Racquet Factors That Contribute To More Power...

Rexking

Professional
Racquet Factors That Contribute To More Power:

Larger head size

Higher stiffness

Higher swingweight

More open string pattern

Thicker beam width

Longer frame


(Let me know if I'm missing any other factors)

My question is which factor contributes to the most power increase and in what order, considering all the factors.

Note this discussion is about racquet factors only and not considering string types or tensions.

I do realize what I'm asking is more complicated than a straight forward answer as one need to consider scenarios such as the power increase from an 18mm beam to an 25mm beam compared to power increase from an 93 head to an 95 head.

I'm looking forward to hear your thoughts.
 
If you're working out basic racquet physics, I think you've pretty much covered them. In my experience, stiffness ratings can be a bit misleading, but usually those beam widths are rather telling - wider usually means more stiff.

Are you looking for parameters that will give you more power in your gear or something? These different power spec's are fine on their own, but keep in mind that the racquet has to fit the person swinging it. I've always used heavy racquets, but when I wanted more control from the baseline, I tried out frames with a lot more flex. What I found was what I like to refer to as "controllable power". With the combo of heft and flex in these racquets, I could smoke the ball - with my stroke style - and keep my shots down on the court. Going for less stiffness let me effectively play with more power.

Just my $.02
 
Forgot Mass!

From w w w. r a c q u e t r e s e a r c h. c o m:

"The Effect of Mass and of Swingweight

More mass is definitely better. More swingweight (moment of inertia) is also definitely better. The touring pros, in customizing their racquets, add mass and increase swingweight, because they know from personal experience what really works. Their customized racquets bite on the ball more, so they are able to generate heavy spin on their forehands and serves. Pete Sampras' heavily customized Wilson Pro Staff 85 (a modification of the legendary St. Vincent ProStaff, which is no longer in production) weighs 14 ounces, about the same as the old woodies, but much heavier than the heaviest racquets marketed to the public these days.

...Racquet manufacturers tout light weight as if it were something good, when in fact they should be putting a warning label on their racquets advising buyers that they are increasing their risk of disabling injury if they insist on banging away with a wimp stick. The heavier, the better. If 14 ounces sounds big to you, consider that even ladies and juniors used to play with wood racquets that weighed that much, and Don Budge won the Grand Slam with a racquet that weighed a whole pound.

Mass (in kilograms, symbol M) is a measure of the racquet's "inertia," a word that means essentially its resistance to change. The change resisted by mass is change in linear (straight-line) velocity. More mass means that the racquet will not slow down so much on impact. A short, controlled swing of a heavyweight racquet can hit the ball harder than a frantic flail of a featherweight. Same as bats in baseball: if you want home run power, bring a heavy bat to the plate. Babe Ruth's long bat weighed 52 ounces. You want a racquet that will hit through the ball, instead of bouncing off...

Weight is not bad. You need weight to return a "heavy" ball (lots of pace and spin). Wimpy racquets can't put much pace on the ball if you don't have time to develop a long stroke, such as when you are stretched wide.

Maybe, in the short space that you have to execute your stroke, you might swing the wimpy racquet a little faster -- but swing speed is not the key. Momentum, not energy, and not force, is what counts in a collision (Conservation of Momentum is the principle), and in computing momentum the racquet's mass is just as important as its velocity (momentum = mass times velocity). Readers with baseball experience know what happens when you try to hit a hardball home run with a softball (i.e. lightweight) bat. A softball bat cannot hit a hardball very far because it doesn't bring enough mass to the collision, and therefore its momentum on impact is low.

High Tip Speed is bad for accuracy because it is harder to time a violent swing precisely. Even if you succeed in increasing the Tip Speed enough to offset the racquet's lack of mass, the shot will be hard to place.

...The touring pros know better. They add weight when they customize their racquets. A more massive (heavier) racquet will crush majestically through the ball instead of bouncing off, which makes it more comfortable on impact and more accurate..."
 
From w w w. r a c q u e t r e s e a r c h. c o m:"

I am not sure that I agree with all of this... More importantly, I am not sure physics agree with all of this. I think the author most likely knows what he is talking about, but I think he's said some things that might be misleading.

The touring pros, in customizing their racquets, add mass and increase swingweight, because they know from personal experience what really works. Their customized racquets bite on the ball more, so they are able to generate heavy spin on their forehands and serves.

This seems to imply that increasing mass and increasing swingweight creates a racket "bite on the ball more" and help them "generate heavy spin". There is no correlation here. These things will obviously effect the spin/pace of your shot (and definitely can help), but blanket statements like this make no sense. If I add 8 ounces to the tip of my racket, I am not going to get more spin on my forehand and serve. I promise.

