nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Without inflation era Nadal has 14 slams
Rafa as the Clay GOAT ...
- Thread starter RaulRamirez
- Start date
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
The thread is not about it Nadal is behind but by how much.
Many fans think his clay inflation needs to be used against him. That's what the thread is about.
RaulRamirez
Legend
Again, this isn't a Nadal v Djoker thread, certainly not by my design, anyway.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
It's not about if Nadal is behind.
It's about behind whom and how much.
It's about behind whom and how much.
RaulRamirez
Legend
Ultimately, you can post where you want, but I wish you wouldn't hijack this thread with the same old, same old.
Direct it to another thread or to your own.
This thread (again) is about making fair-minded, coherent arguments.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
I am open to feedback as you know. I have changed mind on things in many cases here. Just like your thread about Nole being absolute GOAT.
This is something I felt strongly about for years and finally after 2023 RG when Nole had the absolute record of slams is when we could talk about it.
But you imagine if you are Djokovic fan
Every single record was already with him for years
Most masters
Most weeks at number 1
Most year end number 1
And most big titles including ATP finals which Nadal never had
It's the same old RG which gave Nadal 1 stat where he was barely ahead of Nole. So it's been building up for at least 3 years. It was 2 slams in 2016, 3 in 2018 and 3 in 2020.
Keeping in mind Nole was 11 months (4 slams) younger and was in best possible shape while Nadal was declining for a long time.
We have seen Nole demolish Nadal 7-0 twice.
It was ultimately rg 23 where Nole finally had the last missing piece.
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Dwell
Guest
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
You are sprinting so hard to be the worst poster on the board lol, I hope you win the race
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
I will take a break from this board for a week now. I hope the discussions will be better.You are sprinting so hard to be the worst poster on the board lol, I hope you win the race
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Don’t take a break, just have a bit more respect for a guy with 22 slams, it shouldn’t be that hard.
Agassi had a congenital back issue all his life - spondylolisthesis
But I agree that back pain wasn’t a big hindrance until his 30s and he can’t blame injuries for losing to Pete, who was simply the better player.
GoatNo1
Hall of Fame
everything you said is true!
rafa IS the clay GOAT!
being clay GOAT doesn't automatically disqualify him from overall GOAThood but it doesn't automatically give him it either!
He is insanely better at CC than any other player in history! at the same time he is significantly worse on 2 other surfaces than sampras, fed and nole! does his CC + resume make up for the other thing he lacks? in regards to sampras probably it does! in regards to fed it's much harder to say. and in regard to nole, there is not the slightest chance that it does!
rafa IS the clay GOAT!
being clay GOAT doesn't automatically disqualify him from overall GOAThood but it doesn't automatically give him it either!
He is insanely better at CC than any other player in history! at the same time he is significantly worse on 2 other surfaces than sampras, fed and nole! does his CC + resume make up for the other thing he lacks? in regards to sampras probably it does! in regards to fed it's much harder to say. and in regard to nole, there is not the slightest chance that it does!
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Succinct
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
All of the big 3 are beneficiaries of both inflation and homogenization, welcome to the program. I’m not a glory hunter and can admit it easily; too bad you can’t say the same.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
This is pathetic
Federer was 35 in 2016 and you know that Djokovic was just 29.
Why should Djokovic get blame of inflation. He was and still is near physical peak.
While fed had knee surgeries and still beat the tour without Djokovic in it. He took benefit of inflation.
There is no single player who caused issues to Djokovic between 2011/2016 and there isn't one today.
For Federer he had issues with Nadal from match 1 and couldn't beat Djokovic for 5 years and needed Djokovic OUT to finally win a slam again.
There are differences.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
29 is far from physical decline in tennis. You can cry inflation as much as you want.
Wawrinka won first slam at 28 or 29.
Most players have their best season post 25 now.
If anyone took benefit of inflation is was Roger.
Nole is just now as old as fed was in AO 2018. In USO 2023 djokovic is still a few months younger than fed 2018.
You are just sad that it was Djokovic who won so many slams after age 29 and not fed. Fed had 5 year no slams.
It was similar for Djokovic when he was younger. Don't compare Nole to Roger. One was in his late 20s early 30s while other in late 30s after 2016.
And yes homogenization exists no one disagrees. Still there are two guys who won 16 AO and 16 Wimby and another guy who won 14 RG. There are differences.
Wawrinka won first slam at 28 or 29.
Most players have their best season post 25 now.
If anyone took benefit of inflation is was Roger.
Nole is just now as old as fed was in AO 2018. In USO 2023 djokovic is still a few months younger than fed 2018.
You are just sad that it was Djokovic who won so many slams after age 29 and not fed. Fed had 5 year no slams.
It was similar for Djokovic when he was younger. Don't compare Nole to Roger. One was in his late 20s early 30s while other in late 30s after 2016.
