Rafael Nadal: Tennis must protect clay

[m2nk2]

It is obviously correct. You don't learn how to play on clay by practicing on wood, or ice. And you don't learn how to play on grass by practicing on clay.

The difficulties Borg had transitioning from clay to grass are legendary and demonstrate this. Yes, he won 5 Wimbledons and completed the FO-W double 3 times, but if you watch the documentary about him, amateur players who he practiced against in preparation for Wimbledon said that you wouldn't think he was a professional tennis player those first few days. Stuff like even missing balls.

Movement on clay and grass, for one thing, is completely different.

No, but if you only have one surface at your club. Clay would be the best choice.

 

[hawkeye63]

Top 4 in The Golden Era had formative years on clay.

Isner, Querrey et. al. didn't.

Not rocket science.

Protect Federer. Start calling time violations as soon as Roger complains. Throw Nole in his quarter at non-clay slams 13 times in a row "randomly" before Nole cuts out gluten.

 

[Mustard]

Bottom line is clay is the best surface on which to learn about how to play on clay, HC the best to learn about HC, grass the best to learn about grass.

I really doubt Becker would have been better on grass had he grown up on grass-courts.

 

[TMF]

I really doubt Becker would have been better on grass had he grown up on grass-courts.

He would have learned his net game, volley, chip-and-charge faster on grass than on clay. His return of serve is more tested on grass because it's harder to handle fast, low bounce ball. How effective his serve is more visible on fast court than on clay.

Basically, certainly skills(and most of them) are quicker to develop on faster court than on clay.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

The above seems more intuitive but it's still just supposition. Using one player to in part refute a "bottom line" point is disingenuous. Even the assumption that "...clay is the best surface on which to learn about how to play on clay, HC the best to learn about HC, grass the best to learn about grass..." is difficult to prove, though it seems quite logical on the surface (PUN TOTALLY INTENDED—not).

Given what we know about the most successful players in history and the paradigms they represent, there appears to rather be a bias for learning one's craft away from the clay courts (another assumption, and perhaps someone knows the exact details of the tennis upbringings of.. let's say.. all top-ten players in the history of tennis). I wouldn't call it either way really, and it's largely situational—depending on the existing tour conditions, and such.

 

[Mustard]

He would have learned his net game, volley, chip-and-charge faster on grass than on clay. His return of serve is more tested on grass because it's harder to handle fast, low bounce ball. How effective his serve is more visible on fast court than on clay.

Yet all that came naturally to Becker when he was a teenager. By growing up on clay, with its high bounces, slower pace, and long rallies, he had a solid ground based game to fall back on, and playing on grass for an attacking player like him was easier in comparison.

In Britain, grass tournaments were long common. How many champions over the years have come through the LTA system?

In the USA, players usually struggled for long periods on clay, with only a handful of exceptions. They seemed far more geared towards the big serving, ultra-aggressive style of game, and generally on hardcourts. These days, with poly strings and baseline grinding predominating on tour everywhere, that has really hurt the more recent American players.

 

[SLD76]

Yet all that came naturally to Becker when he was a teenager. By growing up on clay, with its high bounces, slower pace, and long rallies, he had a solid ground based game to fall back on, and playing on grass for an attacking player like him was easier in comparison.

In Britain, grass tournaments were long common. How many champions over the years have come through the LTA system?

In the USA, players usually struggled for long periods on clay, with only a handful of exceptions. They seemed far more geared towards the big serving, ultra-aggressive style of game, and generally on hardcourts. These days, with poly strings and baseline grinding predominating on tour everywhere, that has really hurt the more recent American players.

I can't really disagree. It's why Pmac has called for more clay courts to built and establishing more American academies abroad so US youth can play on clay.

 

[jg153040]

Becker was brought up on clay, for example. The fact that he ended up being better on other surfaces doesn't change the fact that he benefitted from growing up on clay.

That doesn't prove anything. Sampras didn't grew up on clay and he was also dominant on other surfaces.