Weight is not bad. You need weight to return a "heavy" ball (lots of pace and spin). Wimpy racquets can't put much pace on the ball if you don't have time to develop a long stroke, such as when you are stretched wide.

You don't "need" weight to return a heavy ball. The length of your stroke has nothing to do with it, either.

When I'm stretched wide and can't develop a long stroke, I would much rather have a light frame. If you've just sacrificed your balance to get in position to just able to reach a ball, your wrist is going to be able to do a lot more with a lighter frame than a heavier frame. Here, velocity is going to be the key more so than mass...

High Tip Speed is bad for accuracy because it is harder to time a violent swing precisely.

I guess if you're swinging "violently", then yeah.

A more massive (heavier) racquet will crush majestically through the ball insteadmakes it more comfortable on impact and more accurate

This, in my opinion, is one of the biggest reasons the majority of players should switch to a heavier frame.

Anyway, this is me killing time over my lunch break.
 
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It will crush majestically only when hitting flat, assuming the racquet is in the right position in the first place. Today, almost every shot is hot with topspin, which requires fast down to up swings. racquetresearch.com was last updated in 2002 I think.
 
Racquet Factors That Contribute To More Power:

Larger head size

Higher stiffness

Higher swingweight

More open string pattern

Thicker beam width

Longer frame

#1 Swingweight
#2 Longer frame
#3 Headsize (but smaller is more powerful in sweetspot)

The rest seem pretty insignificant, certainly relative to string tension.
 
I am not sure that I agree with all of this... More importantly, I am not sure physics agree with all of this. I think the author most likely knows what he is talking about, but I think he's said some things that might be misleading.

This seems to imply that increasing mass and increasing swingweight creates a racket "bite on the ball more" and help them "generate heavy spin". There is no correlation here. These things will obviously effect the spin/pace of your shot (and definitely can help), but blanket statements like this make no sense. If I add 8 ounces to the tip of my racket, I am not going to get more spin on my forehand and serve. I promise.

The author behind racquet research is completely against head heavy racquet, if that is what you mean. In fact, he believes that 9 in. hl racquet (but a heavy one) is perfect! He writes about placing lead in 9 and 3 o'clock positions and I do not recall him talking about lead in the tip of the racquet. However, that is exactly what Nadal does to his racquets! Go figure!

You don't "need" weight to return a heavy ball. The length of your stroke has nothing to do with it, either.

I respectfully disagree with the first sentence. I once play some guy that hits a considerably "heavy ball" and my then my relatively light racquet twisted frequently in my hand. I know could it be lot of things but... let's put it this way, if you do not need weight to return a heavy ball, go ahead and play tennis with a badminton racquet and then come to this boards and say you did not struggle to return even a drop shot.
 
I respectfully disagree with the first sentence. I once play some guy that hits a considerably "heavy ball" and my then my relatively light racquet twisted frequently in my hand. I know could it be lot of things but... let's put it this way, if you do not need weight to return a heavy ball, go ahead and play tennis with a badminton racquet and then come to this boards and say you did not struggle to return even a drop shot.

Well, there are obviously limits. A badminton racquet would fail structurally the first time I hit a tennis ball with it. It's not within the realm of reasonable for tennis play.

When considering extremely light *tennis* racquets against heavy pace, they will only work if you can swing them fast enough. So if you can't swing very fast, you definitely need a heavier frame.

The other problem that someone encounters against heavy pace is timing. If the ball is hit really hard and it comes at you faster than you are used to, you need to set up earlier and time the ball quicker than usual. If this causes you to hit late then the contact will be off center, and it will twist your racquet, even if you have a heavy frame, someone who can mess with your timing with pace, spin, or both will tend to make you mishit and experience some twisting.

So the amount of weight you need in your frame to handle heavy pace is variable for every player. I would say a general rule, assuming your preparation is up to the task, is that you can handle as much pace as you can hit. So if your current racquet set up allows you to blast 80mph forehands then you should be fine handling an 80mph forehand. If someone comes along with a 90mph forehand, then you might be in trouble. Of course if you can hit an 80mph with good control, then your opponent is probably going to have his work cut out for him anyway, especially if you don't hit to his forehand. :-)
 
Well, there are obviously limits. A badminton racquet would fail structurally the first time I hit a tennis ball with it. It's not within the realm of reasonable for tennis play.

When considering extremely light *tennis* racquets against heavy pace, they will only work if you can swing them fast enough. So if you can't swing very fast, you definitely need a heavier frame.

...

