Quick! What Do I Say To This Player?

[Cindysphinx]

My ladies 6.5 combo team played last night. I did not attend. We lost Court One (6-1, 6-0 in 45-minutes), but won the other two courts.

There was a problem on Court One with one of my better 3.0 players. This player has a huge serve and big groundstrokes, but her consistency can be a problem. She apparently was having an off night, and the opponents were maddening lobbers/pushers. This led to her double-faulting multiple times per game and trying to hit harder and harder to compensate. To make matters worse, her opponents could see she was having trouble and steered the ball to her for her to miss, which made her even madder. Must have been a nightmare for her.

The trouble is that she took this out on her opponents. Specifically, she made nasty remarks to her partner about the opponents that denigrated their skills, and her partner could only hope that the opponents didn't hear these things. She began loudly arguing line calls. She began complaining how she doesn't like playing 3.0s because they just push the ball and she wants to play with people who hit with pace. She was very negative about everything, according to her partner. All this occurred between the non-stop unforced errors.

And then when she was serving down 0-5 in the second set, she began trying to hit her opponents with her serve (according to her partner). The opponents were standing about halfway between baseline and service line, and my player started firing so aggressively that she was nowhere close to hitting the service box but was close to hitting her opponents. She also seemed to be going for the head on many of her groundstrokes and overheads throughout the match.

Her partner from last night apologized profusely to the opponents for this behavior after the player had left. She has said she does not wish to play with this teammate again. The partner was acting as my substitute captain and so did a match report (we always do a re-cap via e-mail after our matches). The player at issue replied to the e-mail, but she didn't say anything about melting down or apologize to the team or her partner.

OK. What do I do, and how do I do it?

I've already written the opposing captain (a former teammate, fer cryin' out loud -- how embarrassing!) and apologized.

Should I call my player, and if so, what should I say?

Should I just shoot her an e-mail, and if so, what should it say?

This is just so out of character for this player. I've never seen her be rude. In fact, I played against her myself in 7.0 mixed, she lost, and she didn't do anything but be gracious. I also partnered with her once, and yes, she was making lots of mistakes. She seemed to take her mistakes in stride. If anything, I felt a bit annoyed that she had an "Oh, well, it's no big deal, it's just tennis!" kind of attitude rather than bearing down and trying harder. So to hear that she melted down like that . . .

Advice?

 

[Supernatural_Serve]

I wouldn't contact her or talk to her about it unless it was an ongoing pattern of behavior.

It could be something as simple as a bad day or PMS.

 

[norcal]

If she was gracious in the past she may be having troubles at home or work. Let it go unless it happens again.

 

[shintan17]

My ladies 6.5 combo team played last night. I did not attend. We lost Court One (6-1, 6-0 in 45-minutes), but won the other two courts.

There was a problem on Court One with one of my better 3.0 players. This player has a huge serve and big groundstrokes, but her consistency can be a problem. She apparently was having an off night, and the opponents were maddening lobbers/pushers. This led to her double-faulting multiple times per game and trying to hit harder and harder to compensate. To make matters worse, her opponents could see she was having trouble and steered the ball to her for her to miss, which made her even madder. Must have been a nightmare for her.

The trouble is that she took this out on her opponents. Specifically, she made nasty remarks to her partner about the opponents that denigrated their skills, and her partner could only hope that the opponents didn't hear these things. She began loudly arguing line calls. She began complaining how she doesn't like playing 3.0s because they just push the ball and she wants to play with people who hit with pace. She was very negative about everything, according to her partner. All this occurred between the non-stop unforced errors.

And then when she was serving down 0-5 in the second set, she began trying to hit her opponents with her serve (according to her partner). The opponents were standing about halfway between baseline and service line, and my player started firing so aggressively that she was nowhere close to hitting the service box but was close to hitting her opponents. She also seemed to be going for the head on many of her groundstrokes and overheads throughout the match.

Her partner from last night apologized profusely to the opponents for this behavior after the player had left. She has said she does not wish to play with this teammate again. The partner was acting as my substitute captain and so did a match report (we always do a re-cap via e-mail after our matches). The player at issue replied to the e-mail, but she didn't say anything about melting down or apologize to the team or her partner.

OK. What do I do, and how do I do it?

I've already written the opposing captain (a former teammate, fer cryin' out loud -- how embarrassing!) and apologized.

Should I call my player, and if so, what should I say?

Should I just shoot her an e-mail, and if so, what should it say?

This is just so out of character for this player. I've never seen her be rude. In fact, I played against her myself in 7.0 mixed, she lost, and she didn't do anything but be gracious. I also partnered with her once, and yes, she was making lots of mistakes. She seemed to take her mistakes in stride. If anything, I felt a bit annoyed that she had an "Oh, well, it's no big deal, it's just tennis!" kind of attitude rather than bearing down and trying harder. So to hear that she melted down like that . . .

