Rafael Nadal: ´Novak Djokovic the Toughest Opponent I Ever Had´

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Deleted member 77403

Guest
There can be no more debate after Wimbledon 2015 who Djokovic has hurt more. There's a lot of crap peddled on here that doesn't really stand up.

I have to agree with this, after Wimbledon the debate was over. Djokovic has hurt Roger pretty badly.

Djokovic has prevented Federer from outright owning the record at AO, W and probaby even USO, considering how well Federer played in 2011.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
If I am going to be perfectly honest with you, I actually felt sad for Rafa. I don't know what it was, maybe it was seeing the champion finally defeated. You wait so long for it to happen, and when it does, it doesn't feel as good as you had imagined. Maybe it was all the respect and admiration I have for Rafa, that finally overwhelmed what I was hoping for all these years, watching a great champion rise and fall before you, having gone on his journey. The moment in that sense becomes a lot bigger.

It was anti climatic that's probably part of it. If Djokovic had won the SF in 2013 I reckon you would have been elated.
 

cknobman

Legend
Rafa only speaks the truth.

Novak has been a far tougher opponent for him than Fed.

I think that Rafa has had some better matches (quality) vs Fed but in terms of overall Novak has been the tougher opponent.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
It was anti climatic that's probably part of it. If Djokovic had won the SF in 2013 I reckon you would have been elated.

Yeah, you're probably right. I guess we'll never know.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
It was anti climatic that's probably part of it. If Djokovic had won the SF in 2013 I reckon you would have been elated.
Yeah, not gonna deny that a win that year would've been far more satisfying than when he beat Nadal a few months ago, considering how much closer to his best the Spaniard was in 2013.
 
I have to agree with this, after Wimbledon the debate was over. Djokovic has hurt Roger pretty badly.

Djokovic has prevented Federer from outright owning the record at AO, W and probaby even USO, considering how well Federer played in 2011.

no way man......nadal hurted federer much more than nole, because he denied many slams to him and in peak ages.

for the opposite, djokovic hurted 100% nadal´s life, if wasn´t for nole, nadal now would has maybe 20 slams.

federer not even in his dreams would beat nadal in USO 2O11.......

in that case, federer and nadal HURTED NOLE PRETTY BADLY MUCH MORE THAN HIM HURTING THESE TWO, IF FEDAL WOULD´T BE THERE, DJOKOVIC WOULD BE CAPABLE TO WIN MUCH MORE SLAMS SINCE 2007 TO NOW
 

Inanimate_object

Hall of Fame
no way man......nadal hurted federer much more than nole, because he denied many slams to him and in peak ages.

for the opposite, djokovic hurted 100% nadal´s life, if wasn´t for nole, nadal now would has maybe 20 slams.

federer not even in his dreams would beat nadal in USO 2O11.......

in that case, federer and nadal HURTED NOLE PRETTY BADLY MUCH MORE THAN HIM HURTING THESE TWO, IF FEDAL WOULD´T BE THERE, DJOKOVIC WOULD BE CAPABLE TO WIN MUCH MORE SLAMS SINCE 2007 TO NOW
I don't understand. Please use more caps.
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
The real rivalry from 2010 onwards has been "Nadal vs Novak". Federer has been playing second fiddle for a while now.

I don't know about that--we are looking at a huge decline for Nadal and the other guys are the top 2 players ATM. We are currently in the Djokerer Era...

The Djoker-Nadal domination didn't actually last that long, it was really 2011-2013.

If I am going to be perfectly honest with you, I actually felt sad for Rafa. I don't know what it was, maybe it was seeing the champion finally defeated. You wait so long for it to happen, and when it does, it doesn't feel as good as you had imagined.

Agree.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
no way man......nadal hurted federer much more than nole, because he denied many slams to him and in peak ages.

for the opposite, djokovic hurted 100% nadal´s life, if wasn´t for nole, nadal now would has maybe 20 slams.

federer not even in his dreams would beat nadal in USO 2O11.......

in that case, federer and nadal HURTED NOLE PRETTY BADLY MUCH MORE THAN HIM HURTING THESE TWO, IF FEDAL WOULD´T BE THERE, DJOKOVIC WOULD BE CAPABLE TO WIN MUCH MORE SLAMS SINCE 2007 TO NOW

Are you posting while drunk/high?
 

