Rafa - Time between the points

[dropshot winner]

Because it was an intense match, at intense moments, with the crowd going crazy. It wasn't like it was just a ho hum moment of the match and Nadal is sauntering about the court, not sure how to fill up his time.

Was it over the line? Yeah, I thought it was over the line. Was it FLAGRANTLY over the line? Kind of a judgment call given the circumstances, and the ump is the one who made that call.

The ONLY people who complain about this are still Federer fans that can't stand the guy otherwise they could be complaining about every other player on the tour.

Problem is that umpire never make those calls for high ranked players like Nadal. It's a clear double standard.

After all those years it's obvious that Nadal uses breaks not just to take a breather, but to enforce his rythm on the opponent. Those mind games start before the first point is played when Nadal lets his opponents wait at the net.

The "Intense Moment" is somewhat of an excuse, it's not like Nadal's the only one running in a 20+ stroke rally. The other top player still very rarely reach 50 seconds, if ever.

IMO the timelimit should be set to 30-40 seconds and then enforced every single point (umpire should tell the players "10 seconds left").

First time over the time limit should get a player warning, second a point and third the game. Whetever it's Federer, Nadal or Igor Kunitsyn, the Wimbledon final or 1st round in Sopot.

 

[Dilettante]

You correctly guessed my surname, my first name is Very.

And you made a typo, instead of typing "ss" you typed $$, that is understandable as they kind of look the same. I guess in your state of severe envy, this caused you to make the typo, it is understandable.

Do you guys see this? The guy keeps on saying "understandable" and "understandable"... is almost as freakin' annoying as Nadal saying "unbelievable" and "unbelievable".

Good Luck.

So you're leaving, huh.

10 charactrs

I left out the e because I suspect I can leave out that letter and still reach the required 10 characters.

This time you went outrageously too far with the characters.. I don't know how any longer I'm gonna take this. I mean; you are disrespecting me, my country, my race, my religion and my political beliefs.

BTW I do think Nadal wastes more than 25 seconds, but as I just discredited your reputation by pointing how immoral, insulting and trollish you are, any kind of opinion you could have about this matter goes down the toilet.

Anyway, I'm glad that we (well... me) set this precedent of civilizated and reasonable debate.

560 characters.

F you

564 characters.

 

[ProgressoR]

So you're leaving, huh.

The Good Luck was with reference to your imminent journey to improve yourself so you do not feel inferior in company such as mine.

F you
564 characters.

Fank you too, your typing still requires improvement, however

Good Luck in that too.

 

[Rippy]

The longer he stays on court the better. People come to watch him and they get value for their money

I disagree with that. People come to watch him play tennis, not pick his butt. Him timewasting slows down the tennis, making it less exciting to watch.

 

[Dilettante]

The Good Luck was with reference to your imminent journey to improve yourself so you do not feel inferior in company such as mine.




Fank you too, your typing still requires improvement, however

Good Luck in that too.

No one beats me in an Internet argument, hear me? No one!!!

Ban him! BAN HIM!!!!

 

[ninman]

Because it was an intense match, at intense moments, with the crowd going crazy. It wasn't like it was just a ho hum moment of the match and Nadal is sauntering about the court, not sure how to fill up his time.

Was it over the line? Yeah, I thought it was over the line. Was it FLAGRANTLY over the line? Kind of a judgment call given the circumstances, and the ump is the one who made that call.

The ONLY people who complain about this are still Federer fans that can't stand the guy otherwise they could be complaining about every other player on the tour.

To be honest I don't really notice it too much. When I get into a match I don't really pay attention to how long they take between points. But I still think the umpires are spineless and unprofessional for not enforcing that particular rule.

 

[Rhino]

i wonder if a player just stood there ready to serve, but did nothing, how long it would actually take him to get a time violation?

Rafa's opponents should just stand there tapping their wrists for 30 - 40secs between points when serving and force the umpires to address the issue.

 

[ProgressoR]

No one beats me in an Internet argument, hear me? No one!!!

Ban him! BAN HIM!!!!

This is not an argument, I am busy being right and you are busy at being something else, but given that our interaction can only lead to you improving yourself, then some good comes of it.

