Racquet really far away from body when in the forehand unit turn position

zill

zill

Legend
By really far away I mean the arm is almost fully stretched when in the unit turn position. Is that ok? Also any pros who actually does this? I can't think of any. Most seem to have the racquet a medium distance away from body.

Here is an example of the opposite with the racquet really close to the body at unit turn

nishikori forehand unit turn - Google Search

www.google.com
 
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Dragy

Dragy

Legend
Kind of this?
maxresdefault.jpg
 
Dragy

Dragy

Legend
Having arms farther away slows down the initial turn and creates inertia carrying racquet back and around. While you want your unit turn and takeback facilitate placing arm and racquet into proper ready position (back, high, not leaking behind the torso plane), not creating backwards momentum you gonna fight later to redirect into forward swing.
 
zill

zill

Legend
Dragy said:
Ah you mean initial unit turn with both arms on the racquet? Why would you go straight arms here? Agassi has arms as far as you probably would.
agassis-forehand-preparation.jpg
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Yep checked him out already. But was looking for a player with arms even further out then him!
 
zill

zill

Legend
Dragy said:
Having arms farther away slows down the initial turn and creates inertia carrying racquet back and around. While you want your unit turn and takeback facilitate placing arm and racquet into proper ready position (back, high, not leaking behind the torso plane), not creating backwards momentum you gonna fight later to redirect into forward swing.
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Cmon the turn and takeback is done relatively slowly. The inertia wouldn’t affect anything at this stage of the motion.
 
socallefty

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
Wouldn’t you initiate your unit turn early so that you might still be taking some steps running towards the ball after the unit turn? The further your racquet is away from your body while you are moving, it might creates some drag that you don’t need.
 
Dragy

Dragy

Legend
zill said:
Cmon the turn and takeback is done relatively slowly. The inertia wouldn’t affect anything at this stage of the motion.
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Unless you are pressured by time to prep. Anything can work when you are in full control and comfort. It’s tough situations when issues start to pop up.
I’ve seen (and even suffered myself) what I’m talking about. I prefer that arms and racquet are carried comfortably close to the body in a straight manner rather than around. You look for a pro to justify your way of doing it, or why?
 
W

WNB93

Semi-Pro
Tbh, I think it would just tire you out more due to you having to carry the weight of the racket further away from your body. Means your shoulder has to work harder.
After doing it 100 times, I assume it would start to matter.
I think it would also slow you down in a situation where a quick reaction is required. For example a faster serve or something.
 
SystemicAnomaly

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
zill said:
By really far away I mean the arm is almost fully stretched when in the unit turn position. Is that ok? Also any pros who actually does this? I can't think of any. Most seem to have the racquet a medium distance away from body.

Here is an example of the opposite with the racquet really close to the body at unit turn

nishikori forehand unit turn - Google Search

www.google.com
Click to expand...
Why would you want to do this?

Don't you keep your non-dominant hand on (the throat of) the racket for your UT? You should. Can't see why it would not be as simple matter to keep the racket arm from extending too far from the body. I don't understand the need (or the problem).
 
Rubens

Rubens

Hall of Fame
Didn't find any extreme cases, but Tipsarevic's racquet hand is fairly far right at unit turn compared to most.
 
zill

zill

Legend
SystemicAnomaly said:
Why would you want to do this?

Don't you keep your non-dominant hand on (the throat of) the racket for your UT? You should. Can't see why it would not be as simple matter to keep the racket arm from extending too far from the body. I don't understand the need (or the problem).
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Ah good point! I don’t! Never felt comfortable keeping my non dominant hand on the throat of the racquet While turning. I release early then keep turning. I prefer keeping my racquet almost fully stretched outward at the conclusion of my unit turn.
 
zill

zill

Legend
Slowtwitcher said:
Yeah your forahand is starting to sound like it's quite something
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Well I prefer my racquet held really far away from me in the unit turn. I feel it provides structure for the entire stroke.

But it is not a big swing overall. I would say it’s a medium swing forehand. As the racquet tip never goes above my head in the entire stroke.
 
zill

zill

Legend
Del Potro have the racquet quite far away from his body at the unit turn it seems. He is probably the furthest you want to be away from your body. It seems almost like a ‘sideways take back’.

