Rafa on Andy Murray... [may be this should decide TTW debates on Andy's ATG status?!]

[JustMy2Cents]

"He had a lot of finals. He was an amazing player that probably played in a difficult moment of the history of tennis, because, he shared the tour at the prime time of Novak, Roger and myself. And he was, in my feeling, the one that he was at the same level than us, in general terms.
"Then, in terms of victories, it's true that he achieved less, but in terms of level of tennis, in terms of holding mentally, the winning spirit week after week... He was the only one that was very close to, to be at the same level as us."

RAFAEL NADAL SAYS ANDY MURRAY WAS THE ONLY PLAYER CLOSE TO LEVEL OF ROGER FEDERER, NOVAK DJOKOVIC AND HIMSELF​

Rafael Nadal says Andy Murray was the only player close to level of Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic and myself - Eurosport

Rafael Nadal has hailed Andy Murray as an "amazing player" but one that ultimately was a victim of the era of tennis he emerged in.

www.eurosport.com

 

[Poisoned Slice]

I always liked the way he says Andy.

 

[Deleted member 758560]

bamos rafa, will be rooting tomorrow for you haha

 

[StefanV]

ATG consistency. That is it.

 

[jl809]

ATG consistency. That is it.

He had a ATG ROS too!

 

[nolefam_2024]

Changed nothing.

 

[TheGoldenEra1990’s]

Oh if Nadal says it it’s gospel. LOL With all due respect to Nadal, he is just a nice guy. He’s never downgrading or bad mouthing anyone so you aren’t actually going to get the truth and reality out of him.

you want real criticism with real people and players. Not guys like Nadal who’s entire life is not hurting anyone’s feelings and Canned PR responses. I don’t understand why these idiot reporters even ask these questions to career PR guys like Nadal

 

[3loudboys]

Rafa is right … Sir Andeh deserving of all the plaudits.

 

[Apun94]

Oh if Nadal says it it’s gospel. LOL With all due respect to Nadal, he is just a nice guy. He’s never downgrading or bad mouthing anyone so you aren’t actually going to get the truth and reality out of him.

you want real criticism with real people and players. Not guys like Nadal who’s entire life is not hurting anyone’s feelings and Canned PR responses. I don’t understand why these idiot reporters even ask these questions to career PR guys like Nadal

Did you even see Murray during his prime years? He was the ONLY legitimate threat to Fedalovic during the late 200s-mid 2010. As fake as Nadal at times, he is absolutely correct here. He was right up there. God I miss discussing tennis with players who have actually watched tennis for a few years than posters now who started watching tennis during covid and think they know it all

 

[Mainad]

I always liked the way he says Andy.

Rafa and Andy have been close friends since Andy trained in Barcelona with him when he was a young teenager just starting out.

 

[TheGoldenEra1990’s]

Did you even see Murray during his prime years? He was the ONLY legitimate threat to Fedalovic during the late 200s-mid 2010. As fake as Nadal at times, he is absolutely correct here. He was right up there. God I miss discussing tennis with players who have actually watched tennis for a few years than posters now who started watching tennis during covid and think they know it all

He was never a real threat IMO. Del Potro and wawrinka was more of a threat cause they had way bigger games than murray. They were just inconsistent and/or injured too much

truth is is Murray is just a very crappy version of djokovic with a much worse serve. No big game to bother the big 3. If you’re gonna talk threats a guy with a bigger more powerful game Del Potro/nalbandian/wawrinka is more bothersome to the big 3 than say Murray

 

[RF-18]

Rafa is absolutely right. How come these guys acknowledge Murray was a bit unfortunate that his tennis career coincided with guys like Fedalovic? No one is saying Murray is a 10+ slam calibre player, but considering his achievements and the level he displayed all round, a bit more than 3 slams is a fairer reflection. His achievements all round are pretty nuts.

 

[dapchai]

It's official: Rafa Nadal is @Mainad.

 

[TheGoldenEra1990’s]

no one was “very close” to the big 3. Jeesh. Murray and wawrinka were the closes with what 3-4 slams? Come on. It’s just Nadal being Nadal. Nice dude. Murray would need 5 more careers or more to match what they did in one LOL

 

[Kralingen]

Yeah Rafa keep pumping up the guy you have a 17-7 H2H against. The guy who posed no danger whatsoever to you in Slams you actually had a chance of winning (no, AO 10 and USO 08 Rafa was nowhere near a winning level)

I’m sure he was really tough competition when you humiliated him at Wimbledon 3 consecutive tries.