Advice?

How old is the lady? It's one thing to get mad at yourself, but anothing trying to HURT your opponent. That's out of line. She obviously needs to take some anger management classes. I get impatient sometimes as well, but never thought of hurting the opponent. That's insane. She needs to understand not everyone gives back the ball the way she wants. Even some of the 4.0s are pushers. Everyone is just out there to maximize their abilities to win the match. Everyone plays different. Even at the ATP level, look at Santoro. I am sure he frustrates a lot of players.

 

[Jack the Hack]

Tough one... but here's my $0.02:

Has this player ever done this before?

There are many reasons why an adult can go off the deep end like this. If it's not their usual pattern of behavior, it could be any number of stressors like a horrible day a work, problems with a significant other or family members, or a physical issue (illness, or... if I dare say this... hormones).

I think it might be important to communicate with this player about their behavior for three reasons:

1.) You don't want your team to get a reputation for having bad sportsmanship.

2.) Your player lost emotional control, which caused a very poor performance (which obviously cost the team a match). If possible, it would be good to avoid such performance melt downs in the future (like in a playoff match).

3.) If there is something horrible going on for this person off the court, you want to be aware of it so you can help as a team mate and friend.

I think my approach would be to say: "Hey, I heard that you and so-and-so had a really bad match yesterday. What happened?" This might elicite at least some of the story. If not, I might push forward and say: "Well, I heard that you were having problems with your opponent's style of play and you kind of lost it emotionally. You usually don't do this, but some of your comments while playing were taken as disrespectful." Depending on the reactions to this, I think I would guide the conversation toward improving her performance or dealing with whatever issues are causing the underlying problem.

 

[Geezer Guy]

Maybe it was just her..... you know...

Me - I'd steer clear.

 

[luckyskulls]

I love how when a guy acts a total fool on the tennis court he's, "hot-headed." Or, "too-competitive" etc...

When a woman does the same, "...it must her time of the month."

Gah.

 

[Cruzer]

I love playing against people going through a melt down like that because I know I've got them beat.

As far as this player is concerned if this behavior was a one off occurrence I would just leave it alone. She seems to have some match toughness issues which hoepfully she will overcome.

 

[Geezer Guy]

I love how when a guy acts a total fool on the tennis court he's, "hot-headed." Or, "too-competitive" etc...

When a woman does the same, "...it must her time of the month."

Gah.

Totally agree! Some men are pigs.

 

[JavierLW]

My ladies 6.5 combo team played last night. I did not attend. We lost Court One (6-1, 6-0 in 45-minutes), but won the other two courts.

There was a problem on Court One with one of my better 3.0 players. This player has a huge serve and big groundstrokes, but her consistency can be a problem. She apparently was having an off night, and the opponents were maddening lobbers/pushers. This led to her double-faulting multiple times per game and trying to hit harder and harder to compensate. To make matters worse, her opponents could see she was having trouble and steered the ball to her for her to miss, which made her even madder. Must have been a nightmare for her.

The trouble is that she took this out on her opponents. Specifically, she made nasty remarks to her partner about the opponents that denigrated their skills, and her partner could only hope that the opponents didn't hear these things. She began loudly arguing line calls. She began complaining how she doesn't like playing 3.0s because they just push the ball and she wants to play with people who hit with pace. She was very negative about everything, according to her partner. All this occurred between the non-stop unforced errors.

And then when she was serving down 0-5 in the second set, she began trying to hit her opponents with her serve (according to her partner). The opponents were standing about halfway between baseline and service line, and my player started firing so aggressively that she was nowhere close to hitting the service box but was close to hitting her opponents. She also seemed to be going for the head on many of her groundstrokes and overheads throughout the match.

Her partner from last night apologized profusely to the opponents for this behavior after the player had left. She has said she does not wish to play with this teammate again. The partner was acting as my substitute captain and so did a match report (we always do a re-cap via e-mail after our matches). The player at issue replied to the e-mail, but she didn't say anything about melting down or apologize to the team or her partner.

OK. What do I do, and how do I do it?

I've already written the opposing captain (a former teammate, fer cryin' out loud -- how embarrassing!) and apologized.

Should I call my player, and if so, what should I say?

Should I just shoot her an e-mail, and if so, what should it say?

This is just so out of character for this player. I've never seen her be rude. In fact, I played against her myself in 7.0 mixed, she lost, and she didn't do anything but be gracious. I also partnered with her once, and yes, she was making lots of mistakes. She seemed to take her mistakes in stride. If anything, I felt a bit annoyed that she had an "Oh, well, it's no big deal, it's just tennis!" kind of attitude rather than bearing down and trying harder. So to hear that she melted down like that . . .

Advice?

If you know her pretty well and have the opportunity to talk to her about something else, it's okay to let her know that you dont particularly care for that sort of behavior. As long as you can do it in a way that doesnt consist of scolding her or embarressing her.