So the amount of weight you need in your frame to handle heavy pace is variable for every player. I would say a general rule, assuming your preparation is up to the task, is that you can handle as much pace as you can hit. So if your current racquet set up allows you to blast 80mph forehands then you should be fine handling an 80mph forehand. If someone comes along with a 90mph forehand, then you might be in trouble. Of course if you can hit an 80mph with good control, then your opponent is probably going to have his work cut out for him anyway, especially if you don't hit to his forehand. :-)

I tend to agree with you, but even people that swing very fast and can happily use a lighter frame, they still face a big problem: more shock and harm to their elbow and shoulder.

More from rr.com:

"If you are inclined to buy a granny stick, consider this: if you were in a car accident, which would you rather be driving, a compact or a truck? We all know that the light car will get crushed. The collision of a racquet and a ball is the same thing: a heavy racquet will keep going on impact, crushing the ball more for better pace and spin.

Light racquet partisans argue that because you can swing the light racquet faster, it will hit harder than a heavy racquet. Granted that if you have the time and energy to execute a long violent stroke, you can swing the light racquet faster and get greater head velocity on impact. Three problems with that: (1) a violent stroke is harder to control; (2) when you are stretching for a shot, you don't have time to execute a long stroke, so velocity will be small and because racquet weight is small also, your shot will be weak; and (3) the light, fast racquet will slow down a lot on impact, stressing the arm. All of that lost energy will have to go somewhere, like your arm. Momentum (mass times velocity) and not force (mass times acceleration) or energy (1/2 mass times velocity squared) is what counts in a collision. Oops, sorry -- a little scary physics there, but the point is crucial for understanding the principle. It's an elementary point called Conservation of Momentum, which any first semester physics student should know.

What you want is a racquet that will give you the most ball speed for the least effort (Efficiency), and which will not stress your elbow or shoulder (Elbow Safety and Shoulder Safety). What you don't want is to put in a lot of effort on a wild shot that wrecks your arm.

But what if you put most of the mass in the head, making the racquet head-heavy? Wouldn't you then have a light racquet that hits hard? The light, head-heavy racquet will have a high swingweight, which is good for pace and spin. Swingweight is the inertia (resistance to change in motion) of the racquet as it rotates, and what this means in practice is that it's harder to whip, but once you get the racquet rotating (e.g. on the wrist snap of the serve) it will want to keep rotating when it meets the ball and will crush through, mashing the ball against the strings for better spin and pace. That's the advantage of the Hammer and the extra-longs. But in combination with light weight, there are these drawbacks on closer scrutiny: (1) a light and head-heavy racquet is bad for the elbow and shoulder, for technical reasons explained elsewhere; (2) it feels heavy and sluggish to position for volleys and returns; (3) the power comes from your effort, not the racquet, and you have to work a lot harder to get a certain ball speed than with a heavy and head-light racquet."
 
You are ignoring how much stress is placed on the arm by swinging a heavy frame. That is why people who try heavy frames complain that they cannot swing it for 3 sets.
 
I'll see if I can kill some more time...

I tend to agree with you, but even people that swing very fast and can happily use a lighter frame, they still face a big problem: more shock and harm to their elbow and shoulder.

More from rr.com:

Light racquet partisans argue that because you can swing the light racquet faster, it will hit harder than a heavy racquet. Granted that if you have the time and energy to execute a long violent stroke, you can swing the light racquet faster and get greater head velocity on impact. Three problems with that: (1) a violent stroke is harder to control;

What is this guys deal with the "long violent stroke"? Most people reading a website like his are going to be interested in proper mechanics, at least I would hope. I don't think you have to have a "violent stroke" to be effective with a lighter frame and I don't think using a lighter frame forces anyone to have a violent or harmful stroke that they might not otherwise develop. In fact, trying to muscle the ball and produce an effective shot (with top spin, especially) with a HEAVY frame might be just as dangerous, if not more so.

What you want is a racquet that will give you the most ball speed for the least effort (Efficiency).........What you don't want is to put in a lot of effort on a wild shot that wrecks your arm.

Uhhh... I don't think this is true. That is not what I want from my racket, nor is it what most players want. I do agree with the second part, but I can still put in a lot of effort on a wild shot and wreck my arm pretty easily with a heavy frame. In fact, I've done it!
 
I'll see if I can kill some more time...





What is this guys deal with the "long violent stroke"? Most people reading a website like his are going to be interested in proper mechanics, at least I would hope. I don't think you have to have a "violent stroke" to be effective with a lighter frame and I don't think using a lighter frame forces anyone to have a violent or harmful stroke that they might not otherwise develop. In fact, trying to muscle the ball and produce an effective shot (with top spin, especially) with a HEAVY frame might be just as dangerous, if not more so.



Uhhh... I don't think this is true. That is not what I want from my racket, nor is it what most players want. I do agree with the second part, but I can still put in a lot of effort on a wild shot and wreck my arm pretty easily with a heavy frame. In fact, I've done it!

That 's not due to the heavy racquet but a wrong technique!
 
