nadalfan2013
Professional
Wow you really do suck in math. LOL Look the bottom line is, Federer is the Most Successful of All-time (quantity alone) but Rafa is the Greatest of All-time (quantity/quality combined). It's really simple.
Rafa held slams on all 3 surfaces TWICE
- Thread starter nadalfan2013
- Start date
Wow you really do suck in math. LOL Look the bottom line is, Federer is the Most Successful of All-time (quantity alone) but Rafa is the Greatest of All-time (quantity/quality combined). It's really simple.
Rafa the King
Hall of Fame
@nadalfan2013 and @KINGROGER can't you just agree to the fact that one considers Rafa GOAT and the other Roger, but that both of you see both players in your top 3 ever?
Not really. If you extrapolated precisely to 15 you would need deicmal points. I used an estimation.
Nah. Rafa blew his shot at being GOAT when he lost to mugs like Murray x2, Tsonga, Ferrer x2, Blake, Youzny x2, washed up Hewitt, Gonzalez, Rosol, Darcy, Kyrgios, Brown etc at slams. Injuries didn't cost him 20+, losing to these pigeons/mugs/clowns did.
Far too many embarrassing defeats. 2 losses to Murray to cost him CYGS + 4 in a row is unacceptable. Same as Djokovic.
nadalfan2013
Professional
You really are using Murray as an example to put down Rafa and Djokovic? The same Murray who beat Federer 11 times including the AO and the biggest match of Federer's career, the Olympics Gold medal? Go have a seat.
Federer lost to Seppi, Robredo, Gulbis, Stakhovsky, etc. and don't get me started on his early losses in his career to nobodies. When Rafa was winning slams at a young age, Federer was losing to nobodies at the same age. Go get a clue. It all becomes equal at the end.
Rafa the King
Hall of Fame
Roger the most succesful, Rafa the greatest
Roger the most admired, Rafa the most loved
Roger the most admired, Rafa the most loved
Those losses were all as a Grandad, and again, broken back Grandad Fed lost in 5 to peak Murray at the AO yes. Fed peaked at a later age and once he did he had zero embarrassing slam defeats.
Nadal losing to Murray twice at a slam during his peak is embarrassing, same as Djokovic losing twice in finals to such a mug. As well as all the other embarrassing defeats Nadal had, have cost him his chance at being GOAT... unless he makes a miraculous turn around in form and wins more GS titles.
I'm not a troll at all but Olympic gold is worth far more than the WTF. I know for a fact the players don't really care about it. If they aren't in Davis cup final then the top players have the view they are in it to win it as well as the attraction of the astonishing pay cheque but you won't see players crying at the wtf when they lose as Djokovic and Deloitte have done at the olympics .2 of those non clay wins were vs grandad Fed in 2012 and 2014 so he has a huge age advantage there.
Rafa's peak AO level in 09 is the highest plexicushion level ever and he has 2 USO titles so is no mug there. So Fedavic have no advantage there over Nadal when all are capable on the surface.
Quite embarrassing you want to mention grass as some kind of Nadal weakness, considering his excellent 06-10 performances there.
I don't need to open my eyes to anythingFed is the GOAT and will remain so until surpassed. Nadal is top 3 though for sure.
Only in the eyes of deluded trolls like yourself is an Olympics singles gold more significant than WTF.
nadalfan2013
Professional
Anyways, KingRoger, stop changing the subject. This thread is about how Rafa held slams on all 3 surfaces and did it two separate times. Nobody else has ever done it. Stop talking about other stuff and being a troll.
Actually it was someone else who brought up the irrelevant H2H statistic. And I don't troll, you do, albeit hilariously sometimes mate
Also after 2010 AO Fed held the FO, W and AO on 3 different surfaces
nadalfan2013
Professional
Actually it was someone else who brought up the irrelevant H2H statistic. And I don't troll, you do, albeit hilariously sometimes mate
Also after 2010 AO Fed held the FO, W and AO on 3 different surfaces
Yeah ONCE... when Rafa got injured at the 2009 RG and missed the 2009 WB where he was defending champion. Vulterer as usual took advantage
Rafa did it TWICE with Federer playing.
Yeah ONCE... when Rafa got injured at the 2009 RG and missed the 2009 WB where he was defending champion. Vulterer as usual took advantage
Rafa did it TWICE with Federer playing.
Rafa got owned at 09 FO more like. And Fed would've won Wimbledon regardless.
You can say the same thing about Nadal's 2010 wins being vs weak draws, with Fed crashing out early at both FO/W, and choking MPs to Djokovic at USO.