If not though, just let it go. Either she was just having a bad time, or you just dont know her very well. (and if you dont know her very well and she continues this behavior then you might not want to play her as often depending on how much it means to you. people are the way they are, you cant change attitutes)

Maybe she just had anti-pusher-itis. She probally doesnt complain about losing to you because you are a good player and she doesnt feel that it says anything about her game if she happens to lose.

Sometimes when people perceive that the opponents are weak or way worse than them (a mistake that people frequently make with pushers), it's easier to get frustrated then it is against someone who hitting out on the ball.

I have a friend myself who is a pusher. He played an opponent this weekend who I normally thought of as very mature and had a great attitude but against my friend he just went mental:

1) He won the first set 6-1, but lost 0-6 in the next and then 7-3 in the TB.

2) He launched a ball at my friends head accidently between one point where he had hit several overhead "winners" that my friend just pushed back until this guy hit one in the net.

3) After the match was over and they shook hands, my friend heard him mumble outloud about "I cant believe I lost to such a sucky player!!".

Either way though it's not a good excuse for having a bad attitude out there, and obviously melting down never helps you win a match. (nor is embarressing your partner) If anything her partner should talk to her, because she is the one who suffered the most from it. (the opponents won after all)

But like I said, there isnt much you can do about it because she's responsible for her own behavior once she gets out there.

 

[kevhen]

Since you weren't there (what captain doesn't go to their own meets???), you have done all you can in apologizing. You can ask her what happened and let her explain it in her own words.

I would not play her in the next couple of meets and then maybe just have her play singles later on.

If you do play her again right away, do tell her this kind of behavior will not be tolerated by any teammate. If it happens again, she is off the team.

Maybe she feels too much pressure to win and you seem very intent on winning. Let her know that good sportsmanship is better for the team than winning or losing.

 

[sureshs]

There is enough material in Cindy's collective posts for a nice Hollywood movie. Or an indie flick if the major studios don't pick it up. Throw in a murder by a hit-and-run racquet assault in a dark parking lot after a league match.

 

[rasajadad]

I am a man and in my experience there are two ways to talk to a woman about stuff like this. However, neither of them work.

 

[skiracer55]

One more reason why I do not...

...and will not ever play NTRP league tennis...

 

[Cindysphinx]

There is enough material in Cindy's collective posts for a nice Hollywood movie. Or an indie flick if the major studios don't pick it up. Throw in a murder by a hit-and-run racquet assault in a dark parking lot after a league match.

Honestly, I could see why someone might think I was making this stuff up completely!! And this is on a team without any crazy people where everyone is usually mature and nice.

Kevhen, I don't attend matches where I don't play. Ever. We have 17 matches over our 12-week season, plus I have my mixed team matches to play. Tennis matches/practice cut into family time enough without going to matches to watch. Not to mention that several of our venues don't have viewing areas so you couldn't see anything anyway.

Drama. Yuck. I really hate it. . . .

 

[JavierLW]

...and will not ever play NTRP league tennis...

And you dont think this happens outside of NTRP league tennis??? You're kidding yourself....

 

[Nellie]

I doubt she was hitting at the other team intentionally - it just happens sometimes when things go wild. Combo leagues can frustrating because better players can expose weaknesses.

Look - this player is a grown-up, and you are not her mother. You do not need to lecture her. Perhaps remind her that if the other team files a complaint, she can be DQ'ed and banned from playing. If she loses a lot, you don't have to play her. If you like having her around for the company, be careful about who you schedule her with. Perhaps pair her only with another high-struck person or with you, since you seem to match up well with her.

 

[sureshs]

Honestly, I could see why someone might think I was making this stuff up completely!! And this is on a team without any crazy people where everyone is usually mature and nice.

Kevhen, I don't attend matches where I don't play. Ever. We have 17 matches over our 12-week season, plus I have my mixed team matches to play. Tennis matches/practice cut into family time enough without going to matches to watch. Not to mention that several of our venues don't have viewing areas so you couldn't see anything anyway.

Drama. Yuck. I really hate it. . . .

I can be your agent. I am not far from Hollywood. Let us pursue this once the strike is over. But you must be willing to go on late night shows for the publicity.

 

[Cindysphinx]

I doubt she was hitting at the other team intentionally - it just happens sometimes when things go wild. Combo leagues can frustrating because better players can expose weaknesses.

Look - this player is a grown-up, and you are not her mother. You do not need to lecture her. Perhaps remind her that if the other team files a complaint, she can be DQ'ed and banned from playing. If she loses a lot, you don't have to play her. If you like having her around for the company, be careful about who you schedule her with. Perhaps pair her only with another high-struck person or with you, since you seem to match up well with her.

