make the most out of my S&V game (for that's my style of play), and wanted your help

I have a S&V type of play, except my volleys are average at best. If I was to asses my net game, I would say: moves poorly around net, basic technique on volleys down. can volley well if I don't have to move much.

On the other hand, I have a reliable kick serve that I can place well to either side. My kick serve kicks around 6-6.5 ft on average and it's just the one serve that really clicked for me. It is a slower serve for me for sure, but it's been getting the job done.

My question for you guys is, what S&V tactic will get me a volley that I don't have to move as much for? Should I serve out wide, at the body, or down the T? I will continue to work on my volleys so they are better, but for now I want to know where I should put my serve to get myself a makeable volley because I feel this is hindering my game

Edit- I have a tournament that starts on the 19th of this month. They will be played on fast indoor courts, which suits my style of play well. I was thinking of changing some things for this tourney though. Should I use big flat serves on these courts for first serves and keep my kick serve as a 2nd serve? These courts are riddiculously fast and I was thinking I would benefit from using this type of serve? Also, thoughts on chip n charge on this fast surface or does it not even matter?



Thanks guys

 

[OhDear]

Advantages of different serve patterns:
1) Out wide- If you serve out wide enough, your opponent has to scramble to put the ball back in. A good serve out wide will force your opponent to hit a weak reply towards the middle of the court.
2) Down the middle- If you serve down the middle, you are cutting off angles. A good serve down the middle leaves your opponent in a panic, he or she doesn't know how he's supposed to get it by you.
3) Body serve- A body serve is, in my opinion, the best serve for S&V players. Even an okay/decent body serve forces a weak reply, and a great volley.

Disadvantages of different serve patterns:
1) Wide serve- Any wide serve less than okay gives your opponent more angles. If you hit a wide serve, particularly to your opponent's stronger wing, he or she can either blast it down the line, or just return the favor with an angled passing shot.
2) Down the line- A serve down the T that is less than par means that your opponent is now returning the ball a lot faster timewise. In essence, you have now hit serve that is traveling the shortest distance possible, and in turn your opponent hits the return when you are farther from the net. This also means that your opponent can hit a dipper at your feet and your stuck.
3) Body serve- I've found the body serve is best, but hell, it's incredibly hard to actually hit a body serve. Just a few inches off and all you've done is given them the ball to do as they please.

Just experiment, usually for RH players against RH players, the normal play is to hit a kicker out wide on the Ad court, and a kicker down the T on the Deuce court.

 

[joe sch]

Bob,

Ofcouse S/V players need to volley really well moving forward and laterally.

If your weakness is "moves poorly around net, basic technique on volleys down. can volley well if I don't have to move much." then you are probably not moving forward well and make a good approach volley.

If your challenged "volleying down" then your probably not using an Eastern or Continental grip and probably not making contact out in front of you.

Volley mechanics with body position during movement is an advanced old school techique that is difficult to explain in a short post and its hard to find expert coaches for these techniques. In general, your first volley should be deep to cornes or a sharp angle, in either case, your opponent should be challenged to get to the placement and produce a good passing shot. You should then be able to end the point on the second volley, assuming your first volley was effective so your opponent could not pass you. Master the forward movement with a S/V game and you will not be doing that much lateral movement like when playing doubles.

Best wishes for your progress,
Joe

 

[Ballinbob]

Bob,

Ofcouse S/V players need to volley really well moving forward and laterally.

If your weakness is "moves poorly around net, basic technique on volleys down. can volley well if I don't have to move much." then you are probably not moving forward well and make a good approach volley.

If your challenged "volleying down" then your probably not using an Eastern or Continental grip and probably not making contact out in front of you.

Volley mechanics with body position during movement is an advanced old school techique that is difficult to explain in a short post and its hard to find expert coaches for these techniques. In general, your first volley should be deep to cornes or a sharp angle, in either case, your opponent should be challenged to get to the placement and produce a good passing shot. You should then be able to end the point on the second volley, assuming your first volley was effective so your opponent could not pass you. Master the forward movement with a S/V game and you will not be doing that much lateral movement like when playing doubles.

