Rafael Nadal retires as the 12th Greatest athlete of the 21st Century

Mustard said:
It's what happened with Phil Taylor. He'd get to the high pressure moments of a leg, and his pulse rate would go down, almost like he was switching off emotion before a cold professional job. With nearly all other players, even champions like Raymond van Barneveld, the pulse rate went up at the high pressure moments. Only James Wade, as I recall, was another exception, but his pulse rate mostly stayed the same throughout legs.
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2007 world darts championship final between Taylor and Barney is still my favourite final to this day. The level from both players and nerves of steel under pressure. Two legends of the sport at peak of their powers and it had it all. Last match at the circus tavern too.

I get all nostalgic watching it back! I always watch it again when the world darts championship comes round again at Christmas :)
 
Djokovic_is_the_best#1 said:
2007 world darts championship final between Taylor and Barney is still my favourite final to this day. The level from both players and nerves of steel under pressure. Two legends of the sport at peak of their powers and it had it all. Last match at the circus tavern too.

I get all nostalgic watching it back! I always watch it again when the world darts championship comes round again at Christmas :)
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Do you live in UK?
 
I gotta hand it to Phil, he was an (d)artist. I was on team Priestley for their matches ib the world championship finals, but by the time I was watching, Taylor was now well on top. Didn't watch darts before it was on sky at Christmas. Ah, memories.

The goat walk on song.
 
Gizo said:
I think that Skip Bayless should have been asked to put together this list.

Tim Tebow (more box office than Kobe Bryant) would probably be no. 1, probably followed by Tom Brady, with Baker Mayfield ranking highly. He would definitely throw in Michael Jeffrey Jordan based on the fact that he was an active NBA player for the Wizards for a couple of years from 2001-2003, and it would be sacrilege to leave out the middle name.

Ray Allen (for saving Lebron's legacy) and Jason Terry (for helping ensure that the chosen one became the frozen one in 2011) would be up there, as would Pacquiao who after all really beat Mayweather in 2015 but was robbed by the judges.

Maybe Lebron and Mayweather would scrape into the top 1000.
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I just can't find a place for LeBron right now and Floyd's legacy diminishes further with every beard implant he receives, not to mention the ridiculous exhibition fights. In the end, neither are top 1000 material.
skio.webp
 
Obviously this is wrong. I’ve been repeatedly told by members of The Legion of the Eye Test that we can’t take into account what an athlete wins in his 30s. And Tom Brady, listed at #5 in this list, won 4 of his 7 Super Bowls past the age of 35!

Surely the Legion members know what they are saying right? It’s not like they are simply clueless posters. Or are they?

:unsure:
 
How are they determining this? LOL @ overweight fat Serena being a greater “athlete” than Nadal? What sprinting to the buffet line? And Kobe? Seriously? Loved but he’s a top 10 all time NBA player at best. Nadal is 2nd or 3rd great to ever play tennis. Some say thee greatest of you love clay
 
I don't fully agree with the list and no one either because no one can up with the exact same list.
I do agree that Federer is ranked higher than Nadal and Djokovic
 
Poisoned Slice said:
I just can't find a place for LeBron right now and Floyd's legacy diminishes further with every beard implant he receives, not to mention the ridiculous exhibition fights. In the end, neither are top 1000 material.
skio.webp
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I don’t think Lebron makes it into the list of top 10 athletes to play in Cleveland. He certainly can’t compare to the great Johnny Manziel.

I also think Lavar Ball would beat him one on one.

Terence Crawford and Errol Spence Jr, drunk and blindfolded would have too much for a prime Floyd and KO him.
 
I would definitely put Nadal ahead of Kobe. But outside of that I don't think it's egregious to rank him behind anyone else in that top 12.

Most of the comments are about how this is a BS American list that I guess is missing a ton of people. In which case you're arguing that Nadal should be even lower?
 
Mustard said:
The greatest winning mentality is Phil Taylor. He was so ruthless, unsentimental and business-like as a winner, that even the Americans wouldn't like it.

