Rafa's contributions to tennis

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Once in a while comes along a player who revolutionizes the game with a NEW idea or skill.

Big Bill Tilden provided the systematic theoretical foundation for the game.

Jack Kramer is said to have made serve and volley popular.

Rod Laver pioneered the 1 handed BH topspin, and Borg did that for the 2 hander.

Lendl and Navratilova took fitness aspects to a new level.

Since then, there have been no pioneers till Rafa, who has taken the forehand topspin to a new level in synchrony with the use of lighter, bigger frames and poly strings technology. He has inspired a whole generation of juniors.

Do you agree that Rafa is permanently enshrined in the Anals of tennis history?
 

Start da Game

Hall of Fame
absolutely......there are two types of greats in my book......textbook greats and revolutionary or unconventional greats......rafa's tennis is unique......
 

Vcore89

G.O.A.T.
Once in a while comes along a player who revolutionizes the game with a NEW idea or skill.

Big Bill Tilden provided the systematic theoretical foundation for the game.

Jack Kramer is said to have made serve and volley popular.

Rod Laver pioneered the 1 handed BH topspin, and Borg did that for the 2 hander.

Lendl and Navratilova took fitness aspects to a new level.

Since then, there have been no pioneers till Rafa, who has taken the forehand topspin to a new level in synchrony with the use of lighter, bigger frames and poly strings technology. He has inspired a whole generation of juniors.

Do you agree that Rafa is permanently enshrined in the Anals of tennis history?
In The annals of tennis? The Energiser Bunny or in BG's book, Winning Ugly?:-| He is Goat material, alright! But there's nothing more to it.
 

dudeski

Hall of Fame
Nadal's innovative use of mind games such as fake MTOs or excessive celebrations is a major contribution to tennis.
 

Omega_7000

Legend
Was he the first one to use "lighter, bigger frames and poly strings"?

Was he the first one to hit forehands with large amounts of topspin?
 

tacou

G.O.A.T.
Well Federer definitely contributed to the game. I wasn't around for Pete, so maybe he had a similar effect, but Sampras' greatness made Roger look even better. Until Rafa really came into form, non-tennis fans knew who Roger Federer was and understood he was a living legend.

Rafa, again, played off of Fed's greatness and his ability to beat him in big matches made their slam meetings popular events with people who generally didn't watch tennis. As an individual, I think he helped people understand how grueling the sport is, both in terms of his physical style of play and his ability to bounce back from serious injuries.
 

President

Legend
Guga Kuerten, Carlos Moya, hell even Andy Roddick all had big spinny topspin forehands with large framed racquets and polyester strings well before Nadal ever made the top 50. He wasn't an innovator in this regard, just the most successful at applying it.
 

dudeski

Hall of Fame
Guga Kuerten, Carlos Moya, hell even Andy Roddick all had big spinny topspin forehands with large framed racquets and polyester strings well before Nadal ever made the top 50. He wasn't an innovator in this regard, just the most successful at applying it.
So does that mean that I was right in my previous post that Nadal's biggest contribution to tennis was gamesmanship? I think Nadal exceeded greatly Jimmy Connors in this respect?
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Has there been any players who have never lost a tennis match ?
He should be enshrined just for that.



(unless injured)
 

Backspin1183

G.O.A.T.
He's definitely taken tennis to new heights. Like Federer before him.

Federer is probably one of the best textbook player of all time.
Nadal's style is unique, one of its kind.
 

MonkeyBoy

Hall of Fame
Since then, there have been no pioneers till Rafa,
There have been some other mini revolutionaries… like Agassi proliferating the hug-the-baseline,-hit-early-on-the-rise style thats more and more standard.

Djokovic's hard court sliding as well may well be more popularized in the days to come
 
E

Ecoplex

Guest
He's definitely taken tennis to new heights. Like Federer before him.

Federer is the best textbook player of all time.
Nadal's style is unique, one of its kind.

Fixed it for you. Early proclamations by Laver and CO. of Goathood were based on his technique and seemingly efforless movement, long before he broke the Sampras slam record.
 

urundai

Professional
Once in a while comes along a player who revolutionizes the game with a NEW idea or skill.

Big Bill Tilden provided the systematic theoretical foundation for the game.

Jack Kramer is said to have made serve and volley popular.

Rod Laver pioneered the 1 handed BH topspin, and Borg did that for the 2 hander.

Lendl and Navratilova took fitness aspects to a new level.

Since then, there have been no pioneers till Rafa, who has taken the forehand topspin to a new level in synchrony with the use of lighter, bigger frames and poly strings technology. He has inspired a whole generation of juniors.