So, it proves some people will suck on clay if they train on clay or not.

 

[jg153040]

I really doubt Becker would have been better on grass had he grown up on grass-courts.

Lol, you really crack me up.

I guess you doubt that Rafa's English would have been better had he grown up in America?

I think you should read a book from Micheal Shermer. It's called Why Smart People Believe Weird things.

 

[Sysyphus]

Clay courts are on average more widespread in less privileged parts of the world, and perhaps players from such places and cultures tend to want it just that bit more? Just a guess about a possible contribution, but seeing how so many players come from well-off homes I doubt there is much too it.

 

[jg153040]

Clay courts are on average more widespread in less privileged parts of the world, and perhaps players from such places and cultures tend to want it just that bit more? Just a guess about a possible contribution, but seeing how so many players come from well-off homes I doubt there is much too it.

Is that true? Why do then some posters say that HC is cheaper?

 

[Mustard]

Lol, you really crack me up.

Do I? Why is Patrick McEnroe backing the building of more clay-courts for American players then?

Is that true? Why do then some posters say that HC is cheaper?

Because it is cheaper.

 

[jg153040]

Do I? Why is Patrick McEnroe backing the building of more clay-courts for American players then?



Because it is cheaper.

So Patrick McEnroe is backing up the building of clay courts to make players better on HC and grass?

Or maybe it's this. Watch it, I know this is crazy but stay with me. Maybe he is doing that to make American players better on CLAY. I know, sounds crazy. But my argument is that clay is important for rankings, so they want American players to be better on clay.

 

[TMF]

This is not the 80s and 90s anymore. The conditions has changed in favor of grinding fest and defensive style like Nadal and host of players from Spain and South America.

The American has no choice but to adapt/change to slow condition in order to be competitive against the world. Right now, the most ideal tennis player is not a power serve and attacking tennis, but a player that is tremendous fit, great stamina and likes to run. Isner, Querry and Fish are not an ideal tennis players unless they are in the 80s.

As someone has already mentioned, more slow courts invite PED because it's perfect for stamina/endurance.

 

[Anaconda]

I've gone back home

Ah, what did you study?

 

[m2nk2]

Are you mad?

Because of one clay 250 outside of the traditional clay season you suggest that clay will be almost completely gone in 15 years?! Especially when the countries in which said clay tournaments take place play almost exclusively on clay??

Mind boggling stuff this.

South America will be more hard court than clay in just a few years. Already 2 tournaments are switching, and Rio 2016 on top of that.

We need more grass masters, clay tournaments and less hard court overall.

Nadal is right.

 

[jg153040]

South America will be more hard court than clay in just a few years. Already 2 tournaments are switching, and Rio 2016 on top of that.

We need more grass masters, clay tournaments and less hard court overall.

Nadal is right.

We also need more indoor. I would love to see indoor clay and indoor grass.

 

[m2nk2]

Yet all that came naturally to Becker when he was a teenager. By growing up on clay, with its high bounces, slower pace, and long rallies, he had a solid ground based game to fall back on, and playing on grass for an attacking player like him was easier in comparison.

In Britain, grass tournaments were long common. How many champions over the years have come through the LTA system?

In the USA, players usually struggled for long periods on clay, with only a handful of exceptions. They seemed far more geared towards the big serving, ultra-aggressive style of game, and generally on hardcourts. These days, with poly strings and baseline grinding predominating on tour everywhere, that has really hurt the more recent American players.

I agree with this. In Sweden, almost all outdoor courts are clay. And we generally have more outdoor courts than indoor courts.

And Sweden is historically the second best tennis nation (despite only 9 million people) so I'd say it works pretty well to grow up playing on clay.

 

[m2nk2]

We also need more indoor. I would love to see indoor clay and indoor grass.

I still see tennis as an outdoor sport but sure, why not.

