Racket stiffness Vs. String stiffness for Tennis Elbow

[dimadima]

Hi!

It is a bit confusing regarding racket/string stiffness in terms of preventing tennis elbow.

Although I understand that tennis elbow is 90% about your technique and body physical condition I should also seriously take into account racket/string stiffness.

Question: let's say I have a 66RA and 62RA racquet. If I string them with same string and same tension the second racket will be more easy on my arm. But how will my arm feel if I string the first 66RA rackets 2 pounds less?

How in general should I understand this racket/string stiffness correlation?

Thank you all very much in advance.

 

[n8dawg6]

its even more complicated than that. a low RA racquet can still have a stiff feel, or even have a soft feel and still aggravate tennis elbow. all that being said, ive found soft strings are more important than a soft frame for elbow health.

that being said, theres always exceptions, and one perfect example is that you can put a stiff string in a PK and still have a more arm-friendly racquet than others with a soft string.

 

[SinneGOAT]

I generally find that soft racquets, when paired with soft strings, are a great combo. Soft racquets with a heavy emphasis on control(think blade v7) paired with a softer, more powerful string(head velocity, Wilson sensation, OGSM) is a better suited combo than a stiff racquet with a stiff string but strung less.

When it’s a stiff racquet, your options for strings becomes thinner if you are somebody who generates your own power(when I say stiff racquet, I think pure drive/aero, head extreme, Wilson ultra). If you can’t swing super fast or generate your own power, a multi in one of these racquets is perfectly fine. However if you swing with pace and good spin, you’d want a poly. From there, you would want something stiff or at least low powered, which is usually stiff.

By the way this is all subjective, you can still use a soft String in a stiff racquet, and Vice versa. I got TE while playing with a Wilson blade using a thin gauge of hyper g. I fixed my technique, haven’t had any problems since.

 

[LOBALOT]

its even more complicated than that. a low RA racquet can still have a stiff feel, or even have a soft feel and still aggravate tennis elbow. all that being said, ive found soft strings are more important than a soft frame for elbow health.

that being said, theres always exceptions, and one perfect example is that you can put a stiff string in a PK and still have a more arm-friendly racquet than others with a soft string.

That is right... I have friends that hit with low RA racquets but denser 18x20 patterns that then need to swing out more and get TE. Racquet head size of course impacts the density.

How one grips the racquet plays a factor, Technique plays a factor, how hard one hits, how frequently one hits....

 

[dimadima]

its even more complicated than that. a low RA racquet can still have a stiff feel, or even have a soft feel and still aggravate tennis elbow. all that being said, ive found soft strings are more important than a soft frame for elbow health.

that being said, theres always exceptions, and one perfect example is that you can put a stiff string in a PK and still have a more arm-friendly racquet than others with a soft string.

Thank you for an answer! So is there a general rule for selecting a racket that will probably not be a cause of tennis elbow? I don't want to narrow down this thread, but particularly now I am deciding between Vcore98 66RA and Head Gravity 100 62RA. I like Vcore more, but don't want to put myself under possible risk just because I like it more.

 

[dimadima]

There are so many IMHO deceiving videos on YouTube named "Elbow friendly rackets" and amateurs understand everything very straightforward:

Low flex racket = no Tennis Elbow
Stiff and mid stiff racket = Tennis Elbow

 

[KYHacker]

I wish people would stop with the stiff racquet versus flexible racquet questions about tennis elbow. If it's dramatically flexible like a Clash versus a Pure Drive, it will definitely make a difference. The biggest issue is more of where the sweetspot is and where the weight is distributed. IF you don't hit in the sweetspot regularly, you WILL get tennis elbow. I think that is why folks think that softer strings are better. Generally a softer string will offer the "feel" of a larger sweetspot. You can generally get almost the same effect with a stiffer poly at a MUCH lower tension. I will note that I have arm trouble EVERY time I play with a Pure Drive. I have come to the conclusion that it has something to do with weight distribution in the frame, because I don't have the same issues with other stiff frames. I never feel like I hit "on time" with the Pure Drive.

