Racket drop on edge or with open face

BetaServe

Professional
@Curious but here's another secret, the reason your current racquet drop doesn't look pretty is not because of the open racquet drop, it's because you're not doing it "properly". If you do it the way Sampras and Federer do, I promise it'd look gorgeous.
 

BetaServe

Professional
Again, I'm not saying on-edge racquet drop is trash.
1) I think open racquet drop is slightly more optimal
2) All I'm trying to prove is open racquet drop is NOT a problem, so stop bashing it.

Do you agree they have the best drop?
Well they don't have the best open racquet drop. Sampras does :)
 

Happi

Semi-Pro
You’re missing something. We’re not just throwing the racket at the ball. We’re throwing and rotating at the same time to increase the speed of the racket face into the ball.
I think a natural upward pitching motion is closer to a serve motion, than a boy throwing cards at objects.

IMO the on edge racquet drop looks better than the open, I also think PP looks better than PF stance. But imo it is just a personel preference.
 

pencilcheck

Professional
I think you should shave, that would make you look 20 years younger :D

I think the pronation stuff is overrrated, a lot of times it just makes the wrist hurt so much when forced. And at the high speed there has to be less logical movement or else the timing will not be right as well esp when all those servers can aim really well.

That's just my opinion about serves
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
I think you should shave, that would make you look 20 years younger :D

I think the pronation stuff is overrrated, a lot of times it just makes the wrist hurt so much when forced. And at the high speed there has to be less logical movement or else the timing will not be right as well esp when all those servers can aim really well.

That's just my opinion about serves
Good points. Both about shaving and forced pronation.
 
It looks to me like you are using a grip that is a little toward eastern forehand from continental, and that is the cause of your fugly racquet drop. Most top pro servers have a grip slightly toward the backhand grip from continental.
This. Hard to get anywhere with the wrong grip. That causes bigger issues than racquet drop.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
This. Hard to get anywhere with the wrong grip. That causes bigger issues than racquet drop.
OP is in denial about his serve grip. He thinks it is continental.

The easiest way to find the continental grip for serving is to put your wrist in a neutral relaxed position and then reach forward straight ahead with your racquet as at the start of a serve motion. If the racquet edge is vertical, as in the OP’s serve video, then it isn’t continental. He is 20-30 degrees shy of continental.

Aside from the beginner grip, OP’s serve motion actually looks pretty good.
 
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travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Trav, shall we put an end to this nonsense??
Tell me the reference points for the conti grip you’re talking about? You seem very confident about your eyesight!
I’m talking about the very topic of this thread. Trying to define continental grip by heel pad or knuckle location is too vague (only limits it to a 45-deg range).

It is much easier to look at what the racquet face does to know if your grip is correct. All of the these reference points tell me that your grip is “Aussie” rather than full continental. When you reach forward with both hands at the start of your serve, the racquetface is vertical. In general, the racquetface for most high-level servers (including Sampras) will be tilted about 30 degrees from vertical at that point. This is because they are using a significantly different grip (about 20-30 degrees rotated from yours).

The second obvious cue that your grip isnt far enough around is the very topic of this thread. Your racquet doesn’t pronate very much just before contact because your grip is weak. Fix your grip, and you will naturally have to pronate just like Pete.
 
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Curious

Legend
I’m talking about the very topic of this thread. Trying to define continental grip by heel pad or knuckle location is too vague.

It is much easier to look at what the racquet face does to know if your grip is correct. All of the these reference points tell me that your grip is “Aussie” rather than full continental. When you reach forward with both hands at the start of your serve, the racquetface is vertical. In general, the racquetface for most high-level servers (including Sampras) will be tilted about 30 degrees from vertical at that point. This is because they are using a different grip (about 20-30 degrees rotated from yours).

The second obvious cue that your grip is the very topic of this thread. Your racquet doesn’t pronate very much just before contact because your grip is weak. Fix your grip, and you will naturally have to probate just like Pete.
I can’t believe you’re so stubbornly ignorant about this. Does Raonic have a western backhand serve grip then? How is that angle reliable?? Do you take the wrist flexion and forearm rotation at the ready position into account at all? I know what a conti grip is, I use different variations of it deliberately at times not randomly. So please stop this nonsense!
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
I can’t believe you’re so stubbornly ignorant about this. Does Raonic have a western backhand serve grip then? How is that angle reliable?? Do you take the wrist flexion and forearm rotation at the ready position into account at all? I know what a conti grip is, I use different variations of it deliberately at times not randomly. So please stop this nonsense!
Most of the best servers use a grip that is between continental and bh grip. Raonic is almost full bh grip. Same with Goran. Pete is closer to continental, but slightly on the backhand side (stronger side) of continental. Yours is different. Your grip is on the weaker side of continental. Big difference.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
I can’t believe you’re so stubbornly ignorant about this. Does Raonic have a western backhand serve grip then? How is that angle reliable?? Do you take the wrist flexion and forearm rotation at the ready position into account at all? I know what a conti grip is, I use different variations of it deliberately at times not randomly. So please stop this nonsense!
Perhaps I will try to film a couple of my own serves using 3 different grips: using your grip, then with full conti, and then with bh, to demonstrate how the degree of pronation is linked to the grip.
 