They once put a heart monitor on dart players. Taylor was the only one whose pulse got slower in the high pressure moments, like an assassin.
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:laughing::-D
 
MeatTornado said:
I would definitely put Nadal ahead of Kobe. But outside of that I don't think it's egregious to rank him behind anyone else in that top 12.

Most of the comments are about how this is a BS American list that I guess is missing a ton of people. In which case you're arguing that Nadal should be even lower?
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would you put Nadal above Khabib?
 
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Umm no Bo Jackson? He still played in the 9 The guy is the greatest athlete of all time hands down. Oh yea pre 21st. Still to not have him on any list is just wrong
 
There are a lot of team players. And Federer belongs behind Djokovic. No discussion. The reasons why he was once ahead of Djokovic are all in the past.
 
I also don’t really see an issue with a US based outlet, putting together a list largely dominated by US based athletes. Clearly there are not going to be athletes named in sports that next to no-one in the US cares about.

If a British based outlet put together a similar list for example, the likes of Johnny Wilkinson and Ben Stokes would surely be in the there, and clearly there would no be room for any baseball players. Plus Lebron for example would surely be ranked much lower than he 'should be'.

I do think that in reality Messi, CRonaldo and Lebron should be automatic entries in any top 5 of any 21st century list though. The first two are are universally considered to be among the greatest players that have ever lived in by far the biggest sport on the planet by a huge distance, with by far the biggest depth in talent and competition. Literally thousands of football players worldwide earn the equivalent of USD 1 million a year or more, and thousands more are at least making more than enough money to not have any financial worries after retirement unless they make reckless mistakes there. Far more people worldwide aspire and try to become professional football players (let alone playing at the highest levels in it, let alone being among the best of the best in it), compared to in any other sport.

And Lebron is among the greatest players that has ever lived in the second biggest sport on the planet, in which by its inherent nature big name stars are so influential because they have the ball for such a relatively high % of the time, in a league that is widely followed across the world. Again huge numbers of people worldwide simply dream about making it to the NBA, let alone achieving anything more than that.
 
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weakera said:
3 out of the top 6 tennis lol
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What's so hilarious considering that they are 3 players who have dominated world tennis for a period of about 20 years and are the 3 most successful tennis players in history?
Among other things, tennis is also the most popular in the world among individual sports.

Rather, I would underline that I did not include motorsport interpreters as they are too conditioned by the medium, otherwise athletes like Schumacher, Hamilton or Rossi could very well be in that top 10.
 
Winner Sinner said:
What's so hilarious considering that they are 3 players who have dominated world tennis for a period of about 20 years and are the 3 most successful tennis players in history?
Among other things, tennis is also the most popular in the world among individual sports.

Rather, I would underline that I did not include motorsport interpreters as they are too conditioned by the medium, otherwise athletes like Schumacher, Hamilton or Rossi could very well be in that top 10.
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The idea that 3 of the top 6 could be tennis players doesn't even begin to approach sense. If anything the commonality of this kind of dominance in a single sport speaks to it being easier to dominate in that sport. And athletes whose dominance is more uncommon, in different sports, are not as impressive lol? Huh?

You probably aren't capable of recognizing your own biases so you won't understand. You like tennis and so tennis players gravitate towards the top for you. Maybe Tony Robbins can help,

 
Winner Sinner said:
1) Djokovic
2) Messi
3) LeBron
4) Bolt
5) Federer
6) Nadal
7) Phelps
8) Ronaldo
9) Kobe
10) Pogacar(the next number 1)
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Bolt is a better athlete than Djokovic/Messi, Lebron too is a better athlete considering his size and movement.

So your list is not entirely accurate. Thats what @weakera is implying at. Being good at a sport and being a great athlete are 2 different things. In tennis itself Nadal was a better athlete than Djokovic/Federer but they are better tennis players.
 
weakera said:
The idea that 3 of the top 6 could be tennis players doesn't even begin to approach sense. If anything the commonality of this kind of dominance in a single sport speaks to it being easier to dominate in that sport. And athletes whose dominance is more uncommon, in different sports, are not as impressive lol? Huh?