You know, maybe this would work. I could tell her what I did (sent note to opposing captain) to try to smooth things over so we don't draw a grievance. That would be a subtle way of saying, "I know what happened, so watch it."

I'm not concerned about the losing. She wins plenty. I'm concerned about our team reputation and my personal reputation. I guess I'm also concerned about her reputation, because I can't have a situation where no one will play with someone.

Sheez, I can't play with her. She only plays ad court, and I only play ad court . . .

 

[skiracer55]

Yeah, it does, but not to the extent that you see it in NTRP...

And you dont think this happens outside of NTRP league tennis??? You're kidding yourself....

...I play exclusively Age group (Men's 45, Men's 50, Men's Open) tournaments, and it rarely, if ever, gets to this point. Let's just drop back and talk about team tennis, generally, for a minute. The kind of stuff that the woman on Cindy's team pulled would get you kicked off any respectable high school or college team in about two seconds flat. I know that for a fact, because I've seen it happen. Hey, you pay your money and you do what works for you. If I read through this forum, I see a lot of discussions of sandbagging, putting ringers on teams, unsportsmanlike stuff, and so forth.

Hey, you pay your money, and you do what works for you. The NTRP says "The USTA League is the country's largest recreational tennis league, helping more than 295,000 players nationwide get on the court and have a good time", only it doesn't sound to me like a whole lot of people are having fun on the court in the USTA leagues these days...but your mileage may vary...

 

[cak]

Our ladies combo team has two women who's husbands are presently suffering from untreatable cancer, and yet another woman who's husband's has equally devastating problems for her and her family. That's not counting the women going through menopause. Some women don't know when to bow out, or find showing up is easier than cancelling on days they mentally shouldn't be playing. I went against my better judgement and allowed my captain to put me in a lineup recently when I shouldn't have been. Yes, we won. But I am not proud of my actions in that game. Having subs standing by allows you to sub out people who show up, but can tell they will not be able to get their heads into the game.

 

[OrangeOne]

Sheez, I can't play with her. She only plays ad court, and I only play ad court . . .

C'mon, Cindy - you've been playing long enough now to reach that "either side" versatility

As for the woman - I *seriously* doubt it was a tennis-related issue that was the root cause, that said I'm disappointed that many of my fellow male posters seemed to say PMS.

Sheesh... any of a 1000 life-issues can impact negatively on mood / state of mind. I've broken a few racquets as a mature adult, and in almost every case, something *other* than tennis was stuffing me around at the time. Have a chat to her, and go the "elicit" that you / others highlighted above. See what comes out, and remember that it'll probably seem less bad to her than her partner. Find some way of saying that it was a little sub-par (if she doesn't already know this).

Good luck

 

[Federer's pet goat Leanne]

Cindy, it's me.. Leanne..
Last night.. I'm sorry about last night... I couldn't control.... my mind went blank and I couldn't get a hold of it. I'm sorry.

Here's what happened. I knew the match wasn't going to be easy, but I was confident. I really couldn't get any rhythm on my groundstrokes. I had been working all weekend on perfecting my forehand (worked on the double bend) and my serves which needed some tweaking because I was having some difficulty with the back bend and the archer's bow. Before the match, I was sure that my strokes, (now improved), will be able to take down the competition (My pro told me this).

So as the match started, I won the toss, and elected to serve. I hit two unreturnable serves out wide and quicky got up to 30-love. We quickly went up 1-0 after some forced errors caused by my new and improved forehand. The other team couldn't even do anything about the sheer pace of my shots, it felt great!

Then... it happened. Beth, (my doubles partner, in case other people are reading this), did not know how to return a single ball on the deuce court. Since I was the stronger player, I chose to play the ad court to close out the games just in case the games got tight. And so... the story continues. She couldn't hit one return over the net. They kept serving to her forehand and she couldn't do a single thing. She tried blocking the serves, but the puff serves were so slow that her returns just dribble forward in front of her by about a foot. 15-0, then I hit a return winner up the middle of the court. 15-all, then followed by 30-15 (Beth tried to block the serve again). 30-all after I crushed an overhead over the fence. 40-30... (3 times in a row, she couldn't get it over the net. I was getting frustrated. As I went back to return the next serve, Beth whispered to me, "These girls aren't any good, just get the ball over the net and they will probably mess up."

Now, I'm thinking to myself, "What are you talking about, you can't even return their powderpuff girl serve"
As I was distracted by this "nonsense," pusher girl#1 (who was serving) on the other team, mishit a serve and it went in, but it took a weird bounce because of all the mixed up spins on the ball. Game count: 1-all.

Now it was Beth's turn to serve. I never played with her before last night, but
I heard her serving was less than perfect. And less than perfect it was, as she hit 3 double faults, one ace by accident (the ball was less than 5mph and the returner was at the baseline). We're down 15-40, and I was trying to calm myself down, you know.. try to stay in the match. At 15-40, Beth decides to hit her serve underhanded (Only God knows why) and the pusher hit a drop shot to our deuce court and Slow-Turtle Beth, could not reach it with her short arms.