That 's not due to the heavy racquet but a wrong technique!

Well, wrong technique is either happening most of the time if you're not an experienced player, or it's happening as a result of forcing shots if you are experienced. I think whether or not you want a heavier frame might depend on how you handle forcing shots. I like to swing when I'm forced, so I like a medium weight headlight frame. I don't think I'd have too much trouble playing with a 14oz. frame most of the time, but when I'm rushed and need to defend I'd rather have something I can get around quick.
 
For me, racquet stiffness and a overall heavy weight allow for power. Lighter frames for me do not allow for power because there is not enough mass not to mention stability once you hit the ball. F=ma for all you physics freaks. The m must be larger so the F can be follow.
 
How to get power?
Step into the ball, and hit it in the sweetspot.
I use a 12 1/2 oz flexible HL racquet,and hit it harder than most with no arm pain.
Robby C
 
There is no substitute for weight. You can discuss all day long, but this is the simple truth. Another thing is that many people who don't practice enough, cannot swing a heavy racquet for a long time... At the end of the day though, if you are able to swing a heavy racquet, you will be able to become a better player than someone who isn't. Weight brings more controlled power. That is why a racquet with a smaller headsize that is heavier can provide you with a very accurate yet powerful shot. On the other hand, a light racquet with a larger headsize may give you the illusion that it is more powerful, but it does not back that power with the needed control. Then, you start sending the balls straight into the back fence and wonder what you are doing wrong. Then you start adjusting your swing and technique and that puts you in an even bigger mess. For that reason, train every day and play with as heavy racquet as you can and that will put you in a different league. Heavier racquet is subject to adjustment so don't dismiss it after one practice. In two weeks you will get used to it and be happy that you stuck with it. Light stiff racquets are the worst thing that has ever happened to tennis. Those brought around more tennis elbow, less controlled power, and less feel for the ball. They are only good for the hobby players that play once a week and can't swing a heavy racquet for more than 15 minutes.
 
There is no substitute for weight. You can discuss all day long, but this is the simple truth. Another thing is that many people who don't practice enough, cannot swing a heavy racquet for a long time... At the end of the day though, if you are able to swing a heavy racquet, you will be able to become a better player than someone who isn't. Weight brings more controlled power. That is why a racquet with a smaller headsize that is heavier can provide you with a very accurate yet powerful shot. On the other hand, a light racquet with a larger headsize may give you the illusion that it is more powerful, but it does not back that power with the needed control. Then, you start sending the balls straight into the back fence and wonder what you are doing wrong. Then you start adjusting your swing and technique and that puts you in an even bigger mess. For that reason, train every day and play with as heavy racquet as you can and that will put you in a different league. Heavier racquet is subject to adjustment so don't dismiss it after one practice. In two weeks you will get used to it and be happy that you stuck with it. Light stiff racquets are the worst thing that has ever happened to tennis. Those brought around more tennis elbow, less controlled power, and less feel for the ball. They are only good for the hobby players that play once a week and can't swing a heavy racquet for more than 15 minutes.
Very well said! I completely agree with you.
 
There is no substitute for weight. You can discuss all day long, but this is the simple truth. Another thing is that many people who don't practice enough, cannot swing a heavy racquet for a long time... At the end of the day though, if you are able to swing a heavy racquet, you will be able to become a better player than someone who isn't. Weight brings more controlled power. That is why a racquet with a smaller headsize that is heavier can provide you with a very accurate yet powerful shot. On the other hand, a light racquet with a larger headsize may give you the illusion that it is more powerful, but it does not back that power with the needed control. Then, you start sending the balls straight into the back fence and wonder what you are doing wrong. Then you start adjusting your swing and technique and that puts you in an even bigger mess. For that reason, train every day and play with as heavy racquet as you can and that will put you in a different league. Heavier racquet is subject to adjustment so don't dismiss it after one practice. In two weeks you will get used to it and be happy that you stuck with it. Light stiff racquets are the worst thing that has ever happened to tennis. Those brought around more tennis elbow, less controlled power, and less feel for the ball. They are only good for the hobby players that play once a week and can't swing a heavy racquet for more than 15 minutes.

Idem ditto,

Althoug I would like to add something. Heavy racquets with low swingweight can be just as anemic as it comes to power like lightweight granny sticks. Swingweight and not static weight is the determining factor IMO. That is also why longbodies tend to have more power. As they are longer, they usually have higher swingweights.

As you say, actually many midsize frames pack a lot of power. Just look at TW university racquet power potential. The K90 outpowers almost anything, except the pure drive and even that one only wins by a small margin, and in play that small margin is called control, and it is actually a big margin in favor of the K90.
 
