Rank Big3's Slam final/semifinal opponents

[Lew II]

DJOKOVIC's Slam final/semifinal opponents:

Federer x16
Nadal x13
Murray x9
Wawrinka x4
Thiem, Ferrer x3
Tsonga, Nishikori, Del Potro x2
Berdych, Bautista Agut, Anderson, Cilic, Pouille, Monfils, Gasquet, Dimitrov, Gulbis x1

Average Slam titles won by his opponents: 9.7
Average Slam finals reached by his opponents: 15.7

NADAL's Slam final/semifinal opponents:

Federer x14
Djokovic x13
Murray x6
Del Potro x4
Thiem x3
Ferrer, Wawrinka x2
Verdasco, Tsonga, Berrettini, Tsitsipas, Medvedev, Anderson, Gasquet, Dimitrov, Melzer, Soderling, Berdych, Youzhny, Baghdatis, Puerta, Ljubicic, Schuettler x1

Average Slam titles won by his opponents: 8.8
Average Slam finals reached by his opponents: 14.6

FEDERER's Slam final/semifinal opponents:

Djokovic x16
Nadal x14
Roddick x7
Murray x5
Hewitt, Safin, Cilic, Davydenko x3
Wawrinka, Del Potro, Raonic x2
Soderling, Berdych, Nalbandian, Henman, Chung, Haas, Tsonga, Bjorkman, Gonzalez, Gasquet, Agassi, Monfils, Grosjean, Ferrero, Kiefer, Baghdatis, Philippoussis x1

Average Slam titles won by his opponents: 7.7
Average Slam finals reached by his opponents: 12.4

 

[weakera]

Id say Nadal had the toughest. I have no respect for Murray or Roddick as threats to the b3.

 

[Lew II]

Id say Nadal had the toughest. I have no respect for Murray or Roddick as threats to the b3.

Nadal played more finals against Big3 (17 > 12) but Djokovic played way more semis (17 > 10).

 

[ND-13]

Nadal played more finals against Big3 (17 > 12) but Djokovic played way more semis (17 > 10).

Finals is the more important match

Given the huge gap in talent , it is a known fact that Roger and Novak, sleep their way into finals without much effort . Finals is the test of whether the player carried enough form in the tournament .

 

[Deleted member 748597]

Great thread.

 

[Lew II]

Federer until 2007 AO

Roddick x5
Nadal, Hewitt x3
Safin x2
Agassi, Baghdatis, Philippoussis, Davydenko, Nalbandian, Bjorkman, Gonzalez, Kiefer, Henman, Grosjean, Ferrero x1

Average Slam titles won: 3.4
Average Slam finals reached: 6.2

Djokovic until 2012 WI

Federer x10
Nadal x8
Murray x2
Ferrer, Tsonga x1

Average Slam titles won: 14.9
Average Slam finals reached: 22.9

 

[Third Serve]

Going by name alone, it’s Djokovic. By form, I don’t know.

 

[Lew II]

Going by name alone, it’s Djokovic. By form, I don’t know.

Big4 are 8-0 in Slam finals against 1 time finalists, and 20-1 against <4 time finalists.

The name matters. These players were in good enough form to reach a Slam final, so probably their best form, but it was not enough to beat Big4.

 

[Villain]

What it tells us?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[Third Serve]

Big4 are 8-0 in Slam finals against 1 time finalists, and 20-1 against <4 time finalists.

The name matters. These players were in good enough form to reach a Slam final, so probably their best form, but it was not enough to beat Big4.

This whole “good enough to reach a Slam final” argument frankly isn’t enough because not all finals are created equal. When discussing the Big 3, players who have all reached over 20 Slam finals, they’re going to have some bad and some good finals. And we do see that. For example, Federer’s performance in the RG 2008 final was very lackluster but his performance in the RG 2009 final was brilliant (though 2008 Nadal still could have beaten him). Nadal’s performance in the AO 2009 and 2012 finals were also incredible, but his performance in the AO 2019 final was completely listless. The “eye test” is what I primarily use to weigh the quality of a match (as a matter of fact, it might be the only way), but if you aren’t satisfied, you have match statistics out there. I won’t say they’re perfect, but they’re far more reliable in weighing a player’s level on a certain day because they only pertain to the specific match in question.