1-2, now it was pusher girl#2's serving to us. The game went to 2 deuces because she double faulted some, but Beth couldn't return well enough for us to get the advantage twice.

1-3, it's my turn to finally show'em how to play tennis. I blast my serve up the T and the returner hit a sky high weak reply back on our side. As I went up to finish the point with a smash winner, here comes Beth with her, "I got it! I got it!" so I let her hit the ball.... Big mistake. I was stunned when she tried to hit a swinging volley with her "Ferrer Forehand." The ball wound up on Court 2 and it had hit Vanessa on her calf. (Email Vanessa and ask her about it, I haven't emailed her yet because I'm too embarrassed by this whole affair).

At this point, I just shook it off and said to Beth, "No problem, try again next time" I calmly walk back to the baseline on the ad side and served a kick serve out wide and forced an error off the lefty pusher. (Oh yes, I forgot to mention that pusher girl#2 was a lefty). 15-15. Everything was back on track... Suddenly, Beth decided to stand closer to the middle of the court so she can poach off the returns more easily. I saw her hit some volleys in the warm up, but her volleys were nonexistent during the match. I hope she gets some tapes of Pat Rafter matches before heading out onto the courts again. Sheesh. We quicky lost the game because of Beth's inability to volley OVER the net.

Wow, I'm getting heated as I'm writing this. 1-4, this set is over with the double break. As the match went on, I was just shocked that Beth was not playing at the 3.0 level, but she was an inconsistent 2.5. (We all know that 2.5 players are already inconsistent, but... even more so with Burly Beth).
Not to be gossipy, but Burly Beth weighs 190lbs and she is only 5'4''

(Beth, if you are reading this, honey... you need to shed some pounds).

And the rest of the match, we all know what happened. I started hitting harder and harder, but Beth just made me frustrated even more with her cheering. "Good try" "Nice try, Leanne, hit up more next time" "Leanne, remember, get under the ball, and 30 degrees, remember?" "Leanne, pull. Don't push the ball, try to pull the racquet handle and wrap it around your body" My anger exploded. Near the end of the second set, 0-5, I was trying to hit serves and overheads at Beth, but she ducked on some of them and it got close to the pushers on the other team. I guess that Beth thought I was trying to hit them? It's amazing that I missed Burly Beth when she is so HUGE.

Anyways, we lost 1-6, 0-6. It was the worst match I had ever played and the worst partner that I've ever paired up with. Please do not pair me up with Beth ever again. I have had enough of her.

So.. I'm sorry if I went a little overboard, but now that you know my side of the story, I hope that I can still play for your team. You are a great captain, Cindy, and it makes me proud to be able to play under you. Thanks again.

P.S. You make great threads on this forum, I enjoy them very much. Keep at it! Go...... Penn Pals!!! (That's our team name for those of you know doesn't know).

 

[kevhen]

Lots of drama as always in 3.0-3.5 women's league play.

But if you are going to be captain, then play in most of the meets or show up and watch. Maybe you are too busy with other leagues if you don't have time for this one. If you are captain you have responsibility to the team to make sure all goes well.

 

[Cindysphinx]

OK, I decided to stop being such a lily-livered *weenie* and I picked up the flippin' phone and called her.

It went OK. I started saying I was calling about her e-mail of this morning to me describing the match. She said it was so frustrating and she was so disgusted with herself and went on a bit about how badly she played.

I said I wanted to see what we could do to find more appropriate partners or opponents that will bring out her best play. She said the partner wasn't the problem, it was these stupid 2.5 players who call themselves 3.0 and then show up to play Court One in 6.5 combo. They just stick their rackets out and the ball kind of bloops back way up in the air.

I said yeah, it really messes up your timing and I have the same problem. I mean, you take all these lessons and work on your technique so you can really spank those crummy shots, and then you keep missing because the timing is so difficult when you get no pace. I told her I had been told that the point of improving your technique is so your technique will give you consistency, not necessarily power. She said she hates matches like that and it wasn't even worth her time to drive out to play people like that.

Then I said something like I think the opponents were a little unhappy with how it all went. She started listening and asking what they said. I said they didn't have much fun and were concerned that she was hitting at them on purpose. She said she certainly takes the ball hard at the net person, but that's fair.

I said they were worried even when she was serving. She said that she was so disgusted with her serve that she told her partner she was just going to crack it as hard as she could without regard to whether it went in, because nothing else was working. She said she wasn't trying to hit them with her serve.

I said I had wanted to check in just in case they file a complaint or something. She said if they do, she will file a complaint against them for cheating on line calls so blatantly. Apparently, they called a ball out, and she yelled "Come on!" Then they said, "Well, your partner has been foot faulting, but we didn't say anything." So then we had a long discussion about that issue.