Give me a break. Why are we always throwing a pity party for Andy. It’s disrespectful it shows how they don’t actually take him seriously. If he was actually that good we wouldn’t need to do this.

 

[Jonesy]

Nah, level of play isn't enough if he couldn't win at least 6 slams. In the end winning is winning and what determines things in tennis. That is why Djokovic is the Goat and Murray is not an ATG.

I know folks here like to run away from reality, but objectivity always comes first, subjectivity can come later when there is a tie. If there is no obiective tie then subjective arguments are just decoration inside your head.

 

[RF-18]

Yeah Rafa keep pumping up the guy you have a 17-7 H2H against. The guy who posed no danger whatsoever to you in Slams you actually had a chance of winning (no, AO 10 and USO 08 Rafa was nowhere near a winning level)

I’m sure he was really tough competition when you humiliated him at Wimbledon 3 consecutive tries.

Give me a break. Why are we always throwing a pity party for Andy. It’s disrespectful it shows how they don’t actually take him seriously. If he was actually that good we wouldn’t need to do this.

He isn't pumping him up at all.

 

[Mainad]

He was never a real threat IMO. Del Potro and wawrinka was more of a threat cause they had way bigger games than murray. They were just inconsistent and/or injured too much

truth is is Murray is just a very crappy version of djokovic with a much worse serve. No big game to bother the big 3. If you’re gonna talk threats a guy with a bigger more powerful game is more bothersome to the big 3 than say Murray

Lol...he bothered the Big 3 enough to beat each of them on their best surfaces and take 12 big titles from them including the world #1 ranking. Nobody else came close to taking as much.

Incidentally he's 7-3 vs Del Potro and 13-9 vs Wawrinka. Their "way bigger games" didn't bother him too much.

I guess you're just another doubter who prefers the big hitters and therefore underestimates and so undervalues Murray's game.

 

[Mainad]

Nah, level of play isn't enough if he couldn't win at least 6 slams. In the end winning is winning and what determines things in tennis. That is why Djokovic is the Goat and Murray is not an ATG.

I know folks here like to run away from reality, but objectivity always comes first, subjectivity can come later when there is a tie. If there is no obiective tie then subjective arguments are just decoration inside your head.

What's with this magic figure of at least 6 Slams. Who decided on that criteria??

 

[nolefam_2024]

Lol...he bothered the Big 3 enough to beat each of them on their best surfaces and take 12 big titles from them including the world #1 ranking. Nobody else came close to beating them as much.

Incidentally he's 7-3 vs Del Potro and 13-9 vs Wawrinka. Their "way bigger games" didn't bother him too much.

I guess you're just another doubter who prefers the big hitters and therefore underestimates and so undervalues Murray's game.

Murray is modern great. He is easily top 20 and probably top 15 in open era.

 

[Mainad]

Yeah Rafa keep pumping up the guy you have a 17-7 H2H against. The guy who posed no danger whatsoever to you in Slams you actually had a chance of winning (no, AO 10 and USO 08 Rafa was nowhere near a winning level)

I’m sure he was really tough competition when you humiliated him at Wimbledon 3 consecutive tries.

Give me a break. Why are we always throwing a pity party for Andy. It’s disrespectful it shows how they don’t actually take him seriously. If he was actually that good we wouldn’t need to do this.

I completely agree. I don't think we need to do this either.

 

[DSH]

bamos rafa, will be rooting tomorrow for you haha

Vamos!

 

[Kralingen]

I completely agree. I don't think we need to do this either.

Like am I crazy or is this kind of a statement actually pretty condescending and disrespectful to Murray?

His resume and achievements should be able to stand on their own as admirable, even I will admit he has won quite a lot.

I hate the way tennis media and now Rafa talks about him like “oh too bad Andy, just came up a little short”. It’s disrespectful, they treat him like the little brother and say how it’s a shame he didn’t win more.

I just don’t like the tone of the entire way we discuss him. Discuss him on his own merit and take him seriously, and leave it at that.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Every achievement should stand on its own or isn't an achievement.

Pushing Nadal to fifth set of RG is not an achievement.

Winning RG 3 times is an achievement.


No ifs butts and excuses.