Do you agree that Rafa is permanently enshrined in the Anals of tennis history?
By you description, Nadal invented the string & racquet technology as well and suddenly made thousands of Juniors to give up soccer etc to take up Tennis and made it the #1 sports in the world.

I am sure you are a great fan of Nadal but to belittle all the champions from Lendl Era to Nadal (about 20+ years) means you have don't follow tennis but only one player.

Sorry, no way how you spin it (in 30K posts so far), Nadal is a great player but he will never be bigger than the sport. Not any one will ever be, for that matter.
 

Vcore89

G.O.A.T.
So many diehard fans but the thread would seem to suggest he is another (very) good player but he didn't revolutionised tennis.:-|
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
Do you agree that Rafa is permanently enshrined in the Anals of tennis history?


Without a shadow of a doubt.
 

tennis_hack

Banned
I don't see any 'mini-Nadal's' upcoming in the ranks - do you?

Apart from Dimitrov, I don't see any 'mini-Federer's' upcoming in the ranks either.

Basically, a young tennis pro is not allowed to be influenced by his idols. He gets all of his personal influences coached out of him. His style ends up that of the style his coaches want him to be - and usually the coaches will ensure he develops in the style of an 'averagely good' player with a generic and consistent semi-aggressive baseline game - something like a Tipsarevic.

In 15 years you will see an ATP top 100 full of 100 Tipsarevic's.
 

Manus Domini

Hall of Fame
Once in a while comes along a player who revolutionizes the game with a NEW idea or skill.

Big Bill Tilden provided the systematic theoretical foundation for the game.

Jack Kramer is said to have made serve and volley popular.

Rod Laver pioneered the 1 handed BH topspin, and Borg did that for the 2 hander.

Lendl and Navratilova took fitness aspects to a new level.

Since then, there have been no pioneers till Rafa, who has taken the forehand topspin to a new level in synchrony with the use of lighter, bigger frames and poly strings technology. He has inspired a whole generation of juniors.

Do you agree that Rafa is permanently enshrined in the Anals* of tennis history?
*annals?

Also, Budge revolutionized the 1hbh topspin, didn't he?

Didn't Courier bring forth the pull shot, rather than the push shot of the past?
 

chjtennis

G.O.A.T.
His place in the history of tennis is cemented. That's a truth.

Another thing he may have contributed is that he open-mindedly took stem-cell therapy. It is not really medically approved treatment and no one knows what side effects it may cause. He took the role of guinea pig, however, and looks like it may be the right decision. If Nadal successfully prolongs his career with the help of this treatment, other players with various chronic conditions may follow suit and get the benefit out of it. That may be a big contribution as well.
 

The-Champ

Legend
Rafa's contributions to tennis? Rafa's game is a philosophical beauty. That is his biggest contribution to tennis. He is not only striking the ball, if you look closely, his game and overall persona on court emanates from the thoughts of Hume, Hobbes and the peculiarity of Kants character. I don't know about you guys, but everytime I watch Rafa play, I feel like I'm experiencing a philosophical odyssey.

Thank You Rafa for educating the rest of us!! :D
 

Vcore89

G.O.A.T.
Not going to lie. Totally giggled like a schoolkid at "Anals of tennis history".
I'm sure it was just a typo or deliberately masked to meant something else.

In The annals of tennis? The Energiser Bunny or in BG's book, Winning Ugly?:-| He is Goat material, alright! But there's nothing more to it.
He wasn't really a revolutionary like General Franco was.;)

You want to talk about FRENCH OPEN champions butcherers?

Take a look at former FRENCH OPEN CHAMPION Mme. Francoise Durr's backhand and get back to me.

This is a gem.:-|
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
His place in the history of tennis is cemented. That's a truth.

Another thing he may have contributed is that he open-mindedly took stem-cell therapy. It is not really medically approved treatment and no one knows what side effects it may cause. He took the role of guinea pig, however, and looks like it may be the right decision. If Nadal successfully prolongs his career with the help of this treatment, other players with various chronic conditions may follow suit and get the benefit out of it. That may be a big contribution as well.
guinea pig or capy bara?
 

Incognito

Legend
Rafa's contributions to tennis? Rafa's game is a philosophical beauty. That is his biggest contribution to tennis. He is not only striking the ball, if you look closely, his game and overall persona on court emanates from the thoughts of Hume, Hobbes and the peculiarity of Kants character. I don't know about you guys, but everytime I watch Rafa play, I feel like I'm experiencing a philosophical odyssey.