Best wishes for your progress,
Joe

Thanks Joe. Yeah I definitley do have some volley problems and I should probably make a vid ASAP. I do use a continental grip on my volleys. But you make a good point about the foward movement vs the lateral movement. I will work on making a more foreceful first volley to put me in control of the point. But should you have an opend racket face when volleying or what? Because alot of my volleys float and I think this has something to do with it

I just feel clumsy moving at the net though. Like in warmups, when my opponent is hitting balls right to me, I can do whatever I want with those volleys. I guess theres no quick fix for this though, just a matter of practice I'm guessing

 

[Bagumbawalla]

Tennis is a game of repitition, of finding your strokes and paterns and practicing until they are automatic.

So, start with your volleys. Begin by getting your partner across the net (a couple steps back) and volley at a slow/controlled pace until you can keep it up virtually forever. Then practice moving the ball forehand to backhand, but still slowly and in control. Then practice crosscourt volleys fron both sides. Try to concentrate on your form. Watch professional players (on youtube, for example) and check out their form. Keep it simple, stay on your toes, watch the ball. As you become absolutely confident in your volleys, then have the partner get a giant bucket of balls and go the the baseline, starting slowly, feed you balls while you hit them back. Eventually, pick up the pace, have him move you, bit by bit, to the left and right- and, occasionally up above the head. Next practice hitting your volley to specific points- deep to the corners or wide.

Next, practice half-volleys. Stand just inside the baseline and have the partner toss short, low balls about mid-court. Your job is to come in, and get the ball up and over the net and to a specific spot (use a cone or towel as an "aiming" point.

Next practice serving and coming in. At first have the partner return down the middle so you can groove that shot, then the same down the line. Eventually, mix it up (with some lobs thrown in).

In general, there aretwo kinds of serve and volley players- those that come in behind a serve that they know will put pressure on the opponent, andthose that come in behind everything- first and second serve. The secont type, as you might assune, must be the better mover and volleyer- ready for anything. You might try playing in the first style, for a bit, until it all comes together for you.

Experiment with various serves. Your kick serve may be reliable, but on occasion you will need to mix it up (especially in singles). Try a slice down the middle and a kick or slice into the body for some variation.

 

[LuckyR]

If S&V is your style of play, I am suprised you don't have a more specific questions based on matches you have lost. I certainly would not be relying on kick serves alone nowadays for a S&V style as you are likely to run into folks who will either step in and blast them, step in an chip them to your toes or sit back and pass you with modern forehands (especially if your net movement is suspect).

 

[RoddickAce]

I find mixing it up with a slice serve up the T on the ad court on your second serves and then wrongfooting them by volleying to his backhand (assuming he's a righty) very effective, especially on big points.

 

[Slicendicer]

Practice the medium pace slice/topspin SHORT to the deuce court. Believe me when I say 90% of JR. tennis players expect the 2nd serve to the BH. If you can slide one short and outwide, you can expect to catch your opponant off guard. Throw in the occasional 1st serve kicker down the T on the Ad court... variety is your weapon as you can not be a 1 trick pony S & V player. I practice underhand serves... totally legit and with lots of spin is a garanteed free point... if you have the stones to serve it.

 

[Geezer Guy]

I'd say for S&V you should serve mostly either to their backhand or into their body. These will (hopefully) yield weaker returns giving you more time to close the net and hit a stong volley.

You can serve to their forehand when it's in the middle of the court. Never go wide to their forehand. Serving down the T will result in reduced angles to pass you wide. You should be able to get a racquet on any return, even if you've hit to their forehand. If you serve wide to their forehand they can pretty easily pass you down the line or with a sharply angled cross-court shot.

The last time I was at Newk's, one of the pro's said that he almost always S&V'ed, and he almost always hit a kick serve (both first and second). He said the kicker gave him more time to close the net than a hard flat or slice serve.

 

[Ballinbob]

If S&V is your style of play, I am suprised you don't have a more specific questions based on matches you have lost. I certainly would not be relying on kick serves alone nowadays for a S&V style as you are likely to run into folks who will either step in and blast them, step in an chip them to your toes or sit back and pass you with modern forehands (especially if your net movement is suspect).

Can you elaborate on the bolded part? I mean I loose most of matches against counterpunchers who can move me around at net, is that what your asking? I think I have the basic volley technique down, but maybe not. I will post a vid for you guys to help me out. And I thought kick serves are a good S&V serve? Should I use a flat serve then?

