Rally Practice Video

tlm

G.O.A.T.
#1
Here is some practice from today before we played a set. I used a better camera so it should look much better than that last fuzzy video. I am starting to get the hang of the two hander but still have a long way to go. I am not that confident in point play so I still slice a lot but I am starting to use it more. Any advise on the backhand would be appreciated, I think it's to late for the forehand I use what I have on that shot.

 

dimkin

Hall of Fame
#2
it seems to me you are trying to recreate your forehand, very extreme grip, holding very tight, very little racquet lag, and contact point that's too close to the body/too forward . . . that's what I noticed (I hit a 2h)
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
#3
it seems to me you are trying to recreate your forehand, very extreme grip, holding very tight, very little racquet lag, and contact point that's too close to the body/too forward . . . that's what I noticed (I hit a 2h)
You might be right I am brushing a lot on the backhand. I found that I am more consistent by using a more closed grip on the backhand.
 
#4
Not sure what part you'd most like advice on, but I'd probably call this short lob practice - slow shots 7 feet above the net landing near the service line. If you don't start hitting through, lowering the trajectory, and going for depth then your opponents will destroy those balls. back the racquet up, extend your arms more, and put more power horizontally instead of vertically to give yourself more of a weapon.
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
#6
It seems like you invest a lot of time and energy into tennis so I'm assuming you really want to improve. However as others have pointed out, your homegrown technique works well at lower to mid levels but at 4.5 and above, it is too easy to dissect your game. Low slice to your FH or any shot to your BH will result in relatively easy putaways at the net. Your serve is also uni-directional and allows for FH returns almost 100% of the time from the deuce court. That is like a fastball pitcher who throws each pitch down the middle of the plate.

There are people with the proper technique whom you can beat now, that with enough practice and time will come back to beat you. And you will never be able to catch up to them with your current technique. It's kind of like a strong man competition where you are pushing a heavy object 5% uphill and your competition with the proper technique is pushing it 5% downhill.

Long story short, to get truly better which I believe you can, you need to revamp your stroke techniques.
 
A

Attila_the_gorilla

Guest
#7
I think TLM is not trying to play good tennis. He wants a good workout, that's all. It's working well, he's in great shape, especially given his age.
 
#8
It seems like you invest a lot of time and energy into tennis so I'm assuming you really want to improve. However as others have pointed out, your homegrown technique works well at lower to mid levels but at 4.5 and above, it is too easy to dissect your game. Low slice to your FH or any shot to your BH will result in relatively easy putaways at the net. Your serve is also uni-directional and allows for FH returns almost 100% of the time from the deuce court. That is like a fastball pitcher who throws each pitch down the middle of the plate.

There are people with the proper technique whom you can beat now, that with enough practice and time will come back to beat you. And you will never be able to catch up to them with your current technique. It's kind of like a strong man competition where you are pushing a heavy object 5% uphill and your competition with the proper technique is pushing it 5% downhill.

Long story short, to get truly better which I believe you can, you need to revamp your stroke techniques.
Yet, you wouldn't be able to beat him.
 
#10
It seems like you invest a lot of time and energy into tennis so I'm assuming you really want to improve. However as others have pointed out, your homegrown technique works well at lower to mid levels but at 4.5 and above, it is too easy to dissect your game. Low slice to your FH or any shot to your BH will result in relatively easy putaways at the net. Your serve is also uni-directional and allows for FH returns almost 100% of the time from the deuce court. That is like a fastball pitcher who throws each pitch down the middle of the plate.

There are people with the proper technique whom you can beat now, that with enough practice and time will come back to beat you. And you will never be able to catch up to them with your current technique. It's kind of like a strong man competition where you are pushing a heavy object 5% uphill and your competition with the proper technique is pushing it 5% downhill.

