Rafa Nadal -the greatest outdoor tennis player in history?

[zill]

Nah, Agassi

Ok but in terms of modern strokes and a semi western forehand grip though. Agassi’s strokes look a bit old school. It’s like in between old school and modern school.

 

[mehdimike]

I expect you to give the full information about the NA Hard Court season if you mention it in your post, and that includes the Cincinnati titles....you're selective presentation of results is just that, selective....so allow me to show you the full title haul for the NA season for all the big three.

USO
Federer 5
Nadal 4
Djokovic 3

Canada
Nadal 5
Djokovic 4
Federer 2

Cincinnati
Federer 7
Djokovic 2
Nadal 1

All in all, it's weird that Rafa had more success in NA season than Novak, though they have produced almost similar stats.

 

[clayqueen]

All in all, it's weird that Rafa had more success in NA season than Novak, though they have produced almost similar stats.

By the autumn, the clay season along with wear and tear on his body due to the effects of his congenital foot problem he is usually physically compromised that's why he hasn't done so well or played so much in the autumn. Winning 1x500, 2xM1000 & 1xGS in the space of 2 months is bound to take its toll.

 

[clayqueen]

I expect you to give the full information about the NA Hard Court season if you mention it in your post, and that includes the Cincinnati titles....you're selective presentation of results is just that, selective....so allow me to show you the full title haul for the NA season for all the big three.

USO
Federer 5
Nadal 4
Djokovic 3

Canada
Nadal 5
Djokovic 4
Federer 2

Cincinnati
Federer 7
Djokovic 2
Nadal 1

No one who is not good on hardcourt would win 5 Canadian titles, 4 USO titles and the American Hard Court Swing.

 

[PilotPete]

Sure, but is he even top 10 once clay is removed? Why remove clay you ask? To demonstrate skew? What's important about skew? To demonstrate that tennis encompasses all surfaces.

 

[clayqueen]

I expect you to give the full information about the NA Hard Court season if you mention it in your post, and that includes the Cincinnati titles....you're selective presentation of results is just that, selective....so allow me to show you the full title haul for the NA season for all the big three.

USO
Federer 5
Nadal 4
Djokovic 3

Canada
Nadal 5
Djokovic 4
Federer 2

Cincinnati
Federer 7
Djokovic 2
Nadal 1

Cincinnati
Federer - won 7 out of 17
Djokovic - won 2 out of 14
Nadal - won 1 out of 12

Nothing to see here.

 

[clayqueen]

Sure, but is he even top 10 once clay is removed? Why remove clay you ask? To demonstrate skew? What's important about skew? To demonstrate that tennis encompasses all surfaces.

No one is top 10, apart from Rafa, if you only use clay in their resumé.

 

[PilotPete]

No one is top 10, apart from Rafa, if you only use clay in their resumé.

Agreed, Nadal is clay GOAT.

 

[RF-18]

Oh so now it's covid slams...

 

[Spencer Gore]

Are these figures correct?

Most Outdoor Titles

1. Records
3. Most Titles
5. Most Outdoor Titles

Active players
20

Rank	Country	Name	Outdoor Titles
1	ESP	Rafael Nadal	86
2	SUI	Roger Federer	77
3	SRB	Novak Djokovic	72
4	ARG	Guillermo Vilas	55
5	USA	Jimmy Connors	53
6	USA	Ivan Lendl	52
7	USA	Andre Agassi	48
8	AUT	Thomas Muster	43
9	AUS	Rod Laver	42
9	ROU	Ilie Nastase	42
9	SWE	Bjorn Borg	42
12	USA	Pete Sampras	41

 

[skip1969]

Don't worry Nadal fanboys and girls . . . just one more week til we crown a new USO champion, and then you guys can take a much-needed break. It must be hard, hard work trying to keep your boy relevant when he ain't even playing.

After the USO, chill, get out a little, have some fun. We'll see you back at the YECs . . . when you can continue the spin campaign for your boy being GOAT.

 

[Spencer Gore]

Don't worry Nadal fanboys and girls . . . just one more week til we crown a new USO champion, and then you guys can take a much-needed break. It must be hard, hard work trying to keep your boy relevant when he ain't even playing.

After the USO, chill, get out a little, have some fun. We'll see you back at the YECs . . . when you can continue the spin campaign for your boy being GOAT.

Who is claiming he is goat? The claim here is he is the most successful outdoor tennis player in history.

 

[Sunny014]

Are these figures correct?

