Rafa or Fed, who is greater at the US Open?

who?


  • Total voters
    156

Pheasant

Hall of Fame
In all seriousness, Federer had a truly unique run at the USO during the Open Era.

1. Fed's 5 straight titles and 6 straight finals is truly amazing.
2. Fed's 14 straight wins vs the top 10 is absolutely ridiculous. Federer only lost 7 sets during that insane 14 match streak vs the top 10 while dishing out 7 baked goods(4 break sticks and 3 bagels). This is flat-out destruction of the top 10.

3+ USO champions with the most wins vs top-10 players

1. Lendl 17-8
2. Sampras 16-5
2. Federer 16-6
4. Djoker 12-7
5. McEnroe 9-4
6. Nadal 7-5
6. Connors 7-8

As far as competition goes, I think that Lendl had the toughest competition. He faced Connors(5 time winner) and McEnroe(4 time winner) several times. He also faced Edberg(2 time winner), along with other winners(Agassi, Wilander, Becker).
 

Hood_Man

Legend
Federer's dominance of the US Open was so great that when he was beaten it was not only a huge shock, but the trophy has since been cursed to never be won in consecutive years by the same player.

The title of "Men's US Open Singles Champion" has taken on the same meaning as the title of "Defence Against the Dark Arts Professor" at Hogwarts.
 

Federev

Hall of Fame
look at that poll result, fraudsters on a voting spree.........acting like it is not 5-4 but 15-4.........so insecure as usual........
I mean ... a good attorney never asks a he doesn’t know the answer to.

If you knew they were so insecure and would go on a spree why did you bother? ;)

Fed’s not a lark here. 5 in a row. 6 finals appearances in a row. The domination is unequalled and unparalleled.

So spree or not (and Nole Fam is laying it down for the Objectivites) you’re looking at a very tough sell for Rafa.
 

USO

Rookie
I am USO so here are my two cents... :cool:

After watching Nadal demolish PCB today (The man who lead Djokovic 6-5 with a break and almost won his SF), I have a feeling that Nadal would have won this year’s USO. :unsure: But obviously he didn’t want to over play.

As for the question itself, Federer obviously has more titles so one has to vote for him. He was dominant for 5 years in a row, but Nadal’s wins have a 10-year longevity so it’s a strength too. Despite missing it a few years, it feels that he’s been a factor there for a long time including this year had he played.

Both are two of the biggest champions at the USO, and believe me if anyone knows I do. :cool:
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
Federer's dominance of the US Open was so great that when he was beaten it was not only a huge shock, but the trophy has since been cursed to never be won in consecutive years by the same player.

The title of "Men's US Open Singles Champion" has taken on the same meaning as the title of "Defence Against the Dark Arts Professor" at Hogwarts.
Just proves how tough it is to win the USO title! Even Borg couldn't win on 3 different surfaces over the years! :sneaky:
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
I am USO so here are my two cents... :cool:

After watching Nadal demolish PCB today (The man who lead Djokovic 6-5 with a break and almost won his SF), I have a feeling that Nadal would have won this year’s USO. :unsure: But obviously he didn’t want to over play.

As for the question itself, Federer obviously has more titles so one has to vote for him. He was dominant for 5 years in a row, but Nadal’s wins have a 10-year longevity so it’s a strength too. Despite missing it a few years, it feels that he’s been a factor there for a long time including this year had he played.

Both are two of the biggest champions at the USO, and believe me if anyone knows I do. :cool:
Doubt it. He would've needed Djokovic to get defaulted just like Thiem and the rest of the field needed it.
 

USO

Rookie
Doubt it. He would've needed Djokovic to get defaulted just like Thiem and the rest of the field needed it.
Nadal at the USO has performed better in finals including against Djokovic. In tournaments like the USO and Canada he plays some of his best hardcourt tennis.

