Rafa or Fed, who is greater at the US Open?

who?


  • Total voters
    156

Start da Game

Hall of Fame
i don't want to give any introduction to this thread, we all know how many times they participated in the slam, who they beat and how many titles they won........let us settle this once and for all........who edges out who in this race at the us open and historically who is greater at this fast hardcourt slam?
 

SinneGOAT

Semi-Pro
Tough to say. Fed had an amazing run 2004-2008, but then failed to win another. Nadal’s form 2010 and 2013 was amazing, but didn’t go on a 5 year rampage. I’d have to go with Fed for that 2004-2008 era.
 

Third Serve

Legend
Fed:

5 wins (in a row)
2 extra finals
3 extra SFs

Ned:
4 wins
1 extra final
3 extra SFs

Fed clearly better imo. If it was just the five titles in a row, I'd still put him ahead, but he also has an extra final and 41 straight match wins there (he had a shot at 47 but the Delpo match threw a wrench in it).

If we're talking peak level, my top five between the two might look like this:

Fed 2004
Fed 2006
Ned 2010 / Fed 2005
Fed 2008
Ned 2013
 

Start da Game

Hall of Fame
sadly for most people numbers is the only criterion........that 2008 title could have easily gone to rafa if he just skipped olympics........then it would have been 5-4 in favour of him........so you have to factor in such things, not just vote thinking 2>1 or 3>2........peak nadal could not be stopped even by peak djokovic at the us open........
 

octogon

Hall of Fame
For now Fed because 5>4

But if they tie, and I'm forced to pick, Nadal.

The 5 in a row thing is not a positive argument for Fed, imho. In many ways it's a negative. Because his complete inability to do much at the US Open in the 2010's when the courts got slower just show he was artificially boosted by the tournament with court conditions to favor his game. Once they took away those advantadges, Fed was almost useless at the US Open.

Nadal has had no special advantadge in terms of conditions to win his 4.
 

tudwell

Legend
Hmm. Let's see. :unsure:

Federer
Titles: 5
Finals: 7
Semifinals: 10
Quarterfinals: 13
Losses before quarterfinals: 6
Career win-loss: 89-14 (86%)
Top-10 wins: 16

Nadal
Titles: 4
Finals: 5
Semifinals: 8
Quarterfinals: 9
Losses before quarterfinals: 6
Career win-loss: 64-11 (85%)
Top-10 wins: 7

It's really not that close until Nadal wins another. Then there would be arguments either way.
 
Fed:

5 wins (in a row)
2 extra finals
3 extra SFs

Ned:
4 wins
1 extra final
3 extra SFs

Fed clearly better imo. If it was just the five titles in a row, I'd still put him ahead, but he also has an extra final and 41 straight match wins there (he had a shot at 47 but the Delpo match threw a wrench in it).

If we're talking peak level, my top five between the two might look like this:

Fed 2004
Fed 2006
Ned 2010 / Fed 2005
Fed 2008
Ned 2013
16 vs 7 top 10 wins
 

Third Serve

Legend
I wonder what the rationale for having Nadal over Fed here might be. I figure Ned fans would try to pull the competition card but looking at his USO draws they'd have a very shaky foundation.

Opponents I consider good are bolded. Opponents I consider weak are italicized

Fed USO 2004 QF-F (so basically later-round) opponents: Agassi, Henman, Hewitt (sorry, he just didn't play a good match)
Fed USO 2005 QF-F opponents: Nalbandian, Hewitt, Agassi
Fed USO 2006 QF-F opponents: Blake, Davydenko, Roddick (Blake could be bolded here too, based on how he played for some of those sets)
Fed USO 2007 QF-F opponents: Roddick, Davydenko, Djokovic
Fed USO 2008 QF-F opponents: Muller, Djokovic, Murray (should probably italicize Murray too; it was his first Slam final and he wasn't prepared for the occasion)

Ned USO 2010 QF-F: Verdasco, Youzhny, Djokovic
Ned USO 2013 QF-F: Robredo, Gasquet, Djokovic
Ned USO 2017 QF-F: Rublev, Del Potro, Anderson (megalol)
Ned USO 2019 QF-F: Schwartzman, Berrettini, Medvedev (some wouldn't consider Med strong; I'm being more generous here).