For me, racquet stiffness and a overall heavy weight allow for power. Lighter frames for me do not allow for power because there is not enough mass not to mention stability once you hit the ball. F=ma for all you physics freaks. The m must be larger so the F can be follow.
Yes,but F depends on a too,not only the mass of the racquet,you have to find your ballance.
 
Idem ditto,

Althoug I would like to add something. Heavy racquets with low swingweight can be just as anemic as it comes to power like lightweight granny sticks. Swingweight and not static weight is the determining factor IMO. That is also why longbodies tend to have more power. As they are longer, they usually have higher swingweights.

As you say, actually many midsize frames pack a lot of power. Just look at TW university racquet power potential. The K90 outpowers almost anything, except the pure drive and even that one only wins by a small margin, and in play that small margin is called control, and it is actually a big margin in favor of the K90.

Yep, this is sort of what I'm getting at with the idea of "controllable power". We're not using these racquets for some sort of long ball contest where we're trying to hit it the farthest off a tee or something. Even hard, fast serves aren't much use without accuracy.

ilian - I hear you loud and clear. A couple of years ago, I took up with some very heavy midsize frames that forced me to overhaul my technique so that I could play well with them. These were the LM Prestige and Prince NXG - lots of flex, not a lot of pop. Suddenly I couldn't get away with too much arm in my strokes and had to get better with my footwork so that my legs and core muscles could drive my shots. It meant several weeks of rather hard work to change my habits and stroke tempo, but it was the best investment I ever made in my game. With good mechanics, these racquets are pure evil for serving, too.
 
All advantages of a heavy rackuet disappear when you can´t it in the correct position, that in tennis is almost always.

When you hit topspin, you need racket speed (Low To High motion) not only flat motion, and it is impossible whith a very heavy racket.
 
Maybe we should define what is considered heavy. I don't really consider a frame heavy until it's over 12oz. I would say middle weight is 10-12oz. and light is under 10oz. I think for most people anything that is middle weight is fine.
 
Here is a program that helps answer the question:

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/specsandspeed.html

An article and some graphs accompany it. The bottom line is that swingweight is the only spec that consistently shows a direct relationship to power. With every other spec that does contribute to power, you will notice that when isolated and sorted by that spec, its contribution to power can be negated or disguised by other factors that decrease power. Not so much with swingweight.

In general, the big three contributors to power are swingweight, flex, and stringbed performance. However, swingweight probably makes up about 80-90% of that.

Also, the standard measurement of flex is somewhat ambiguous. A frame flexes locally all across the head, it flexes in and out like a beating heart, and it twists. It flexes in many directions. The "flex measurement" only measures flex in one location and one direction. So, for centerline hits it should be somewhat correlative, but again, its influence can be washed out by other factors. And remember, at a location near the "node" sweetspot (around 21/0 on the program), the frame will bend almost nil, so longitudinal flex is not a big issue on those impacts.
 
That's why I tend to like lower swing weight racquets, and when I add weight it almost always goes mostly to the butt. I like my racquets to have just a smidgen of power.
 
From w w w. r a c q u e t r e s e a r c h. c o m:

"The Effect of Mass and of Swingweight

More mass is definitely better. More swingweight (moment of inertia) is also definitely better. The touring pros, in customizing their racquets, add mass and increase swingweight, because they know from personal experience what really works. Their customized racquets bite on the ball more, so they are able to generate heavy spin on their forehands and serves. Pete Sampras' heavily customized Wilson Pro Staff 85 (a modification of the legendary St. Vincent ProStaff, which is no longer in production) weighs 14 ounces, about the same as the old woodies, but much heavier than the heaviest racquets marketed to the public these days.

...Racquet manufacturers tout light weight as if it were something good, when in fact they should be putting a warning label on their racquets advising buyers that they are increasing their risk of disabling injury if they insist on banging away with a wimp stick. The heavier, the better. If 14 ounces sounds big to you, consider that even ladies and juniors used to play with wood racquets that weighed that much, and Don Budge won the Grand Slam with a racquet that weighed a whole pound.

Mass (in kilograms, symbol M) is a measure of the racquet's "inertia," a word that means essentially its resistance to change. The change resisted by mass is change in linear (straight-line) velocity. More mass means that the racquet will not slow down so much on impact. A short, controlled swing of a heavyweight racquet can hit the ball harder than a frantic flail of a featherweight. Same as bats in baseball: if you want home run power, bring a heavy bat to the plate. Babe Ruth's long bat weighed 52 ounces. You want a racquet that will hit through the ball, instead of bouncing off...

Weight is not bad. You need weight to return a "heavy" ball (lots of pace and spin). Wimpy racquets can't put much pace on the ball if you don't have time to develop a long stroke, such as when you are stretched wide.

