Rafael Nadal one of the most underappreciated players in history.

NadalandFedererfan

NadalandFedererfan

Banned
For what he has accomplished, and the amount people try to diminish his achievements, I think Rafael "Rafa" Nadal may be one of the most underappreciated players in history. I mean the kid has won 3 French Opens, pushed Federer hard in 2 Wimbledon finals, won all these Masters titles on hard courts, hasnt lost before the quarters of a slam in a long time, and people still look to diminish all that he is doing, and how great it is.
 
T

tennis_hand

Hall of Fame
compared to Fed, he is under appreciated. the same like Hewitt and Safin.
when there is a guy who is much better, people don't appreciated them much.
 
NadalandFedererfan

NadalandFedererfan

Banned
Federer is not so much better then Nadal right now it seems. Nadal is threatening his #1 ranking with much severity. Nadal leads their head to head 8-5. Nadal almost beat him at Wimbledon, after beating him at the French Open.

You cant compare Hewitt and Safin to Nadal. Hewitt is coming back with some good tennis but he still is struggling to get back to a top 10 ranking. Safin is done, finit, stick a fork in him. Nadal has already had a better career then Safin as well, and maybe Hewitt.
 
Bogie

Bogie

Hall of Fame
NadalandFedererfan said:
Nadal almost beat him at Wimbledon, after beating him at the French Open.

You cant compare Hewitt and Safin to Nadal. Hewitt is coming back with some good tennis but he still is struggling to get back to a top 10 ranking. Safin is done, finit, stick a fork in him. Nadal has already had a better career then Safin as well, and maybe Hewitt.
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firstly, almost doesn't count. if you want to look at it that way federer almost beat him in the finals of rome last year and even had a mp on him so fed actually came closer to beating nadal on his favorite surface than vice versa. but that doesn't really count for anything at all.

secondly, you most definitely can compare hewitt and his results to those of nadal. hewitt has 26 titles to nadal's 23. hewitt is 4-3 vs. nadal. hewitt has 17 million in prize money to nadal's 12. hewitt has held the #1 ranking for 75 weeks straight. nadal's overall record is 242-61 bringing his winning % to 79 % while hewitt's overall record is 460-147 bringing his winning % to 75%. so when nadal achieves some of the things that hewitt has, then compare because at this point, nadal is a ways away from hewitt.
 
B

BlackgirlX

Banned
Nadal reminds me of Lleyton Hewitt there is nothing remarkable or exciting abouit his game. I mean the wannabe macho muscle flexes are lame and the grunting reminds me of the WTA tour. Nadal just looks like a more advanced version of Lleyton. Nadal has a bit more power but his serve is still whack. If Nadal wants to get better he needs a bigger serve. I mean the guy has very strong and muscular yet he doesn't have a powerful serve? Strange. Nadal is young and right now he can run around like a chicken all day long. But when Nadal reaches 24 or beyond we will see. I recall five or six years ago people went on and on about Hewitt and look at Hewitt now. Hewitt can fight all he wants but you need more then just speed and heart you need serious power. Nadal has power but not the serve. Nadal also plays too defensive sometimes.
 
T

tennis_hand

Hall of Fame
NadalandFedererfan said:
Federer is not so much better then Nadal right now it seems. Nadal is threatening his #1 ranking with much severity. Nadal leads their head to head 8-5. Nadal almost beat him at Wimbledon, after beating him at the French Open.

You cant compare Hewitt and Safin to Nadal. Hewitt is coming back with some good tennis but he still is struggling to get back to a top 10 ranking. Safin is done, finit, stick a fork in him. Nadal has already had a better career then Safin as well, and maybe Hewitt.
Click to expand...

after reading ur first sentence, i know u are BSing.
 
S

seestern

Rookie
For me, such thread is ridiculous.
Nadal is just beginning his carrier. So there should not be any conclusion like "underappreciate". Let's talk about it 5 years later on if you have a chance. The only chance is the case Nadal would get injury that detroys his game. Otherwise with his improvement, he certaintly will run less -> move more effective, servers stronger and read server well.
Even a great Fed did not have his perfection at age 23.
Give the kid sometime.
 
Z

Zaragoza

Banned
Bogie said:
firstly, almost doesn't count. if you want to look at it that way federer almost beat him in the finals of rome last year and even had a mp on him so fed actually came closer to beating nadal on his favorite surface than vice versa. but that doesn't really count for anything at all.

secondly, you most definitely can compare hewitt and his results to those of nadal. hewitt has 26 titles to nadal's 23. hewitt is 4-3 vs. nadal. hewitt has 17 million in prize money to nadal's 12. hewitt has held the #1 ranking for 75 weeks straight. nadal's overall record is 242-61 bringing his winning % to 79 % while hewitt's overall record is 460-147 bringing his winning % to 75%. so when nadal achieves some of the things that hewitt has, then compare because at this point, nadal is a ways away from hewitt.
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To be fair in the comparison Hewitt is 5 years older than Nadal and it doesn´t look like he will win a Slam again. I think their head to head doesn´t lead to many conclusions. Hewitt won 3 matches on hardcourts when Nadal wasn´t in his prime and 1 match on grass after Nadal retired when the match was tied at 1 set all. Nadal won 3 matches on clay. So we would need to watch now some matches on hardcourts and grass and see how it goes.
 
ollinger

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
Several disadvantages
1) As noted, he is overshadowed by someone who is looked at as the greatest in history, possibly.

