RacquetTune String Factor for Tourna Big Hitter Silver 17G

#1
I just purchased some Tourna Big Hitter Silver 17G (Not Rough but Smooth version) to try in Hybrids with Gosen OGSM 16G. I can’t seem to locate a RacquetTune String Factor for this string in the RacquetTune DB or out here on Talk Tennis.

I hope this is not a bad sign that my experiment with this setup is not a good idea!!!

Does anyone have a factor they are using and can share?

I know I can measure myself but am not sure I can do it properly.

Thanks!
 
#2
I don't have an RT String Factor number for your string but I have found that the simple method for calculating String Factors works well enough for me.

For a given string.

1/ Select a string to use.
2/ String racquet at desired tension.
3/ Cut string out of racquet, measure the total length of string used in metres, and weigh the string in grams.
4/ Calculate String Factor ... String Factor = Weight (in grams) divided by Total Length Used (in metres)

I've never done it for a Hybrid but I would probably complete the process twice, once for the Main string and once for the Cross string. Once I have the two String Factors, I would probably take the Average value and use that.

Remember, RT is mostly useful for tracking tension loss over time. It is not necessary for the initial RT measurement to be accurate in terms of tension off the Stringing Machine.
 
#3
Thank you very much for your help. I will try that. To get by I used the "pluck method" they have on app and it came back with a string factor of 1.69.

I do use the app to track tension over time. I also use it as a double check after I restring racquets. It is usually pretty close to the tension I set on my machine. 1 pound more... 1 pound less.. right on... 2 pounds more. This type of thing.

The app has allowed me to build hybrids and save them and they come out pretty close but not quite as accurate as far as I can tell as a single string.

I can even save both string1/string2 and string2/string1 hybrids. After my initial skepticism I find it a pretty handy tool.
 
#4
Thank you very much for your help. I will try that. To get by I used the "pluck method" they have on app and it came back with a string factor of 1.69.

I do use the app to track tension over time. I also use it as a double check after I restring racquets. It is usually pretty close to the tension I set on my machine. 1 pound more... 1 pound less.. right on... 2 pounds more. This type of thing.

The app has allowed me to build hybrids and save them and they come out pretty close but not quite as accurate as far as I can tell as a single string.

I can even save both string1/string2 and string2/string1 hybrids. After my initial skepticism I find it a pretty handy tool.
Although I just checked and I don't think the tool varies the string factor for string 1/string 2 and string2/string 1 hybrids as it looks like when you save a racquet it just saves the head size and the string count so I guess I don't need to do that any longer!!!
 
#5
Does not matter if you’re using RacquetTune or an ERT, tension / dynamic tension is not measured but the frequency of the vibrating is. The higher the frequency the higher the tension. The frequency is dependent on the string, tension, length of string, number of strings, frame, size of frame, frame pattern, grommets, string vibrators, temperature of air, string and frame temperature, and accuracy of measuring device. Probably at least a dozen other factor you can throw in for good measure. The best device will account for all the factors the best but still will not be 100 percent accurate.

The best you can do it measure the string bed as soon as it comes off the machine. Then measure all the stages of use and non use ad nauseas. You can then start keeping records, and if you change rackets, string, tension start new spread sheets to keep more records. Or just use the K.I.S.S. method - play.
 
#6
If you have the same racket, strung with the same string, at the same tension, and the frequency varies from one time to the next it is time to look for a new stringer.
 
#7
If you have the same racket, strung with the same string, at the same tension, and the frequency varies from one time to the next it is time to look for a new stringer.
I hope this is posted tongue-in-cheek as this is not a hard and fast rule. There are variances - be they slight - between any two rackets strung identical. And, unless the variances are big, they don't have any impact on play.
 
#8
I hope this is posted tongue-in-cheek as this is not a hard and fast rule. There are variances - be they slight - between any two rackets strung identical. And, unless the variances are big, they don't have any impact on play.
Thank you Rabbit for the support. I am thinking I am getting better at my technique and getting pretty consistent results. I am sure I have a long way to go compared to a lot of the folks out on this forum and I am not the fastest at it but that is not what I am after. I am saving a lot keeping my boy in racquets with string and my friends and I are having fun trying out this and that setup.

I agree. I don't think the variance is that great for example if the desired tension is 53lbs and RacquetTume comes out at 54.5 lbs that is 2.8% variance. Who is to say what the root cause is?.... My Stringing technique, my machine or even variances in RacqeutTune itself. I would be curious as to the tolerances for RacquetTune and impacts due to temperature and background noise on the app.

I have been writing off a +- 2 lbs kind of range with the thought if I see bigger miss something is wrong. Luckily so far I haven't seen a bigger miss when I test racquets after I restring them so I think I am getting better.

One of these days I will figure out how to post a picture of my "stringing setup" so you guys can check it out.
 