Curious

Legend
Is your 2nd serve prettier?
You still don’t get it. I already told you that I used the same grip on all serves that you see in the first video but still managed to drop the racket on edge by changing the swing only ie trying to hit the ball with the edge of the frame. But you keep disregarding what I say as you’re bloody stuck with your claim about my grip. Phew!!
 

Raul_SJ

Legend
You still don’t get it. I already told you that I used the same grip on all serves that you see in the first video but still managed to drop the racket on edge by changing the swing only ie trying to hit the ball with the edge of the frame. But you keep disregarding what I say as you’re bloody stuck with your claim about my grip. Phew!!
Did not read entire thread...
Bottom line is that your drop issue is completely fixed now by thinking of contacting with edge?
:unsure:
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
You still don’t get it. I already told you that I used the same grip on all serves that you see in the first video but still managed to drop the racket on edge by changing the swing only ie trying to hit the ball with the edge of the frame. But you keep disregarding what I say as you’re bloody stuck with your claim about my grip. Phew!!
I am just trying help. I maintain that your grip is not at all the same grip as Sampras uses. He hits most of his serves, both first and second, with what most would call “strong continental”. Your grip as shown in OP, in contrast, is “weak continental.” You are complaining about your ugly racquet drop, yet you don’t want to hear the answer. Shift your grip for your first serve, and your racquet will naturally follow a different path to the ball, and your serve will look less like a 3.5 serve and more like a pro.
 

BetaServe

Professional
Curious, I think I'm starting to agree with @travlerajm about your grip. Can you make a video of you serving 1st serve with open racquet face using a true continental grip or slightly towards backhand grip and see what happens?
 

Curious

Legend
Are you guys crazy??
How many times do I need to say it?
In the first video of this thread, when I started dropping the racket on edge I was still using the same bloody grip. I didn’t change it. The racket dropping with open face happens no matter which grip I use, UNLESS I CHANGE THE WAY I SWING!
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Are you guys crazy??
How many times do I need to say it?
In the first video of this thread, when I started dropping the racket on edge I was still using the same bloody grip. I didn’t change it. The racket dropping with open face happens no matter which grip I use, UNLESS I CHANGE THE WAY I SWING!
I get it that you are using the same bloody grip. If you are tired of people telling you to change your grip, then stop showing us video of you using the same bloody grip. It’s the first thing I noticed when I watched the video is that your grip is weak - it’s the number one giveaway of a 3.5 level serve, and I mean that in a constructive way because I think you can correct it.
 

Curious

Legend
I get it that you are using the same bloody grip. If you are tired of people telling you to change your grip, then stop showing us video of you using the same bloody grip. It’s the first thing I noticed when I watched the video is that your grip is weak - it’s the number one giveaway of a 3.5 level serve, and I mean that in a constructive way because I think you can correct it.
I don’t agree with the grip thing either but ok keep it separate from this thread then. At least accept that the open drop is not related to my grip and we will move on. Or keep talking about the grip, it’s up to you.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
I don’t agree with the grip thing either but ok keep it separate from this thread then. At least accept that the open drop is not related to my grip and we will move on. Or keep talking about the grip, it’s up to you.
I will agree to disagree. :)
 

Raul_SJ

Legend
Yep. Show me a serve with a bh grip and let’s see what that does to the racquet drop.
But he says the drop issue is fixed when he focuses on contacting with edge. And that he is always using the same grip (whatever grip that might be)... He is happy with the drop. You do not agree that drop looks okay?
 

Curious

Legend
But he says the drop issue is fixed when he focuses on contacting with edge. And that he is always using the same grip (whatever grip that might be)...
Thank you. I’ve told him the same thing many times but I think he has a childhood trauma with grips! He can’t get over it.:p
 

Raul_SJ

Legend
Thank you. I’ve told him the same thing many times but I think he has a childhood trauma with grips! He can’t get over it.:p
But in previous post he said your drop looks fine...
Now he wants to check your drop with different grip.
:unsure:
 

Happi

Semi-Pro
I'm using the same grip on all of those serves in the video, which is continental by description ie both the first knuckle and the heel pad on bevel two.
Try to put your heel pad on bevel number 1, this will get you in a true continental grip (I was told this by a great serve coach). This might help you and put an end to the grip discussion. However it takes a little time to get use to.

Again I would not worry about the aesthetic on the backdrop, as I believe that an open face backdrop is just fine and perhaps can give you even more power.

Hope this helps, cheers T
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
Raonic serve grip looks maybe a tad backhandish, definitely not full BH. All the wrist **** stuff, roughly until the drop - then all typical top-notch serve.
 

Happi

Semi-Pro
Are there any other geniuses here who think this serve grip is not continental?! I want to know.



YES, rotate your heel pad to bevel number 1 and keep your index knuckle where it is.


@Curious grips are often more complicated than you first would think, in one of Jeff Salzenstein paid video courses about the serve, he spends 8 videos only on the serve grip.

I think people are really trying to help you, so just try it out, perhaps it will work for you.

Cheers, H
 
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