So. I guess we're cool and I didn't have to lecture her, but she now knows her opponents had a problem with her behavior. I have someone who likes to play people who play the way she likes them to play and gets angry when her opponents are beneath her. I commiserated with her on this and said that if we want to move up, we have to use our superior knowledge of doubles and superior technique to avoid letting opponents like this win a single game.

For her remaining matches, she is playing against the top teams in the division, so she won't be meeting any pushers, I'm guessing. I think in the future I'll have to make absolutely sure I don't put her up against any bottom-feeder teams (last night's match was against such a team).

 

[kevhen]

Why don't you play with her next meet? You can play duece side since you need to work on that if you want to get to 3.5.

 

[CAM178]

And THAT, folks, is why it's best to pick up the phone and call someone. Bad that she had to read this on the net, instead of from the mouth. Good luck, ladies, and I hope you get everything worked out.

 

[Geezer Guy]

... The NTRP says "The USTA League is the country's largest recreational tennis league, helping more than 295,000 players nationwide get on the court and have a good time", only it doesn't sound to me like a whole lot of people are having fun on the court in the USTA leagues these days...but your mileage may vary...

If most people didn't enjoy themselves they wouldn't keep playing year after year after year. Sure there are a few bad experiences - and people are more apt to complain about a bad experience than they are to rave about a good experience. "I got beat by a sand-bagger" is a common lament and can be spun into a nice little tale to tell over beers. The vast majority of the matches are played fairly, though, and most people take that over the alternative. So, take the complaints with a grain of salt. It's not for everyone, but it works for a lot of people.

I've played a fair amount of age-related tournaments, and the problem there is you never know what you'll get. You get some pathetically easy matches and then you get blown away in others. At least with NTRP leagues or tournaments everyone is in the same general range, and you're more likely to get some good matches.

 

[raiden031]

And THAT, folks, is why it's best to pick up the phone and call someone. Bad that she had to read this on the net, instead of from the mouth. Good luck, ladies, and I hope you get everything worked out.

That post wasn't really her. That sure was alot of typing for a fake story.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Lots of drama as always in 3.0-3.5 women's league play.

But if you are going to be captain, then play in most of the meets or show up and watch. Maybe you are too busy with other leagues if you don't have time for this one. If you are captain you have responsibility to the team to make sure all goes well.

Sorry, no. I do understand your point, but I just don't agree there, Kevhen.

I have a co-captain, and if neither of us is playing I designate substitute captains. They understand exactly how things work. They have my authority to do whatever needs to be done for unexpected things (defaults). They bring the rules with them. I keep them advised on edicts from the league they may need to know. These women are smart professionals who can be trusted with the job of handling a team match.

They captain the match in my stead. So far, every one has done a fine job.

You know, the captain often cannot do much about what is going on with the other courts. In the described situation, the only difference my presence would have made is I could have apologized to these two women personally.

 

[raiden031]

cindy,

She needs to get over herself. She got her butt kicked out there and she is calling her opponents 2.5s??? If they are 2.5s, then she must be a 2.0!! I see her point with the bad line call to get them back for footfaulting, but still the fact that she thinks its a waste of time to play people because they are dinkers is nonsense. She will never be above them until she can beat them, even if she can serve 100 mph or whatever she can do.

 

[CAM178]

That post wasn't really her. That sure was alot of typing for a fake story.

My apologies, then. But it is still a valuable lesson to talk to someone directly, if it had been her. This is why I dislike e-mail, as tones are difficult to interpret, and it's very impersonal.

 

[JavierLW]

...I play exclusively Age group (Men's 45, Men's 50, Men's Open) tournaments, and it rarely, if ever, gets to this point. Let's just drop back and talk about team tennis, generally, for a minute. The kind of stuff that the woman on Cindy's team pulled would get you kicked off any respectable high school or college team in about two seconds flat. I know that for a fact, because I've seen it happen. Hey, you pay your money and you do what works for you. If I read through this forum, I see a lot of discussions of sandbagging, putting ringers on teams, unsportsmanlike stuff, and so forth.

Hey, you pay your money, and you do what works for you. The NTRP says "The USTA League is the country's largest recreational tennis league, helping more than 295,000 players nationwide get on the court and have a good time", only it doesn't sound to me like a whole lot of people are having fun on the court in the USTA leagues these days...but your mileage may vary...

Ive played high school tennis, and I play against high school players sometimes and they can act exactly like this person (and it's more likely because they are.......in high school!!!).

(maybe they dont have ringers but thats because they dont play in a skill level based system, although Ive seen a few tournaments where high school players were sneaked onto an otherwise adult 3.5 tournament)

Any adult league you play in has the potential to have this sort of behavior, it has nothing to do with the USTA. Unless your particular adult recreation league (we all are not able to play high school and college tennis you know....) has some sort of intensive psycological exam to get in to make sure you are not some sort of ******** hothead, you're going to run into this.