Thank You Rafa for educating the rest of us!! :D
If what you say is true and Rafa indeed educates his fans and they understand the intricacies of his tennis and on court personality, then Rafa's fans possess intelligence higher than any group of people in the world and maybe in the history of human race. ForehandOfDoom, TheOrder and you The Champ are the ones I can come up with for now, and of course the long gone...TheLoneWolf. There are many of you that I have forgotten but overall, you Rafa fans are extremely gifted people. I'm a fan of Rafa but I'm a bigger fan of Juan Martin. I do not get a sense of philosophical odyssey watching Juan Martin though, what I get is something so much better i.e a sexual/hormonal excursion. :oops: I also like Andy Murray. Him being a Scot, the blood of the great Hume flows through him which explains his fondness of Rafa.

I read this post today and I've been thinking all day at work Mr M. So here's my take on it...

Hume's Philosophy is not normative and Rafa's tennis is considered "unconventional" by many LOL. Hume believed "justice" is nonsense and even artificial and therefore would rather look at tendencies. Rafa doesn't always violate the time between points rule, does he? Only after a grueling point or during pressured situations or when crowds are booing, cheering etc and needs to settle down. The biggest similarity between Rafa's tennis and Hume is the fact that; They both respect the rule of law but demands moderation and flexibility. Rafa's tennis also evokes the social contract through dialectics of Plato and Socrates rather than debates. His tennis is a well reasoned discourse of; "don't govern me in the 21st Century with your medieval laws because the game has changed and evolved". Both Kant and Rafa have OCDs. Kant would walk on the same street, would walk the same way home, shop at the same store at the exact same time everyday in the latter part of his life, while Rafa has his butt-pickings and pre-coin toss rituals. Rafa's tennis is also an embodiment of the great Kant's categorical imperative where his tennis argues that the "time between points rule" needs to examined closely before it can be adapted as a universal law. :D

Anyway M, I e-mailed you. I would rather discuss this in Swedish where I can freely express myself linguistically. :)
 
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The-Champ

Legend
If what you say is true and Rafa indeed educates his fans and they understand the intricacies of his tennis and on court personality, then Rafa's fans possess intelligence higher than any group of people in the world and maybe in the history of human race. ForehandOfDoom, TheOrder and you The Champ are the ones I can come up with for now, and of course the long gone...TheLoneWolf. There are many of you that I have forgotten but overall, you Rafa fans are extremely gifted people. I'm a fan of Rafa but I'm a bigger fan of Juan Martin. I do not get a sense of philosophical odyssey watching Juan Martin though, what I get is something so much better i.e a sexual/hormonal excursion. :oops: I also like Andy Murray. Him being a Scot, the blood of the great Hume flows through him which explains his fondness of Rafa.

I read this post today and I've been thinking all day at work Mr M. So here's my take on it...

Hume's Philosophy is not normative and Rafa's tennis is considered "unconventional" by many LOL. Hume believed "justice" is nonsense and even artificial and therefore would rather look at tendencies. Rafa doesn't always violate the time between points rule, does he? Only after a grueling point or during pressured situations or when crowds are booing, cheering etc and needs to settle down. The biggest similarity between Rafa's tennis and Hume is the fact that; They both respect the rule of law but demands moderation and flexibility. Rafa's tennis also evokes the social contract through dialectics of Plato and Socrates rather than debates. His tennis is a well reasoned discourse of; "don't govern me in the 21st Century with your medieval laws because the game has changed and evolved". Both Kant and Rafa have OCDs. Kant would walk on the same street, would walk the same way home, shop at the same store at the exact same time everyday in the latter part of his life, while Rafa has his butt-pickings and pre-coin toss rituals. Rafa's tennis is also an embodiment of the great Kant's categorical imperative where his tennis argues that the "time between points rule" needs to examined closely before it can be adapted as a universal law. :D

Anyway M, I e-mailed you. I would rather discuss this in Swedish where I can freely express myself linguistically.



Brilliant as always Incognito and thanks for your kind words to us Rafa fans. You are a conundrum to me. You can discuss makeup and all the bimbo stuff, and 5 minutes later you will present a lucid analysis of the Arab spring and the syrian conflict. You are a chameleon lol. Who is the real Incognito? Rafa may not be your favorite but we welcome you to the fold anytime you want. :D I have nothing against DelPo, seems like a good guy but I just find him rather dry and uninteresting, like one of your heroes "Diogenes". :(
 
Rafa's contributions to tennis? Rafa's game is a philosophical beauty. That is his biggest contribution to tennis. He is not only striking the ball, if you look closely, his game and overall persona on court emanates from the thoughts of Hume, Hobbes and the peculiarity of Kants character. I don't know about you guys, but everytime I watch Rafa play, I feel like I'm experiencing a philosophical odyssey.