Most Outdoor Titles

1. Records
2. 
   
3. Most Titles
4. 
   
5. Most Outdoor Titles

Active players
20

Rank	Country	Name	Outdoor Titles
1	ESP	Rafael Nadal	86
2	SUI	Roger Federer	77
3	SRB	Novak Djokovic	72
4	ARG	Guillermo Vilas	55
5	USA	Jimmy Connors	53
6	USA	Ivan Lendl	52
7	USA	Andre Agassi	48
8	AUT	Thomas Muster	43
9	AUS	Rod Laver	42
9	ROU	Ilie Nastase	42
9	SWE	Bjorn Borg	42
12	USA	Pete Sampras	41

61 of those 86 titles on clay

 

[Spencer Gore]

61 of those 86 titles on clay

Clay and grass were the two slam surfaces for the majority of the 20th century. Hard courts are a recent addition. If you have the outdoor record across all surfaces it really does mean you've mastered the game that the legends of the past mastered.

Indoor tennis is an inferior version of the sport. Still hugely enjoyable, but not quite the real thing.

 

[Sunny014]

Clay and grass were the two slam surfaces for the majority of the 20th century. Hard courts are a recent addition. If you have the outdoor record across all surfaces it really does mean you've mastered the game that the legends of the past mastered.

Indoor tennis is an inferior version of the sport. Still hugely enjoyable, but not quite the real thing.

Why isn't indoor the real thing?

Because Nadal is clueless on it?

 

[Spencer Gore]

Why isn't indoor the real thing?

Because Nadal is clueless on it?

He's definitely much weaker indoors. It's not quite the real thing for the same reason indoor golf wouldn't be. It was designed as an outdoor sport.

 

[MeatTornado]

Pure my butt! The fraud doesn't even play on real clay. He dominates crushed brick!

 

[Sunny014]

He's definitely much weaker indoors. It's not quite the real thing for the same reason indoor golf wouldn't be. It was designed as an outdoor sport.

Traditionally you might be right.

However not in terms of ability, when other GOAT candidates like Fed, Sampras and Novak are excellent indoors in low bounce then Nadal being so weak is a question mark.

I guess that is a price to pay for being the GOAT on clay/super high bounce conditions, nature maybe doesn't allow someone to be so good at both the extreme ends of bounce....

 

[brc444]

Wasn’t tennis designed to be played with wood racquets and what does that do to the pure tennis slam count?

 

[Spencer Gore]

Wasn’t tennis designed to be played with wood racquets and what does that do to the pure tennis slam count?

It was. And they should never have allowed it to change.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

But the majority will still carry the vote and they don't agree with you.

What 'vote'? I don't care. Your argument from popularity does little to sway my interpretation of his antics.

 

[Bartelby]

It was also designed as lawn tennis, so do we just abolish tennis not played on grass?

It was. And they should never have allowed it to change.

Wasn’t tennis designed to be played with wood racquets and what does that do to the pure tennis slam count?

 

[ghostofMecir]

Nadal is epic AF

Who’s more epic—the Nature Boy or Rafa?

 

[MichaelNadal]

Who’s more epic—the Nature Boy or Rafa?

Don't do that to me, lol

 

[Bartelby]

If we abolish or otherwise devalue tennis not played on grass, for which it was designed, where does that leave Nadal?

 

[flanker2000fr]

It is often forgotten or deliberately overlooked, but Nadal is the most successful tennis player in outdoor conditions in the history of the game. He has more outdoor Open Era titles than any other player and is the only player in the entire history of the sport to win his non-Covid slam titles in outdoor conditions (the others all won one or more non-Covid titles under closed roofs).

Given that the games was created to be an outdoor sport (in contrast to real tennis), there is a real argument for Nadal being the purest tennis champion in history.

There are two ways to answer to this:

- either that tennis was derived from the French Jeu de Paume, which was meant to be played indoor
- or that tennis was indeed created by the English, to be played outdoor on grass

On neither counts would he be anywhere close to be the purest / best player in tennis history.

 

[flanker2000fr]

Clay and grass were the two slam surfaces for the majority of the 20th century. Hard courts are a recent addition. If you have the outdoor record across all surfaces it really does mean you've mastered the game that the legends of the past mastered.

Indoor tennis is an inferior version of the sport. Still hugely enjoyable, but not quite the real thing.

Says who?

 

[MichaelNadal]

If we abolish or otherwise devalue tennis not played on grass, for which it was designed, where does that leave Nadal?

If if if!!! If Nadal wasn't born to ruin so many Sundays

 

[tudwell]

He has more outdoor Open Era titles than any other player and is the only player in the entire history of the sport to win his non-Covid slam titles in outdoor conditions (the others all won one or more non-Covid titles under closed roofs).

That… sounds incorrect.

 

[SonnyT]

The greatest (Paris) outdoor tennis player in history.