You are welcome.

By the way, I am surprised at your inference on trolling, you would have seen my very pertinent comments on the OP's comments and the topic of this thread, in fact I am yet to see any more relevant and insightful comments in this thread. This is something I have experienced in every thread I have posted in.

 

[namelessone]

I disagree with that. People come to watch him play tennis, not pick his butt. Him timewasting slows down the tennis, making it less exciting to watch.

Yet these people keep showing up at his matches,who also get great ratings when they are televised. The haters also come in full force to watch his matches so they can b***h about it later on the respective threads.

I've said it before. Despite having so many defects(apparently),he is still one of the most loved tennis players(probably only second to fed) by spectators,who have come to accept some of Rafa's quirks for the excitement he brings on court. He is the only sportsperson who does wierd things such as butt picking,watter bottle placement etc and he is still very loved in most places(paris seems to be the exception).

And he is probably the only sex simbol(nadal has A LOT of fangirls:shock who tuggs at his backside.

I also don't understand why people still watch his matches if they are annoyed by him or by his tennis. He is one guy,it's not like he is the only tennis player out there. If some don't like Nadal's tennis,his quirks,his slowed down game and so on,they should not watch him. It is really as simple as that. I am not really fond of simon's game for example so I don't watch him,unless he is playing rafa or a top10 player but I won't go into simon threads going on and on about him.

 

[Rippy]

Yet these people keep showing up at his matches,who also get great ratings when they are televised. The haters also come in full force to watch his matches so they can b***h about it later on the respective threads.

I've said it before. Despite having so many defects(apparently),he is still one of the most loved tennis players(probably only second to fed) by spectators,who have come to accept some of Rafa's quirks for the excitement he brings on court. He is the only sportsperson who does wierd things such as butt picking,watter bottle placement etc and he is still very loved in most places(paris seems to be the exception).

And he is probably the only sex simbol(nadal has A LOT of fangirls:shock who tuggs at his backside.

I also don't understand why people still watch his matches if they are annoyed by him or by his tennis. He is one guy,it's not like he is the only tennis player out there. If some don't like Nadal's tennis,his quirks,his slowed down game and so on,they should not watch him. It is really as simple as that. I am not really fond of simon's game for example so I don't watch him,unless he is playing rafa or a top10 player but I won't go into simon threads going on and on about him.

It doesn't irritate me to the extent that I wouldn't watch his matches (though it sure does annoy me). It's a matter of principle though - WHY is he getting away with constantly going over the time limit?

 

[namelessone]

It doesn't irritate me to the extent that I wouldn't watch his matches (though it sure does annoy me). It's a matter of principle though - WHY is he getting away with constantly going over the time limit?

My guess would be the umpires...

 

[statto]

His average today was 31 seconds. 6 seconds over. Yeah he was taking a long time at times, and he was doing it in the last match at times quite a bit...that said, he has been fine outside of those last two matches, averaging the same amount of time as people he is playing at around 25 seconds.

Also just about EVERYONE outside of Roddick and Federer go over the time limit. Just look at the stats on the tennistv.com matches. But he really shouldn't be taking 50 seconds between points like he did against whoever that other opponent was. Maybe it was against Nalbandian?

This. The rule as it stands is ridiculous, and until they address it and allow more time (maybe 35 seconds) umpires will continue to use their discretion in this area.

Rafa's opponents should just stand there tapping their wrists for 30 - 40secs between points when serving and force the umpires to address the issue.

The reason this won't happen is because most players are guilty of it themselves. The reason there's all this discussion over Rafa is because of his success. If he was some journeyman with a 350-250 record then no one would bat an eyelid.

It's also a faulty argument to say it's boring. Attendances and crowd reaction at his matches would indicate otherwise.

 

[djokovicgonzalez2010]

Just get the twenty dollar timer!

 

[mandy01]

His average today was 31 seconds. 6 seconds over. Yeah he was taking a long time at times, and he was doing it in the last match at times quite a bit...that said, he has been fine outside of those last two matches, averaging the same amount of time as people he is playing at around 25 seconds.