Long story short, to get truly better which I believe you can, you need to revamp your stroke techniques.
Well I should be able to play a lot of players then because the majority of singles players are 4.0 and below. Where I play the % of 4.5 level players and above is very small. Not sure how you came up with my serve being directed to the forehand, on the deuce side 90% of my serves are down the tee to the backhand.
 

dimkin

Hall of Fame
#12
tlm, I used to hit with a full western on my fh, and once I got in a grove, I started destroying the 3.5 crowd, as they were very uncomfortable with the bounce, the 4.0 crowd was mixed - some guys were lost with the shape of the ball, and some really ate it up esp if I wasn't generating the depth I needed. And some immediately started giving me short sliced into my fh, and watched me destroy myself . . . 4.5s and 5.0s ... yeah they didn't _really_ like the top spin, but they handled it easily.
Tough to have that top spin as your only weapon, so I switched to mod eastern and have been tinkering with it ever since ...
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
#13
Your probably right I just go with what I have which is mostly just being consistent.
In the end what's important is that you have fun. You'd have to revamp your technique quite extensively to get what I and others are advising, so it is perfectly understandable if you do not want to put in the time and effort when you could be having fun.
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
#14
tlm, I used to hit with a full western on my fh, and once I got in a grove, I started destroying the 3.5 crowd, as they were very uncomfortable with the bounce, the 4.0 crowd was mixed - some guys were lost with the shape of the ball, and some really ate it up esp if I wasn't generating the depth I needed. And some immediately started giving me short sliced into my fh, and watched me destroy myself . . . 4.5s and 5.0s ... yeah they didn't _really_ like the top spin, but they handled it easily.
Tough to have that top spin as your only weapon, so I switched to mod eastern and have been tinkering with it ever since ...
It was the same for me when I was in juniors.
 

jga111

Hall of Fame
#17
TLM you're falling back quite a lot on your shots and losing balance. Get in the habit of balancing the whole shot with your non-dominant your hand
 
#18
I took this as double entendre. Were you trying to be funny? If so, well done.
Yes that's hilarious, it's also funny how you are the expert critic but have not shown your strokes yet. Obviously you have perfect technique so it would benefit many of us to see a video of you hitting.
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
#19
I criticized no one in this thread but I hope Santa delivers you a sense of humor for Xmas.
Never said I had perfect technique, no close, but I do try to help beginners where I can.

Yes that's hilarious, it's also funny how you are the expert critic but have not shown your strokes yet. Obviously you have perfect technique so it would benefit many of us to see a video of you hitting.
 
#20
As always, the problem with your technique is a low ceiling tlm.
I took this as double entendre. Were you trying to be funny? If so, well done.
Yes that's hilarious, it's also funny how you are the expert critic but have not shown your strokes yet. Obviously you have perfect technique so it would benefit many of us to see a video of you hitting.
Oh, come on dude, that was pretty funny! Lighten up, otherwise you'll turn into the next Navigator! :D
 
#22
Not sure what part you'd most like advice on, but I'd probably call this short lob practice - slow shots 7 feet above the net landing near the service line. If you don't start hitting through, lowering the trajectory, and going for depth then your opponents will destroy those balls. back the racquet up, extend your arms more, and put more power horizontally instead of vertically to give yourself more of a weapon.
Well believe it or not I am actually hitting through some of these forehands better than in the past.
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
#24
Well I should be able to play a lot of players then because the majority of singles players are 4.0 and below. Where I play the % of 4.5 level players and above is very small. Not sure how you came up with my serve being directed to the forehand, on the deuce side 90% of my serves are down the tee to the backhand.
It was in your previous thread. I thought I saw most or all your serves go to FH on the deuce side.

If you are content at 4.0 or getting exercise, then no need to make major changes. As Spin to Win said, to revamp your strokes would take a lot of time and effort.
 
#25
It was in your previous thread. I thought I saw most or all your serves go to FH on the deuce side.

If you are content at 4.0 or getting exercise, then no need to make major changes. As Spin to Win said, to revamp your strokes would take a lot of time and effort.
No doubt it would be tough to make major changes. My main goal has been developing a consistent 2 handed backhand and believe it or not I have actually been hitting through the forehand more.
 

dimkin

Hall of Fame
#26
It was in your previous thread. I thought I saw most or all your serves go to FH on the deuce side.

If you are content at 4.0 or getting exercise, then no need to make major changes. As Spin to Win said, to revamp your strokes would take a lot of time and effort.
Took me 18 months to get the fh consistency back to where it was with the full western, but I really enjoyed the process, as it's cleaning up a lot of my game - movement,
low balls, ability to vary the spin, flattening out ... I guess I could have done that with the fw (clearly Nishikori can do it all), but eastern is more age-appropriate as well.
 
#27
Sure he could work on a technique where he gets his elbow a lot more away from his body. That's the critical factor in forehands for me. There is elbow away like rkelly and elbow close like TLM. Cheetah thinks rkelly would kill him - but we will never actually know.. And its too late for TLM to change up. Can the elbow close technique work?