 

[Berasategui94]

There's quite enough of clay tournaments and tennis should be more worried about "protecting" fast hard courts. I mean, what on earth is the point in making all HC's so slow it's almost like playing on clay? It's gotten ridiculous, there's no real variety. I'm sick and tired of the endless grinding, they've taken the slowing down too far. We don't need to go back to 90s tennis but to me most HC's should play like Dubai/Cincinnati.

 

[Mustard]

There's quite enough of clay tournaments and tennis should be more worried about "protecting" fast hard courts. I mean, what on earth is the point in making all HC's so slow it's almost like playing on clay? It's gotten ridiculous, there's no real variety. I'm sick and tired of the endless grinding, they've taken the slowing down too far. We don't need to go back to 90s tennis but to me most HC's should play like Dubai/Cincinnati.

A rather ironic opinion considering your username

In all seriousnessness, hardcourt plays nothing like clay, and never has. There's a reason why Nadal has dominated on clay over the years, but not on hardcourt.

 

[Starbuckingham]

The Ugly Side of Clay Courts

This week in Monte-Carlo we saw the ugly side of clay courts. Tiny inconsistencies in the surface beneath the crushed red brick dressing led to three ankle injuries. One French qualifier went down in the qualifiers, then Juan Monaco and Julien Bennetau went down, turning their ankles gruesomely in the back court while mid-slide. All of this prompted Andy Murray to say “There’s holes everywhere,” while looking on from his chair as Benneteau was tended to. Rafael Nadal mentioned that he was “scared” too. He said he had both ankles taped but he was still crossing his fingers. He proceeded to mention that “The guys who make the court, they have to look around.”- See more at: http://www.tennisnow.com/News/Heroe...ge-Holes-in-the-Cla.aspx#sthash.B4c1n1Sm.dpuf

 

[Berasategui94]

A rather ironic opinion considering your username

In all seriousnessness, hardcourt plays nothing like clay, and never has. There's a reason why Nadal has dominated on clay over the years, but not on hardcourt.

Yeah, he used to be my favorite player in the 90s. That crazy forehand...

I know it doesn't really play like clay but most of the HC's are now way too slow and the game is too similar, there's should be a bigger difference between the surfaces than there's now.

 

[Mustard]

Yeah, he used to be my favorite player in the 90s. That crazy forehand...

I know it doesn't really play like clay but most of the HC's are now way too slow and the game is too similar, there's should be a bigger difference between the surfaces than there's now.

If you watch a match from the 1990s, it's clear that there's less power than today. The vital factor today is the poly strings, which enables players to hit with even more power, while also tending more towards topspin, meaning that there's less unforced errors, and players being able to dictate with a depth and authority in the rallies on a consistent basis, which they couldn't do before. At the same time, this means play predominating from the baseline everywhere.

If poly strings were banned and everyone used gut strings from this moment, styles on different surfaces would be just as polarised as in the 1990s. But that's like saying what would happen if they went back to wooden racquets. The past is the past.

 

[m2nk2]

The Ugly Side of Clay Courts

3 years old mate. Nice try.

 

[Starbuckingham]

3 years old mate. Nice try.

So what? It can happen again. Human is erratic and they don't yet have high precision robot to make clay consistently safe. Nadal can whine as much as he likes but it won't change Acapulco and Buenos Aires reality.

 

[hawkeye63]

Starbuckingham, who is your favourite player and what is your favourite colour.

#Rhetorical

 

[Starbuckingham]

Starbuckingham, who is your favourite player and what is your favourite colour.

#Rhetorical

Carlos Bernardes, a great player that gets into Nadal's head.

Favourite color is Dust In Brown, the color of Halle Annihilation. Pure aggressive color, no?

 

[hawkeye63]

As thought.

I have ESP.

 

[tenisdecente]

Carlos Bernardes, a great player that gets into Nadal's head.

Favourite color is Dust In Brown, the color of Halle Annihilation. Pure aggressive color, no?