#9
If you have the same racket, strung with the same string, at the same tension, and the frequency varies from one time to the next it is time to look for a new stringer.
@Irvin, if I handed you 50 identical racquets and asked you to string them with the identical string with your machine set to a specific Reference Tension - say 54lbs - what variation would you see in the final result when measured straight of the Stringing Machine?

Given your experience with both manual and electronic stringing machines over the years ... would you expect to see a different range of results for each stringing machine if the same test was performed on each of them? What would those ranges be?

FWIW, I have an old Lockout Machine with reasonable Fixed Clamps and a 6 Point mounting system. If I string a twenty racquets (same racquet, same string) at the same Ref. Tension of 54lbs, I see a variation of about +/- 0.5 lbs straight off the stringing machine when measured with RT.

Not that I'm too concerned about the numbers though. More important is the feedback I get from the player. And never seem to get any complaints from them regarding freshly strung racquets.
 
#10
@Irvin, if I handed you 50 identical racquets and asked you to string them with the identical string with your machine set to a specific Reference Tension - say 54lbs - what variation would you see in the final result when measured straight of the Stringing Machine?
50 rackets? I'd run. LOL If I strung 50 rackets off the machine you would not be able to tell the difference in the sound and that would play the same for the player. With an electronic machine though when you clamp the string determines what tension is on the string and that tension could easily vary by 0.5 lbs if the value on the navigator readout is accurate.
Given your experience with both manual and electronic stringing machines over the years ... would you expect to see a different range of results for each stringing machine if the same test was performed on each of them? What would those ranges be?
Assuming you talking about a LO and electronic I would expect the LO to be more accurate. If I tension a string with a LO 10 time in a row I would expect to see the same tension at lockout every time. You wont get that with an electronic.
FWIW, I have an old Lockout Machine with reasonable Fixed Clamps and a 6 Point mounting system. If I string a twenty racquets (same racquet, same string) at the same Ref. Tension of 54lbs, I see a variation of about +/- 0.5 lbs straight off the stringing machine when measured with RT.
I think that's good but that variation comes for how fast you crank and not the tensioner itself.
Not that I'm too concerned about the numbers though. More important is the feedback I get from the player. And never seem to get any complaints from them regarding freshly strung racquets.
That's exactly what you should get.
 
#12
@LOBALOT, sounds like you’ve hit the most important aspect of stringing: keeping your boy on court.

A word of warning from someone who’s been down the rabbit hole, don’t take much of what you read here to heart when it comes to the “scientific” aspect of stringing.

Think more along these lines. Not too long ago, people strung frames with dowels and awls. People were able to play just fine. They didn’t worry about 2 pounds or string deflection or really anything. And without all that “knowledge “ they played better: less to think about and less to blame.
 
#13
@LOBALOT, sounds like you’ve hit the most important aspect of stringing: keeping your boy on court.

A word of warning from someone who’s been down the rabbit hole, don’t take much of what you read here to heart when it comes to the “scientific” aspect of stringing.

Think more along these lines. Not too long ago, people strung frames with dowels and awls. People were able to play just fine. They didn’t worry about 2 pounds or string deflection or really anything. And without all that “knowledge “ they played better: less to think about and less to blame.
Thank you very much for the kinds words and support. I will keep that in mind and it makes a lot of sense!
 
#14
@LOBALOT, sounds like you’ve hit the most important aspect of stringing: keeping your boy on court.

A word of warning from someone who’s been down the rabbit hole, don’t take much of what you read here to heart when it comes to the “scientific” aspect of stringing.

Think more along these lines. Not too long ago, people strung frames with dowels and awls. People were able to play just fine. They didn’t worry about 2 pounds or string deflection or really anything. And without all that “knowledge “ they played better: less to think about and less to blame.
I'm going to approach from a little left field and make this point ...

Players should focus primarily on playing the game and more importantly on winning tennis matches.

However, in order to do that consistently, their approach to the game has to be consistent. Consistent routines, consistent equipment, etc.

So while the PLAYER should not be worrying about 2 pounds of tension or string deflection rates, SOMEONE ELSE IN THEIR CAMP has to.

In spite of what many might think, the Top Players in the world would not be the top players in the world without the support of their Teams. Much the same applies to successful players at any level of the sport.
 
#15
@Karma Tennis, I would agree but only to a point. It depends on the player. I played against a guy who now teaches at McEnroe's academy. He is a local product, and one of the best players to come out of our state. I asked him what string and tension he used. He didn't know. It all depends on the player.

My agreement is that one shouldn't worry about their equipment, my disagreement is that the vast majority of recreational players don't need a camp. 99% of the players on this planet don't need to know who Rod Cross is. All they need is string pulled through their racket in a competent, consistent manner. True, a 3.5 player more often than not needs someone to tell them they don't need Nadal's fully poly set up to play. They need someone to tell them synthetic gut is just fine. I find myself doing that quite often now as NTRP players become more "savvy" about equipment. For those who insist, I relent. :) But 99.9% of the time, they come back and say...you were right.
 