I'd suggest something like this for TLM - elbow not EXACTLY stuck to body - but still close..


Adding some loop and a little bit of space and going full WTA style is much easier then going full Fed style like an rkelly.
 
#28
Took me 18 months to get the fh consistency back to where it was with the full western, but I really enjoyed the process, as it's cleaning up a lot of my game - movement,
low balls, ability to vary the spin, flattening out ... I guess I could have done that with the fw (clearly Nishikori can do it all), but eastern is more age-appropriate as well.
Changing to an eastern grip is progressing? I thought only the guys that learned years ago used that grip. SW I could understand but eastern?
 
#29
Sure he could work on a technique where he gets his elbow a lot more away from his body. That's the critical factor in forehands for me. There is elbow away like rkelly and elbow close like TLM. Cheetah thinks rkelly would kill him - but we will never actually know.. And its too late for TLM to change up. Can the elbow close technique work?

I'd suggest something like this for TLM - elbow not EXACTLY stuck to body - but still close..


Adding some loop and a little bit of space and going full WTA style is much easier then going full Fed style like an rkelly.
I do try getting the elbow away from the body at times and that with a little more spacing is a good suggestion.

But I have tried a straight arm forehand and it does give more power but it was not near consistent enough for my game.
 

dimkin

Hall of Fame
#30
Changing to an eastern grip is progressing? I thought only the guys that learned years ago used that grip. SW I could understand but eastern?
FW was natural for me - so from 20-38 I played with full western though my swing trajectory was flatter, I didn't lift the ball as much but was getting a high bounce. I switched to eastern/modified eastern,
but it's taking time to get rid of the old habits. My 2hbh has always been much flatter though - you can see my where it is now:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5_cZw7_z-Bha2dSbHNoMGxLc28/view?usp=sharing
 
#31
tlm, jga111 gave you a good advice. You're falling back on most shots. Try to go forward, through the ball - to do that you will need to bring your racket back earlier/faster.
One good thing about your game is that you hit the ball high enough over the net. Keep doing that - it's always better hit the ball long than hit it into the net.
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
#32
FW was natural for me - so from 20-38 I played with full western though my swing trajectory was flatter, I didn't lift the ball as much but was getting a high bounce. I switched to eastern/modified eastern,
but it's taking time to get rid of the old habits. My 2hbh has always been much flatter though - you can see my where it is now:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5_cZw7_z-Bha2dSbHNoMGxLc28/view?usp=sharing
Pretty solid stuff from both sides. You have good balance and a nice unit turn on your 2hbh. On the FH's that you miss, particularly when you are pull wide, you seem to arm the ball and lose a little balance.

Your coach seems to be pretty knowledgeable and picks up right away on the little things to fix. Looking at the way he controls his shots, I bet he was a heck of a player.
 
#34
Changing to an eastern grip is progressing? I thought only the guys that learned years ago used that grip. SW I could understand but eastern?
The forehand grip that someone holds is not indicative of how much they have or haven't progressed. Especially at recreational levels.
 
#36
I agree but most players I know that have changed have went from eastern to semi western.
That doesn't mean those who go from semi-western (or western) to eastern is not progressing -- which is what you questioned. Progressing merely involves improving your skills and your outcomes. If someone goes from western to eastern and gets better results -- they are progressing. If someone goes from eastern to western and gets better results, they also are progressing.
 

dimkin

Hall of Fame
#38
That doesn't mean those who go from semi-western (or western) to eastern is not progressing -- which is what you questioned. Progressing merely involves improving your skills and your outcomes. If someone goes from western to eastern and gets better results -- they are progressing. If someone goes from eastern to western and gets better results, they also are progressing.
Agreed 100%. It's the improvement that matters, fwiw modified eastern and semiwestern are pretty much the same technique-wise. FW is different.
Also FW exposes you to geometrically bad points, that you actually start feeling at 4.0+:
It's is easier with fw to hit down the line, and much more difficult cc.
At 3.5-4.0 it's great - think of it - tons of top spin into someone's meek backhand - sweet.
Facing someone up a level it puts you at a disadvantage - the can take the bal earlier and send it cc.
 