Maybe, in the short space that you have to execute your stroke, you might swing the wimpy racquet a little faster -- but swing speed is not the key. Momentum, not energy, and not force, is what counts in a collision (Conservation of Momentum is the principle), and in computing momentum the racquet's mass is just as important as its velocity (momentum = mass times velocity). Readers with baseball experience know what happens when you try to hit a hardball home run with a softball (i.e. lightweight) bat. A softball bat cannot hit a hardball very far because it doesn't bring enough mass to the collision, and therefore its momentum on impact is low.

High Tip Speed is bad for accuracy because it is harder to time a violent swing precisely. Even if you succeed in increasing the Tip Speed enough to offset the racquet's lack of mass, the shot will be hard to place.

...The touring pros know better. They add weight when they customize their racquets. A more massive (heavier) racquet will crush majestically through the ball instead of bouncing off, which makes it more comfortable on impact and more accurate..."


I'm with Suresh and the Rocket on this one. My point? as far as I know Easton makes a bazillion bats that crush baseballs that are designed to be light. Drivers are designed to crush golf balls and be light. If this author were right, baseball bats, golf clubs and tennis racquets would weigh a lot more.

And I'm not sure where this author is coming from with the "long, violent swing" comment.

In the end it's an easy math equation: F=MA. Since were talking about humans the F is constant, therefore acceleration = Force/Mass, the higher the mass the lower the accerlation. The lower the accerlation the lower the speed which is what's missing from this authors argument.
 
I'm with Suresh and the Rocket on this one. My point? as far as I know Easton makes a bazillion bats that crush baseballs that are designed to be light. Drivers are designed to crush golf balls and be light. If this author were right, baseball bats, golf clubs and tennis racquets would weigh a lot more.

Baseball bats are 30"+, golf drivers are 40"+ and in both cases the manufacturer tries to put as much weight at the tip as possible. This increases the swing weight, which increases the momentum at impact.


And I'm not sure where this author is coming from with the "long, violent swing" comment.

In the end it's an easy math equation: F=MA. Since were talking about humans the F is constant, therefore acceleration = Force/Mass, the higher the mass the lower the accerlation. The lower the accerlation the lower the speed which is what's missing from this authors argument.

This isn't really the right equation, you really want to look at momentum to see how much force will be applied to the ball at impact. Also force is not constant for humans. I can't swing a 9oz low swingweight racquet any faster than I can swing my daughters 4oz Dora the Explorer Wilson. If F was constant for humans there would be no need to have gears on a bicycle.
 
i agree...

This isn't really the right equation, you really want to look at momentum to see how much force will be applied to the ball at impact. Also force is not constant for humans. I can't swing a 9oz low swingweight racquet any faster than I can swing my daughters 4oz Dora the Explorer Wilson. If F was constant for humans there would be no need to have gears on a bicycle.

there are 2 sets of energy transfer:

  • human to racquet. for that i would imagine lighter is better within some practical range of application. for instance, there's some practical limit on how fast a human can swing a racquet. however, within that limit a particular person may have sufficient strength to get a heavier racquet up to the same speed as a light racquet, which tends to increase the energy available in the racquet. i could almost see a 2-dimensional chart for racquet weight x racquet speed, and for each individual there would be a test to establish the unique point or maybe range of points which maximize that weight x speed product he/she can generate while actually swinging accurately at a ball.
  • racquet to ball. lots and lots of variables here. i cant even begin to wrap my brain around all of the variables. things like technique (ability to keep the racquet on the ball and in the sweetspot), the racquet (energy that's been passed in from the player, stiffness/elasticity, propensity to twist, how efficiently the strings and frame interact), strings (lots of elasticity-related factors), geometry (racquet, players arm/swing), and i'm sure lots more...
 
there are 2 sets of energy transfer:

  • human to racquet. for that i would imagine lighter is better within some practical range of application.

But it's not the racquet weight that dictates this, it's the racquet's swingweight that will make it harder to swing. Swinging a golf club by it's handle is way harder than swinging it by the head. The golf club weighs the same, regardless of which end you hold it by. The difference is that the swingweight is vastly different.
 
good point

But it's not the racquet weight that dictates this, it's the racquet's swingweight that will make it harder to swing. Swinging a golf club by it's handle is way harder than swinging it by the head. The golf club weighs the same, regardless of which end you hold it by. The difference is that the swingweight is vastly different.

so the "human-to-racquet" part is even more complex, including a "racquet physics/geometry" aspect. not just a light weight, but how that weight is distributed. and i would imagine not just swing-weight but also moment-of-inertia (i think swing-weight is a practical proxy for MOI, which can be difficult to determine).
 
I don't think your average healthy adult tennis player has a power problem. I really don't get the obsession with power. Yeah, I could get a 2lb. racquet and barely swing it and knock the ball into the fence, but what's the point. I've coached 8 yr. old kids that can hit the ball over the fence. They do this with 8oz. junior frames too.

