Sunny014
Legend
When did Talk Tennis start and what its its history? Could you please brief me on it ?
Rafael Nadal: 'People should remember my legacy, not titles'
- Thread starter clayqueen
- Start date
When did Talk Tennis start and what its its history? Could you please brief me on it ?
NAS
Hall of Fame
Actually this is right answer, nobody will remember Rafa legacy without his titles
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
We heard that a lot back in April, May and June this year. We also hear continually that “Rafa will be winning RG into his 40’s.”
Sunny014
Legend
If Rafa can win 4-5 more Roland Garros then he will go down in history as the GOAT, no amount of slams won by Roger or Novak will be enough to beat that.
Dominating a surface for 4 generations is what he needs to aim now, but honestly not even he can do that, he is finished.
Gen 1 - Fed's
Gen 2 - Novak's
Gen 3 - Thiem's
Gen 4 - Tsitsipas's
He is now at Gen 4 but a guy from Gen 2 beat him convincingly, Thiem must also be planning an onslaught next year, this means Rafa's time is over or very close to ending.
Dominating a surface for 4 generations is what he needs to aim now, but honestly not even he can do that, he is finished.
Gen 1 - Fed's
Gen 2 - Novak's
Gen 3 - Thiem's
Gen 4 - Tsitsipas's
He is now at Gen 4 but a guy from Gen 2 beat him convincingly, Thiem must also be planning an onslaught next year, this means Rafa's time is over or very close to ending.
GameSetDjokovic
Semi-Pro
If Rafa can win more RG he will cement his legacy as the clay GOAT. Nothing more.
Nadal has always made additions to his game when he was on injury break. In 2010 he came up with heavier and bigger forehand. In 2013 he came up with FH DTL, in 2017 he came up with new flat offensive backhand. Such additions to game helped him to stay on top for long time. Let's see whether he comes with something new next year.
I think there is good chance Nadal will win 2 more French opens. He is far from done on clay. Even 70% Nadal would beat anyone at French except good in form Thiem or Djokovic.
Sunny014
Legend
2 won't do, needs 3 or 4 minimum .... I think 4
He ate the prime of Fed, Novak and Thiem on clay, now he will have to do that to Tsitsipas.
If by the time Stefanos is 28 and has 0 Frenchs or 1 french at max while Nadal added 4 in that time period (2022-2026) then that would mean he subdued a 4th generation.
Hard to see him winning 4 more. His numbers have dropped significantly this year. Could be clear case of physical decline. But Nadal has surprised us before. After 2015-16 Slump - he came back with one strongest ever performance on clay in 2017. If Nadal still has something like that in him then anything is possible.
Sunny014
Legend
He needs to conjure 1 final blast of a 4-5 years run of dominance.
Thats it, he will surged ahead of anyone who played tennis.
All of Roger's wimbledons, Novak's AOs, Laver's CYGS etc etc will look second grade to Rafa's that achievement.
Of course for this he will have to be dominant till 40 years of age but that is what is required .... 2 full decades+ of dominating a surface .... unthinkable
Nadal is definitely capable of that. Djokovic better target 24-25 Slams if he wants record.
Sunny014
Legend
2005-2008
2010-2014
2017-2020
Now he needs to bring a 4th wave
2022-2025/26
If he can do it, then he will be the unanimous GOAT without any slam outside clay.
Rafa has already defeated Usain Bolt in a poll as the greatest modern era athlete, if he does this 4th wave then his stock will rise beyond any tennis player that ever played
2010-2014
2017-2020
Now he needs to bring a 4th wave
2022-2025/26
If he can do it, then he will be the unanimous GOAT without any slam outside clay.
Rafa has already defeated Usain Bolt in a poll as the greatest modern era athlete, if he does this 4th wave then his stock will rise beyond any tennis player that ever played
Vcore89
Talk Tennis Guru
Will be hearing about it again next year and he'll probably win RG again, then Roger wins Wimbledon in crutches, but of course, Novak would've already collected his AO. The only title Rafa would love to add to his collection is that elusive Tour Finals trophy before retirement.
Sunny014
Legend
I feel Nadal needs to work on his serve now @D.Nalby12 if he wants to aim a 4th wave
Apart from that he needs to get extra fit as well during the clay season, he might have to skip all the other slams in the year or play them as "timepaas"
Apart from that he needs to get extra fit as well during the clay season, he might have to skip all the other slams in the year or play them as "timepaas"
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Cement?
RaulRamirez
Legend
Wow, I'm getting high BP just being surrounded by all this salt.
