Quick Backhand Tip

[Tennis Aloha]

When you hold the racket on the forehands, volleys, serve, overheads, and forehand returns of serve, you spread the hand and get a trigger finger type grip that we all have heard of.

When you hit a backhand however, it is recommended to hold the racket with a fist type grip. Not spreading the hand, but keeping the fingers together.
I would say that the backhand is already a conservative stroke in the sense that the shot has support from the stance and there's plenty of leverage already and therefore room for control. Having a spread hand does not ultimately help with stability, and having a grip that allows you to swing more freely (fist) to create speed makes sense.

What do you think?

 

[travlerajm]

 

[Permitlady]

When every other grip you use is a pistol grip you naturally apply it to the ohbh as well.

I noticed during the time I was serving with a fisted hammer grip my forehand became fingers together so did my backhand.

 

[Curious]

Ryan thinks fist grip is one of the key issues with Ian’s backhand in this recent video.

 

[coolvinny]

Coincidentally, I recently dabbled with a bit of pistol grip for my OHBH and, to my surprise, I immediately got more pace on the ball. I use almost a SW backhand grip. I’m going to play around with this for a while.

 

[ballmachineguy]

WWSWD?

 

[Dragy]

Me did shift from tight fist to moderately spread grip on BH at some point and never looked back. Better feel and control: before I could rip it quite effectively, but it was very one-dimensional. Just one cookie-cutter swing which didn’t apply to where it didn’t

But that’s me more than the grip I guess. But the grip shift might have been of good help and a trigger to progress on

 

[Dragy]

To add: I actually think OHBH is much less reliant on wrist mobility (if any) than FH or 2HBH. So it’s kind of not that crucial between tight/spread grip as it is to produce the whole swing with good timing, finding proper “slot” and body involvement.

We see brilliant BHs from Thiem with literally fist grip and Tsitsipas with widespread pistol. And Stan/Roger in between.

With Ian it was more addressing too weak grip (open stringbed) I believe. Don’t agree with Rian on being against arm rolling, btw. It’s great tool and part of the stroke, just maybe not good to compensate for conti grip.

I’d go with working on good ball approach, setup in advance, turn away coiling, get racquet back with RH up, then dropping to find the slot with off-hand on the throat and then swinging at the ball to make good contact (not allowing it to be too close to the tip). Then look how ball behaves and if your grip provides good stringbed orientation. If all good - practice

 

[zill]

Ryan thinks fist grip is one of the key issues with Ian’s backhand in this recent video.

I told you to use a semi western bh grip @Curious

 

[Curious]

I told you to use a semi western bh grip @Curious

He's recommending a proper eastern backhand grip, not a semi western one. Ian's grip is more towards continental.

 

[zill]

He's recommending a proper eastern backhand grip, not a semi western one. Ian's grip is more towards continental.

You use an eastern and not getting enough topspin. Hence try semi western.

 

[Shroud]

How did that not end this thread???

 

[Shroud]

You use an eastern and not getting enough topspin. Hence try semi western.

Good luck. @Curious has a bad habit of not listening, finding some vid where the same advice is mentioned, and then suddenly he will post the same advice as a revelation….

Besides the SW bh grip is too outside the box for him.

 

[zill]

Good luck. @Curious has a bad habit of not listening, finding some vid where the same advice is mentioned, and then suddenly he will post the same advice as a revelation….

Besides the SW bh grip is too outside the box for him.

yep he tried it with me once on court. Hit some gems but I guess Fed doesn’t (nor Wawrinka) use it so it’s not for him.

 

[Shroud]

yep he tried it with me once on court. Hit some gems but I guess Fed doesn’t (nor Wawrinka) use it so it’s not for him.

no surprise there! He just needs to see Henin crushing the bh and maybe his innate stubbornness will lessen

 

[ballmachineguy]

You use an eastern and not getting enough topspin. Hence try semi western.

The grip isn’t why he doesn’t get spin.

 

[zill]

The grip isn’t why he doesn’t get spin.

A more closed racquet face will force him to brush up on the ball more otherwise ball will go under the net!

 

[ballmachineguy]

Good luck. @Curious has a bad habit of not listening, finding some vid where the same advice is mentioned, and then suddenly he will post the same advice as a revelation….

I’m waiting for his thread on his discovery that the hips don’t initiate the backhand.

 

[ballmachineguy]

A more closed racquet face will force him to brush up on the ball more otherwise ball will go under the net!

Grip is a band aid. His backhand needs stitches and antibiotics.