2) He speaks very little English which limits his exposure in much of the world.

3) He has more of a grinders game and less flair, like Lendl, so he is simply less interesting for most people to watch.

4) Not really considered a dominator outside of the clay season, with plenty of bad losses on other surfaces.
 
E

Enigma_87

Professional
Nadal does not deserve to be mentioned alongside Hewitt, Safin, even Roddick cause, HE HAS NOT BEEN NUMBER ONE EVEN 1 WEEK. He is second fiddle to all those player who has been at the moment...
 
S

slice bh compliment

G.O.A.T.
And then you read Federer gush about him in the recent article. Plenty of appreciation there, from a guy who knows tennis well!

Anyway, I like Raf a lot. I'd rather see Federer beat him a little over half the time, but I still like and appreciate the way Raf competes. I do not think he is underappreciated at all. I just think people are threatened by him, so they fear and loathe him.

And others are huge fans of his.
 
Phil

Phil

Hall of Fame
slice bh compliment said:
And then you read Federer gush about him in the recent article. Plenty of appreciation there, from a guy who knows tennis well!

Anyway, I like Raf a lot. I'd rather see Federer beat him a little over half the time, but I still like and appreciate the way Raf competes. I do not think he is underappreciated at all. I just think people are threatened by him, so they fear and loathe him.

And others are huge fans of his.
Click to expand...
So you're implying that one who is not a huge fan (or a fan) of Nadal is then threatened and afraid of him and loathes him? Guess again.
 
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saram

saram

Legend
Enigma_87 said:
Nadal does not deserve to be mentioned alongside Hewitt, Safin, even Roddick cause, HE HAS NOT BEEN NUMBER ONE EVEN 1 WEEK. He is second fiddle to all those player who has been at the moment...
Click to expand...

And yet Rafa has 3 slam titles. Hewitt, Safin, and Roddick have less slams than Rafa...I would rather be a three-time defending champion of RG than #1 for one week....
 
Swissv2

Swissv2

Hall of Fame
nadal is definately not underappreciated. Just look at 30% of all posts on this forum dedicated to him, some being quite "fanatical"
 
E

Enigma_87

Professional
forzainter said:
i dont agree with this at all.....
Click to expand...
could you elaborate a bit more?
Andre was always in the shadow of Sampras, but had his share at the #1 position. Whilst Nadal has not. With Federer around he may never reach the number one position, since the gap is steady 2000 points...
Guga had won 3 RG but the difference between him and Rafa is that he actually
had been in the #1 position..
 
E

Enigma_87

Professional
saram said:
And yet Rafa has 3 slam titles. Hewitt, Safin, and Roddick have less slams than Rafa...I would rather be a three-time defending champion of RG than #1 for one week....
Click to expand...

Hewitt has been in AO finals, 2 QF at RG. Has won the US - been to the final, lost 3 times at SF to the eventual winner and has 2 QF there. He won Wimbey, lost in QF and SF to Federer and at QF to Baghdatis.
He is a multiple slam winner(thought only 2) while so far Nadal is one dimentional, won the TMC 2 times(where the best 8 meet), he has won 26 titles and been #1. At the moment Hewitt > Nadal
Safin has 2 Finals in AO, 1 Title there, been to SF and QF at RG. Won US Open and been to the SF once.QF at Wimbey. He has better results all round at slams than Nadal. And has been #1..
Roddick - 23 titles, 3 SF at AO and 2 QF, won US Open, 3 QF and a Final, 2 QF 2 Finals and 1 SF losing to Federer in 3 of the cases at Wimbey. Been #1.


Nadal has 3 FO titles - 1QF in AO, 1 QF in US, 2 F in WImbey.
All of the above had been in the SF of 3 slams, whether Nadal has been only at RG and Wimbey...
So far he's out of that group..
 
forzainter

forzainter

Semi-Pro
Enigma_87 said:
could you elaborate a bit more?
Andre was always in the shadow of Sampras, but had his share at the #1 position. Whilst Nadal has not. With Federer around he may never reach the number one position, since the gap is steady 2000 points...
Guga had won 3 RG but the difference between him and Rafa is that he actually
had been in the #1 position..
Click to expand...

i dont need to, as Saram basically said what i was thinking
 
S

slice bh compliment

G.O.A.T.
Phil said:
So you're implying that one who is not a huge fan (or a fan) of Nadal is then threatened and afraid of him and loathes him? ....
Click to expand...