 

[dimadima]

I wish people would stop with the stiff racquet versus flexible racquet questions about tennis elbow. If it's dramatically flexible like a Clash versus a Pure Drive, it will definitely make a difference. The biggest issue is more of where the sweetspot is and where the weight is distributed. IF you don't hit in the sweetspot regularly, you WILL get tennis elbow. I think that is why folks think that softer strings are better. Generally a softer string will offer the "feel" of a larger sweetspot. You can generally get almost the same effect with a stiffer poly at a MUCH lower tension. I will note that I have arm trouble EVERY time I play with a Pure Drive. I have come to the conclusion that it has something to do with weight distribution in the frame, because I don't have the same issues with other stiff frames. I never feel like I hit "on time" with the Pure Drive.

Thank you very much for a detailed answer. Do you feel that Pure Drive is actually hurting your technique and that is what causes your TE? Do you think that if you played enough time to get used to Pure Drive and clean up the technique you will stop getting more TE?

 

[arsen]

Stiffnes of racket - just generates power. Elbow is your technique + sweet spot. I'm playing Pure Drive+Solinco Confidential 25/25.Everything is tough, but there are no problems with the elbow!!!!!

 

[Yamin]

String setup matters more than racket stiffness, and you'll probably have to shift strings or gauges rather than drop a few lbs of tension as the power probably won't be what you desire.

 

[smalahove]

When considering TE, there are more important factors than string tension and frame stiffness to consider first:

1. If you have a one handed backhand: how often, how long and how repetitive do you practice it?
   Varied training vs hour long backhand cross training only
2. How much effort are you putting into your shots?
   Playing mini-tennis (serve box area) with low pressure balls (f.inst. orange) VS. hard hitting from the baseline
3. How often do you play and how long?
   1h twice a week vs 2h sessions 4-5 times a week
4. How much time do you give yourself for recovery
   practice next day vs 2 days off

Not my area of expertise, but in weight training, they say TE is an indicator that the muscles supposed to do the work aren't strong enough, so that the upper arm muscles have to kick in to compensate which leads to TE.

So, if you have or starting to have TE and find out you want to enjoy playing tennis, one way to approach it is to acknowledge you have to reduce the exposure and strain on the muscles and tendons in the arm by:

1. playing less: once a week instead of 4-5 times
2. using less effort: playing on a shorter court with ball with lower pressure
3. having shorter sessions, as longer sessions leads to fatigue, which increases the chance of injuries and strain on the muscles and tendons
4. avoiding repetitive drills, esp for the one handed backhand for the same reasons as 3)

If you find yourself in the situation above, why would you use a racket setup intended for heavy hitting / producing a heavy ball, which is what stiff rackets are constructed for? And why would you use a stiff, high tension string setup, which is intended for controlling the ball for heavy hitting? Doe not compute

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

Thank you for an answer! So is there a general rule for selecting a racket that will probably not be a cause of tennis elbow? I don't want to narrow down this thread, but particularly now I am deciding between Vcore98 66RA and Head Gravity 100 62RA. I like Vcore more, but don't want to put myself under possible risk just because I like it more.

The VC98 should be fine with the right string.

 

[dimadima]

Thank you very much for detailed answers!

 

[jackson vile]

You’re always supposed to string as loosely as possible as long as you can still control the racket

A heavier racket is better as well

 

[WYK]

I can swing a full bed of 4g all day long when it's holding a Clash together.

 

[AmericanTwist]

66RA is medium stiff. Fed's racquet is 68RA, and I don't believe he gets TE. You will be fine unless you u use poly at mid to high tensions, and/or if you have bad technique. Sweet spot for me is 64-66RA with no poly strings though 62 or 63RA provides more spin and control (but less power too).

 

[dimadima]

66RA is medium stiff. Fed's racquet is 68RA, and I don't believe he gets TE. You will be fine unless you u use poly at mid to high tensions, and/or if you have bad technique. Sweet spot for me is 64-66RA with no poly strings though 62 or 63RA provides more spin and control (but less power too).