Frankly I wasn’t impressed that much by Djokovic’s form in Cincinnati barely beating Raonic and Bautista and then at the USO losing a set to Edmund and then already in trouble against PCB. Djokovic could have still lost in one of his matches, he didn’t seem invincible.

I guess it’s still early to judge Nadal’s form but based on today I think he has worked very hard in the off-season and could have done very well at the USO. I guess we’ll see more of him in the next few days...
 
Easy. Federer.

However I disagree with people who bring up 5 in a row as an advantage for Federer. I don't see it that way. All that tells me is that after 2008 he's done dick all at the tournament.
In fact it might even be a disadvantage if anything. Let's take 2 players and they've each won the same amount of titles (and also reached same amount of finals/semi/quarter/etc) but one won 5 in a row vs the other who won 5 over the course of 15-20 years. Honestly...I'd say the latter is more impressive because he was able to win over multiple generations of competitors and also maybe differing tournament factors (rules, court speeds, etc).
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal at the USO has performed better in finals including against Djokovic. In tournaments like the USO and Canada he plays some of his best hardcourt tennis. Frankly I wasn’t impressed that much by Djokovic’s form in Cincinnati barely beating Raonic and Bautista and then at the USO losing a set to Edmund and then already in trouble against PCB. Djokovic could have still lost in one of his matches. I guess it’s still early to judge Nadal’s form but based on today I think he has worked very hard in the off-season and could have done very well at the USO. I guess we’ll see more of him in the next few days...
Yet we're supposed to rate Nadal's form? He didn't even play. Besides that, he hasn't beaten Djokovic on a HC in 7 years. Safe to say he would've needed an upset like he got in 2019, and with no Wawrinka I'm not sure he would've gotten one. Not saying Nadal couldn't win the USO. He absolutely could have, but if he actually had to play Djokovic H2H it only goes one way these days.
 
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USO

Rookie
Yet we're supposed to rate Nadal's form? He didn't even play. Besides that, he hasn't beaten Djokovic on a HC in 7 years. Safe to say he would've needed an upset like he got in 2019, and with no Wawrinka I'm not sure he would've gotten one.
It doesn’t matter, even if you want to consider Djokovic as the favourite despite him often under performing at the USO, the least you can do is put Nadal as the second favourite.

The point is even in 2020 Nadal would be still a big contender at the USO since he won it last year while Federer hasn’t since 2008. I’m just saying that Nadal at the USO has been a force for many years now and that both him and Federer are some of USO’s greatest champions despite their different journey. Federer still has the edge, but it’s not like at the AO where it’s not even debateable.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
It doesn’t matter, even if you want to consider Djokovic as the favourite despite him often under performing at the USO, the least you can do is put Nadal as the second favourite.

The point is even in 2020 Nadal would be still a big contender at the USO since he won it last year while Federer hasn’t since 2008. I’m just saying that Nadal at the USO has been a force for many years now and that both him and Federer are some of USO’s greatest champions despite their different journey.
Obviously, Nadal would have been the 2nd favourite if he played. Never said he wasn't.
 

Hitman

Legend
Federer dominated 2000-2009 decade winning 5 in a row in that time. Nadal owned the event 2010-2019 winning 4 titles in 8 attempts in that decade. Who is better? 5 is more than 4. So Federer has to have the vote. Best 3 US Open players are Sampras Federer and Connors with Nadal 4th.
Nadal is tied with McEnroe at 4 USO, he doesn't sit at 4th place by himself.
 

Beckerserve

Professional
In all seriousness, Federer had a truly unique run at the USO during the Open Era.

1. Fed's 5 straight titles and 6 straight finals is truly amazing.
2. Fed's 14 straight wins vs the top 10 is absolutely ridiculous. Federer only lost 7 sets during that insane 14 match streak vs the top 10 while dishing out 7 baked goods(4 break sticks and 3 bagels). This is flat-out destruction of the top 10.