You know, every time a player is interviewed, they're not thinking about the #@&! GOAT race. Of course, he can be justifiably proud of his titles as well as the way in which he has competed and carried himself.
All these guys (and women) have both strengths and flaws, and Rafa has many strengths that I'm sure inspire millions of people.
You know, every time a player is interviewed, they're not thinking about the #@&! GOAT race. Of course, he can be justifiably proud of his titles as well as the way in which he has competed and carried himself.
All these guys (and women) have both strengths and flaws, and Rafa has many strengths that I'm sure inspire millions of people.
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ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
NAS
Hall of Fame
He will not going to 4 RG, one or two at max, right now apart from Med, Clay has more competition outside of Hc .
With Zverev, Tsits, Rublev , fit Thiem , Mussetti and Alcaraz , it will be difficult getting to two RG.
N01E
Hall of Fame
I told my Vietnamese opponent that some people from his country don't understand tennis and waited 88 seconds before each serve just to be sure he appreciates the sport. After he won I said that many matches were played in the last couple of months, so we don't know what this result really means. He only beat me, because he is of course very obsessed (unlike me of course).
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
I would like Rafa somewhat more if I never came by this forum
I honestly don't see the difference legacy wise of what he's already done and what you're proposing. He's already done the impossible 5 times over on clay
clayqueen
Talk Tennis Guru
Stop tarnishing the reputation of Rafa. What has he done to deserve this?
SonicNirvana
Hall of Fame
I say style of play
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Ask Djoker last Sunday
Before I joined this forum, I was a Roger fan who also respected Rafa and Novak. It’s the toxicity and unpleasantness of the fans on this forum that made me change my mind too. However, I always try to remind myself that players are not responsible for the behaviour of their fans. I can dislike the fans but should not dislike the player. Anyhow, I’m relatively new around here, but I have learned that all fan bases have been taking turns in obnoxiousness, and it seems now it’s Novak’s fans time, but I remember not long ago when Rafa fans were even worse. I hear that Roger fans used to be unbearable in the past, but that was years before I started visiting TTW.
clayqueen
Talk Tennis Guru
What about this:
Novak Djokovic denies being coached during matches by Boris Becker
Djokovic: ‘We can’t pretend coaching’s not happening in tennis’
When asked on Sunday what he thought of reports that Becker admitted in a recent interview to doing just that, Djokovic, the reigning Wimbledon men’s singles champion, said: “I don’t think that we’re cheating. I don’t think that’s how you can call it.
“I mean, there are special ways of, I would say, communication, as he mentioned: the way you look at each other, the way you ‘feel’ your box, and the box ‘feels’ what you’re going through on the court. I think that’s something that just gives you that reassurance, gives you that confidence.
When asked on Sunday what he thought of reports that Becker admitted in a recent interview to doing just that, Djokovic, the reigning Wimbledon men’s singles champion, said: “I don’t think that we’re cheating. I don’t think that’s how you can call it.
“I mean, there are special ways of, I would say, communication, as he mentioned: the way you look at each other, the way you ‘feel’ your box, and the box ‘feels’ what you’re going through on the court. I think that’s something that just gives you that reassurance, gives you that confidence.
“It’s not necessary that he tells me where to serve or to which side of the opponent’s court I have to play, because that doesn’t happen. But it’s more of a, you know, encouragement, and more of a support and reassurance, as I said, that’s basically present in those moments.”
Pressed further on whether or not this constituted “a signal”, Djokovic smiled nervously, and replied: “Well, I think with all the cameras pointed out to him and to the box, I think you would already notice if he would just kind of go kick serve, slice, to do the backhand or forehand.
“But again, we can’t pretend like that’s not happening in tennis. Of course, there’s situations when it happens, and not just with the top players, with everybody. This is a very competitive sport. You’re alone on the court. Of course, there’s certain rules.
“But also there are times when the team of the player communicates with the player when he gets to go and take the towel in the corner, which is closer to the box, or, you know, different ways.
“I think it’s all fine as long as it’s not regular. I think it just depends. Also that’s up to the chair umpire or supervisor to decide if somebody’s breaking the rules or not. As long as it’s something that you can tolerate, let’s say, within the ways of communication, I think it’s fine.”
Novak Djokovic denies being coached during matches by Boris Becker
The world No1 Novak Djokovic has fended off questions about the extent of friendship with Roger Federer
www.theguardian.com
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V
Vamos Rafa Nadal
Guest
Truth is we have no idea what will happen next and while it is fun to speculate it's good not to take it too seriously. Nadal may or not win more slams, same with Djokovic. Federer imo is less likely to win more.