Thank you for answering. Rafa does not get a TE from his Aero and my shoulder almost fell off after playing a year with my Aero Pro Drive...

Everything is very, very personal. Technique, timing etc... Though I am always surprised when I read stories on this forum when somebody gets a new racket and almost immediately gets a TE with it, then switches back and everything settles down...

 

[theSHAMOO]

I played with a 6.1.95 growing up and never even experienced arm fatigue. Has a 71RA rating, but quite a bit more weight (compared to PS97 v11). Sometimes I wonder if I'd feel the same comfort if I switched back, or maybe it is just because I was younger

 

[AmericanTwist]

People should know that pros use whatever specs they like best, current models notwithstanding. Don't believe those current model paint jobs. From reading online I see that pros generally play with racquets in the 57-68RA range? Credit Fed and Wilson for bringing the RFA to market. The RFA is hardly the best racquet for anyone, but it is the best for Fed and Michelle from TW lol. That's a baller move, and we non-pros benefit from trying/playing with it.

So Rafa's racquet could be the original Aero Pro Drive 64RA. OP, maybe you are using a current model APD with RA of 67 or 68RA or 69RA? So they could be different racquets entirely even tho they LOOK THE SAME.

Another factor is the advent of poly strings which generally allow for more spin, but the downside is a stiff string bed and bad tension maintenance not to mention cost. People always want to have more spin so they'll use poly in stiffer racquets, and then they get injured. Those same stiffer racquets are generally fine with solid core syn gut, multi fiber syn gut, or natural gut however. Among the pros some use poly but on softer frames and often paired with natural gut which softens the stringbed.

So the bottom line is to find the optimal stiffness racquet, and this optimal flex may fluctuate as you get better (or worse! lol). Then you can customize a bit with lead weighting. Also try to use the same string like a solid core synthetic or a multi, or a soft poly to test. Try to use the heaviest softest frame that you can which still has acceptable power.

One last thing is the grip size and shape. I think optimal size is such that there is a 3-5mm gap between your palm flesh under your thumb and your third finger (ring finger). Also the size such that callouses are at a minimum because the handle fills out your hand grip with minimal gaps. Sizing is not the same among the brands. Ditto for the shape of the handles and butt cap flare. Good luck!

 

[Tranqville]

Vibration frequency is more important than stiffness for arm comfort and TE prevention. You can check it with TWU tools. High RA is safe when a racquet has a vibration dampening system. Raquet mass helps to absorb vibrations, so often a heavier racquet is safer.

Post important to change poly stings timely (usually after 10-15 hours of playing).

 

[KYHacker]

Twistweight is a big factor in TE. Too high of twist weight can cause the racquet to “plow” too much for your natural swing path and you end up overusing smaller muscles to negotiate the racquet through the swing path. That and the location of the sweet spot are the big factors. This is especially important if you hit high in the stringbed.
I hit high in the stringbed. So, the first criteria for me is a frame where the sweet spot isn’t too low. This can be somewhat tweaked with lead at 12 o’clock, but each gram there adds 3 points of swingweight, and so it doesn’t take long for the swingweight to get too high and cause late hitting. So start with a frame where the sweet spot is close to where you need it to be.
Second factor is how high the twistweight is. I suspect that this is the problem the the Pure Drive causes for a lot of folks— including me. The combination of the high twist weight and the thick beam causes a lot of stress on the finish and ends up hiring my arm over the course of a few weeks. It’s not the stiffness. It’s more of a lower swingweight combined with a high twistweight that is the issue.
Long story is that Pure Drive just doesn’t work for my natural swing path. It’s not the stiffness. I’ve played with a lot of frames that are stiffer with no problems.
What I’m getting at, though, is to not worry so much about stiffness and worry more about where you hit in the stringbed and what other specs matter for you. Concentrate on knowing your personal sweet spot for swingweight range and your personal sweetspot for twistweight. Worry about stiffness last.