#39
Agreed 100%. It's the improvement that matters, fwiw modified eastern and semiwestern are pretty much the same technique-wise. FW is different.
Also FW exposes you to geometrically bad points, that you actually start feeling at 4.0+:
It's is easier with fw to hit down the line, and much more difficult cc.
At 3.5-4.0 it's great - think of it - tons of top spin into someone's meek backhand - sweet.
Facing someone up a level it puts you at a disadvantage - the can take the bal earlier and send it cc.
Really well what about pro players that use a western grip? Are they at a disadvantage also?
 

dimkin

Hall of Fame
#40
Really well what about pro players that use a western grip? Are they at a disadvantage also?
Not what I was trying to say - I think they do quite well (Novak including), but notice what Kei does on his forehand:

a) Despite the open stance he turns his body, a lot.
b) His RH trajectory is a lot more round/fwd up, generating a lot more fwd momentum.
c) Also notice where his elbow is - tucked in, almost fwd. I think that's key to a great western fh.


In reality fw is certainly more stressful on the body I found, (as is 2hbh, but I am afraid I am stuck with this one)


Another, possibly best western forehand in the game (Nadal's doesn't count as his is straight arm)

 
Last edited:
#41
Not what I was trying to say - I think they do quite well (Novak including), but notice what Kei does on his forehand:

a) Despite the open stance he turns his body, a lot.
b) His RH trajectory is a lot more round/fwd up, generating a lot more fwd momentum.

In reality fw is certainly more stressful on the body I found, (as is 2hbh, but I am afraid I am stuck with this one)

If u want to see how they really hit the ball you need to watch match video, warm ups are not the way they hit the ball in matches.
 

dimkin

Hall of Fame
#42

I don't see it any different - they are in much tougher situations most of the time, many coaches specifically say to not look at match play for technique tips, as the pros tend to do things only they can do with their athleticism. Instead what weekend warriors like ourselves should be looking at the practice footage.
 
#43

I don't see it any different - they are in much tougher situations most of the time, many coaches specifically say to not look at match play for technique tips, as the pros tend to do things only they can do with their athleticism. Instead what weekend warriors like ourselves should be looking at the practice footage.
Okay well if you can't see much difference then.
 

oble

Hall of Fame
#44
Okay well if you can't see much difference then.
I believe what dimkin was getting at is the fundamentals remain the same. Kei and other pros will always either step in or rotate into the shot and ensure that the racquet extends through the contact to put weight into the shot, regardless of how they are reacting to the ball.
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
#45
I agree with @dimkin that the FW forehand is more stressful on the body. I got several physical issues while using that kind of forehand, which essentially made me go to a modern eastern straight arm forehand. I haven't had problems relating to the forehand since, and I actually find that the easier racquet head speed lets me do more with the ball, which is advantageous for me at only 5'7".
 

jga111

Hall of Fame
#47
There is no fundamental difference in the way pros play in warmup vs. matches.
Maybe. But just watch Djokovic when he warms up. Everything is different from his foot stance to his swing path. Casual. People however often use his practice sessions as a paragon for form - that would be bad. He never plays like that in matches but I guess the warm up gives a sneak preview.

Nadal on the other hand? He pretty much practices as he plays! Intense.
 
#48
Maybe. But just watch Djokovic when he warms up. Everything is different from his foot stance
There is no fundamental difference in the way pros play in warmup vs. matches.
The fundamentals may be the same but there is a difference in the way they hit the ball. If you watch warm ups or practice vs match play swings there is a difference. Watch Rafa in practice he is ripping his shots with more pace and a flatter trajectory with more ww finishes, but in a match he goes to more reverse forehands and does not hit near as flat.

I have noticed this with other pro players their warmup swings look different than when they are playing points. If you watch both you can see that once under pressure playing points there is a difference.
 
#49
The fundamentals may be the same but there is a difference in the way they hit the ball. If you watch warm ups or practice vs match play swings there is a difference. Watch Rafa in practice he is ripping his shots with more pace and a flatter trajectory with more ww finishes, but in a match he goes to more reverse forehands and does not hit near as flat.

I have noticed this with other pro players their warmup swings look different than when they are playing points. If you watch both you can see that once under pressure playing points there is a difference.
Ok if you say so. But you are wrong. They choose to hit safer shots in matches most times but the form is the same. Nevertheless they don't moonball like you do. They all hit with severe pace and spin no matter the shot. Not anywhere near the height of your balls.
 

Alien

Hall of Fame
#50
Dont know about efficiency but actually your 2hbackhand is your best looking shot, it seems way more natural and somehow relaxed. Keep working at it, you seem to be on the good path.
 
Top