Also just about EVERYONE outside of Roddick and Federer go over the time limit. Just look at the stats on the tennistv.com matches. But he really shouldn't be taking 50 seconds between points like he did against whoever that other opponent was. Maybe it was against Nalbandian?

uh-huh.And who is this everyone?
and how often do they abuse the rules?

 

[Dilettante]

This is not an argument, I am busy being right and you are busy at being something else, but given that our interaction can only lead to you improving yourself, then some good comes of it.

You are welcome.

By the way, I am surprised at your inference on trolling, you would have seen my very pertinent comments on the OP's comments and the topic of this thread, in fact I am yet to see any more relevant and insightful comments in this thread. This is something I have experienced in every thread I have posted in.

In fact, I'm amazed by how you, innocent soul, are trying to convince yourself that your oppinions are relevant to anyone else but your loving mommy. And yes, I'm becoming a better person in this interaction because I'm learning how to be kind, patient and understanding with the Internetly handicapped persons who think every single thread is heavenly enlightened by their mere presence.

I don't even remember what were we arguing about, but I'm fine with it because this is my good deed for the day.

Geez, I should get a subvention for being such a fountain of kindess, love, RESPECT and sheer humanity.

You freakin' ******.

uh-huh.And who is this everyone?

ProgressoR, obviously.

 

[ProgressoR]

oppinions

You have spelt this word incorrectly.

RESPECT

And in this case, you appear to have had caps lock inadvertently selected.

You are welcome.

10 Charactrs

(please note the omission of the e above is deliberate, for reasons you should now be clear with)

 

[Deleted member 21996]

status so far:

lets see...

i have not read this thread but my guess is:

- Op posts about the Real FACT: Nadal Breaks the rules by spending to much time. check

- A Few *******s (Veronique, Truth, Bolo et. al.) acuse him of being a hater and that it makes no sense whatsoever, and that if umpires do not enforce than it's ok, and the only guy wrong is Carlos Ramos that calls nadal on time wasting, but he only does that because he is portuguese, so he is envyous... Check

- one or two Federetes Start singing on the Nadal is a Pusher\ButPicker\Timewaster song and that if they were on court they would do this and that and a whole shebang, so much that Nadal would leave the court in a stretcher... Check

- Zagor is the only guy who posts anything worth reading

- namelessone, one of the few bearable Nadal fans posts a big block of text who most people misinterpret.... Check

- CMM posts a nice picture of nadal trying to prove he is not what people say...

-Gorecki jumps in and leaves a witty remark Check

- Drakulie does the same but funnier...


am i in the right track?

not bad...

 

[Cesc Fabregas]

Gorecki comes in with a unfunny remark- check.

 

[15_ounce]

Yes, I absolutely agree with the idea of a beeping timer telling a tennis player that time is up to do a serve. This will solve the problem and a player like Rafa and Sharapova will have to flick their hair quicker and pick that butt faster.

 

[Rippy]

It's also a faulty argument to say it's boring. Attendances and crowd reaction at his matches would indicate otherwise.

It's not a faulty argument at all. If one person finds it boring, then they're correct to say that it's boring in their opinion.

Also, just because one part of Rafa's game is boring doesn't mean his matches are boring. I find his timewasting boring, but his shots exciting... I'm guessing people are willing to put up with the timewasting, but I highly doubt people actually enjoy it. They see it as a necessary evil.

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

Check out the exo he lost before RG(one set 6-4),he was taking his time there as well. And butt picking as well

you are right, he was also doing it in this 4 sets exhibition against soderling in paris.

status so far:



not bad...

you forgot me posting too, to release a bit of by visceral nadal hate, M.

PS: by the way, drak is late.

 

[sh@de]

Gorecki comes in with a unfunny remark- check.

Gorecki, you forgot Cesc, who injured himself last night against Barca (what a noob), would come in to try and spoil your day. Failing miserably at it of course.

 

[bolo]

I would love to see the shot clock put in as it stands now. There would be so many exceptions they would increase the time alloted in between points in no time. Ofcourse then players would start adapting to the new shot clock and you would have to believe that there is a small chance that overall matchtimes might actually increase.

Once you put in a clock it will also be very interesting to see what happens to the crowd noise.