 

[fuzz nation]

Hi!

It is a bit confusing regarding racket/string stiffness in terms of preventing tennis elbow.

Although I understand that tennis elbow is 90% about your technique and body physical condition I should also seriously take into account racket/string stiffness.

Question: let's say I have a 66RA and 62RA racquet. If I string them with same string and same tension the second racket will be more easy on my arm. But how will my arm feel if I string the first 66RA rackets 2 pounds less?

How in general should I understand this racket/string stiffness correlation?

Thank you all very much in advance.

It's still confusing for me after playing the game for most of my life and also stringing, teaching, and coaching high school teams for over 15 years now. Tennis elbow can be something of a phantom ailment. It's root causes vary widely from one player to the next with several contributing factors coming from activities unrelated to tennis.

In terms of our equipment though, I think it's most important to use a softer string in any racquet you chose.

In one of my "observations" from several years ago, a pal of mine - a solid former college player - was sidelined with severe tennis elbow for several months after switching to full beds of poly in his Pure Drive Roddicks. After some time off for healing and physical therapy, acupuncture, etc., he got back onto the courts and decided to keep his stiffer racquets. They were apparently a pretty good fit for him. But he switched to full beds of natural gut and I'm not exaggerating when I say that he had no further arm issues going forward with a busy tennis schedule. No aches, no twinges. It would seem that the natural gut was borderline miraculous in this example.

I can play every day just fine using my somewhat flexible Volkl C10's strung with synthetic gut. But a few years ago I sampled a full bed of reputedly "softer" poly tensioned in the low 40's in one of my supremely comfortable C10's (supremely comfortable for me). After only two sessions of trying it on the practice courts for only 15-20 minutes each, I was also out of action for a couple of months with that acute form of tennis elbow where I couldn't really hold a glass of water for about two weeks.

Much of the evidence connected with tennis elbow is anecdotal, but I've seen enough of the ups and downs among the players at every level in my area to convince me that string selection tops the list of priorities for promoting arm health. If you like a certain racquet that's a little on the stiffer end of the spectrum, just use a soft enough string to keep it comfortable for you.

If a certain racquet seems to be inherently high-powered for you and it seems as though the only way for you to tame it would be to string it with poly or a poly hybrid, I'd say use something else. A different frame having more flex along with a similar weight and balance might fit your game well enough and the extra flex can usually help with control and comfort.

 

[socallefty]

#1 rule for preventing tennis elbow - don’t play with dead poly which means don’t play with a string job once you start feeling soreness or tightness in any part of your arm or shoulder. If everyone strung poly under 50 lbs and less than 15 hours (10 hours for stiffer polys) with soft polys, strings would not be a factor for causing tennis elbow. But, rec players seem to think it is a sin to cut out strings before they break. They also don’t seem to know that poly performance is very good when strung in the forties.

If you use poly properly and restring often, then the only thing to avoid is racquets with RA stiffness above 70 or Vibration frequency above 150-155 Hz.

 

[dimadima]

Thank you all very much for a Harvard like level of answers! So happy to see so well educated and experienced players on this forum.

 

[rst]

i actually use a kevlar main / syngut cross both at 55lbs with a flexy prince phantom 03 port racket....with a gel filled grip and a few layers of tourna on top....super comfy.

 

[BillKid]

String tension is also a very important parameter. It's probably obvious for many folks here, but it looks like many people are still using rather high tension. Many players are reluctant using tension lower than 48 or 50 lbs, but control is still very good and comfort is much better at low tension.

 

[Wilhelm]

This topic is severely underestimated among rec players. I see lots of guys in my club who are massaging their wrists in pain between points and IMHO this is totally unnecessary.

Stiff frame + stiff poly = no bueno
Stiff frame + softer hybrid or multi = ok, but still harsh
Soft frame + stiff poly = nice
Soft frame + softer hybrid or multi = pillow experience

For me, the frame makes a bigger difference than the strings, but it also depends on how much you play etc.