The fact that you havent yet is just a coincedence. (or maybe you are still in high school or college)

Use some logic. There are may like 5 or 6 people on here that may say they are not having a good time. So out of the other 294,994 people, how many personally told you that they had a bad time? (and if they did, why do you think they are still signing up year after year????)

 

[Cindysphinx]

cindy,

She needs to get over herself. She got her butt kicked out there and she is calling her opponents 2.5s??? If they are 2.5s, then she must be a 2.0!! I see her point with the bad line call to get them back for footfaulting, but still the fact that she thinks its a waste of time to play people because they are dinkers is nonsense. She will never be above them until she can beat them, even if she can serve 100 mph or whatever she can do.

Well, yeah. I'm with you, Raiden.

Me, I have every intention of learning to destroy dinkers. That's the plan, anyway.

 

[Cindysphinx]

I must have a sadistic streak. It wouldn't take the fun out of it for me if my Big Banger opponent melted down and I won 6-1, 6-0.

It would be the highlight of my whole season.

 

[Federer's pet goat Leanne]

I guess it wasn't that funny since Cindy didn't even respond to my post.
I tried to get it in as much details as possible.. not enough humor.
Or it could be that I'm still a "New User" and my reputation has not built up enough yet. I tried, I did. It bombed. :\

 

[Cindysphinx]

I guess it wasn't that funny since Cindy didn't even respond to my post.
I tried to get it in as much details as possible.. not enough humor.
Or it could be that I'm still a "New User" and my reputation has not built up enough yet. I tried, I did. It bombed. :\

Hey, I was on the phone while you were typing!!

Look, you've got a solid start on a screenplay there. We'll work in the bit about the bench-clearing brawl and a ghastly murder in the parking lot, and we'll be on our way to Hollywood, man!

 

[Federer's pet goat Leanne]

Yea, I think it was too long. The details made it so long. I just need to find the right balance.

As for Hollywood, I can't submit my stuff in or they would ban me from the Writers' Guild.

 

[JavierLW]

wow, nice try.

 

[JavierLW]

Sorry, no. I do understand your point, but I just don't agree there, Kevhen.

I have a co-captain, and if neither of us is playing I designate substitute captains. They understand exactly how things work. They have my authority to do whatever needs to be done for unexpected things (defaults). They bring the rules with them. I keep them advised on edicts from the league they may need to know. These women are smart professionals who can be trusted with the job of handling a team match.

They captain the match in my stead. So far, every one has done a fine job.

You know, the captain often cannot do much about what is going on with the other courts. In the described situation, the only difference my presence would have made is I could have apologized to these two women personally.

One point is (and why I go to every match even if I am not playing), is that you are responsible for making the lineups (hopefully), and if you are not there to actually see what is happening, you may not be making the most informed decision possible in the future. People sometimes react diffrently in a real match situation then in practice or in your club leagues.

But like you said you cant see the courts anyway sometimes. Although you could still talk to someone right after the match and they may give you a better story then if they tell you later. (that's minimal though probally)

As far as the pusher excuse, that is a lame excuse that's heard often in 3.0 and 3.5 tennis. (I leave out the higher levels because at 4.0 is finally when "pushing" ceases to be a successful strategy for the most part)

It's really silly at 3.0 because pushing is a far more successful strategy then what many 3.0 players employ even if it doesnt happen to look anything like what you are doing in your lesson.

From what Ive seen mostly the problem with countering it is either people are not getting to the net to volley those shots, or they have some sort of a swinging volley, rather than the traditional volley (where you punch the ball and use your legs rather than swinging your arm). And sometimes pushers can push the ball really low so it doesnt clear the net by much which makes "putting it away" difficult.

Like I said, I know one guy (he's like 5'1" tall btw), that has even been beating weak 4.0 players by pretty much the same strategy, albeit he has a really nice lob and a passing shot to go with it (nice in that the ball does something nice, not nice in that it looks strange the way he's pulling it off, he has a two handed forehand for one....).

I would never bet against this guy against any 3.5 player. It's proof that attitude really accounts for most of the game, as well as effort. (where apparently your player who blew up is seriously lacking in both departments)

 

[OrangeOne]

I must have a sadistic streak. It wouldn't take the fun out of it for me if my Big Banger opponent melted down and I won 6-1, 6-0.

It would be the highlight of my whole season.

Me, I have the same streak . I play in an all-age singles comp, ages probably range in the top 3 divisions from 15 to 50. There's a couple of kids who are purely baseline-bashers, and whilst I can thump with the best of them (and love doing so in practice & training sessions), I also have a good slice game and touch game.