3+ USO champions with the most wins vs top-10 players

1. Lendl 17-8
2. Sampras 16-5
2. Federer 16-6
4. Djoker 12-7
5. McEnroe 9-4
6. Nadal 7-5
6. Connors 7-8

As far as competition goes, I think that Lendl had the toughest competition. He faced Connors(5 time winner) and McEnroe(4 time winner) several times. He also faced Edberg(2 time winner), along with other winners(Agassi, Wilander, Becker).
Awesome post and well informed. I would be really interested if you would list your top 8 USO champions in order. Mine is as follows:
1. Sampras
2. Federer
3. Connors
4. Nadal
5. Mcenroe
6. Lendl
7. Djokovic
8. Edberg.
 

Beckerserve

Professional
It is what it is, he just couldn't past peak Connors and then peak McEnroe there. Shame really, felt he deserved at least one.
Wonder how much the crowd played apart. In those days NY crowd was mad and very close to the court. You are right he deserved one. What a player. What a guy.
 

Hitman

Legend
Wonder how much the crowd played apart. In those days NY crowd was mad and very close to the court. You are right he deserved one. What a player. What a guy.
Well, he was the opposite of Connors, who thrived in the NYC energy, Borg couldn't wait to get out of there....Everything used to annoy him about that place, even the lights. If I recall correctly after losing to McEnroe in 1981, he just walked off the court and drove back to the hotel, and got the first plane out....before anyone knew what was going on, Borg was already airborne.
 

USO

Rookie
Went for Sampras top as to win it as youngest winner ever then 12 years later is pretty damn special and probably just trumps 5 in a row. And those matches with prime Agassi were just unreal.
Yeah, I agree. The fact that even 12 years after his first title he was still able to say "I am again the best at the USO" has a lot of weight. Also the fact that he was American and also his rivalry with Agassi makes people remember him more at the USO than Federer. He also has an extra final. At this point it's one of the very few things that we can rank Sampras over Federer, so let's give him a break! ;)
 

Beckerserve

Professional
Well, he was the opposite of Connors, who thrived in the NYC energy, Borg couldn't wait to get out of there....Everything used to annoy him about that place, even the lights. If I recall correctly after losing to McEnroe in 1981, he just walked off the court and drove back to the hotel, and got the first plane out....before anyone knew what was going on, Borg was already airborne.
Yep exactly how it did. Funnily enough Nadal did that last year after winning. Usually the champion stays the next day for photo ops in New York. In those days Flushing was like a zoo. Connors worked that crowd big time.
 

Beckerserve

Professional
Yeah, I agree. The fact that even 12 years after his first title he was still able to say "I am again the best at the USO" has a lot of weight. Also the fact that he was American and also his rivalry with Agassi makes people remember him more at the USO than Federer. He also has an extra final. At this point it's one of the very few things that we can rank Sampras over Federer, so let's give him a break! ;)
What about Wimbledon? 7 finals 7 won. Personally i give Federer the edge due to 2001 match. Had Sampras won that i would have given it Pete. Not sure why so many do not like Pete. Mind u i still get annoyed over his W record v Becker. Especially 1995 final. I still feel but for a bad fall in 2nd set Becker may have won that match.
 
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Hitman

Legend
Yep exactly how it did. Funnily enough Nadal did that last year after winning. Usually the champion stays the next day for photo ops in New York. In those days Flushing was like a zoo. Connors worked that crowd big time.
The thing is Borg was loved also, but the personality of the USO just didn't gel with his own personality. He thrived in Europe it was better suited to him.
 

USO

Rookie
What about Wimbledon? 7 finals 7 won. Personally i give Federer the edge due to 2001 match. Had Sampras won that i would have given it Pete. Not sure why so many do not like Pete. Mind u i still get annoyed over his W record v Becker. Especially 1995 final. I still feel but for a bad fall in 2nd set Becker may have won that match.
I don't think the 2001 match was very important... It was between 2 completely different generations and also it could have gone either way. It’s not as if Sampras knew that Federer was going to become an all-time great and that this match was going to eventually have a certain meaning.