Tennis is a game of repitition, of finding your strokes and paterns and practicing until they are automatic.

Experiment with various serves. Your kick serve may be reliable, but on occasion you will need to mix it up (especially in singles). Try a slice down the middle and a kick or slice into the body for some variation.

Thanks so much for the drills! Those were great I will be sure to try those out. My slice is a low percentage serve for me right now b/c I never practice it, but I will start using it again for sure for variety

 

[Ballinbob]

Practice the medium pace slice/topspin SHORT to the deuce court. Believe me when I say 90% of JR. tennis players expect the 2nd serve to the BH. If you can slide one short and outwide, you can expect to catch your opponant off guard. Throw in the occasional 1st serve kicker down the T on the Ad court... variety is your weapon as you can not be a 1 trick pony S & V player. I practice underhand serves... totally legit and with lots of spin is a garanteed free point... if you have the stones to serve it.

Thanks. I think it's pretty clear now that I need to add variety to my serves to do good as a S&Ver. My serves usually catch my opponent off gaurd for a few games, but after they get used to the spin they start returning alot better. So chances are if I start adding a slice serve to my serve slection and varying the placement more, I will get easier volleys?

I mean I'm 15 and in tournaments 99.9% of my opponents are counter punchers who have a solid forehand and backhand that never miss but aren't that powerful either. I can keep up with these guys just fine for the 1st set, but it seems after that I have to add alot more juice to my serve b/c they get used to it. I loose a TON of matches in 3 setters where I almost always win the 1st set. In highschool matches I'm the same way. Looks like variety is what I need to work on pronto

You can serve to their forehand when it's in the middle of the court. Never go wide to their forehand. Serving down the T will result in reduced angles to pass you wide. You should be able to get a racquet on any return, even if you've hit to their forehand. If you serve wide to their forehand they can pretty easily pass you down the line or with a sharply angled cross-court shot.

The last time I was at Newk's, one of the pro's said that he almost always S&V'ed, and he almost always hit a kick serve (both first and second). He said the kicker gave him more time to close the net than a hard flat or slice serve.

Thanks for the advice there. Serving down the T seems like a good choice because they don't have as many angles to hit in. I think I am going to mix in slices to the forehand like Slicendicer suggested for varieties sake. But I think my Go-to serve will be a kick serve down the T, but I think I will do alot better if I start slicing more serves and hitting my flat serve once in a while

 

[Blade0324]

There are a couple of ways to look at what type of serve to hit when playing S&V tennis. One way of thinking is that if you hit a big flat serve you are going to get a weak return and give yourself an easier volley. The down side to this is that the harder you hit the serve the harder it is likely to come back at you, thus giving you less time to get as close to the net. The other school of thought is that you are better served hitting a slice or kick serve that is a little off pace, which while it may be a bit easier for your oponent to return will give you more time to get closer to net and cut off their angles. It's really up to you what is most effective for your game.

 

[naylor]

I play S&V also, and for me the trick is to get my 1st serve %age up to around 70% very quickly in the match. For that, I forget about flat serves in the first few games, and just go for kickers / topspin serves. From the deuce side, I move them from down the T to the middle of the box, to topspin half-way up the sideline. From the ad side, it's always to the backhand. What that means is that my serve grooves quickly, so if I miss a first I can play a second serve as good as a first serve and close to a line. And then I can start tweaking up my first serve - flattening it down the T from either side, going for wide sliders to the deuce court, or going down the middle with sidespin from the ad court - knowing that if I miss I'll still have a decent second serve as back-up.

What you have to do next is play the %ages.

If you go wide either side, then you have to move forward diagonally to fully cover the down-the-line return on that side on the volley. Your opponent will be so far wide than even a weak cross-court volley should win the point - and even if he manages a better cross-court return towards the middle of the court you can still dump a volley on his side of the court. If he hits the back corner down-the-line, or the front corner with a sharp-angled cross-court, just say "good shot - do it again!".

If you go down the middle, then you have to move forward down the middle to cover the middle and narrow down the angles either side. And then - unless you have good hands - stick to the simple principle of volleying cross-court (from the outside in).