Then again Rafa should've had a CYGS in 2010, but lost to Murray at the AO
cockneyDjoker
Hall of Fame
Of course you're a troll. You think Nadal is greater than Djokovic at US open even though Novak has an extra 4 finals
cockneyDjoker
Hall of Fame
The only thing the c**k can conclude here is that KINGROGER, nadalfan2013 and punterland are all trolls 
S'in-net
Semi-Pro
However; Nadal has never done The Calendar Year Hardcourt Slam-Double : Winning hardcourt MelB & USO in the same year
It's only been done six times in the history :
Once by Wilander (first player ever to do it)
Twice by Djokovic
Three times by Federer (only player to do it twice in a row)
Nadal never did it...Sampras failed...Agassi also dash-oned it...Becker took a pass...Lendl also gave it a miss...and everyone else never doubled up
Nadal has also never held USO-MelB BACK-TO-BACK on hardcourt...
It's only been done eight times in the history :
Twice by Sampras (first player ever to do it and the first player to do it twice)
Twice by Agassi
Twice by Federer (only player to do it twice in a row)
Twice by Djokovic (last player to do it)
Out of ALL those players :
Only Federer and Djokovic have done The Calendar Year Hardcourt Slam-Double and the Hardcourt Slam-Double Back-to-Back...
S'in-net
Semi-Pro
Nadal has never held MelB (hardcourt) and USO (hardcourt) with RG (despite nine possible attempts)
Neither has Federer...
Only three players, ever, have held MelB (hardcourt) and USO (hardcourt) with RG :
Wilander
Agassi
Djokovic (plus AELTC for the lot -- NCYGS -- first player ever three surfaces)
All three players have similar styles to Nadal, but Nadal never acheived this
nadalfan2013
Professional
Rafa sweeped the whole summer hardcourt season in 2013 winning Canada, Cincinnati and the US Open. That's an even more special and bigger accomplishment.
S'in-net
Semi-Pro
Djokovic/Nadal/Federer/Sampras : CYGS/NCYGS/Career Grand Slam/Calender Year Clay Slam/Career Clay Slam/
Season Opening Hard Court Hatrick (AUS/IW/Miami)/US Summer Hardcourt Hatrick (Canada/Cincinnati/USO) /Year End Indoor Court Hatrick (Shanghai/Paris/WTF) :-
Djokovic :
CYGS = 0
NCYGS = +1 (+ one close miss by 2 sets)
Career Grand Slam = achieved = +1
Calendar Year Clay Slam = 0
Career Clay Slam = achieved = +1
Season Opening Hard Court Hatrick (AUS/IW/Miami) = +3 (2011-2015-2016)
US Summer Hardcourt Hatrick (Canada/Cincinnati/USO) = 0
Year End Indoor Court Hatrick (Shanghai/Paris/WTF) = +2 (2013-2015)
TOTAL = PLUS EIGHT
Nadal :
CYGS = 0
NCYGS = 0 (one close miss, by 3 matches)
Career Grand Slam = achieved = +1
Calendar Year Clay Slam = +1 (2010)
Career Clay Slam = achieved = +1
Season Opening Hard Court Hatrick (AUS/IW/Miami) = 0
US Summer Hardcourt Hatrick (Canada/Cincinnati/USO) = +1 (2013)
Year End Indoor Court Hatrick (Shanghai/Paris/WTF) = 0
TOTAL = PLUS FOUR
Federer :
CYGS = 0
NCYGS = 0 (two close misses, by 2 sets, X 2)
Career Grand Slam = achieved = +1
Calendar Year Clay Slam = 0
Career Clay Slam = 0
Season Opening Hard Court Hatrick (AUS/IW/Miami) = +1 (2006)
US Summer Hardcourt Hatrick (Canada/Cincinnati/USO) = 0
Year End Indoor Court Hatrick (Shanghai/Paris/WTF) = 0
TOTAL = PLUS TWO
Sampras :
CYGS = 0
NCYGS = 0 (one close miss, by 3 matches)
Career Grand Slam = 0
Calendar Year Clay Slam = 0
Career Clay Slam = 0
Season Opening Hard Court Hatrick (AUS/IW/Miami) = +1 (1994)
US Summer Hardcourt Hatrick (Canada/Cincinnati/USO) = 0
Year End Indoor Court Hatrick (Shanghai/Paris/WTF) = 0
TOTAL = PLUS ONE
Novak is ahead...Even if you add the other three together...