 

[Berasategui94]

If you watch a match from the 1990s, it's clear that there's less power than today. The vital factor today is the poly strings, which enables players to hit with even more power, while also tending more towards topspin, meaning that there's less unforced errors, and players being able to dictate with a depth and authority in the rallies on a consistent basis, which they couldn't do before. At the same time, this means play predominating from the baseline everywhere.

If poly strings were banned and everyone used gut strings from this moment, styles on different surfaces would be just as polarised as in the 1990s. But that's like saying what would happen if they went back to wooden racquets. The past is the past.

Yes, players are for sure more powerful and can hit harder but they're also quicker around the court, more athletic etc. so hitting winners is harder for those reasons, too.

I wouldn't even want go back to the 90s because the game was dominated too much by the serve, and that was the main reason for slowing down the courts (and balls). I'm just saying they should make hard courts faster and lower bouncing than they're now. Surfaces like in Dubai would be pretty good, they should reward aggressive play and shot making.

 

[Berasategui94]

I meant to say players are also more powerful in addition to the strings giving more power to the groundstrokes.

 

[The Green Mile]

I meant to say players are also more powerful in addition to the strings giving more power to the groundstrokes.

A fan of the Hawaiin grip?

 

[Deleted member 688153]

We also need more indoor. I would love to see indoor clay and indoor grass.

indoor grass

The ideal court surface.

I vote for an indoor court, in Switzerland or Germany, with half grass and half Cincy HC.
Pro Staff 90s are the only racquets allowed too.

I think that we'd find that these are the ideal conditions for the best and most talented players to win.

2005 Federer = Rogi to lose < 3 games if he's a bit off

 

[m2nk2]

So what? It can happen again. Human is erratic and they don't yet have high precision robot to make clay consistently safe. Nadal can whine as much as he likes but it won't change Acapulco and Buenos Aires reality.

There has been no problems at MC after that. It was just an isolated incident. Meanwhile, hard court is bad even on the best of courts.

 

[Berasategui94]

A fan of the Hawaiin grip?

Can't say I'm a fan but respect to guys who can hit the ball over the net with it.

Too bad Berasategui didn't have a backhand so he couldn't win FO.

 

[racquetreligion]

we need less hard court but I agree there should be more clay for juniors not for pros and more grass for pros even if its a refined carpet type syn grass or anything that would reward aggressive players.

 

[HoyaPride]

Here we go again :roll: Why are you misinterpreting his words for the umpteenth time?

1. He didn't say that we need more claycourt tournaments

2. He was asked a question, whether he would return to Buenos Aires next year and he said that he doesn't know because the tournament is supposed to change surface to hard.

So yes, he's right, we don't need more hardcourt tournaments. Acapulco already changed to hard last year and apparently BA is planning to do the same next year.

So why are they turning more and more tournaments to hardcourts? The Golden swing should stay clay.

There's nothing wrong with what he said. He wasn't whining at all. The next time do some research before you open a thread like this because you know it will cause a *****storm.

I don't think anyone read this post.

 

[Starbuckingham]

Can't say I'm a fan but respect to guys who can hit the ball over the net with it.

Too bad Berasategui didn't have a backhand so he couldn't win FO.

I once tried Hawaiian grip and my shots were too weak.... So back to my eastern and semi western and continental.

 

[jg153040]

The ideal court surface.

I vote for an indoor court, in Switzerland or Germany, with half grass and half Cincy HC.
Pro Staff 90s are the only racquets allowed too.

I think that we'd find that these are the ideal conditions for the best and most talented players to win.

2005 Federer = Rogi to lose < 3 games if he's a bit off

Now that you reminded me about rackets, I would also love wooden racket slam. Or at least wooden racket 500 tournament.

 

[Paul Murphy]

More crap and complaints from Nadal.
There are far too many clay tournaments as it is.
Poor Rafa.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

I don't think anyone read this post.

You got me.

 

[Russeljones]

I don't think anyone read this post.

Maybe because it conveniently omitted Stuttgart becoming a clay tournament; Madrid becoming a clay tournament and so on.