 

[Mainad]

Id say Nadal had the toughest. I have no respect for Murray or Roddick as threats to the b3.

Yawn.....oh yeah because Murray has only beaten all 3 of them in Slams at some point and 1 of them in TWO finals!

 

[Hitman]

Djokovic

 

[RS]

All are about even give or take something. What hurts Fed is he has the least wins of the 3 vs the strongest oppenents though but was stopped by a lot of in-form oppenents in loses.

 

[TripleATeam]

Id say Nadal had the toughest. I have no respect for Murray or Roddick as threats to the b3.

Even so, you wouldn't rank the 16 Federers and 13 Nadals over 14 Federers and 13 Djokovics?

 

[SonnyT]

Id say Nadal had the toughest. I have no respect for Murray or Roddick as threats to the b3.

Murray won 2 memorable Slam finals against Djokovic, and 1 SF against Federer. How many did Roddick win against Federer?

In fact, since 2011, Slam finals won against Djokovic:
Federer - 0, as in none
Nadal - 1 outside of RG
Murray, Wawrinka - 2

 

[StrongRule]

Even so, you wouldn't rank the 16 Federers and 13 Nadals over 14 Federers and 13 Djokovics?

The difference is that Nadal had to face them when they were in their primes. I don't think Federer in AO 2009 final and Federer in AO 2020 semifinal is the same opponent.

 

[SonnyT]

Up to 2020, Federer was still formidable. After all, he pretty much owned Nadal in '15-19!

 

[StrongRule]

Up to 2020, Federer was still formidable. After all, he pretty much owned Nadal in '15-19!

I really wonder how did he own Nadal in 2015-2016 and 2018-2019 when their head to head during these years was just 2-1 with one of these matches being a close match in Basel.

 

[Crazy Finn]

As usual Lew's stats skew the reality a bit to suit his agenda.

Federer's opponents early in his career have fewer slam wins, because Federer won almost all of the slams early in his career. Thus, they are rated lower by this metric. So, basically, Federer is penalized for being extremely successful in his prime.

On the flip side, Djokovic is boosted by his wins over Federer and Nadal later on, because Federer had already accumulated a high number of slams before they even started meeting in SF or Finals as did Rafa at some point, skewing Novak's score higher.

 

[Lew II]

As usual Lew's stats skew the reality a bit to suit his agenda.

Federer's opponents early in his career have fewer slam wins, because Federer won almost all of the slams early in his career. Thus, they are rated lower by this metric. So, basically, Federer is penalized for being extremely successful in his prime.

On the flip side, Djokovic is boosted by his wins over Federer and Nadal later on, because Federer had already accumulated a high number of slams before they even started meeting in SF or Finals as did Rafa at some point, skewing Novak's score higher.

I also posted the number of Slam finals reached.

 

[SonnyT]

I really wonder how did he own Nadal in 2015-2016 and 2018-2019 when their head to head during these years was just 2-1 with one of these matches being a close match in Basel.

No need to separate the years in which he has 6-1 record over his pet.

 

[StrongRule]

No need to separate the years in which he has 6-1 record over his pet.

So we can say Roddick owned Djokovic in 2009-2020? A 4-2 record after all, including 1-0 in slams. Who cares that most of them were in 2009, right?

 

[SonnyT]

People are desperate when they have to bring up Roddick in the GOAT discussion! I'm not desperate and grasping at straws, like Rafans!

 

[Lew II]

So we can say Roddick owned Djokovic in 2009-2020? A 4-2 record after all, including 1-0 in slams. Who cares that most of them were in 2009, right?

Nadal was #1 of 2017 (0-4 vs Federer) and 2019 (1-1 vs Federer).

The other loss was during the 2015 indoor season when Nadal did not play bad, scoring 5 wins over top10s.

 

[Third Serve]

Nadal was #1 of 2017 (0-4 vs Federer) and 2019 (1-1 vs Federer).

The other loss was during the 2015 indoor season when Nadal did not play bad, scoring 5 wins over top10s.

Yeah, despite Nadal’s awful 2015 year up to that point, his indoor season was one of his better ones.

 

[Backspin1183]

Has to be either Nadal > Federer > Djokovic or Federer > Nadal > Djokovic.

 

[Yugram]

Nadal > Djokovic > Federer