 

[dropshot winner]

I would love to see the shot clock put in as it stands now. There would be so many exceptions they would increase the time alloted in between points in no time. Ofcourse then players would start adapting to the new shot clock and you would have to believe that there is a small chance that overall matchtimes might actually increase.

Once you put in a clock it will also be very interesting to see what happens to the crowd noise.

What exceptions except for a medical timeout are you talking about? And how would overall matchtime increase?

If a player wants to argue with the umpire he has 30 seconds time for it until he gets a warning, if he keeps arguing he losses a point and then a game. It's really simple, wouldn't affect most players and force others to speed up their game. I bet the "points played per minute"-rate would increase.

 

[auburnlull]

It's not a faulty argument at all. If one person finds it boring, then they're correct to say that it's boring in their opinion.

Also, just because one part of Rafa's game is boring doesn't mean his matches are boring. I find his timewasting boring, but his shots exciting... I'm guessing people are willing to put up with the timewasting, but I highly doubt people actually enjoy it. They see it as a necessary evil.

You are wrong in my case. Tennis is such a fast sport compared to almost all others. A few extra seconds when you know action is imminent just builds tension and drama. Think about why baseball is hypnotic to so many. The moment before the pitch allows the moment to build and gives the announcers time to build it even further. Baseball goes overboard into boredom much of the time but that is because there is so little action overall. Tennis needs the breathing room of different paces. Did you all ever wonder why Roddick's matches are kind of dull? His rapid points are part of the problem. We don't "see" him tapping into his tennis data bank the way more strategic players do. Tsonga may have lost the match last night because he played some critical points in a way that seemed to the announcers and myself like he didn't register the gravity of the moment the way a better player would. There is a bias on these boards against all styles of play that do not reflect the fast-twitch, frenetic pacing of all media products these days. I like tennis to have its own natural hybrid rhythm to take me away from all that. The 120 mph serves and 90 mph groundstrokes come soon enough. You people need to chill and realize that this law was made to be bent and broken like the 55mph speed limit. It is a useful hypocrisy that is a part of all systems of rules.

 

[namelessone]

I'm guessing people are willing to put up with the timewasting, but I highly doubt people actually enjoy it. They see it as a necessary evil.

And bingo,we have a winner!!!

No one,not even the most ardent Nadal fan,likes time-wasting. I have never heard anyone say "oh rafa why did you only take 25-30 seconds? We need at least 40 sec" but as others have pointed out,Nadal would not be Nadal without it me thinks. He has been doing this since at least 4 years ago. He finds his "colm"(which he is always talking about) this way,by going a bit slower and doing his "thing". This is a problem for people who like their tennis fast.

I'm a Nadal fan and I wish he could go faster,that he would not tug at his backside,that he would develop a serve and so on. But I gave up hope on those things a long time ago and accepted him for what he is,a talented tennis player with quirks.

Statto pointed out two very truthful things about the time-wasting bit:

1)A lot of guys pass the 25 limit mark frequently. Nadal is worse by going to 40,sometimes 50 but this rule should be changed to 30-35 seconds,especially in today's tennis where there are long rallies ON ALL SURFACES.

2)The fact that many players don't mind. Guys who like to go fast mind but see,most guys want some 5-10 extra seconds to catch their breath after rallies(especially since rallies are actually extra long with rafa) and they really don't care about waiting a bit more or don't show it.

3)Audiences don't seem to mind as they flock to his matches and as far as I can see many people around here go to his match threads and not only.

The only conclusion I can draw from this is that all this is a huge conspiracy by the ATP,media,viewers,players to let Rafa off the hook with those extra seconds each time. Ask anyone and they will tell you that Rafa takes his time so it is common knowledge. Yet,no one is taking any steps in stopping time abuse from happening some so apparently it such a big issue as others are making it out to be.

 

[angiebaby]

Bottom line, there is a deliberate act by Nadal to go over the alloted time. Yes or no?

I actually don't think it's a deliberate thing. I think it depends on his nervousness/excitement on the day. For exhibition matches, there's no pressure or stress or tension or expectation so it happens far less than in regular matches. I honestly don't think Rafa sets out with a deliberate intent to 'waste time', it's probably just his OCD level fluctuating depending on how he feels about a match.