#16
I keep remembering what Brad Gilbert says. People play tennis to have fun. Winning is a lot more fun than losing.

So control the things you can control - and that includes your equipment - to increase you chances of winning so that you have more fun.

I like to see players, and players supporters, actively doing things to improve the quality of their game and the chance of winning matches. I believe there are pieces of equipment that suit a player much better than others. Nothing pleases me more than to see the smile on a player's face when they realise this racquet / string combo is much better than the one they were using previously. It does happen. But it can't happen unless the player or an "interested influential party" is open to the possibility.

As for the player who doesn't know anything about their equipment. No problem as long as there is someone in the background who does. But if things are totally random, then I would argue that even a successful player is limiting his potential success ceiling by being ignorant.

Look at guys like Roger and Rafa. As successful as they are, they continue to experiment with their equipment and test the limits of what they are using. I think that is a great message for the rest of us.
 
#17
Thanks. I am still not clear that the variances of 3% are partially attributable to RacquetTune and perhaps partially attributable to human variability. I doubt highly we (you/I) can get a lot more precise from job to job than that measuring with a tool like RacquetTune or can determine if the variance is actually in the string-bed or in the measuring tool (RacquetTune) itself.

As far as equipment and suiting style of play I agree whole heartedly. We have been working really hard to get my boy into his next stick/string combo that matches his style of play. We aren't there yet and it has been a lengthy process as we are having to adjust weighting have him demo, adjust, and then evaluate with his coaches and string and tension come into play as well. On top of that we have had to take breaks for his high school season/state playoffs and tournaments as we want him to have as stable a situation using his current racquet/string setup when it is needed. A lot of players changing equipment face this.

We have a pretty seasoned team of pros around him that have taken their stab on the tour and know what they are doing. I do my best to help out where I can. I am 100% sure that there are better stringers than me but our family is doing our best to make sure our boy has the best team around him to pursues whatever it is he wants academically and from tennis.

You guys too have been a great resource and we really appreciate your input. I do think on this item though the 2 Lb variation that the tool is producing cannot be verified to be in the string-bed.
 
#18
Thanks. I am still not clear that the variances of 3% are partially attributable to RacquetTune and perhaps partially attributable to human variability. I doubt highly we (you/I) can get a lot more precise from job to job than that measuring with a tool like RacquetTune or can determine if the variance is actually in the string-bed or in the measuring tool (RacquetTune) itself.
I'm not a big fan of RacquetTune being a "go to" for this type of thing. There are just too many variables. One, you're using a smart phone's receiver as an input device, two the distance between the sound and the receiver is variable, three the object used to strike the strings and the method has a number of variables in it and four, you have a human involved between all that.

If you are really concerned about it, buy yourself an ERT. I bought one, and I really don't use it now. (I also deleted RT off my phone.)

The moral of this is: don't worry about 3% (or more) differences in your results. If your boy hasn't complained about his stringer, rejoice in the fact that you're not paying retail for all that string/labor! Once he starts making money playing tennis, you can refer him to @RJYU and he can take care of him. :)
 

Dags

Professional
#19
I am still not clear that the variances of 3% are partially attributable to RacquetTune and perhaps partially attributable to human variability. I doubt highly we (you/I) can get a lot more precise from job to job than that measuring with a tool like RacquetTune or can determine if the variance is actually in the string-bed or in the measuring tool (RacquetTune) itself.
I actually think that the biggest variance in racquetTune is weather. I use a rather generic term because I don't know if it's temperature, atmospheric pressure, or a combination.

Some years ago, I conducted a tension loss experiment where I strung two racquets and then only played with one. I took readings for both every morning and afternoon. General trend was as you'd expect... the anomalies were that some of the individual readings showed a slight *increase* on the previous one.

I mostly use it as a guide. If I get given multiple racquets and string them back-to-back, I expect the readings off the machine to be very similar (for that particular experiment, they were 0.1 apart). Stringing on different days there can be more variance, and I'd only be concerned if they're outside the standard deviation - might be an indication that a clamp was slipping or an early warning to calibrate the tension head.
 
#20
Spring constants are generally a function of some exponenent of [Current Temp/Absolute Temp] in Kelvin. So there is a slight variation due to temperature. When I do back to back [to back] identical frames, I generally stay within ±0.2# of ref tension off the machine. Only time I see ±0.5# is when I have to rush the 3rd frame. But I do use stored/written down factors that I have measured from repeated prior stringings with known strings. Plus I do my measurements in a quiet room.
 
#21
I agree with you both and recall that from college as well.

When I string back-to-back the same racquet/string/setup I don't see much variance.

I use the app to make sure I didn't do something really out of whack stringing and luckily I haven't seen that. I am not really concerned about the variances.

I don't really get a chance to use RacquetTune for monitoring a string job in my racquets with the very soft poly I use as the tension falls off a cliff and I can tell and my boy snaps his stiffer poly so quickly it doesn't get a chance to die. In either instance I just restring.
 
Top