LazyNinja19

Banned
no way man......nadal hurted federer much more than nole, because he denied many slams to him and in peak ages.

for the opposite, djokovic hurted 100% nadal´s life, if wasn´t for nole, nadal now would has maybe 20 slams.

federer not even in his dreams would beat nadal in USO 2O11.......

in that case, federer and nadal HURTED NOLE PRETTY BADLY MUCH MORE THAN HIM HURTING THESE TWO, IF FEDAL WOULD´T BE THERE, DJOKOVIC WOULD BE CAPABLE TO WIN MUCH MORE SLAMS SINCE 2007 TO NOW

This post has hurted my brain.
 
That is kind of a no sh1t Sherlock kind of statement. Federer fans shouldnt even question it. It is clear Djokovic is Nadal's toughest personal opponent. He has a much harder time facing him in general than Federer or any of the top players of his time. Even 2005 or 2006 Federer, Nadal would take facing over Djokovic of 2011 or 2015 in a heartbeat.
 
Did he really use the word "equilibrium"?

Anyway, what difference does it make who he thinks was his toughest opponent? What does it change?

Btw Nadal had 5 years on Federer, when Federer was beginning to decline in 2008 Nadal started to reach his peak, he beat him in a few very close matches. Now in 2011 Djokovic reached his peak and Nadal began to slightly decline. You can't really make a fair comparison unless all 3 played against each other at their peaks.

Nadal never trailed his head to head with Federer for a moment. They began playing when Federer was peak and Nadal was 17, and not once has he behind. He even quickly went down 6-1 (lol) and got to 6-8 but that is the closest he ever came. You cant even use the only clay excuse when he lost 2 of their first 3 non clay matches, but even more importantly peak Djokovic was quite often beating Nadal on clay too anyway. In 2011 Nadal was still at his best, better than he was in 2005-2007 in fact, and lost 7 matches in a row to Djokovic, on all type of surfaces including twice in a row in straight sets on clay.

As I said that Djokovic is a tougher opponent than Federer for Nadal is a no brainer. It doesnt mean much, but it shouldnt even be debated one bit.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Mate, I ain't insulting anybody. I am an Aussie, and mentioned 2 Aussies in the above post. But I ain't dumb enough to even think that Hewitt or Phillipousis are in the same stratosphere as Novak, Nadal, or even Murray for that matter.
You can't prove that. And even if it's true, so what? Federer has competed against more top players than Nadal in his career. Nole is every bit of Federer's rival(if not more) than Nadal. He met Federer 13 times at the slams, 4 WTF, and 15 Masters. Also, Murray met Federer more times than Nadal, despite being 6 years older. At the slams, Murray is 2-7 against Nadal, 1-5 against Federer.

So much myth about Nadal had it harder. When taken all the great players they have to endured throughout their career, Federer had more obstacles.
 
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Fedfan34

Guest
Fed has been Rafa's bunny for a while now. This is nothing new.
 

xan

Hall of Fame
It was anti climatic that's probably part of it. If Djokovic had won the SF in 2013 I reckon you would have been elated.
that was a final as long as tennis world is concerned.

oh and @ speculations of what if, well if my potato had wheels it would be a car.
 
F

Fedfan34

Guest
Translation: " It was an honor to whip on Fed 23 times in 33 matches . Fed is no GOAT and wasn't that difficult to beat"


... If Nadal was being honest that is.
I'm curious how often you honestly believe Pete would beat Humbalito...in THIS era, with THESE courts?
You know he's going to win zero clay matches, and his low seeding might actually guarantee he's Rafa's whipping boy in the early rounds of clay events.
You know he's going to get squished on the the Uber slow Aussie Open courts.
You know the way the US Open courts play, Humbalito is going to have ample ability to abuse Pete's funny looking backhand and make him run as he never had to run before.
And you know there's no guarantee of a dominant record on this "slow" grass either.
And you know the courts are going to neutralize Pete's big serve to a large degree as well.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
How many of those slams were post 2008 ?

14 slams against Roddick, Safin, Phillipousis, an aging and aching Agassi, Nalbandian, Hewitt.

You said age can't be a factor, why are you being a massive hypocrite here? Also, Fed won 4 slams post 2008, Sampras won 3 slams past 1998 (they're exactly 10 year apart in age).
 

ultradr

Legend
Djokovic maintains certain playing level almost always in any situation.

You can put Federer in his lower gear if you can prevent him from leading the score.
(Of course, not many people can do that. He raises his level (Fed fans call it GOAT mode) usually after he leads the score. by that time you are dead meat unless you are Nadal)

Nadal always tries to win with his minimum possible gear, unless he is in real danger to lose a match (that's when he usually (used to be able to) raises his level, which is why some people dubbed him as "clutch" player).

This is part of equation between these 3 players, IMHO.

I think this is part of the reasons why Nadal often needs to take risk toward later part of a match against Djokovic while he can successfully put Federer in control in a long draining match).
 