Rafa is right: legacy is more important. The obsessiveness that tennis fans have about GOAThood is really strange! Even though I do not like Djokovic he is one of the 3 best men's tennis players of all time. How lucky we have been to see the big 3 era unfold. But I am looking forward to a new chapter in tennis history, where the younger players start learning how to win in the big tournaments and the big moments and I believe we are finally at that point - which does not mean that I don't expect Rafa and Novak to ever win again, I think they probably will.
Rafa's legacy for me is that he was the first male player ever that captured my imagination from the first time I saw him play - in 2004 - and I knew he was going to be a great player! The second time that has ever happened has been earlier this year in May when I first saw Carlos Alcaraz play (what is it about Spanish players and me?) (; I have rode the rollercoaster of emotions from joy to sorrow as I have watched Rafa's career in tennis unfold. More good times than bad ones, and I hope we get a few more years of wonderful tennis from him!
Rafa is right: legacy is more important. The obsessiveness that tennis fans have about GOAThood is really strange! Even though I do not like Djokovic he is one of the 3 best men's tennis players of all time. How lucky we have been to see the big 3 era unfold. But I am looking forward to a new chapter in tennis history, where the younger players start learning how to win in the big tournaments and the big moments and I believe we are finally at that point - which does not mean that I don't expect Rafa and Novak to ever win again, I think they probably will.
Rafa's legacy for me is that he was the first male player ever that captured my imagination from the first time I saw him play - in 2004 - and I knew he was going to be a great player! The second time that has ever happened has been earlier this year in May when I first saw Carlos Alcaraz play (what is it about Spanish players and me?) (; I have rode the rollercoaster of emotions from joy to sorrow as I have watched Rafa's career in tennis unfold. More good times than bad ones, and I hope we get a few more years of wonderful tennis from him!
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
I don't remember him actually admitting that in the book. And regardless, as a person and as a competitor he's one of the best role models in the game .
Sir Weed
Hall of Fame
Rafa trying to push the wiki article on circular references?
en.m.wikipedia.org
Circular reference - Wikipedia
Sunny014
Legend
I would like Rafa somewhat more if I never came by this forum
I honestly don't see the difference legacy wise of what he's already done and what you're proposing. He's already done the impossible 5 times over on clay
There is a difference.
He already prevented 3 guys from 3 generations who could have been ATGs on clay, now if he does it to a 4th guy then it would further enhance his power on clay.
Imagine people 50 years later looking at 17-18 FOs and then seeing Fed/Novak/Thiem/Zverev all being subdued by Nadal at the red clay, his legacy would be even more massive..... he would be worshipped at the roland garros even 50 years from now, at age 85, thats how big he would be.
TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
After Pistol Pete, Nadal is the HUMBLE Champion. Nice words by Rafa.
Terenigma
G.O.A.T.
So we're going to ignore the fact for 80% of his career he took full advantage of the time between serves and routinely took between 30 and 40seconds before the rule was enforced (likely because of him) and the fact he made an injury excuse almost every time he lost an important match? Or how some years he pulled out of events claiming an injury he wants to let heal yet is always miraculously healed intime for the clay season? How about the fact that for almost his entire career he has whined about making changes to the tour that directly benefit him. Hell i could go on with specific incidents like the Rosol shoulder bump or getting umpires banned from his matches but i think i've made my point.
To be perfectly frank i think it is embarrasing that Rafa thinks of himself as a good EG to upcoming players or anyone for that matter when he has a history of doing things only that directly benefit him and making excuses when it doesn't work out.
To be perfectly frank i think it is embarrasing that Rafa thinks of himself as a good EG to upcoming players or anyone for that matter when he has a history of doing things only that directly benefit him and making excuses when it doesn't work out.
Cupcake
Hall of Fame
In an ideal world. But unfortunately not every kid has parents they can look up to and want to model themselves after.
clayqueen
Talk Tennis Guru
All of the above is like trying to squeeze water out of stone.
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BlueB
Legend
Yes, the role model of how to persevere against all odds. How to never give up on a dream, a role model of hard work, looking to the every detail. An example how to win against the world and own weaknesses.
Last, but not least, a model how to remain loyal and proud of own nation, even when others try to lure you to be their own.