Having said that; the Calendar Year Clay Slam, is by a long way the hardest Masters/Slam combo because it involves four tournaments whereas the other Masters/Slam or Masters/WTF combos involve three tournaments
Nadal is the only player in the Open Era to achieve The Calendar Year Clay Slam and one of only four players in the Open Era to have completed The Career Clay Slam :
Vilas/Lendl/Nadal/Djokovic
The US Summer Hardcourt Hatrick has only been achieved three times by : Rafter in 1998, Roddick in 2003, and Nadal, (again), in 2013
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...am-win-loss-ratios-v-top-10-opponents.574740/
Rafa the King
Hall of Fame
All those tears Rafa cost you, all those yummy tears which turned you into a sour hater. The effect was permanent I see.
Being a better loser doesn't make one have a better record.Of course you're a troll. You think Nadal is greater than Djokovic at US open even though Novak has an extra 4 finals
I can only assume when u were a child when your parents said first is worst, second is best third the one with the hairy chest , you took it all way too much to heart!
Tennease
Legend
Even with steroid injections and illegal coachings, he still can't win WTF.
That shows how hard it is to win WTF. Time violations, illegal coaching, MTOs, will not help Nedall to win WTF, simply because he is not skilled enough to play indoor tennis. Not a complete player.
That shows how hard it is to win WTF. Time violations, illegal coaching, MTOs, will not help Nedall to win WTF, simply because he is not skilled enough to play indoor tennis. Not a complete player.
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RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
No, winning 6 matches to get to the final is better than winning 2 and then losing.
It is just a matter of looking at it. Even Nadal and Federer have highlighted finals as an important achievement in pressconferences and Nadal even said Federer is one of the best clay courters with this 5 FO finals.
Sry greek but you are looking at things from armchair critic views
S'in-net
Semi-Pro
No, winning 6 matches to get to the final is better than winning 2 and then losing.
It is just a matter of looking at it. Even Nadal and Federer have highlighted finals as an important achievement in pressconferences and Nadal even said Federer is one of the best clay courters with this 5 FO finals.
Sry greek but you are looking at things from armchair critic views
Grand Slam Finals Records All Time :
1) Federer 27 Finals (Only player in the history to make all GS finals at least 5 times each)
2) Djokovic 21 Finals (Only second player in the history, along with Federer, to make all GS finals at least 4 times each)
3) Nadal 20 Finals
4) Lendl 19 Finals
5) Sampras 18 Finals
Agree with you
It also makes your GS match average better
Only downside is that main rivals will have more wins over you
because you showed up more times deep; not just when you were lifting the cup (otherwize going shallow)...
MLRoy
Hall of Fame
I just "liked" it for you.
I honestly think his brain is handicapping him, not his body. He won't go for his serve and forehand, his two biggest weapons. And his shot selection socks out loud. Coming to the net with a nothing forehand down-the-line, leaving most of the court open makes zero sense, and he's been doing that for the last year or two. I don't get it. Uncle Toni ISN'T coaching him to do that, either.
You really should have a talk with him.
cockneyDjoker
Hall of Fame
You have to be a complete imbecile to think that a bunch of early losses is better than 5 finals.
5 finals>>>>>>>>>>>1 final and a bunch of random early losses
Deal with it. Djokovic has a better record than Nadal at US open
Rafa the King
Hall of Fame
You have to be a complete imbecile to think that a bunch of early losses is better than 5 finals.
5 finals>>>>>>>>>>>1 final and a bunch of random early losses
Deal with it. Djokovic has a better record than Nadal at US open
And you are a complete imbecile to think that Nole will end up as the GOAT. Pretty sure there are gonna be many who agree with what punterlad said, while pretty sure not many think Djokovic will end up GOAT.
cockneyDjoker
Hall of Fame
You can keep deluding yourself but the fact is at 2-2 wins a piece the guy with the better record is the one who won the most finals and that's nadal 2-1 . Pure fAct u can't change history. Similarly everyone has McEnroe ahead of Becker in terms of Wimbledon champions. Facts are factsYou have to be a complete imbecile to think that a bunch of early losses is better than 5 finals.
5 finals>>>>>>>>>>>1 final and a bunch of random early losses
Deal with it. Djokovic has a better record than Nadal at US open
NatF
Bionic Poster
Well federer is cryptic on this point as I've heard him say in the past when he lost a semi final that it's better than losing the final!!!No, winning 6 matches to get to the final is better than winning 2 and then losing.
It is just a matter of looking at it. Even Nadal and Federer have highlighted finals as an important achievement in pressconferences and Nadal even said Federer is one of the best clay courters with this 5 FO finals.
Sry greek but you are looking at things from armchair critic views
I accept nadal and Djokovic both value getting to a final. But the likes of Becker and Sampras placed no value at all being runner up.
Perhaps it boils down to ego. I have a huge ego so for me I'd rather have nadals USO record than djokovics . For instance murrays AO record would be something I would want to forget.