I had one kid play with my frame. He did much better with it because he couldn't swing it nearly as fast. He was still hitting the ball too hard, but it got him close enough that he could see some progress and that helped more than the racquet.

The problem with a heavy frame IMO is spin generation. I say go as heavy as you can until it affects your spin generation. I like having a racquet where the spin goes to 11. :-)
 
so the "human-to-racquet" part is even more complex, including a "racquet physics/geometry" aspect. not just a light weight, but how that weight is distributed. and i would imagine not just swing-weight but also moment-of-inertia (i think swing-weight is a practical proxy for MOI, which can be difficult to determine).

Swingweight is moment of inertia with the axis of rotation 3" (10.16cm) from the butt of the racquet.
 
Why look at all the factors that contribute to racquet power? Why not just look at the racquet power itself? That is a measured quantity. TW has measured the power of every racquet in 15 different locations on the racquet face. Go here:

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/cgi-bin/comparepower.cgi

This shows the power. If you want to see how far and how fast each racquet will hit it, click the link in the bottom left ("show me racquet shot distances"). If you want to see the size of power zones (the area of t 20%, 30%, and 40% power potential, click "show me power zones sizes". From there you can get a complete list of rankings of every racquet at every location by clicking the "location rankings" link in the menu.

The power measurements are the RESULT of all the factors that go into power.

If you want to alter the power of a racquet once you have it, then there are just two factors you can change--swingweight and string plane stiffness (string type and tension). Swingweight is the most important factor of the two.

Adding swingweight slows racquet speed. What effect does that have on ball speed? See my next post for that discussion.
 
Prof,

In the the test procedure article it says:
"We impact a stationary, free standing racquet at 15 locations, each measured in inches from the butt."

A couple questions:
  • Do you have a picture of this test setup?
  • Would somehow hinging it at 3" from butt produce different numbers?
 
On pages 22-23 of the book "Technical Tennis" (published by Racquet Tech Publishing and available at TW : http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpage-TECHTENNIS.html ), there is a description of an experiment of how swing speed and the resulting ball speed is affected when a racquet's weight (swingweight) is increased. There is an example for a serve (swinging at maximum possible) and a groundstroke (swinging at half maximum speed).

The net result for a serve was that if swingweight is doubled (very unlikely!), swing speed will decrease by 17%. But the increase in mass completely, or almost completely makes up for the power loss due to a slower swing. At very high swingweights (up to 500 grams), only 1-2 mph were lost.

For a groundstoke, the assumption was that you don't swing as hard as is possible on every stroke. A 50% of maximum was chosen. In this case, the ball speed always increased no matter the decline in racquet speed due to the added swingweight.

Here are graphs of the serve and groundstroke (compliments of Racquet Tech Publishing):

joesserve.jpg
joesforhand.jpg


They show that as weight (experiment devised so swingweight is proportional to weight, so we are talking about the same thing) goes up, rebound power (power potential) goes up and swing speed goes down (dotted line). In those cases, serve speed plateaus and then decreases ever so slightly, and for the forehand, shot speed steadily increases but at decreasing rate.
 
This really isnt complex in a real world on court practical sort of way.

Weight gives power but only if the racquet is swung fast enough with good technique and the sweetzone is hit. This is precisely why heavier racquets with smaller sweetzones are designated for advanced players....less than advanced players dont have good technique...this is a simple notion that escapes many around here.

Dont hit the sweetzone with enough batspeed and a 'so called' heavy stable racquet becomes an unstable weenie ;O..far more unstable than the lighter racquet swing with sufficient batspeed and flush hit

In a nutshell, batspeed is your friend..it is almost always better than choosing more mass. This is evidenced in most all of the other batsports as well....baseball bats (the babes bat was way heavier than barry bonds'). golf clubs (where a pro from days gone by might be swinging e8 swingweights, they may be swinging d2's now...they also are mostly all using jumbo sized drivers).

batspeed is your friend...know the swingweight which is best for you, and use something you can reliably flush hit
 
Prof,

In the the test procedure article it says:
"We impact a stationary, free standing racquet at 15 locations, each measured in inches from the butt."

A couple questions:
  • Do you have a picture of this test setup?
  • Would somehow hinging it at 3" from butt produce different numbers?

1. Sorry, no pictures.

2. I will not make a difference. The experiment is set up so that the racquet is free-standing such that it is not held in place by anything, not even a hand. The reason is so that we can test the racquet independent of other factors.