Djokovic is probably the most inspirational story of the tennis history.
mtommer
Hall of Fame
Possibly doped. That's what. Am I saying "definitively"? No. But I do highly suspect he does and not only him, btw. I highly suspect Djokovic does. I don't believe Federer did because I believe how he wins, well won for now I guess, is explainable, although I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out otherwise. I think a great example to illustrate just how abnormal Nadal/Nole endurance is would be to compare their matches when they played against Murray. Murray, I don't believe, dopes. When you watch his matches, you can see he gets tired. It's a stark contrast when he played Nole or Rafa that those two were run side to side as much as they made Murray run and you can see the toll it took on Murray yet not on them. One of the key strategies in tennis is wearing down your opponent. There are many players like Murray who devote a lot to their fitness yet still display normal human cycles of energy/tiring, as shown by Murray, Courier, Agassi and so on.
So, if you don't personally believe Rafa dopes, hey fine. However, don't act as if those who do aren't being reasonable in their suspicion.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
You are making a massive accusation though? Unfairly too. No evidence has ever leaked out that he has. It is baseless. Anybody can go around throwing that crap out there. Reckless and blinded.
Terenigma
G.O.A.T.
Is it tho? I've been a Murray fan his entire career and your comment describes the petty non-issues people come up with him but not with Nadal. They are all real impactful things that happened. I'm not reaching with any of it. He's not a good sporting example and the irony is that his statement is the exact opposite. People should respect his legacy because of what he has achieved but he has absolutely not left a good example for boys and girls. All he has taught is that when you lose, make excuses and complain.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, he sure never made anyone wait on him...
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
Losing breeds humility which breeds compassion. Taking Ls is the one thing that every fanbase can relate on, and it balances them out.
I can definitely see this place being Fed fan central back when he was still dominant. I mean there was no real GOAT debate when Roger was on 17 and the rest were far far behind. And obviously post RG 20 when I joined, Nadal fans were out in full force. the real Djokovic fans I saw seemed pretty nervous about CYGS but the Djokotrolling got really bad after Wimbledon for sure as well.
Losing is good. More losses the better.
mtommer
Hall of Fame
Having a suspicion and making an accusation is not the samething, at all.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
So you are saying you dont think he did dope? Correct?
Hitman
Bionic Poster
What about this:
Novak Djokovic denies being coached during matches by Boris Becker
Djokovic: ‘We can’t pretend coaching’s not happening in tennis’
When asked on Sunday what he thought of reports that Becker admitted in a recent interview to doing just that, Djokovic, the reigning Wimbledon men’s singles champion, said: “I don’t think that we’re cheating. I don’t think that’s how you can call it.
“I mean, there are special ways of, I would say, communication, as he mentioned: the way you look at each other, the way you ‘feel’ your box, and the box ‘feels’ what you’re going through on the court. I think that’s something that just gives you that reassurance, gives you that confidence.
When asked on Sunday what he thought of reports that Becker admitted in a recent interview to doing just that, Djokovic, the reigning Wimbledon men’s singles champion, said: “I don’t think that we’re cheating. I don’t think that’s how you can call it.
“I mean, there are special ways of, I would say, communication, as he mentioned: the way you look at each other, the way you ‘feel’ your box, and the box ‘feels’ what you’re going through on the court. I think that’s something that just gives you that reassurance, gives you that confidence.
“It’s not necessary that he tells me where to serve or to which side of the opponent’s court I have to play, because that doesn’t happen. But it’s more of a, you know, encouragement, and more of a support and reassurance, as I said, that’s basically present in those moments.”
Pressed further on whether or not this constituted “a signal”, Djokovic smiled nervously, and replied: “Well, I think with all the cameras pointed out to him and to the box, I think you would already notice if he would just kind of go kick serve, slice, to do the backhand or forehand.
“But again, we can’t pretend like that’s not happening in tennis. Of course, there’s situations when it happens, and not just with the top players, with everybody. This is a very competitive sport. You’re alone on the court. Of course, there’s certain rules.
“But also there are times when the team of the player communicates with the player when he gets to go and take the towel in the corner, which is closer to the box, or, you know, different ways.
“I think it’s all fine as long as it’s not regular. I think it just depends. Also that’s up to the chair umpire or supervisor to decide if somebody’s breaking the rules or not. As long as it’s something that you can tolerate, let’s say, within the ways of communication, I think it’s fine.”
Novak Djokovic denies being coached during matches by Boris Becker
The world No1 Novak Djokovic has fended off questions about the extent of friendship with Roger Federer
And that completely washes Nadal away of any sin...look, Djokovic is doing it too! Maybe he got the idea from watching Rafa do it to him four years earlier.
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