 

[zill]

Grip is a band aid. His backhand needs stitches and antibiotics.

The best he can do now is to adopt an extreme grip and 'loop' every ball on that side. This will negate his lack of drop somewhat. He will still be in trouble when the opponent hits hard deep balls to that side though.

 

[ballmachineguy]

The best he can do now is to adopt an extreme grip and 'loop' every ball on that side.

That may be fine for the pimply-faced kids he is currently playing, but I have total UTR 12+ domination plans for him.

 

[Shroud]

Grip is a band aid. His backhand needs stitches and antibiotics.

IMHO his issue is trust. A strong grip will let him HIT the ball and give him the trust to let go and get the spin and safety he is looking for. Ironically that safety comes with a bit of abandon...

 

[ballmachineguy]

IMHO his issue is trust. A strong grip will let him HIT the ball and give him the trust to let go and get the spin and safety he is looking for. Ironically that safety comes with a bit of abandon...

IMHO he uses his body completely wrong. He does unnecessary movements which take him off the target line and leaves him in a poor position to generate spin. I see it as totally physical, nothing mental, well, other than stubbornness.

 

[zill]

IMHO he uses his body completely wrong. He does unnecessary movements which take him off the target line and leaves him in a poor position to generate spin. I see it as totally physical, nothing mental, well, other than stubbornness.

But when using a strong grip it should force him to hit a bit more 'right' otherwise the ball will not pass the net.

An example is parents push their young adult kid out of the family home. Why? Because he will be forced to take more responsibility himself otherwise will not survive. Maybe not the best way to educate their kid but surely they have tried everything else already. And the kid is too stubborn to learn and change.

 

[Curious]

Don’t worry guys, I won’t need a backhand soon! A deadly forehand is on its way.

 

[zill]

Don’t worry guys, I won’t need a backhand soon! A deadly forehand is on its way.

Still you won’t survive in 4.0 with just a fh knowing the way you play.

 

[Injured Again]

That was such a helpful video. The guys is right on so many levels. I'm looking forward to applying these ideas.
7 years though.. come on man!

My advice - don't worry about "correcting" the left hand. You don't have to have a stroke that imitates an ATP pro because you are not an ATP pro and trying to perfect "beautiful" strokes only leads to frustration without increasing your ability to actually play tennis. It can lead you down the road to believing that if you can make everything just right technique-wise, your strokes will work. Only they won't because you don't have the other groundwork necessary to support that aesthetic stroke. Work on the stuff that rec players need to worry about - footwork, positioning, shot selection, and fitness.

 

[1HBHFTW]

I use more of a pistol SW. I feel like I get more control especially when going DTL, which is my favorite shot.

 

[Curious]

I use more of a pistol SW. I feel like I get more control especially when going DTL, which is my favorite shot.

You’re advised to ditch your SW grip on your thread, I’m advised to switch to SW grip here. Funny things.

 

[1HBHFTW]

You’re advised to ditch your SW grip on your thread, I’m advised to switch to SW grip here. Funny things.

Ha yep! I’m a firm believer in “do what works for you” so take this with a grain of salt, but one thing you may want to consider (if your issue is generating topspin) is practicing with a SW a couple times. It would force you to alter your swing path for more topspin, but then you could switch back to your natural grip and hopefully still use the same swing to get the topspin and just hit a little deeper.

I know you’ve had a lot of back and forth on it so not trying to step in the middle. Just throwing out the possibility of using it as a “means to an end” instead of permanently changing your grip.

 

[ballmachineguy]

My advice - don't worry about "correcting" the left hand. You don't have to have a stroke that imitates an ATP pro because you are not an ATP pro and trying to perfect "beautiful" strokes only leads to frustration without increasing your ability to actually play tennis. It can lead you down the road to believing that if you can make everything just right technique-wise, your strokes will work.

Do you know why ATP pros use the technique they do? It works! Mind telling me what about a pro’s stroke is so inimitable?

 

[Bobs tennis]

My advice - don't worry about "correcting" the left hand. You don't have to have a stroke that imitates an ATP pro because you are not an ATP pro and trying to perfect "beautiful" strokes only leads to frustration without increasing your ability to actually play tennis. It can lead you down the road to believing that if you can make everything just right technique-wise, your strokes will work. Only they won't because you don't have the other groundwork necessary to support that aesthetic stroke. Work on the stuff that rec players need to worry about - footwork, positioning, shot selection, and fitness.

Now this I agree with. 90% of the players on the site are trying to hit like the pro's. Aint gonna happen. You don't have the time, money, or athleticism. Find what works for you and grow with it.