Between them nadal is 2-1 up.If they both have two titles how can Nadal have won more finals?
cockneyDjoker
Hall of Fame
Yes facts are facts and the FACT is that Novak has made 4 more USO finals than Nadal
Are you honestly telling me you'd rather have a bunch of early exits to mugs rather than getting to the final
Novak has only ever lost to his rivals at the USO where Nadal has lost to all=time greats like Fognini and Pouille
Anyone that thinks early losses to mugs is better than losing finals to great players is seriously either trolling or has some mental issues
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
No they don't.
nadalfan2013
Professional
Stick to the topic please. If some of you guys want to praise Djokovic for his 2-5 USO final record then create another thread for him. Thank you.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
It's not necessarily that anyone's praising him, it's simply being stated that his USO record is better than Nadal's. Which it is.
nadalfan2013
Professional
Whether it is or not has nothing to do with this thread.
Rafa the King
Hall of Fame
Okay guys, opinions are divided yet agaon whether it's better to constantly lose against your arch rivals or to lose to journeymen, but win when at your best.
Let's get back to the topic.
Let's get back to the topic.
You have just shown u have never played or done anything competitive.Yes facts are facts and the FACT is that Novak has made 4 more USO finals than Nadal
Are you honestly telling me you'd rather have a bunch of early exits to mugs rather than getting to the final
Novak has only ever lost to his rivals at the USO where Nadal has lost to all=time greats like Fognini and Pouille
Anyone that thinks early losses to mugs is better than losing finals to great players is seriously either trolling or has some mental issues
If I had a career great rival If I had to lose a match (I'd never want to lose obviously) I would say the lesser evil was losing to the person I had no rivalry with ! That surely is the attitude of any truly competitive person .
Also nadals losses to fogini and pouille are at a time when he was not even half the player he was. The point is peak nadal didn't repeatedly choke USO finals.
I can guarantee that If bragging rights are tonne had between nadal and Djokovic at USO it's nadal who wins. I'd much prefer to sit there saying both my wins were by virtue of beating you oout of three we played ! Pure satisfaction
It's not though! McEnroe is considered high on the list of Wimbledon champions than Becker he comes in after Borg and ahead of Becker .
Similarly nadal comes in after federer on the list of current active players as most successful at USO! I've lost count of the number of times I've seen American commentators state federer and nadal, the two most successful players at the event currently playing.
Surely they can't all be anti-Djokovic?
They do as the BBC had a poll one day during the event.
1. Federer
2. Sampras
3. Borg
4. McEnroe
5. Becker
6. Edberg
7. Connors
At the time Djokovic hadn't won his third.
The problem on this site is too many people are obsessed trying to discredit nadal as nobody thought he would achieve a career golden slam and have 14 majors. His haters simply cannot deal with it and never will be able to.
ghostofMecir
Legend
Here's the Etc. Etc. Etc. part :
Just for a moment subtract Federer off of his weakest grand slam surface (clay), not knocking clay here
just seeing how Federer's greatest rivals perform against him in grand slams minus his weakest surface
And you have this :
Eight losses to Djokovic at all the other GS's
Four losses to Nadal at all the other GS's
Reverse the performance zone and now keep Federer's favourite grand slam surface (grass)
whilst subtracting all the other surfaces to see how Federer's greatest rivals perform against him in grand slams, on Federer's strongest surface
And you have this :
Two losses to Djokovic at his favourite surface slam (the only player to have beaten Federer twice at AELTC)
One loss to Nadal...
Now go to the middle ground and only keep all grand slams played on hard court surfaces
to see how Federer's greatest rivals perform against him, in grand slams, on hard court surfaces
And you have this :
Six losses to Djokovic
Three losses to Nadal
Now compare the big three in finals aggregated against each other :
Nadal leads Federer in finals 14/7
Djokovic leads Federer in finals 11/6 (+ a withdrawal)
Djokovic leads Nadal in finals 14/10
Overall :
Djokovic 25/16 = + 9 (+ a withdrawal)
Nadal 24/21 = + 3
Federer 13/25 = - 12
+ 9 Djokovic is symbolic : (if you put Nadal/Federer together you get - 9)
This doesn't take into account that Federer is in a generation before the Djoko/Nadal one. Not only that, Nadal and Djoko happen to be among the 5 or 6 greatest players ever. Which player would have winning records against the NEXT generation AND against ALL ALL time greats?
Tennease
Legend
'sweeped' lol
Tennease
Legend
The greatest cheater who never won WTF
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Federer won 5 consecutive Wimbledons and US Opens. Nobody will ever come close to that.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Oh the irony.
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