 
Rubens

Rubens

Hall of Fame
For what it's worth, I do the same. I find that it actually shortens my swing because the racquet hand doesn't go far back. And similarly I was wondering if any pro does this. Tipsa was the closest I found. Delpo's is different because he has a big swing.

Here's Tipsa
 
zill

zill

Legend
Rubens said:
For what it's worth, I do the same. I find that it actually shortens my swing because the racquet hand doesn't go far back. And similarly I was wondering if any pro does this. Tipsa was the closest I found. Delpo's is different because he has a big swing.

Here's Tipsa
Click to expand...

Delpotro’s racquet is even more away from his body than Tipsarevic’s.

I have found it shortens my backswing as well. I think it actually did shorten Del po’s backswing also as from the height of his racquet at the unit turn you’d expect a really long swing but it isn’t and why he had done so well at the highest level of the game with his forehand.
 
Rubens

Rubens

Hall of Fame
zill said:
Delpotro’s racquet is even more away from his body than Tipsarevic’s.

I have found it shortens my backswing as well.
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Yea I'm just saying my technique looks more like Tipsa's than Delpo's. Does your technique look more like Delpo's?
 
zill

zill

Legend
Rubens said:
Yea I'm just saying my technique looks more like Tipsa's than Delpo's. Does your technique look more like Delpo's?
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Actually looks more like Tipsarevic’s but even further out from my body. As far out from my body as Del potro’s but tip of my racquet at head level and I have a strong semi western grip.
 
Rubens

Rubens

Hall of Fame
SystemicAnomaly said:
Why would you want to do this?
Click to expand...
I'll chime in with my own answer because I use the same technique.
First, it helps me achieve a _true_ unit turn. When I only point my left arm toward the right fence after unit turn (as in the 'regular' technique; righty), I often do the unintentional 'cheat' of not fully turning the torso to the right. In contrast, when I point both arms to the right fence, I can immediately tell if I'm doing that cheat, because my right hand would then be way further toward the right fence than my left hand.
Secondly, I find that it greatly shortens my takeback. Yet, I can still hit powerful shots because shortly after the unit turn, my _racquet head_ points to the back fence, but the racquet hand doesn't go far back, so it's an efficient takeback. See the Tipsa example.
 
Fintft

Fintft

G.O.A.T.
zill said:
Well I prefer my racquet held really far away from me in the unit turn. I feel it provides structure for the entire stroke.

But it is not a big swing overall. I would say it’s a medium swing forehand. As the racquet tip never goes above my head in the entire stroke.
Click to expand...

Doesn't this also make sure that you create lateral space?

That's what I struggle with sometimes.
 
zill

zill

Legend
Curious said:
I think that’s a good idea as it would help with good spacing with the ball.
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Most players have space between them and the ball but only a handful have it very far away. Am asking for who have it VERY far away. So far only Rublev and Del Potro fit the bill. Tipsarevic just misses the cut off imo.
 
Rubens

Rubens

Hall of Fame
zill said:
Most players have space between them and the ball but only a handful have it very far away. Am asking for who have it VERY far away. So far only Rublev and Del Potro fit the bill. Tipsarevic just misses the cut off imo.
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One important difference between Rublev/Delpo and Tipsa is what happens AFTER the unit turn. Specifically, after the unit turn, Rublev/Delpo bring their extended arm toward the back fence, creating a moderately big arm loop, (Chung does it even more, creating an even bigger loop), whereas Tipsa doesn't do it to the same extent, which is why I find Tipsa's technique easier to time. But I understand this was not your question. Just by curiosity, do you take your dominant arm fully toward the back fence after the unit turn?
 
zill

zill

Legend
Rubens said:
Just by curiosity, do you take your dominant arm fully toward the back fence after the unit turn?
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No the beauty of keeping the racquet far away at unit turn is I get to take the racquet back in a ‘circular manner‘ but not fully backward. I’d say I take my racquet back more like Tipsarevic but I start it at unit turn even further away from my body than him.

You can clearly see the circular nature of the takeback from Del Potro and Rublev’s forehands as well. It works very nicely with the coiling of the torso.

Alghough Chung’s forehand takeback is not that circular.
 