 

[Mustard]

People say "Big 3" now. They always said "Big 4" in the 2011 to 2017 period, even though Murray was a more distant fourth in terms of wins. Murray has had a brilliant career, especially in British terms.

 

[mike danny]

ATG with as good of a slam record against the Big 3 as Berdych/Tsonga/Stan.

 

[nolefam_2024]

People say "Big 3" now. They always said "Big 4" in the 2011 to 2017 period, even though Murray was a more distant fourth in terms of wins. Murray has had a brilliant career, especially in British terms.

True. A modern great.

 

[Mustard]

Yeah Rafa keep pumping up the guy you have a 17-7 H2H against. The guy who posed no danger whatsoever to you in Slams

Uh? Murray beat Nadal at the 2008 US Open and 2010 Australian Open. Nadal had won something like 53 of his last 55 matches going into their 2008 US Open semi final.

 

[RS]

Yeah Rafa keep pumping up the guy you have a 17-7 H2H against. The guy who posed no danger whatsoever to you in Slams you actually had a chance of winning (no, AO 10 and USO 08 Rafa was nowhere near a winning level)

I’m sure he was really tough competition when you humiliated him at Wimbledon 3 consecutive tries.

Give me a break. Why are we always throwing a pity party for Andy. It’s disrespectful it shows how they don’t actually take him seriously. If he was actually that good we wouldn’t need to do this.

17-7 is a beautiful H2H score.

 

[Kralingen]

Uh? Murray beat Nadal at the 2008 US Open and 2010 Australian Open. Nadal had won something like 53 of his last 55 matches going into their 2008 US Open semi final.

Shocking response. You read my post, quoted me, and then intentionally left out the next sentence of my post where I directly addressed those two losses. ???

 

[ojo rojo]

 

[Mustard]

ATG with as good of a slam record against the Big 3 as Berdych/Tsonga/Stan.

In matches in majors:

Murray is 2-7 against Nadal, 1-5 against Federer and 2-8 against Djokovic, so a combined 5-20
Berdych is 1-4 against Nadal, 2-8 against Federer and 2-4 against Djokovic, so a combined 5-16
Tsonga is 1-2 against Nadal, 2-4 against Federer and 1-7 against Djokovic, so a combined 4-13
Wawrinka is 1-3 against Nadal, 1-7 against Federer and 4-5 against Djokovic, so a combined 6-15

 

[Mustard]

Shocking response. You read my post, quoted me, and then intentionally left out the next sentence of my post where I directly addressed those two losses. ???

Nadal had won 53 of his last 55 matches going into their 2008 US Open semi final.

 

[Deleted member 758560]

ATG with as good of a slam record against the Big 3 as Berdych/Tsonga/Stan.

you yourself proved this road is a wrong way coz here is a guy with zero slams equal to a guy with three slams (birdman and stanimal)

 

[SpinWizard]

Andy was absolutely amazing player. Rafa is right. The fact is that Murray had two big moments in his career when it looked like he gained a lot of momentum and combination of confidence/mentality/level of play and both times it was stopped due to very serious injury.

First 2012-2013 when he played absolutely incredible and went toe to toe against Big Three (imo his absolute peak level wise) he injured his back and had to fight really hard to come back to his old level.

And then 2016 when he played a little bit worse than 2012-2013 in my opinion, but gained Big Three level consistency. Once again he was stopped by hip injury, but this time it finished his career as a top player.

 

[Mustard]

The match that really did Murray in was the 2017 French Open semi final against Wawrinka, after he failed to win it in 4 sets and ended up losing in 5 sets.

 

[Megafanoftennis100]

Nah, Murray is nothing. Sinner is miles better than Murray. Murray "only" won 3 Slams, while Sinner will easily end up with 25+ Slams, including the Super Slam this year.
Murray got destroyed by Djokovic in 2011 AO final lmao. You call that "phenomenal"? How about Sinner destroying a similar level Djokovic by a difference of 11 games?

 

[Megafanoftennis100]

Andy was absolutely amazing player. Rafa is right. The fact is that Murray had two big moments in his career when it looked like he gained a lot of momentum and combination of confidence/mentality/level of play and both times it was stopped due to very serious injury.

First 2012-2013 when he played absolutely incredible and went toe to toe against Big Three (imo his absolute peak level wise) he injured his back and had to fight really hard to come back to his old level.