 

[ballmachineguy]

Now this I agree with. 90% of the players on the site are trying to hit like the pro's. Aint gonna happen. You don't have the time, money, or athleticism. Find what works for you and grow with it.

Wrong forum.

 

[Curious]

Messi retires and wants to learn playing tennis and comes here for advice.
-Mate, don’t worry. You’ll figure it out!
But I don’t know how to hit the ball.
- it’ll happen, just keep hitting, mate!

 

[zill]

Messi retires and wants to learn playing tennis and comes here for advice.

He won't be coming here don't worry.

 

[Shroud]

Messi retires and wants to learn playing tennis and comes here for advice.
-Mate, don’t worry. You’ll figure it out!
But I don’t know how to hit the ball.
- it’ll happen, just keep hitting, mate!

Yeah but he would listen

 

[Curious]

Yeah but he would listen

Yeah but I doubt he’d accept everything he hears

 

[AnyPUG]

Ryan thinks fist grip is one of the key issues with Ian’s backhand in this recent video.

Well made video, but misses the primary reason where his ohbh needs improvement. Very weak coiling in the first place. The butt cap should be pointing to the side fence at the peak of coiling, right now it's not even 50% there. Instead he raises the racket to generate power and puts too much stress on the shoulder.
Anyone trying to improve ohbh, check out a recent video by "one minute tennis" instead of 2minute tennis.

 

[ballmachineguy]

Very weak coiling in the first place. The butt cap should be pointing to the side fence at the peak of coiling, right now it's not even 50% there.

Hard to get there with the hitting arm bent to almost 90 degrees. Thiem and Wawrinka are nearly straight before moving to contact. Racquet is able to get much further behind the trailing hip. Not to mention how that engages the upper back and back of the shoulder for power.

 

[Injured Again]

Do you know why ATP pros use the technique they do? It works! Mind telling me what about a pro’s stroke is so inimitable?

They use that technique because it works best at the level of their game, and it's their job to repeat the preparation a hundred thousand times to get it correct. A recreational player may not hit 100,000 backhands in five years, and definitely doesn't have access to coaches all the time who can provide immediate feedback when something isn't done correctly.

If you're a rec player who has a full time coach, will hit 100,000 backhands in a short period, and has the gift of being able to not only repeat the shot but repeat all of the footwork and everything else necessary to require such fine details, then go for it!

As an aside, not every ATP pro has this technique. Shapavalov's off hand never crosses the line of his back hip.

 

[Dragy]

They use that technique because it works best at the level of their game, and it's their job to repeat the preparation a hundred thousand times to get it correct. A recreational player may not hit 100,000 backhands in five years, and definitely doesn't have access to coaches all the time who can provide immediate feedback when something isn't done correctly.

If you're a rec player who has a full time coach, will hit 100,000 backhands in a short period, and has the gift of being able to not only repeat the shot but repeat all of the footwork and everything else necessary to require such fine details, then go for it!

As an aside, not every ATP pro has this technique. Shapavalov's off hand never crosses the line of his back hip.

The very first ball, it even bumps into the hip

Pros use the shots they do not because they are polished to perfection, but because their fundamentals are most solid and applicable to all the challenges, including being late, off-balanced, stretched, or forced to hit multiple shots consequently without missing. They get taught techniques that in a best way allows good and consistent outcome.

After they learn efficient techniques they polish it 100000 times which is (part of) what makes them pro players. But that only is possible if fundamentally sound techniques is learned.

Hence the best way is always to look at best players. Players are the teachers. It’s but a challenge to figure out what is fundamental and due to copying.

 

[Chas Tennis]

When you hold the racket on the forehands, volleys, serve, overheads, and forehand returns of serve, you spread the hand and get a trigger finger type grip that we all have heard of.

When you hit a backhand however, it is recommended to hold the racket with a fist type grip. Not spreading the hand, but keeping the fingers together.
I would say that the backhand is already a conservative stroke in the sense that the shot has support from the stance and there's plenty of leverage already and therefore room for control. Having a spread hand does not ultimately help with stability, and having a grip that allows you to swing more freely (fist) to create speed makes sense.

What do you think?

1st - grip depends on the stroke technique
2nd - study the successful techniques of the better ATP one hand backhands as one reference point. Always consider that.