It's MUCH fun to realise that the easiest way to beat these kids is to slice and dink them off the court, as opposed to grind it out with them, feeding them exactly what they want, exactly what they're used to! If I were playing your friend, and I realised she couldn't hit zero-pace balls, I'd be giving her 8 out of 10 balls with zero-pace (and the other two would be quick as a shocking change-up). And yes - that's me, 4.5-5.0, 6 foot 2.5, male, etc etc. In hitting or fun matches, I'll go out and enjoy myself. In comp / tournaments, I'll do what it takes to ethically win. I mean, I'm not going to hit AT the lady in mixed or whatever, but I'll certainly only play to someone's non-existent backhand, only lob a person who doesn't move well, etc etc.

Tennis is played on a court, but in the mind...

 

[D. Net Tricks]

cindysphinx-
First of all, I seriously wanna echo Federerspetgoat's comments about loving your posts. I really do enjoy stalking you here on TT. Wait that sounds scary, perhaps I should explain. Reading your posts makes me feel like a I have a doppelganger living in a parallel universe. I thought it was just the women that I play with up here in PNW USTA land, but almost every time you describe a USTA team scenario, it sounds eerily familiar. Yikes!

As to your teamie with anti-pusheritis. At some point, she's got to remember that there are women who have made a career out of maintaining a solid 3.5 rating by cultivating a no-pace, lob heavy, never get in closer than mid-court game. The only way she's gonna ever get out of 3.0 land is if she remembers that she's gotta hold on to her swing pattern with those big soft ice cream cone balls and continue to take the ball out in front. I think you handled her well, I just hope at some point she takes a look at the successful "pushers" who are still hanging out in 3.5 land and figures out that she's gonna have to learn how to hold it together against 'em.

Anyway. Glad you're here.
D.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Exactly, Javier.

When I play one of these pusher/dinker/blooper types, I dust off the serve and volley. I have my partner stand farther back (service line) to help with any lobs, and I come in on every single ball. This is the only way to take away their timing space so they can't reach your ball or they mis-hit due to their poor technique. It works just fine.

I have another player who is a huge ball crusher. She and I play, and sometimes we wind up playing dinkers/pushers. I handle it by coming to net.

She handles it by standing in one spot at the baseline and knocking the fuzz off the ball. By the end, her dinker opponents are both at the baseline wondering when this beating will end. She doesn't disparage her opponents. She says, "Here's a challenge. Let's see if we can double-bagel them and go home and get some sleep."

I like that attitude!

 

[Cindysphinx]

cindysphinx-
First of all, I seriously wanna echo Federerspetgoat's comments about loving your posts. I really do enjoy stalking you here on TT. Wait that sounds scary, perhaps I should explain. Reading your posts makes me feel like a I have a doppelganger living in a parallel universe. I thought it was just the women that I play with up here in PNW USTA land, but almost every time you describe a USTA team scenario, it sounds eerily familiar. Yikes!

As to your teamie with anti-pusheritis. At some point, she's got to remember that there are women who have made a career out of maintaining a solid 3.5 rating by cultivating a no-pace, lob heavy, never get in closer than mid-court game. The only way she's gonna ever get out of 3.0 land is if she remembers that she's gotta hold on to her swing pattern with those big soft ice cream cone balls and continue to take the ball out in front. I think you handled her well, I just hope at some point she takes a look at the successful "pushers" who are still hanging out in 3.5 land and figures out that she's gonna have to learn how to hold it together against 'em.

Anyway. Glad you're here.
D.

Hey, thank you! That was sweet. Big smooches to you and Federer'sPetGoat!

What can I say? I love tennis, and I like it here quite a lot. It was so lonely being a tennis nut without a place to talk about All Things Tennis, so I'm glad I found out TW has something more to offer other than butt-slimming skirts. You guys totally rock!

OK, we take on the No. 1 team in our division in a week or so.

Let's hope there is no drama, shall we?

 

[skiracer55]

Wow...

...unbelievable. I am officially done posting on TW forums...

 

[OrangeOne]

...unbelievable. I am officially done posting on TW forums...

What...because you disagreed with someone and they went on to make silly assumptions and called you names?

Toughen up princess .

Sticks and stones may break my bones....but they'd have to be big ones because I'm pretty strong

 

[skiracer55]

Outstanding...

What...because you disagreed with someone and they went on to make silly assumptions and called you names?

Toughen up princess .

Sticks and stones may break my bones....but they'd have to be big ones because I'm pretty strong

...you win, on two accounts:

- You're absolutely right, that was not my last post. Here it is:

- You wanna play tennis, play tennis. You wanna sing along to "American Idol", go right ahead...but just consider this: Maybe it's not tennis...

 

[KFwinds]

I still think it was PMS...

 

[r2473]

...and will not ever play NTRP league tennis...

Amen!!!!!!!

 

[_mats_]

yeah, there is a lot of material in these league posts, too much drama.. where is all this happening I think they take this WAY too seriously...