Unlike other situations, Ned fans have absolutely no high ground when it comes to USO competition.
 

tudwell

Legend
look at that poll result, fraudsters on a voting spree.........acting like it is not 5-4 but 15-4.........so insecure as usual........
I mean, it's a binary poll. The people picking Fed aren't necessarily saying his advantage over Nadal is huge. If you were to ask whether 4 or 5 is the bigger number, 100% of people would say 5, but that doesn't mean it's fantastically larger than 4.

Also, LOL at starting a thread and then calling people insecure because they didn't vote the way you wanted.
 

Start da Game

Hall of Fame
I wonder what the rationale for having Nadal over Fed here might be. I figure Ned fans would try to pull the competition card but looking at his USO draws they'd have a very shaky foundation.

Opponents I consider good are bolded. Opponents I consider weak are italicized

Fed USO 2004 QF-F (so basically later-round) opponents: Agassi, Henman, Hewitt (sorry, he just didn't play a good match)
Fed USO 2005 QF-F opponents: Nalbandian, Hewitt, Agassi
Fed USO 2006 QF-F opponents: Blake, Davydenko, Roddick (Blake could be bolded here too, based on how he played for some of those sets)
Fed USO 2007 QF-F opponents: Roddick, Davydenko, Djokovic
Fed USO 2008 QF-F opponents: Muller, Djokovic, Murray (should probably italicize Murray too; it was his first Slam final and he wasn't prepared for the occasion)

Ned USO 2010 QF-F: Verdasco, Youzhny, Djokovic
Ned USO 2013 QF-F: Robredo, Gasquet, Djokovic
Ned USO 2017 QF-F: Rublev, Del Potro, Anderson (megalol)
Ned USO 2019 QF-F: Schwartzman, Berrettini, Medvedev (some wouldn't consider Med strong; I'm being more generous here).

Unlike other situations, Ned fans have absolutely no high ground when it comes to USO competition.
none of them were as good as peak djokovic........that is the biggest thing working in favour of nadal.........the poll result is just ridiculous........
 

Start da Game

Hall of Fame
What if Djokovic wasn't peak in the 2010 and 2013 USOs?
what if nadal wins his fifth next year? we can only discuss what we saw, and from what we saw he was playing at a level higher than he's ever played there before........2013 was just epic how rafa turned the tables around in that third set........
 

Pheasant

Hall of Fame
It's obviously Rafa by a light year. Let's not insult Rafa by comparing him to a bum like Federer.

The question is this: Is Federer in the top 200 ever at the USO. I'm not so sure.

Federer was at his peak in 2017, yet needed baby world #70 Tiafoe to choke badly to allow Federer to win in 5 sets in the first round. In round two, world #101 Youzhny had Federer on the ropes, but then Federer scraped by another 5 set win.

2018: Baby Millman that was clearly hobbled by the 98 degree heat index stomped peak Fed that was fresh as a daisy in round 4. Millman didn't have enough practice in those humid conditions. But his killer talent allowed him to slaughter peak Fed, despite the massive disadvantage there.

The clincher is at the 2013 USO. Peak Fed got destroyed in 3 sets by Robredo, the same Robredo that lost to Nadal 6-0, 6-2, 6-2 in the following round. 2013 was the best version of Federer that I've ever seen, especially at the USO. But Robredo was far too evolved for a zoning Federer.

The only fair thing to due is cancel Fed's 5 consecutive titles at the USO. We also need to cancel Fed's 14 consecutive wins vs the top 10 at the USO, mainly because each one of those opponents tanked their matches to Fed. Each one of those guys was the favorite against Fed, yet was paid off to tank to Fed.
 
Top