 

[jmverdugo]

S&V is your style of game because you just want it that way or because you think is the best way to play given you strenghs and abilities? You should play according to your abilities and little by little add other things to improve your game.

In any case, here are my tips:

- Do what BagumBawalla said. If you cant find a partner go to the wall and stand as if you where at the T in a regular court and practice there high volleys , low volleys, half volleys, bh volleys, fh volleys, untill your arm cant take it any more.

- Practice smash and overheads, favor placement rather than force. ( you can do this against the wall too).

- Practice the run after your serve and the split before the volley, it doesnt matter where you are you have to stop and watch your oponent as he hits and then move forward (if possible) to volley (with time you will need less time between the split and the time you opponent hit, it will be very fast, watch stepanek, federer does it very good too).

- First volley shouldnt be a winner, put it deep and to the corners and put away the next one. Obviously if it is an easy first volley put it away but most of the time the first volley you are at the T and either you are to far away, it is a low volley or a half volley and it is hard to put away those.

- Another thing you can try is to S&V in two times, I mean serve, step into the court, hit a deep ground stroke and then go to volley.

- Kick serves are very good to S&V but I preffer a slice serve, kick serves can be hit down to your shoes which is hard to return. If you are playing singles I wouldnt go with my fastest flat serve because the faster the serve is the less time you have to get to the volley zone. Slice serves works really good.

- Remember that a volley winner doesnt have to be fast nor deep, I think is better short, angled and that the ball doesnt travel more than 2 ft after the bounce. If things are to tight go for deep and low, if is really really tight go for deep no pace and cover the net as much as you can, I have a little trick that works very well, when your opponent has a easy passing shot oportunity stay on one side on the court and as sson as he is going to hit move to the other side.

and finally try to keep the face of your racket at face level all the time ready to go to either side. Body shots are easier to hit with bh volleys than iwht fh volleys. You elbows should always be infront of your body and there should be a square angle between you racket and your are. Of course all this is "if is possible" in the end you will find situations where you will have to hit the ball back in the more ridiculous ways.

 

[Nellie]

Are you getting passed and how? Myself, I went through a time when everyone lobbed off my kick serve, and I got tired of stopping and running backwards to hit a tough overhead (too much energy!) so I started serving more down the middle and setting up for a first volley at the service line.

Some good advice is to split early and react to the opponent's return as quickly. So you split when your serve bounces in the service court and position yourself to be in the middle of possible return angles (wide serve means more to the side, by one/two steps). Also, get low. I bet most of you movement problems are caused by rushing before the opponent's return.

As I get older, I hit more up the middle on kick serves because I cannot stand the short angle return in front of me. I prefer slice serves wide because keeping the ball low makes the angled returns harder.

Remember your basic patterns - return low volleys deep and down the line (you are trying to force the opponent to hit a tough shot, not to hit a winner) , while high volleys are hit cross court at sharp angles (you are trying to hit a winner)

Also, you have two basic plays - (1) serve wide and then volley crosscourt; (2) serve down the middle and volley behind the returner

On the body serves, I tend to hit cross court too, but this will vary according to the returner.

 

[snvplayer]

It can depend on who's returning...
Well, serve down the middle is going to give you the return that you will have to move least, but that doesn't mean it's going to be easy return.

For serve-volleyers, it's critical to develop serves that are very difficult to return whether it's because of the variety, spin, pace, or placement. And, you actually need a combination of all these things. You can mix up the placement as much as you want but they got to have some pace otherwise it's going to get picked on as you play at higher levels.

Another way is to recogzine how the person handles your serve. I can hit a pretty decent slice out wide on deuce and ok kicker on the ad side. People I play against don't return the same way. Some guys alway catch the kicker late and hit it down the line. Other guys will crush my kicker cross court. Also, some guys can return my slice cross court and other guys can't get it cross court.

You've got to recoginze their shot patterns and exploit them.

Also, you cannot become a serve volleyer if you can't volley when you have to move.

 

[LuckyR]

Can you elaborate on the bolded part? I mean I loose most of matches against counterpunchers who can move me around at net, is that what your asking? I think I have the basic volley technique down, but maybe not. I will post a vid for you guys to help me out. And I thought kick serves are a good S&V serve? Should I use a flat serve then?