Adding a hand holding the grip, for example, only muddies the result and ultimately has no effect anyway. In an impact, the ball never finds out that a hand is holding on. The signal (bending wave) that this additional weight is way down there at the handle never gets delivered to the ball. It leaves just before the signal gets there (with the exception, perhaps, of hits right near the throat and for extremely, extremely stiff racquets).

During impact, the racquet behaves as if it is free-standing. Howard Brody once did an experiment hitting with a hinge halfway up the shaft, so only the head was involved in the impact. The result was that ball speeds were virtually the same.
 
One of the most over-looked tools on TWU is the Hittingweight Calculator. Hittingwieght is how heavy the impact location behaves when it is hit. It is the actually amount of weight behind impact. Every location has a different hittingweight.

Hittingweight is a very intuitive way at looking at racquet power. The situation can be thought of as two billiard balls colliding. On ball is the 57 gram ball and the other is a billiard ball of the location's hittingweight. You will find some racquets up at the tip where the hittingweight is very close to the tennis ball's weight. If it were the same, then for a non-swinging racquet, the ball would come to a complete stop and the racquet would fly off instead.

Here is the link:

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/cgi-bin/hittingwtrac.cgi

It is just a little pop up calculator. You can also get there from the TWU home page and clicking "Calculate hittingweight at impact location" on the right side of the screen.
 
...

Hittingweight is a very intuitive way at looking at racquet power. The situation can be thought of as two billiard balls colliding. On ball is the 57 gram ball and the other is a billiard ball of the location's hittingweight. You will find some racquets up at the tip where the hittingweight is very close to the tennis ball's weight. If it were the same, then for a non-swinging racquet, the ball would come to a complete stop and the racquet would fly off instead.

....

Great post. Would the relative stiffness of the ball vs stringbed have an effect in this scenario? Or would a drop in stiffness on either colliding party just decrease overall rebound energy?
 
Great post. Would the relative stiffness of the ball vs stringbed have an effect in this scenario? Or would a drop in stiffness on either colliding party just decrease overall rebound energy?

Yes, although it is better to leave the analogy and go back and think about the racquet. Think of the impact location as having a "local" weight, stringbed stiffness, and flex. In this case, if the local stringbed were stiffer compared to the ball, the ball would deform more and lose energy, thereby decreasing the speed of the shot a little bit. Hittingweight doesn't say it all. Racquet flex and stringbed stiffness matter but not near as much as hittingweight (which is derived from swingweight and twistweight).

If the ball were less stiff (not much room for difference here due to the rules), then it would lose even more energy because it would deform even more.

If the stringbed is softer, the ball will deform less and the stringbed more and the shot will be faster. Deforming the strings is good because they give almost all the energy back they absorb (about 95%). Deforming the ball is bad for power because it loses about 45-50% of the energy it absorbs.
 
One of the most over-looked tools on TWU is the Hittingweight Calculator. Hittingwieght is how heavy the impact location behaves when it is hit. It is the actually amount of weight behind impact. Every location has a different hittingweight.

Hittingweight is a very intuitive way at looking at racquet power. The situation can be thought of as two billiard balls colliding. On ball is the 57 gram ball and the other is a billiard ball of the location's hittingweight. You will find some racquets up at the tip where the hittingweight is very close to the tennis ball's weight. If it were the same, then for a non-swinging racquet, the ball would come to a complete stop and the racquet would fly off instead.

Here is the link:

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/cgi-bin/hittingwtrac.cgi

It is just a little pop up calculator. You can also get there from the TWU home page and clicking "Calculate hittingweight at impact location" on the right side of the screen.

Thanks for pointing this out. I had already used all the TWU tools except this one.
 
one question. what would be harder to swing, a racquet with a determined SW and weight of 350 gr, or a racquet with the same SW and weight of 330 gr?
 
one question. what would be harder to swing, a racquet with a determined SW and weight of 350 gr, or a racquet with the same SW and weight of 330 gr?

That's actually kind of a trick question. Swingweight only measures resistance to motion around an axis--i.e., circular motion. So if you are doing a normal swing that starts pointing back and comes around to meet the ball, then both racquets with the same swingweight will swing the same. The weight doesn't make any difference.

However, if you were swinging in a straight line as in some kind of block or punch, then swingweight is irrelevant and the heavier racquet would punch slower. It's the same if you were just picking the racquet up from the floor in a straight line. The heavier racquet would be more resistant to linear acceleration.

When swinging in a circle, the racquet with more swingweight would be more resistant to angular acceleration horizontal to the court. When swinging vertically as in spin shots, the racquet with the greater spinweight will be more resistant to angular acceleration in that direction.

For most shots, the swing is a composite of horizontal and vertical angular acceleration around axes perpendicular and horizontal (lengthwise) to the court respectively.
 
Hey Professor, please clarify if lowering tension can increase serve speed. There is a discussion about that in another thread.
 
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