No, not at all. Just people who ''hate'' him.

I do not like his strokes or his clothes, but I respect his effort and intensity. I like what he's brought to the game. People who cannot respect that are the ones I was referring to.

I do not see him as ''underappreciated''. I see him as ''polarizing''.
 
saram

saram

Legend
Enigma_87 said:
Hewitt has been in AO finals, 2 QF at RG. Has won the US - been to the final, lost 3 times at SF to the eventual winner and has 2 QF there. He won Wimbey, lost in QF and SF to Federer and at QF to Baghdatis.
He is a multiple slam winner(thought only 2) while so far Nadal is one dimentional, won the TMC 2 times(where the best 8 meet), he has won 26 titles and been #1. At the moment Hewitt > Nadal
Safin has 2 Finals in AO, 1 Title there, been to SF and QF at RG. Won US Open and been to the SF once.QF at Wimbey. He has better results all round at slams than Nadal. And has been #1..
Roddick - 23 titles, 3 SF at AO and 2 QF, won US Open, 3 QF and a Final, 2 QF 2 Finals and 1 SF losing to Federer in 3 of the cases at Wimbey. Been #1.


Nadal has 3 FO titles - 1QF in AO, 1 QF in US, 2 F in WImbey.
All of the above had been in the SF of 3 slams, whether Nadal has been only at RG and Wimbey...
So far he's out of that group..
Click to expand...

getting to a QF, SF, and Finals do not equate to Slam Champion! As well, how many Master's shields to Hewitt, Andy and Safin own compared to Rafa? As well, Rafa has been to Wimby Finals twice--only to lose to the GOAT. A one-dimensional player would not play in the finals of RG and Wimby in the same year.

Your logic is flawed...
 
D

dh003i

Legend
Nadal is very unfortunate to be playing in the same era as Federer, otherwise he would have been #1 for many many weeks in a row now, and would be approaching a point where he could break the record for straight weeks at #1. (Likewise, Federer is unfortunate to be playing against Nadal at the FO, otherwise he'd have likely had 2 or 3 FO titles).

I don't think that Nadal should be rated below Safin, Hewitt, and Roddick. # of weeks at #1 is of secondary importance compared to # of grand slams, and Nadal has 3 -- more than any of those players. (at least, GS are more important now; in Connors era, #1 was perhaps as important or more).
 
plain jane

plain jane

Semi-Pro
has anyone thought about how boring tennis would be if nadal was not around? Fed winning every grand slam and most masters series. i mean fed is one of the greatest that this sport has ever seen, no doubt about it. nadal is the only other dominant force on tour right now (almost unbeatable on clay). for that he is appreciated. however he is overshadowed by fed who is as i mentioned great at what he does.
 
E

Enigma_87

Professional
saram said:
getting to a QF, SF, and Finals do not equate to Slam Champion! As well, how many Master's shields to Hewitt, Andy and Safin own compared to Rafa? As well, Rafa has been to Wimby Finals twice--only to lose to the GOAT. A one-dimensional player would not play in the finals of RG and Wimby in the same year.

Your logic is flawed...
Click to expand...

Well using your logic, coming to the finals is not like slam winner, so Rafa stays one dimentional (winning only slam on clay). Nadal doesn't have positive h2h with the 80% of the top ten players on HC. He never won the Masters Cup. Most of Nadal's shields are on clay(the same goes for his titles). It Federer wasn't around Hewitt as well may have had 6-7 slams, same goes for Roddick. Nadal may retire as one of the best on clay(have to beat Borg's record at RG to be #1) but not near the player Agassi, Lendl, Federer, Sampras, Connors etc...
 
plain jane

plain jane

Semi-Pro
Enigma_87 said:
Well using your logic, coming to the finals is not like slam winner, so Rafa stays one dimentional (winning only slam on clay). Nadal doesn't have positive h2h with the 80% of the top ten players on HC. He never won the Masters Cup. Most of Nadal's shields are on clay(the same goes for his titles). It Federer wasn't around Hewitt as well may have had 6-7 slams, same goes for Roddick. Nadal may retire as one of the best on clay(have to beat Borg's record at RG to be #1) but not near the player Agassi, Lendl, Federer, Sampras, Connors etc...
Click to expand...

Using your (flawed) logic nadal would have 5 slams ( at age 21) because he made it to two Wimbledon finals. why do people keep refering to nadal as one dimentional? Roddick is one dimentional. i cant group nadal with roddick
 
Phil

Phil

Hall of Fame
slice bh compliment said:
No, not at all. Just people who ''hate'' him.