Thank You Rafa for educating the rest of us!! :D


excellent post.

all he does is win and shows the world how to win.

as it stands right this very second, he has won 670 matches and lost just 130.

that is a winning percentage of 83.75%.

that is the highest winning percentage in history.

he is required to kill so he kills. what else is there.

but for these professional rafa haters, he cant do anything right at all.

by the way I sent you an email. check it out when you have a moment.
 

marc45

G.O.A.T.
Well Federer definitely contributed to the game. I wasn't around for Pete, so maybe he had a similar effect, but Sampras' greatness made Roger look even better. Until Rafa really came into form, non-tennis fans knew who Roger Federer was and understood he was a living legend.

Rafa, again, played off of Fed's greatness and his ability to beat him in big matches made their slam meetings popular events with people who generally didn't watch tennis. As an individual, I think he helped people understand how grueling the sport is, both in terms of his physical style of play and his ability to bounce back from serious injuries.
I think Sampras raised the game athletically....I remember Mary Carillo in an early Sampras broadcast remarking that she always wondered if an all-around jock took up tennis...someone, I think she meant, that you could imagine succeeding at a lot of other sports that required great athleticism...Lendl and Courier upped the ante on working out and training but Sampras had the raw goods to apply it...now you don't even apply to be at the top if you're not a phenomenal athlete...no big serves, or fabulous shot-making or ball striking alone can save you without it...Nadal certainly signifies that, sitting at number 1
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
He certainly made the game more physical. Which to me is more entertaining. No one can really wear you down during a match quite like Rafa.
 

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
If what you say is true and Rafa indeed educates his fans and they understand the intricacies of his tennis and on court personality, then Rafa's fans possess intelligence higher than any group of people in the world and maybe in the history of human race. ForehandOfDoom, TheOrder and you The Champ are the ones I can come up with for now, and of course the long gone...TheLoneWolf. There are many of you that I have forgotten but overall, you Rafa fans are extremely gifted people. I'm a fan of Rafa but I'm a bigger fan of Juan Martin. I do not get a sense of philosophical odyssey watching Juan Martin though, what I get is something so much better i.e a sexual/hormonal excursion. :oops: I also like Andy Murray. Him being a Scot, the blood of the great Hume flows through him which explains his fondness of Rafa.

I read this post today and I've been thinking all day at work Mr M. So here's my take on it...

Hume's Philosophy is not normative and Rafa's tennis is considered "unconventional" by many LOL. Hume believed "justice" is nonsense and even artificial and therefore would rather look at tendencies. Rafa doesn't always violate the time between points rule, does he? Only after a grueling point or during pressured situations or when crowds are booing, cheering etc and needs to settle down. The biggest similarity between Rafa's tennis and Hume is the fact that; They both respect the rule of law but demands moderation and flexibility. Rafa's tennis also evokes the social contract through dialectics of Plato and Socrates rather than debates. His tennis is a well reasoned discourse of; "don't govern me in the 21st Century with your medieval laws because the game has changed and evolved". Both Kant and Rafa have OCDs. Kant would walk on the same street, would walk the same way home, shop at the same store at the exact same time everyday in the latter part of his life, while Rafa has his butt-pickings and pre-coin toss rituals. Rafa's tennis is also an embodiment of the great Kant's categorical imperative where his tennis argues that the "time between points rule" needs to examined closely before it can be adapted as a universal law. :D

Anyway M, I e-mailed you. I would rather discuss this in Swedish where I can freely express myself linguistically. :)
You expressed it very well in English. Best post ever.
 

The-Champ

Legend
excellent post.

all he does is win and shows the world how to win.

as it stands right this very second, he has won 670 matches and lost just 130.

that is a winning percentage of 83.75%.

that is the highest winning percentage in history.

he is required to kill so he kills. what else is there.

but for these professional rafa haters, he cant do anything right at all.

by the way I sent you an email. check it out when you have a moment.
Thanks DM! I changed the e-mail adress in my profile, forgot the password in the old one :D Send the mail again to the new one.. thanks!
 
I think in order to fully appreciate Rafa's game, you have to have played a heavy topspin game at a reasonable level.

you have to have had quite a record on clay also. heavy topspin game off both wings requires an incredible amount of physical and mental capital. there are no easy points on clay. you have to work for everything.

and that is just a start. you need considerable athletic ability as that surface is shifty and slippery. tennis demands that you are a great athlete anyway.

you need intense focus to zero in on every point and not let go of it if possible.


you need to constantly think and improvise. you need strategy and tactics which means you need to be able to think and do some problem solving. point construction is a part of that critical thinking.

you need amazing consistency off both wings. a few good forehands or backhands may not get the job done. you may have to hit 10 good forehands to win a point.

anyway if you cant play a little bit like guys like Rafa, Vilas, or Muster then you are in no position to know how difficult their craft is.
 
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