That said, it's really up to the umpire to call it and they don't. It's their discretion isn't it? And they can't ALL be Nadal ass-kissers. So that theory doesn't hold much water. And as annoying as it might be for certain opponents or fans watching (it really doesn't bother me and wouldn't bother me WHOEVER was taking their time serving), do people honestly believe it affects the outcome of a game/match? Come on now.:?

 

[bolo]

What exceptions except for a medical timeout are you talking about? And how would overall matchtime increase?

If a player wants to argue with the umpire he has 30 seconds time for it until he gets a warning, if he keeps arguing he losses a point and then a game. It's really simple, wouldn't affect most players and force others to speed up their game. I bet the "points played per minute"-rate would increase.

Crowdnoise/interference is going to be the big problem imo (will this be a bigger problem on the smaller courts?). That's also going to cause some unpleasantness between the ref. and players because there are going to be disagreements about whether something was really crowd interference (from possibly both the server/receiver).

Also how is the clock going to deal with long points where players need some time to recover? Right now everyone (ref./players) realizes more time is needed in these few instances but what will happen if a shot clock is instituted?

These are just two things off the top of my head. I would like to hear what woodrow (a ref. who posts around here) sees as the costs/benefits of instituting a shot clock.

 

[dropshot winner]

Crowdnoise/interference is going to be the big problem imo (will this be a bigger problem on the smaller courts?). That's also going to cause some unpleasantness between the ref. and players because there are going to be disagreements about whether something was really crowd interference (from possibly both the server/receiver).

Also how is the clock going to deal with long points where players need some time to recover? Right now everyone (ref./players) realizes more time is needed in these few instances but what will happen if a shot clock is instituted?

These are just two things off the top of my head. I would like to hear what woodrow (a ref. who posts around here) sees as the costs/benefits of instituting a shot clock.

The umpire can quiet down the crowd 10-15 seconds before the allowed timelimit is over. In most cases a "please be quiet" is effective within 1, 2 seconds.
If some crowd really is unwilling to be quiet you'll have a problem whetever you have a enforced timelimit or not.

A timelimit of lets say 40 seconds would be easily enough for long points.
Under those rules a player could do 30 seconds nothing else than take some deep breaths and still have 10 seconds left to serve.

 

[Deleted member 21996]

Gorecki comes in with a unfunny remark- check.

i love you too Cesc...

 

[Rippy]

I actually don't think it's a deliberate thing. I think it depends on his nervousness/excitement on the day. For exhibition matches, there's no pressure or stress or tension or expectation so it happens far less than in regular matches. I honestly don't think Rafa sets out with a deliberate intent to 'waste time', it's probably just his OCD level fluctuating depending on how he feels about a match.

That said, it's really up to the umpire to call it and they don't. It's their discretion isn't it? And they can't ALL be Nadal ass-kissers. So that theory doesn't hold much water. And as annoying as it might be for certain opponents or fans watching (it really doesn't bother me and wouldn't bother me WHOEVER was taking their time serving), do people honestly believe it affects the outcome of a game/match? Come on now.:?

Whoever said umpires were Nadal ass-kissers? It's just that umpires seem to be afraid of calling time violations.

 

[Deleted member 21996]

you are right, he was also doing it in this 4 sets exhibition against soderling in paris.

you forgot me posting too, to release a bit of by visceral nadal hate, M.

PS: by the way, drak is late.

yes i did. i apologize for such mistake...

i am sad because all i do is to make friend with cesc but he seems to hate me in visceral fashion... despite what shade might say about me trying to **** of cesc or the other way around! not true!

cesc... can we be "frenz"....

drak... where art´ thou...

 

[rafan]

I disagree with that. People come to watch him play tennis, not pick his butt. Him timewasting slows down the tennis, making it less exciting to watch.

If this is true then why do they continue to support him and fill the stands.

 

[dropshot winner]

If this is true then why do they continue to support him and fill the stands.

They support him despite those things, not because of it.

Tiger Woods still has many fans, but not because he banged all those women, despite it.