You probably aren't capable of recognizing your own biases so you won't understand. You like tennis and so tennis players gravitate towards the top for you. Maybe Tony Robbins can help,

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What you obviously struggle to understand is that if one of the big three can be in the top 3, and CV in hand is Djokovic, then there is a reasonable right to also include the two albums in the top 10 given that between Djokovic himself and Fedal no is that the difference is enormous. So if I put Djokovic in first place in my ranking I am putting the other two in the top 6, then we can discuss the individual positions but not the simultaneous presence of the big three in the top 10.
And anyway no, they are passionate about tennis like many other sports, I know perfectly well how to weigh the pros and cons in roughly establishing a top 10 of the best male athletes of this millennium.

I would also add that Nadal in Spain is considered by far the best sportsman in history and of the millennium specifically, despite the fact that they can boast sportsmen such as the footballers Xavi and Iniesta above all, the cyclists Indurain and Contador, the drivers Marquez and Alonso, but the goat of Spanish sport is not in the slightest in question, by the way when it is said to be synonymous with greater ease in dominating one's sport to the detriment of others. Now you may as well continue with your hysterical giggling.
 
Winner Sinner said:
I know perfectly well how to weigh the pros and cons in roughly establishing a top 10 of the best male athletes of this millennium.
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That is very clearly not the case.

Including three tennis players in your top six implies not only a considerable amount of confirmation bias, but narrow definitions of greatness, and a lack of comparative context.

A more logical approach would involve a balanced representation that considers the diversity of skills, sports, and achievements. What you have done with your list doesn't make any sense.
 
Razer said:
Bolt is a better athlete than Djokovic/Messi, Lebron too is a better athlete considering his size and movement.

So your list is not entirely accurate. Thats what @weakera is implying at. Being good at a sport and being a great athlete are 2 different things. In tennis itself Nadal was a better athlete than Djokovic/Federer but they are better tennis players.
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I chose what I consider the 10 best athletes of this millennium, not the best athletes in the strict sense, otherwise the list should be monopolized by track and field interpreters, for example a Duplantis?

We talk about greatness parameterized to the respective sports/disciplines, or rather, the ranking drawn up (made with the feet) in the preview comment is based on those parameters, otherwise why put Brady so high?

And in any case, even if we wanted to base it on athleticism, every athlete has their own requirements and principles. Wanting to compare Bolt with Djokovic while comparing totally different sports, one based exclusively on his physique while the other also on the skills required by the game (tennis), Djokovic obviously will not be able to compete with Bolt on pure speed, but if we talk about resistance and coordination , or other aspects that determine the qualities of an athlete, the Serbian wins, precisely because the principles required in their sports are totally different.
 
However, I forgot Hirscher in the top, let's say I put him in Kobe's place considering how Pogacar will be increasingly destined to rise in the rankings until he reaches the top.
 
weakera said:
That is very clearly not the case.

Including three tennis players in your top six implies not only a considerable amount of confirmation bias, but narrow definitions of greatness, and a lack of comparative context.

A more logical approach would involve a balanced representation that considers the diversity of skills, sports, and achievements. What you have done with your list doesn't make any sense.
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Ok so let's just put one of the big three in the top 10 just because he says so weakera, but that actually makes a lot of sense. It doesn't matter that at least two sporting legends remain out of the top 10 of the best sportsmen of this millennium, preferring others who cannot possibly be at their level (and I'll give you the example of Nadal compared to other Spanish sportsmen), the important thing is that waekera which he says with his rather bizarre theses.

PS
From the heights of your sports professor wisdom, I bet you don't even know who Pogacar is.
 
Winner Sinner said:
Ok so let's just put one of the big three in the top 10 just because he says so weakera, but that actually makes a lot of sense. It doesn't matter that at least two sporting legends remain out of the top 10 of the best sportsmen of this millennium, preferring others who cannot possibly be at their level (and I'll give you the example of Nadal compared to other Spanish sportsmen), the important thing is that which he says with weakera his rather bizarre theses.