I do not like his strokes or his clothes, but I respect his effort and intensity. I like what he's brought to the game. People who cannot respect that are the ones I was referring to.

I do not see him as ''underappreciated''. I see him as ''polarizing''.
Click to expand...
I feel the same way-don't like his strokes either, but, well, I hate to do this but...

"Differnent strokes for different folks":)
 
E

Enigma_87

Professional
plain jane said:
Using your (flawed) logic nadal would have 5 slams ( at age 21) because he made it to two Wimbledon finals. why do people keep refering to nadal as one dimentional? Roddick is one dimentional. i cant group nadal with roddick
Click to expand...

Well with my (flawed) logic, Nadal would have had the same number of slams like Safin, Roddick, Hewitt without Federer around. So he'd be in the same group as them, ain't that right? Roddick has one one slam, Nadal ditto, Roddick is one-dimentional, Nadal ditto, same group..
 
saram

saram

Legend
Enigma_87 said:
Well with my (flawed) logic, Nadal would have had the same number of slams like Safin, Roddick, Hewitt without Federer around. So he'd be in the same group as them, ain't that right? Roddick has one one slam, Nadal ditto, Roddick is one-dimentional, Nadal ditto, same group..
Click to expand...

wrong...Rafa has three slams....
 
tennispro11

tennispro11

Hall of Fame
Enigma_87 said:
Well with my (flawed) logic, Nadal would have had the same number of slams like Safin, Roddick, Hewitt without Federer around. So he'd be in the same group as them, ain't that right? Roddick has one one slam, Nadal ditto, Roddick is one-dimentional, Nadal ditto, same group..
Click to expand...

You can't count. Go back to school and when you come back to the forums hopefully you will have learned something.
 
T

The tennis guy

Hall of Fame
NadalandFedererfan said:
For what he has accomplished, and the amount people try to diminish his achievements, I think Rafael "Rafa" Nadal may be one of the most underappreciated players in history. I mean the kid has won 3 French Opens, pushed Federer hard in 2 Wimbledon finals, won all these Masters titles on hard courts, hasnt lost before the quarters of a slam in a long time, and people still look to diminish all that he is doing, and how great it is.
Click to expand...

He is not under-appreciated at all. He is appreciated for what he is. He is 3-time defending French Open champion, No. 2 player in the world.

It's not Nadal himself who draws most fire on this board, it is his unrealistic fans who insisted for almost 3 years now he is equivalent to or even bigger than Federer when he isn't. He is the closest one at the moment. That's it.
 
tennispro11

tennispro11

Hall of Fame
Enigma_87 said:
We're talking about one-dimentional game moron. When you win only one slam(no matter how many times) you're still one-dimentional..
Click to expand...

Wow! Getting to the finals of Wimbledon two years in a row after winning RG is one dimensional. I think Enigma, you are the moron. :p
 
plain jane

plain jane

Semi-Pro
and when you dont win a slam you dont have any dimensions then! i now get you, you are absolutely right! and Fed is three dimensional! it Totally makes sense now.
 
E

Enigma_87

Professional
tennispro11 said:
Wow! Getting to the finals of Wimbledon two years in a row after winning RG is one dimensional. I think Enigma, you are the moron. :p
Click to expand...

Well in that case Roddick is not one-dimentional player too(the first quote about the one dimentional game wasn't addressed to you, look above). And you come to me yet again, basically that Safin, Hewitt, Roddick - all belong to the same sentense as Nadal. Now see the point moron? ;)
 
tennispro11

tennispro11

Hall of Fame
Enigma_87 said:
Well in that case Roddick is not one-dimentional player too(the first quote about the one dimentional game wasn't addressed to you, look above). And you come to me yet again, basically that Safin, Hewitt, Roddick - all belong to the same sentense as Nadal. Now see the point moron? ;)
Click to expand...

No, I don't see the point. Do you have down's syndrome?
 
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tennispro11

tennispro11

Hall of Fame
plain jane said:
Using your (flawed) logic nadal would have 5 slams ( at age 21) because he made it to two Wimbledon finals. why do people keep refering to nadal as one dimentional? Roddick is one dimentional. i cant group nadal with roddick
Click to expand...

Somebody agrees with me. :lol:
 
F

fastdunn

Legend
Both Federer and Nadal are insanly good.

Federer is certainly nearly god-like tennis player but look how Nadal
is slowly closing in on grass and hard courts.
 
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tennispro11

tennispro11

Hall of Fame
Man, you have to be ********. You ask how Roddick can be one dimensional and yet he has only won one grand slam. Then you go on to say that Nadal is one dimensional since he has only won three RG titles, but yet he gets to the Wimbledon final two years in a row. How is that one dimensional when you consider Roddick to be more than one dimensional? I don't understand you at all. This is how you spell dimensional as well.
 
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