 

[Jeannie_Berry]

The best way about it is for the opponent to bring it up to the umpire prior to the match, rather than bringing it up at a juncture during the match which will just escalate a situation. Regardless, if there is a rule then somebody is not following it then the player should be warned, meaning the rule should be enforced, especially if the other party is observing that rule.

You are so right... Everyone should follow the rules and regulation of the game no matter what. Rules will always be rules.

 

[TennisFan008]

I agree, it's not up to Nadal the cheater to follow the rules, but rather for the umps to enforce the rules. Get some backbone umps!

Yes, an athlete of questionable morals, like Rafa, will continue to cheat as long as he feels he can get away with it. It's time for the umpires to recover from their severe, mass-hypogonadism and do their f*cking job!

 

[TennisFan008]

Bottom line, there is a deliberate act by Nadal to go over the alloted time. Yes or no?

Yes, it is indeed deliberate. Someone should dig up that quote in which Nadal talks about his time-wasting. He said he used to be quick between points, but tio Toni told him to take his time and Rafa feels it benefits him.

 

[CMM]

Yes, an athlete of questionable morals, like Rafa

:roll:...................

 

[TennisFan008]

The worst thing is that he's even slower than usual before important points.

 

[JennyS]

The worst thing is that he's even slower than usual before important points.

Andy Roddick will not be thrilled

 

[tarasb22]

Not sure what is "time rule" that OP mentions and what is time limit, but I, while watching tennis on TV or live, never ever thought that Rafa is taking too much time. It's not that I didnt care about it, I just never has this thought (and honestly, now that I read that some find it annoying, I dont care )

And I suppose that majority of ppl watching tennis feel the same.

 

[CMM]

- CMM posts a nice picture of nadal trying to prove he is not what people say...

It's nice that you still remember this.

 

[drakulie]

^^why is he taking that woman's last change?

 

[rommil]

It's nice that you still remember this.

This is Rafa giving Veronquem a few pesetas for a job well done here on TTW. Notice Rafa's expression like " here's the money, get the f*ck outa here!".

 

[Bittabonga]

^^why is he taking that woman's last change?

Its a tip dipschit.

 

[Deleted member 21996]

^^why is he taking that woman's last change?

It's nice that you still remember this.

- Zagor is the only guy who posts anything worth reading

- CMM posts a nice picture of nadal trying to prove he is not what people say...

- Drakulie does the same but funnier...

check
check

only ZAG is making me look bad...

 

[dropshot winner]

Its a tip dipschit.

Probably just 50 cents. He can only hope no one tells Agassi

 

[rommil]

I actually don't think it's a deliberate thing. I think it depends on his nervousness/excitement on the day. For exhibition matches, there's no pressure or stress or tension or expectation so it happens far less than in regular matches. I honestly don't think Rafa sets out with a deliberate intent to 'waste time', it's probably just his OCD level fluctuating depending on how he feels about a match.

That said, it's really up to the umpire to call it and they don't. It's their discretion isn't it? And they can't ALL be Nadal ass-kissers. So that theory doesn't hold much water. And as annoying as it might be for certain opponents or fans watching (it really doesn't bother me and wouldn't bother me WHOEVER was taking their time serving), do people honestly believe it affects the outcome of a game/match? Come on now.:?

What you actually don't think, what you think and what you honestly don't think is not the issue here. Whatever Rafa's reasons are is not the issue either. You're telling me that this person who does this for a living day in and day out, someone very adept to a lot of things in the sport, someone who got on top of the rankings, somebody who has been warned about it a couple of times, is not aware of what he is doing on court? I am not going to argue that it should be enforced because it looks like it won't be and it seems the more reason Nadal is doing it. OCD? He doesn't pick his butt in public or outside the tennis courts does he? In fact I saw him practice at Indian Wells few weeks ago and he was not doing these antics.
Again, take away everything else, it still comes down to the fact. Nadal is exercising deliberate acts that go over the time limit.

 

[Deleted member 21996]

Probably just 50 cents. He can only hope no one tells Agassi

 

[Pink_Shirt]

The way I see it, if his opponents complain about how long he takes to serve..they should do the same thing. Take advantage of it, make Nadal wait.