Curious

Curious

G.O.A.T.
zill said:
By really far away I mean the arm is almost fully stretched when in the unit turn position. Is that ok? Also any pros who actually does this? I can't think of any. Most seem to have the racquet a medium distance away from body.

Here is an example of the opposite with the racquet really close to the body at unit turn

nishikori forehand unit turn - Google Search

www.google.com
Click to expand...
I’m a big fan of Nishikori take back these days. Why would you muck around with a different take back, just go straight to where the forward swing should start, behind the hip, right?
Also isn’t Nishikori style more likely to result in an inside out swing path?
I did an internet search to see if others have been interested and came across this thread. @zill of course! :)
 
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zill

zill

Legend
Curious said:
I’m a big fan of Nishikori take back these days. Why would you muck around with a different take back, just go straight to where the forward swing should start, behind the hip, right?
Also isn’t Nishikori style more likely to result in an inside out swing path?
I did an internet search to see if others have been interested and came across this thread. @zill of course! :)
Click to expand...
lol that was before the ‘half way’ of my tennis journey. Was pretty clueless then.

April 2021 was the ‘half way’ mark for me btw.
 
user92626

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Curious said:
I’m a big fan of Nishikori take back these days. Why would you muck around with a different take back, just go straight to where the forward swing should start, behind the hip, right?
Also isn’t Nishikori style more likely to result in an inside out swing path?
I did an internet search to see if others have been interested and came across this thread. @zill of course! :)
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Is that really what you aim to do? Seems like it's not optimal. but I dunno.

Show video?
 
Curious

Curious

G.O.A.T.
user92626 said:
Is that really what you aim to do? Seems like it's not optimal. but I dunno.

Show video?
Click to expand...
Nishikori has a unique and very smart forehand take back in my opinion. I don’t know if there’s anyone else that keep the racket as close to their torso as he does. That helps to get the racket quickly/easily to where the real action starts: his right hip.
 
Dragy

Dragy

Legend
Curious said:
Nishikori has a unique and very smart forehand take back in my opinion. I don’t know if there’s anyone else that keep the racket as close to their torso as he does. That helps to get the racket quickly/easily to where the real action starts: his right hip.
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Are you sure you see what you describe?
maxresdefault.jpg

kei-nishikori-rankingsjpg.jpg
 
Curious

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Dragy said:
I’m ok with it, it may be good. Just tell me: what you see on the pictures as far point of his takeback, is what you mean/expect?
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Not sure if the camera angle is right to show what I see. Closer to the right hip is the way to go anyway for a proper inside out swing path. Btw most players end up getting the hand there. I just think the Nishikori way could be easier to achieve that.
 
Dragy

Dragy

Legend
Curious said:
Not sure if the camera angle is right to show what I see. Closer to the right hip is the way to go anyway for a proper inside out swing path. Btw most players end up getting the hand there. I just think the Nishikori way could be easier to achieve that.
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Just to me he looks having quite conventional far point of takeback. How he gets there is less significant, but may be looked at as well.

How he enters the slot from there (from what the pics show) will look very similar to any other W/SW bent-arm FH. Mostly dropping close to the hip, I agree, but on other shots - high ones, or flattish ones - hand will travel farther away and higher.
 
Curious

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Dragy said:
Just to me he looks having quite conventional far point of takeback. How he gets there is less significant, but may be looked at as well.

How he enters the slot from there (from what the pics show) will look very similar to any other W/SW bent-arm FH. Mostly dropping close to the hip, I agree, but on other shots - high ones, or flattish ones - hand will travel farther away and higher.
Click to expand...
Nothing like explaining in a video, Dragy. :)

 
Curious

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Dragy said:
Just to me he looks having quite conventional far point of takeback.
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Ah I know the cause of confusion now. I meant close to the hip laterally ie when you’re looking from the front or behind. Of course it’s still far from the hip, behind it.
Grant’s video ( from 5:20 ) is very relevant to my point.

 
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user92626

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Curious said:
Nothing like explaining in a video, Dragy. :)

Click to expand...
Told you video would help. Should've listened to me and saved a bunch of posts.

Looking at Nishi, I know what you mean. The guy takes back his racket next to his hip.

Nishi is a freak whose hip is above his belly button. :)

 
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