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I have to agree with this, after Wimbledon the debate was over. Djokovic has hurt Roger pretty badly.

Djokovic has prevented Federer from outright owning the record at AO, W and probaby even USO, considering how well Federer played in 2011.

The all time U.S Open record is 7 and 3 different men hold it. 2 are kind of iffy, but Tilden's mark is atleast fully legit. Also Federer ever beating Nadal in a slam final post 2009 is a dicey prospect at best. I wouldnt say it is ever likely, even if in 2011 he would have more of a fighting chance than if they played in 2010.
 
There can be no more debate after Wimbledon 2015 who Djokovic has hurt more. There's a lot of crap peddled on here that doesn't really stand up.

I guess it could be argued Djokovic cost Nadal 3 majors- the 3 he lost to Djokovic in the final. RG 2015 is a write off as Nadal was clearly not winning that.

It could also be argued Djokovic only cost Federer 3 majors, the last 2 Wimbledons and the 2011 Australian Open. In which case it would be a tie.

However that would be a best case for Nadal and worst for Federer.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
I guess it could be argued Djokovic cost Nadal 3 majors- the 3 he lost to Djokovic in the final. RG 2015 is a write off as Nadal was clearly not winning that.

It could also be argued Djokovic only cost Federer 3 majors, the last 2 Wimbledons and the 2011 Australian Open. In which case it would be a tie.

However that would be a best case for Nadal and worst for Federer.

I think Fed would have also won 2008 AO. Fed wasn't in best form but he still handled Berdych and Blake (power players) and it still took an on fire Novak (who played some of his best career tennis in that tourney) to knock him out of the tournament, of course he could have gone down to Janko but that's about the time Fed started to struggle in early rounds in HC slams anyway. I think he would have had atleast 50-50 chance against Jo in the final (better chance than I would have given him against Nadal in potential 2011 USO F to be honest).

Of course, another way to look at it, Novak stopping Nadal's momentum in 2011 goes beyond just denying him 2 slams that year and his draining 2009 Madrid SF with Rafa might have helped Soderling take him out at the FO later.
 
I think Fed would have also won 2008 AO. Fed wasn't in best form but he still handled Berdych and Blake (power players) and it still took an on fire Novak (who played some of his best career tennis in that tourney) to knock him out of the tournament, of course he could have gone down to Janko but that's about the time Fed started to struggle in early rounds in HC slams anyway. I think he would have had atleast 50-50 chance against Jo in the final (better chance than I would have given him against Nadal in potential 2011 USO F to be honest).

Of course, another way to look at it, Novak stopping Nadal's momentum in 2011 goes beyond just denying him 2 slams that year and his draining 2009 Madrid SF with Rafa might have helped Soderling take him out at the FO later.

That is true. I think without that insane Madrid match, Nadal quite possibly wins RG 2009 and maybe even Wimbledon 2009 (and that is not only 2 more slams but 2 less for Federer and a 4 slam swing). There are so many ways things could change. Also it could be argued he pushed himself so hard to get back on top of Djokovic again in early 2012 it led to his injuries that caused him to miss 2 slams.

Regarding the 2008 Australian Open I agree, and that was what I meant when I said 3 (before speculating on chain effects related to Djokovic like the ones above) would be best case for Nadal and worst for Federer. I do think Tsonga was playing a higher level than Roger at the 2008 Australian Open for sure, but he was arguably even playing at a higher level than Djokovic and still lost, and nerves were definitely a factor in that final. Obviously Federer had no chance of winning events like 2012 RG or 2010 U.S Open over Nadal, but you could argue he had a shot at the 2008 Australian Open and even 2011 U.S Open perhaps, along with the 3 fairly safe ones of 2011 Australian, 2014 Wimbledon, 2015 Wimbledon. Whereas with Nadal while he could well have won all 3 slams he lost to Djokovic in the final, you could argue Federer having a chance at the 2011 U.S Open and even Murray at the 2012 Australian Open. However since Nadal was a combined 4-0 vs Federer and Murray in slams from 2011 French Open-2012 Australian Open I would back him for those, but I guess one could argue atleast.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Players today are fitter, stronger and more eager to win matches than 5 or 10 years ago.

"More eager?" This is absurd. As if Rod Laver, Lew Hoad, Don Budge or Bill Tilden weren't just as eager to win matches 40, 50, 80 years ago?

I also would dispute players are more fit today than 5-10 years ago. Stronger, sure, but some of that is due to illegal substances and PED's, which aide recovery time. Not that all players use them, but many, many do.
 

timnz

Legend
Nadal is not saying this in his interview.