In the ATP, I see grips that tend to look like Semi-Western or Western forehand grips, only the back of hand is up for the backhand and down for the forehand. I don't agree with the Pistol Grip as used on the ATP 1HBH. When posters use Pistol Grip & Hammer Grip to communicate and also when they read them on the forum, each poster on the forum has personal definitions of these terms, Pistol Grip & Hammer Grip,

Have you heard of the demonstration/game where a sentence is sent around among, say, a series of 20 people. Then the original sentence is compared to the final sentence. (What is that game or demonstration called?) That is what undefined word descriptions of grips do on the forum posts by many posters. I found this research while searching for the parlor game. Still looking for the game's name.

Validity judgments of rumors heard multiple times: the shape of the truth effect

Research on the illusory truth effect has found that repeated presentation of uncertain statements increases validity judgments of those statements. Three experiments explored the shape of the repe...

www.tandfonline.com

Another method is to use pictures to communicate. There are probably 15 one hand backhands in the ATP top 100. Most use the Eastern Backhand Grip, I think. Few or none use the Pistol Grip, I think.

Google: Eastern Backhand Grip ATP pictures
Look only at ATP players with one hand backhands. Disregard all other information.

Google: one hand backhand pictures
Number with Pistol Grip?

Compare the number of 'Pistol Grips' vs 'Hammer Grips' in the ATP top 100 using your understanding of those terms.

In other words, in a very short time the OP's question can be answered for the ATP by looking at pictures. For all the other forum players with their techniques - well, that question can't be answered in a forum thread.

For grip issues, consider the angle of the racket to the forearm at impact as viewed from above or high camera views.

 

[Dragy]

@Chas Tennis I now wonder how you use to write long posts of text if you so mistrust the language? I personally refer civilization progress to communication and interpretation ability, and to written word in particular…

 

[Chas Tennis]

@Chas Tennis I now wonder how you use to write long posts of text if you so mistrust the language? I personally refer civilization progress to communication and interpretation ability, and to written word in particular…

I don't mistrust the language? It's the usage of undefined terms for tennis stroke descriptions.

...........go look at the video again........

Then the language is secondary to what's true.

 

[Chas Tennis]

@Chas Tennis I now wonder how you use to write long posts of text if you so mistrust the language? I personally refer civilization progress to communication and interpretation ability, and to written word in particular…

I've always remembered something in an Amherst College catalog.

It was stating the reason that essays were required when applying for admission.

'It is only when we attempt to write that we realize the quality of our thoughts.'

 

[ballmachineguy]

They use that technique because it works best at the level of their game, and it's their job to repeat the preparation a hundred thousand times to get it correct. A recreational player may not hit 100,000 backhands in five years, and definitely doesn't have access to coaches all the time who can provide immediate feedback when something isn't done correctly.

If you're a rec player who has a full time coach, will hit 100,000 backhands in a short period, and has the gift of being able to not only repeat the shot but repeat all of the footwork and everything else necessary to require such fine details, then go for it!

As an aside, not every ATP pro has this technique. Shapavalov's off hand never crosses the line of his back hip.

Once again, to hit a high level backhand is not rocket science. Also, there is no need to hit 1,000s of balls to do it correctly. You may have to hit 1,000s to be able to hit it where you want it to go almost every time, which is why pros hit so many balls. You seem to be promoting using bad technique just because someone is not a pro. Everyone should use the best technique possible. Holding onto the throat of the racquet a bit longer, for example, doesn’t take years to learn.
I don’t know if the “aside” was directed to me or the board in general, but it was coach Ryan that said how long the hand needed to stay on the racquet. The only rule that should be followed is hand on while rotating the upper body and hand comes off when you want to accelerate toward ball. Apparently Denis accelerates from the point where his hand has reached his hip.
You leave the tossing arm up on the serve until you accelerate toward ball, off-hand across body until you accelerate on forehand and the hand comes off of the throat on the backhand when you want to slow rotation and accelerate racquet. Doing any of these moves with the off-hand any earlier will make the stroke less effective. Who wants that?

 

[Chas Tennis]

........................................................................, but it was coach Ryan that said how long the hand needed to stay on the racquet. The only rule that should be followed is hand on while rotating the upper body and hand comes off when you want to accelerate toward ball. Apparently Denis accelerates from the point where his hand has reached his hip.
You leave .................................... off-hand across body until you accelerate on forehand and the hand comes off of the throat on the backhand when you want to slow rotation and accelerate racquet. Doing any of these moves with the off-hand any earlier will make the stroke less effective. ..................

Don't notice what Justine Henin and Djokovic are doing with their off arms. The one hand backhand ATP players do the same thing for the same purpose. Probably the two handers do the same for the same purpose...?