And then 2016 when he played a little bit worse than 2012-2013 in my opinion, but gained Big Three level consistency. Once again he was stopped by hip injury, but this time it finished his career as a top player.

If 2024 Jannik Sinner played during the 2012-2013 period, the Big 3 and Murray would have won zero Slams, not even Fed in 2012 Wimbledon or Rafa in 2012 RG.
The Big 3 are all overrated champions who feasted on the weakest era in tennis history (2001-2023). Now, the strong era has began, and Sinner is the next dominant champion!
Accept it, whether you like it or not.

 

[Mustard]

If 2024 Jannik Sinner played during the 2012-2013 period, the Big 3 and Murray would have won zero Slams, not even Fed in 2012 Wimbledon or Rafa in 2012 RG.
The Big 3 are all overrated champions who feasted on the weakest era in tennis history (2001-2023). Now, the strong era has began, and Sinner is the next dominant champion!
Accept it, whether you like it or not.

LOL

 

[Razer]

Cmon Rafa ...

Deep down you know that Safin and Del Potro were far superior to Murray

Just say it....off with your diplomacy

 

[jl809]

people in this thread ignoring the fact that Ned never faced Lendlray and ran away the one time it nearly happened at Miami 2012

Where was Ned when Murray was hammering Djokovic and straight setting Federer on centre court? On the couch or losing to Darcis

 

[Mainad]

Cmon Rafa ...

Deep down you know that Safin and Del Potro were far superior to Murray

Just say it....off with your diplomacy

Rafa always tells it like it is.

 

[Razer]

Rafa always tells it like it is.

Rafa praises his friends

 

[Mainad]

Rafa praises his friends

He is even closer to Juan Monaco but has never claimed he was the closest player to the Big 3.

 

[Razer]

He is even closer to Juan Monaco but has never claimed he was the closest player to the Big 3.

He didn't praise Davydenoko for having a winning h2h over him, did he? So no ...Nadal is not unbiased

 

[Mainad]

He didn't praise Davydenoko for having a winning h2h over him, did he? So no ...Nadal is not unbiased

True but no player likes to acknowledge a losing H2H with anybody.

 

[Deleted member 806402]

Yeah Rafa keep pumping up the guy you have a 17-7 H2H against. The guy who posed no danger whatsoever to you in Slams you actually had a chance of winning (no, AO 10 and USO 08 Rafa was nowhere near a winning level)

I’m sure he was really tough competition when you humiliated him at Wimbledon 3 consecutive tries.

Give me a break. Why are we always throwing a pity party for Andy. It’s disrespectful it shows how they don’t actually take him seriously. If he was actually that good we wouldn’t need to do this.

Thanks for setting the record straight.

 

[Phenomenal]

"He had a lot of finals. He was an amazing player that probably played in a difficult moment of the history of tennis, because, he shared the tour at the prime time of Novak, Roger and myself. And he was, in my feeling, the one that he was at the same level than us, in general terms.
"Then, in terms of victories, it's true that he achieved less, but in terms of level of tennis, in terms of holding mentally, the winning spirit week after week... He was the only one that was very close to, to be at the same level as us."

RAFAEL NADAL SAYS ANDY MURRAY WAS THE ONLY PLAYER CLOSE TO LEVEL OF ROGER FEDERER, NOVAK DJOKOVIC AND HIMSELF​

Rafael Nadal says Andy Murray was the only player close to level of Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic and myself - Eurosport

Rafael Nadal has hailed Andy Murray as an "amazing player" but one that ultimately was a victim of the era of tennis he emerged in.

www.eurosport.com

Rafa is right on saying he is the only one who is close to Big 3 in the Big 3 era. But not 'very close' obviously.

So close yet so far away.

 

[SpinWizard]

If 2024 Jannik Sinner played during the 2012-2013 period, the Big 3 and Murray would have won zero Slams, not even Fed in 2012 Wimbledon or Rafa in 2012 RG.
The Big 3 are all overrated champions who feasted on the weakest era in tennis history (2001-2023). Now, the strong era has began, and Sinner is the next dominant champion!
Accept it, whether you like it or not.

 

[Phenomenal]

You can argue other players such as Stan, Delpo(unfortunate) Thiem others etc has showed higher level at slams. It's argubable. But they are not close to Murray overall. So Murray is better at accomplishments.

Considering 2 OG 1WTF tons of masters, reaching NO1 high winning %.

Idk whether he is ATG or not depends on criterias.