And yes homogenization exists no one disagrees. Still there are two guys who won 16 AO and 16 Wimby and another guy who won 14 RG. There are differences.
ryushen21
Legend
Please consider making that break permanent. Since we're all just a bunch of miscreants in your eyes, you shouldn't want to return.
TRUE, but Rafa was not as good on hard or grass courts as, Roger and Novak.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
If homogenization was to such extent then maybe this thread would never exist. But homogenization didn't make clay into grass. Or vice versa. Nadal has just 2 Wimbledons and fed just 1 RG. In the end there were still many differences. The slam count overall is high for big 3 for homogenization though.
RaulRamirez
Legend
That was the quickest week's break in the history of mankind!
Dude...please...make your own _____ threads -- take this same-old, same-old elsewhere.
I know that subtopics happen, but this was not even close to the theme and the spirit of this one.
Nothing in my OP was remotely anti-Novak, or Fed or the Easter Bunny, etc, or even a goat thread.
There ae zillions of other threads, millions of them yours, or start a new one.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
I understand the spirit of this thread. You are saying that calling Nadal as ONLY clay goat is same as saying nothing since we know he is clay GOAT but it's held against him in overall GOAT.
It's not held against him.
We only hold the things that he didn't accomplish against him. I don't agree with the notion of only slam count is everything. I hope you don't as well. There are 100s of different statistics we should check. And he is behind 2 guys in most of those categories.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
’Rafa is the clay GOAT’ and ‘Rafa is not the overall GOAT’ are two unrelated sentences that don’t have any connection to each other.
The first sentence is said because Nadal is the greatest ever player on clay. The second sentence is said because Djokovic is the greatest ever player to play tennis with the Slam record, Masters record, ATP Finals record, Big titles record, Weeks at #1 record (twice as much almost than Nadal), YE#1 record, highest career match-winning %, Head-to-head edge and a NCYGS streak to back it up. Nadal also has huge holes in his resume in terms of how he fails to succeed on fast, indoor courts that are low-bouncing and even his grass record is good only early in his career - however, he could have still been the GOAT with his overall record if Djokovic didn’t win more than him overall.
The first sentence is said because Nadal is the greatest ever player on clay. The second sentence is said because Djokovic is the greatest ever player to play tennis with the Slam record, Masters record, ATP Finals record, Big titles record, Weeks at #1 record (twice as much almost than Nadal), YE#1 record, highest career match-winning %, Head-to-head edge and a NCYGS streak to back it up. Nadal also has huge holes in his resume in terms of how he fails to succeed on fast, indoor courts that are low-bouncing and even his grass record is good only early in his career - however, he could have still been the GOAT with his overall record if Djokovic didn’t win more than him overall.
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
Agreed, your glory hunting is both pathetic and embarrassing
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
A player who wins a million times the same slam is NOT worse than a player who wins 4 slams, each on a different surface. That being said, Nole is the better player.
Who is ahead of Djokovic on clay, other than Nadal? Novak has won 3 RG, 6-Rome, 3- Madrid and 2 MC. Who, other than Rafa has done better on clay, in the open era?
RaulRamirez
Legend
I would agree with that, but with some extra consideration given for special achievements: a true Grand Slam and to a slightly lesser extent, the Nole (ncygs) Slam, and just a little for career slams.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Rome is not same as RG. It's Nadal and then Borg and then everyone else. And even if Nole is third, he is in similar category as Lendl and Wilander and not at all in Borg territory.
ryushen21
Legend
I thought you were taking a break. If you are, I don't think you understand what "taking a break" means.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
I am not. Micheal said just respect Rafa more. I am good with that.
ryushen21
Legend
How selfless of you...
The following data is official.
Name AO RG WB UO Career W %
Feder 87.2 81.1 88.2 86.4
Nadal 82.8 97.4 82.9 84.8
Djoko 91.8 85.2 89.3 87.1
At RG, Nadal is way ahead of everyone else. But at the other slams, Djokovic and Federer are ahead of Nadal. Nadal is clay GOAT, and clay only.
Rest my case!
Name AO RG WB UO Career W %
Feder 87.2 81.1 88.2 86.4
Nadal 82.8 97.4 82.9 84.8
Djoko 91.8 85.2 89.3 87.1
At RG, Nadal is way ahead of everyone else. But at the other slams, Djokovic and Federer are ahead of Nadal. Nadal is clay GOAT, and clay only.
Rest my case!
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Deleted member 758560
Guest
sad abmk disappeared from forum and foster too..i miss em..
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Forced out after repeated heartbreaks. Good riddance.
CoolCoolCool
Hall of Fame
He's still here, he just chooses not to post.
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Deleted member 758560
Guest
i know, not visiting place exactly belongs to the category of disappearing too.. in my eyes