Nadal played Federer at Federer's peak. He has also played Djokovic at his peak. So he is basically saying that between the two, Djokovic is a harder player to play against. Simple.
A harder player for him (Nadal), that is. It is an important distinction. Djokovic match-up for Nadal was harder given Djokovic's movement and ability to handle Nadal cross court forehand to Novak's backhand.
 

JustBob

Hall of Fame
Nadal's technique and shot selection has improved a boatload over the last 2 or 3 years and right now he's at his best.

laughing-o.gif
 

90's Clay

Banned
One thing to point out.. We have never really seen peak Nole vs. Peak Rafa. When Nole hit his stride in 2011 Nadal was already past his (at least BEST level of play which IMO ended in 2010) . So who knows.. Maybe the Rafaole h2h would be similar to the Fed/Nadal h2h.
 
Nadal was not past his best in 2011. I am sick of hearing that. That was definitely prime Nadal, if not even peak Nadal.

He was better on clay in 2008 and 2012 for sure, but he was pretty much on par with any of 2006, 2007, 2010, 2013, and better than 2009, 2014 and 2005 on clay.

On hard courts he was arguably better in 2008, 2010, 2013, but still very much at his best level on the surface (well not at the Australian Open and WTF, but everywhere else).

On grass he was really good, and only clearly better in 2007 and 2008.

This thread it seems the Nadal fans and Federer fans who are usualy at war or joining hands and forces on that myth though in order to make Federer (poor showings vs Nadal, especialy relative to Djokovic, validating Nadal's claims) and Nadal (***** silly by Djokovic for 15 months) look better.
 

90's Clay

Banned
Definitely not peak Nadal. As peak Nadal was in the mid 08-Early 09 range. In terms of absolute high level I would NOT put 2011 Nadal as better than 08-10 Nadal on grass nor does 2011 Hardcourt Nadal equal to 2009-2010 Hardcourt Nadal. None of his performances in 2011 were better than his Australian 2009 or USO 2010 performance. NONE of them. And non sense. Not even his 2013 North American Hardcourt form.


And we sure as hell know 2011 Nadal wasn't as on clay as the Nadal prior to that.


Like I said, 2011 his level was slipping and it hasn't been the same since.
 
So peak only lasts 8 months. Ridiculous. If Nadal only had an 8 month peak he wouldnt be an all time great to begin with. 2011 was an excellent year of tennis for Nadal, outside of the start (Australian Open) and finish (WTF) where he was visibly sluggish. Otherwise he was was more than solid, but was Djokered throughout the year. Yes he has had individual years of better performances on every surface, but the list is fairly short for each. The only years he was probably in equal or better form across all surfaces would be 2008 and 2010.
 

90's Clay

Banned
So peak only lasts 8 months. Ridiculous. If Nadal only had an 8 month peak he wouldnt be an all time great to begin with. 2011 was an excellent year of tennis for Nadal, outside of the start (Australian Open) and finish (WTF) where he was visibly sluggish. Otherwise he was was more than solid, but was Djokered throughout the year. Yes he has had individual years of better performances on every surface, but the list is fairly short for each. The only years he was probably in equal or better form across all surfaces would be 2008 and 2010.


Peak as in absolute highest level attained? Yea I would say Mid 08-early 09 was Nadal's highest level ever.


I see no argument on ANY of the surfaces in 2011 where Nadal was at his historical best.

Hards- Nope. He was superior the year before in Flushing (2010 USO being his peak level) and 2009 AO
Grass- Not even close. Far superior in 2008 and better in 2010
Clay- He wasn't even that great on clay in 2011. Hes a numerous years on clay with better level and form than in 2011
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
One thing to point out.. We have never really seen peak Nole vs. Peak Rafa. When Nole hit his stride in 2011 Nadal was already past his (at least BEST level of play which IMO ended in 2010) . So who knows.. Maybe the Rafaole h2h would be similar to the Fed/Nadal h2h.

Yes we have, in 2011. But hey, if you wanna play that game then Fed was past his absolute best in 2008 and 2009 as well.

If Novak doesn't get full credit for his 2011 then neither does Nadal for 2008 Wimbledon and 2009 AO.
 

90's Clay

Banned
Yes we have, in 2011. But hey, if you wanna play that game then Fed was past his absolute best in 2008 and 2009 as well.

If Novak doesn't get full credit for his 2011 then neither does Nadal for 2008 Wimbledon and 2009 AO.


Really?? On what surface was Nadal at his peak in 2011 exactly?
 

timnz

Legend
Nadal - Peak Clay - 2008, Peak Grass - 2008, Peak Hard Court (North American Hard Court season) 2013. Near Peak on Clay, Grass and Hard - 2010. Peak Indoor 2013.