PS
From the heights of your sports professor wisdom, I bet you don't even know who Pogacar is.
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It's 3 in the top-6 that makes your list embarrassing. 3 in the top-10, which is not what you originally said but rather what I've pressured you into retreating towards, is more defensible.
 
weakera said:
It's 3 in the top-6 that makes your list embarrassing. 3 in the top-10, which is not what you originally said but rather what I've pressured you into retreating towards, is more defensible.
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I have already said that the presence of the big three in the top 10 is sacrosanct and that at most the individual positions within the top 10 can be discussed. Putting Nadal (who I consider the third of the big three) ahead of Ronaldo, Kobe or Phelps does not I consider it minimally a sin of treason. However, I would be very curious to see one of your top 10s exposing his wisdom to public ridicule.
 
A normal-sized human like Messi illuminating the most global and popular sport is far greater than a rare giant pulling heavy balls through some suitably located loops - and I played and liked basketball!
 
Marcel Hirscher (and Odermatt coming), Mikaela Shiffrin and Lindsey Kildow/Vonn, Valentino Rossi, Tadej Pogačar...
 
Why is the "American hate" unjustified? If you put athletes playing obscure American-centric sports in a top 10 list and name it GREATEST ATHLETES of the 21st Century of course people would wanna have a word with you about your hubris. I can understand basketball being a global sport and Lebron definitely deserves his name and position. But guys like Brady, Mahomes and Crosby? Honestly not so much.

I know we're talking about absolute level of skill and athleticism, but if we're on that guys playing even more obscure sports like Sepak Takraw are also ridiculously talented, but they are rightfully not on the list because of the global appeal of the sport. Global popularity definitely has to be accounted for as well.
 
Winner Sinner said:
I chose what I consider the 10 best athletes of this millennium, not the best athletes in the strict sense, otherwise the list should be monopolized by track and field interpreters, for example a Duplantis?

We talk about greatness parameterized to the respective sports/disciplines, or rather, the ranking drawn up (made with the feet) in the preview comment is based on those parameters, otherwise why put Brady so high?

And in any case, even if we wanted to base it on athleticism, every athlete has their own requirements and principles. Wanting to compare Bolt with Djokovic while comparing totally different sports, one based exclusively on his physique while the other also on the skills required by the game (tennis), Djokovic obviously will not be able to compete with Bolt on pure speed, but if we talk about resistance and coordination , or other aspects that determine the qualities of an athlete, the Serbian wins, precisely because the principles required in their sports are totally different.
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It could be also argued that the Big 3 are so dominant in their sport because a lot of athletic kids took up other sports long back, this allowed european dominance in tennis, it also created a weak set of cucks (90s gen) who helped the Big 3 pile up big numbers. Do you see the connection here? Dearth of athletes can pump up numbers for those who remain, so athleticism and results are not always in sync.

@weakera is saying 3 tennis players should not be in your top 6 and he is right because Tennis does not rank that high on the totempole for athleticism for its athletes to lead the table worldwide across sports.
 
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Razer said:
It could be also argued that the Big 3 are so dominant in their sport because a lot of athletic kids took up other sports long back, this not only allowed european dominance in tennis, it also created a weak set of cucks (90s gen) who helped the Big 3 pile up big numbers. Do you see the connection here? Dearth of athletes can pump up numbers for those who remain, so athleticism and results are not always in sync.

@weakera is saying 3 tennis players should not be in your top 6 and he is right because Tennis does not rank that high on the totempole for athleticism for its athletes to lead the table worldwide across sports.
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One of your better posts that. Its a definite issue that the best athletes in many countries go to other sports as in say soccer or NFL, there is a much higher chance of making mega money without having to be as good as one would need to be in tennis to make mega money and its much cheaper for parents to encourage their kids in those sports as for one thing there is no travel needed to different countries that is needed in tennis early on.
 
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