Yes, that was exactly what I was asking. Counterpunchers have among, if not the best passing shots going. So if you are mostly (only) losing to those guys, you are probably doing OK. To beat them, you can't continue to play S&V at your current level. Your serve is either not bothering them enough, or your volleys aren't good enough to deal with their returns.

Most folks in your shoes would find it easier to hit better serves, than volleys. So I would crank up my first serve and continue to S&V on it but switch away from S&V on second serves (most of the time) when playing counterpunchers.

 

[Ballinbob]

Yes, that was exactly what I was asking. Counterpunchers have among, if not the best passing shots going. So if you are mostly (only) losing to those guys, you are probably doing OK. To beat them, you can't continue to play S&V at your current level. Your serve is either not bothering them enough, or your volleys aren't good enough to deal with their returns.

Most folks in your shoes would find it easier to hit better serves, than volleys. So I would crank up my first serve and continue to S&V on it but switch away from S&V on second serves (most of the time) when playing counterpunchers.

Thanks to everyone's advice! I play a S&V game because my serve is the best part of my game and I wanted to base my style of play around that. I'm also really athletic (11.75s 100m dash time) and can move quick, but not really that efficiently. I'm also 6"2 and I was told it's easier to S&V if your tall. I know I can't be a good S&Ver if I don't work on my movement, and I definitley will. Just wanted some quick tips thats all, I will not give up on working on movement. Those were alot of great tips though so thanks, will keep all that in mind!

And yes Lucky I'm more of an Ivo Karlovic S&Ver (not as fast, but just in the sense where I rely on my serve too much). I did play today against a regular hitting partner and sliced alot more than I use too, and that got me a good number of points just from his errors returning it. It was nice to see that and it was a real eye opener that too be a successful S&Ver I need to vary my serves/tactics. The thing I liked most about the slice though is you can hit it to so much harder than a kick serve! It's nice to hit some faster serves once in a while and when you throw that in with a twist serve once in a while it can do some damage. And yeah I definitley have the biggest problems with counter punchers. The more aggressive counter punchers I do fine with but it seems like some people are just made for passing shots and love a target...

I will keep working on it and will post a vid ASAP! And make sure to bug me about the vid so I don't forget too lol b/c my memory sucks

 

[sh@de]

Hey just out of interest, if you're having problems with counterpunchers, maybe instead of approaching the net, draw them up? It depends on how good they are at the net, but presumably counterpunchers like to hog the baseline... if they are comfortable at the net, forget what I said. But if they aren't, maybe you could work on your passing shots, and then draw them up to the net and pass them? It's just taking them out of their comfort zone.

 

[Josherer]

Hey everyone

Just had a couple questions on serve and volley patterns/tactics. I want to make the most out of my S&V game (for that's my style of play), and wanted your help

I have a S&V type of play, except my volleys are average at best. If I was to asses my net game, I would say: moves poorly around net, basic technique on volleys down. can volley well if I don't have to move much.

On the other hand, I have a reliable kick serve that I can place well to either side. My kick serve kicks around 6-6.5 ft on average and it's just the one serve that really clicked for me. It is a slower serve for me for sure, but it's been getting the job done.

My question for you guys is, what S&V tactic will get me a volley that I don't have to move as much for? Should I serve out wide, at the body, or down the T? I will continue to work on my volleys so they are better, but for now I want to know where I should put my serve to get myself a makeable volley because I feel this is hindering my game

Edit- I have a tournament that starts on the 19th of this month. They will be played on fast indoor courts, which suits my style of play well. I was thinking of changing some things for this tourney though. Should I use big flat serves on these courts for first serves and keep my kick serve as a 2nd serve? These courts are riddiculously fast and I was thinking I would benefit from using this type of serve? Also, thoughts on chip n charge on this fast surface or does it not even matter?



Thanks guys

Hi Mate,

Chipping and charging actually works quite well on fast indoor hard. The ball tends to slide and keep low on these courts.

If you were to keep the chip low (with a good amount of slice) and come in, your opponent will be forced to hit the passing shot a fair bit above net height to componsate for the low skidding ball which should hopefully give you an easier volley.

 

[teppeiahn1]

I suggest first, learn to place serves and learn different kinds of serves.

You can not be a 1 trick pony, you always have to have the guy guessing. Also, you have to find when the other guy doesnt want.