Don't notice how Justine Henin lowers the height of her racket head on her one hand backhand.

To single frame on Youtube, stop video and use the period & comma keys.

Don't notice how Djokovic lowers the height of his racket head on his two hand backhand.

To single frame on Youtube, stop video and use the period & comma keys.

 

[Injured Again]

Once again, to hit a high level backhand is not rocket science. Also, there is no need to hit 1,000s of balls to do it correctly. You may have to hit 1,000s to be able to hit it where you want it to go almost every time, which is why pros hit so many balls. You seem to be promoting using bad technique just because someone is not a pro. Everyone should use the best technique possible. Holding onto the throat of the racquet a bit longer, for example, doesn’t take years to learn.
I don’t know if the “aside” was directed to me or the board in general, but it was coach Ryan that said how long the hand needed to stay on the racquet. The only rule that should be followed is hand on while rotating the upper body and hand comes off when you want to accelerate toward ball. Apparently Denis accelerates from the point where his hand has reached his hip.
You leave the tossing arm up on the serve until you accelerate toward ball, off-hand across body until you accelerate on forehand and the hand comes off of the throat on the backhand when you want to slow rotation and accelerate racquet. Doing any of these moves with the off-hand any earlier will make the stroke less effective. Who wants that?

If you'll look at what I first replied to, it is the OP's reply to the infamous @Curious saying he spent seven years on trying to keep his off hand on the racquet a bit longer on his backhand and he still hasn't mastered it. If you look at **any** rec player's game and they spend seven years working on minutia like this, when there are other obvious things to work on, keeping the off hand on the racquet a little bit longer is inconsequential. What about spending seven years working on the footwork and ball recognition to be able to in position to make an effective stroke?

I'm also saying that if even if it is considered bad technique, if it works and is biomechanically not damaging to the body, then why not? Would you go and advise Shapo that his backhand isn't proper technique because his off hand comes off too early? Or that Medvedev should take time off to learn how to swing properly?

Sure, everyone should use the best technique possible, but for a rec player, hitting key milestones in the swing is close enough even if it isn't perfect. And in my opinion, this off hand thing is one of those things that doesn't need attention paid to it.

 

[coolvinny]

The off-hand definitely helps with the OHBH even if it’s not one of the most essential parts. My OHBH is pretty solid but I want it to be better than the FH of my current peers, and I’ve recently hooked up with a new coach who’s making me more aware of the off-hand’s role. Sure, it’s not the most important thing, but it’s something…and all the somethings add up…when rushed on a shot and trying to hit that solid BH past a player that’s approaching the net, the more technical things you can do right then the better the quality of your shot.

Most rec players should first focus on ensuring they aren’t “dropping and pausing” the racquet, which is super common and robs RHS. Personally I think it helped me ingrain that )not dropping and pausing) to first let go with my offhand too early (to get a flowing loop) but now I’m getting the off-hand more involved to strengthen the stroke.

 

[ballmachineguy]

If you'll look at what I first replied to, it is the OP's reply to the infamous @Curious saying he spent seven years on trying to keep his off hand on the racquet a bit longer on his backhand and he still hasn't mastered it. If you look at **any** rec player's game and they spend seven years working on minutia like this, when there are other obvious things to work on, keeping the off hand on the racquet a little bit longer is inconsequential. What about spending seven years working on the footwork and ball recognition to be able to in position to make an effective stroke?

I'm also saying that if even if it is considered bad technique, if it works and is biomechanically not damaging to the body, then why not? Would you go and advise Shapo that his backhand isn't proper technique because his off hand comes off too early? Or that Medvedev should take time off to learn how to swing properly?

Sure, everyone should use the best technique possible, but for a rec player, hitting key milestones in the swing is close enough even if it isn't perfect. And in my opinion, this off hand thing is one of those things that doesn't need attention paid to it.

Do you really think a 55 yr old can’t manage to keep his hand on the throat of the racquet a bit longer if he tries? All you have to do is do it. He can’t because it doesn’t work with his swing, which I am on record saying he performs all wrong. This “minutiae,” as you call it, is a tell that he is swinging incorrectly.
As for Shapovalov, I don’t think it comes off early. Coach Ryan said something about going to the belt buckle, which I think is way too far. (Assuming he meant the off-hand). I have already posted why and when the off hand should be on and off.
The non dominant hand is important on the backhand just as it is on the other strokes. It isn’t that hard to fix and, in some cases, not being able to use it correctly, could be a sign of bigger issues.