Nadal Prime - 2005 to possibly 2014 French Open OR present (if he gets to the US Open final or wins the WTF).
 

90's Clay

Banned
On what surfaces was Fed at his peak in 2008 and 2009 exactly? Player's peak isn't one tourney or one year.


I never said Fed was at his peak in 2008/2009. Just as Nadal was never at his in 2011.


How can you be at an overall peak when there isn;t even ONE surface you're playing peak level on? Makes no sense to me
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Wow, when you put it like that..........:eek:

Yep, there's no Djokovic - Federer probably wins the 2008 and 2011 AO. Wimbledon in 2014 and 2015. US Open not sure because Nadal was waiting in a final but Federer still played great in both the 2010 and 2011 US Opens so he might get at least 1 win. That's 4-5 Slams which would put Federer at 21-22.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
I never said Fed was at his peak in 2008/2009. Just as Nadal was never at his in 2011.


How can you be at an overall peak when there isn;t even ONE surface you're playing peak level on? Makes no sense to me

Yeah, gonna hold you for that there in future discussions. Guess we don't know how peak Fedal would go in HC slams and Wimbledon either then? I mean both matches (2008 Wimbledon and 2009 AO) went 5 sets while Novak took care off Nadal in 4 sets at both USO and WImbledon in 2011.
 

90's Clay

Banned
Yeah, gonna hold you for that there in future discussions. Guess we don't know how peak Fedal would go in HC slams and Wimbledon either then? I mean both matches (2008 Wimbledon and 2009 AO) went 5 sets while Novak took care off Nadal in 4 sets at both USO and WImbledon in 2011.


Well considering Nadal was whipping on Fed on HC's dating all the way back to 2004. I would assume Nadal would have his way 9 times out of 10 vs. Fed Peak for Peak on probably ALL outdoor surfaces. The only place Fed has the advantage truly is indoors
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Well considering Nadal was whipping on Fed on HC's dating all the way back to 2004. I would assume Nadal would have his way 9 times out of 10 vs. Fed Peak for Peak on probably ALL outdoor surfaces. The only place Fed has the advantage truly is indoors

Then why did he need 5 sets to beat non-peak Fed at both outdoor Wimbledon and AO? Furthemore, why did Novak need only 4 sets to do the same to Nadal at Wimbledon and USO in 2011?

Yet peak for peak Nadal would win 9 out of 10 against Fed but we supposedly don't know how Rafole H2H would go.
 
Yep, there's no Djokovic - Federer probably wins the 2008 and 2011 AO. Wimbledon in 2014 and 2015. US Open not sure because Nadal was waiting in a final but Federer still played great in both the 2010 and 2011 US Opens so he might get at least 1 win. That's 4-5 Slams which would put Federer at 21-22.

Fed wasn't playing great at the 2010 US Open at all. He made 65 unforced errors or something in the semis vs Djokovic, which was necessary for him to lose to Djokovic having his worst year he has still had from 2007 onwards and low on confidence. I don't remember all his other matches, but I don't remember thinking he was playing that well. Nadal was serving 135 mph (which for him is outrageous) frequenly on the 1st serve and playing probably his best hard court tennis ever there. Federer was never winning that one.

I agree he had some shot in 2011.
 

chjtennis

G.O.A.T.
Well considering Nadal was whipping on Fed on HC's dating all the way back to 2004. I would assume Nadal would have his way 9 times out of 10 vs. Fed Peak for Peak on probably ALL outdoor surfaces. The only place Fed has the advantage truly is indoors

Too little of a sample in 2004-2007 between Federer and Nadal on HC to correctly call who was superior. It's like Simon had the upper hand H2H against Federer early but as they played against each other more, it has been corrected and now Federer is leading clearly. Murray also had beaten Federer in HC M1000s early in his career, but Federer eventually corrected that as well. I am 100% certain(although there's no way to prove it), that had Nadal been more successful on other surfaces than clay earlier, that would've made Fedal H2H much closer than now.
 

90's Clay

Banned
Too little of a sample in 2004-2007 between Federer and Nadal on HC to correctly call who was superior. It's like Simon had the upper hand H2H against Federer early but as they played against each other more, it has been corrected and now Federer is leading clearly. Murray also had beaten Federer in HC M1000s early in his career, but Federer eventually corrected that as well. I am 100% certain(although there's no way to prove it), that had Nadal been more successful on other surfaces than clay earlier, that would've made Fedal H2H much closer than now.


But what is Fed gonna "correct" against Nadal? He has never figured Nadal out after 33 freakin matches.
 
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