Federer obviously has an extra title and several more finals, but the fact that Federer lost all his 3 finals to Djokovic is definitely a bad look. Sampras when he made the final had that unbeatable aura. But maybe if Sampras had played up until his late 30s he would have lost many finals too so we can’t hold it against Federer, he is definitely still at #1 for Wimbledon.
 

Beckerserve

Professional
I don't think the 2001 match was very important... It was between 2 completely different generations and also it could have gone either way. It’s not as if Sampras knew that Federer was going to become an all-time great and that this match was going to eventually have a certain meaning.

Federer obviously has an extra title and several more finals, but the fact that Federer lost all his 3 finals to Djokovic is definitely a bad look. Sampras when he made the final had that unbeatable aura. But maybe if Sampras had played up until his late 30s he would have lost many finals too so we can’t hold it against Federer, he is definitely still at #1 for Wimbledon.
If Sampras had played on he would have been losing finals to Federer like Federer is to Djokovic now. Age is a factor between all time greats. Less of an issue v a Zverev or tsitsipas!!
 

ForehandCross

Hall of Fame
Federer has 1 more title despite significantly tougher draws.

Matches vs Djokovic:

Federer 6
Nadal 3
I don't get what OP means to say by who played who,Nadal didn't exactly have harder competition.

Federer played and beat Murray,Djokovic,Agassi,Hewitt,Roddick, e.t.c multiple times in his winning USO runs. Each of them are USO champions.

Nadal on the other hand only has beaten Djokovic in his winning runs.

Nadal only beat Djokovic. And 2007 and 2008 Djokovic that Federer beat had actually achieved more on HC in the year going into USO than 2010 ,
2007 had 2 HC masters another finals,2008 had AO to his name and a masters and a Finals.

Meanwhile Djokovic 2010 hadn't beaten a top 10 upto the Federer match.


This is Nadal in 2010s against Top 10

TOTALSMatchTiebreakAce%1stIn1st%2nd%Hld%SPWBrk%RPWTPWDR
[x] Time Span: 04-Jan-2010...
7-2 (78%)​
3-2 (60%)​
3.1%​
66.2%​
69.1%​
53.7%​
77.7%​
63.9%​
26.0%​
40.1%​
51.7%​
1.11​


This is Federer from 2004 to 2013 (10years) on USO HC


TOTALSMatchTiebreakAce%1stIn1st%2nd%Hld%SPWBrk%RPWTPWDR
[x] Time Span: 19-Jan-2004...
15-4 (79%)​
10-4 (71%)​
9.8%​
60.5%​
75.0%​
53.7%​
84.7%​
66.6%​
26.0%​
39.0%​
52.9%​
1.17​

And you can see the difference in numbers. Federer's top 10 matches include 4 straight against Djokovic, one against Murray, Del Potro 2009,Hewitt 2004-05,Agassi 2004-05,Roddick 2006-07

Nadal's include Djokovic 3 times,Murray once ,
Not a single top 20 match in 2017. And in 2019 untll Medvedev where he came close to losing ,he only played ONE top 20 seed, the 20th seed Diego in quarters.


So really Nadal's two USO 2010,2013 has world class performances but he lags behind Federer by a lot in other Departments in USO.
 
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MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
What about Wimbledon? 7 finals 7 won. Personally i give Federer the edge due to 2001 match. Had Sampras won that i would have given it Pete. Not sure why so many do not like Pete. Mind u i still get annoyed over his W record v Becker. Especially 1995 final. I still feel but for a bad fall in 2nd set Becker may have won that match.
I'm not sure why 1 match in Pete's post-prime and Fed's pre-prime counts for more than things like Federer having an extra title and bundle of runner-up plates, but whatever floats your boat.
 
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