Rank the 2-Slam Champions (Open Era)

[BGod]

In order of their last victories:


Stan Smith: 71 USO, 72 Wimbledon
Ilie Năstase: 72 USO, 73 French
Johan Kriek: 81-82 Australia
Sergi Bruguera: 93-94 French
Yevgeny Kafelnikov: 96 FO, 99 Australia
Patrick Rafter: 97-98 U.S. Open
Lleyton Hewitt: 01 USO, 02 Wimbledon
Marat Safin: 00 USO, 05 Australia
Andy Murray: 12 USO, 13 Wimbledon
Stanislas Wawrinka: 14 AO, 15 French


I'm going to just throw this out about Johan Kriek before he gets dumped on like usual:

He did not compete at the French in his prime. He made the semifinals in 86 beating Vilas in the quarters.
Made the 1980 U.S. Open semifinals losing in 5 sets to Borg (was up 2-0)
In the 84 Aussie Open, he would make the semifinals beating Pat Cash and losing to Wilander.


*I didn't bother adding Kriek, Kafelnikov or Bruguera to the poll as that would be pointless. No offense intended. These three guys have been pondered for the Hall of Fame yet are still waiting and regardless if they get inducted they're by everyone's measure on the bottom run. Fair or not, nobody here is picking them in their Top 3 out of 10 guys. So I simply made the poll out of the 7 guys who get talked about. Not that I necessarily think Wawrinka is above a guy like Bruguera but I know due to him presently playing he might get a vote or two. Otherwise it's a 6 man race, even if Safin never gets in the Hall he's always going to have his fans, especially here.*

 

[bluetrain4]

Brugera, Rafter?

 

[The_18th_Slam]

1. Nastase
2. Murray
3. Hewitt
4. Safin
5. Rafter

I didn't initially notice Nastase and voted wrong in the poll.

 

[NatF]

1. Nastase
2. Hewitt
3. Murray
4. Safin
5. Smith

 

[BGod]

1. Nastase
2. Hewitt
3. Murray
4. Safin
5. Smith

Your opinion, no issue.

Just curious how you put Smith & Safin ahead of Rafter?

Patrick was a late bloomer but from 97-01 he was better than those two as far as peak and consistency on the big stage.

 

[HipRotation]

Poor Nastase never did win that Wimbledon.

 

[dlk]

If we broke tie with singles' titles:
Nastasie 58
Smith 39
Murray 35
Hewitt 30
Safin 15
Rafter 11
Wawrinka 10,

I, off the cuff, prematurely chose Murray, Safin, & Wawrinka.

 

[NatF]

Your opinion, no issue.

Just curious how you put Smith & Safin ahead of Rafter?

Patrick was a late bloomer but from 97-01 he was better than those two as far as peak and consistency on the big stage.

Safin had more impressive wins, won more big titles. His peak was higher as well. Stan Smith won 39 titles where as Rafter won just 11. Huge difference.

 

[BGod]

Safin had more impressive wins, won more big titles. His peak was higher as well. Stan Smith won 39 titles where as Rafter won just 11. Huge difference.

A brief overview of Smith's titles see inconsistent opponents, and an over the hill Laver. Plus it was the early 70s.

Rafter's titles haul seems meager but he completed the USO triple crown in 98 again pretty good players and was phenomenal at Wimbledon from 00-01 despite not winning either time. Safin's career has a black hole in it between his two Slams. He has the claim to fame victories but so does Rafter. Back to back 5 set victories against Agassi on grass, come back against Sampras at USO, etc.

 

[NatF]

A brief overview of Smith's titles see inconsistent opponents, and an over the hill Laver. Plus it was the early 70s.

Rafter's titles haul seems meager but he completed the USO triple crown in 98 again pretty good players and was phenomenal at Wimbledon from 00-01 despite not winning either time. Safin's career has a black hole in it between his two Slams. He has the claim to fame victories but so does Rafter. Back to back 5 set victories against Agassi on grass, come back against Sampras at USO, etc.

11 titles is just poor, winning 3 big ones in a row is impressive no doubt but it hardly makes up for the disparity between him and Smith. When Safin has won more masters anyway the debate is over on that front IMO. Safin's career was marred by injuries - even more than Rafter's. Safin destroyed Sampras at the USO and beat peak Federer and Hewitt back to back to win his AO title. To make the AO final in 2004 Safin went through Roddick (then #1) and defending champ Agassi despite having barely played at all in 2003. Going through Agassi at the AO even in 2004 is more impressive than beating him at Wimbledon.

 

[BGod]

When Safin has won more masters anyway the debate is over on that front IMO.

Going through Agassi at the AO even in 2004 is more impressive than beating him at Wimbledon.

1. Safin has 8-6 Finals and 5-2 titles yes. However context is needed. 3 of his titles came at Paris, by far the weakest Masters event, especially then. He's also got one in Madrid and his strongest is Canada where he never made another big run or in Cincinnati. Rafter on the other hand has the back to back wins at those events and made two more finals at Cincinnati and one more in Canada. He really only competed at 4 of the Masters tournaments consistently, routinely skipping Paris. So I don't think Safin's Paris titles are all that much to write home about, I'd call his Masters career about event with Rafter. So we move to the Slams where both guys are 2-2 but the difference between Safin crapped the bed against Johansson and got drilled by Federer in his 2nd Slam Final. Rafter on the other hand lost close 4 setter to a grass legend in Sampras and then a 5 set epic 7-9 to Ivanisevic. Further more look at that last season of his when he was hampered by injury. He played in 8 of the big tournaments, making 3 Finals, 2 Semifinals and a Quarter. The French Open is his only blemish and the 4th Round exit at Flushing Meadows was in 4 to Sampras.

I voted Murray/Hewitt/Rafter. They were all world #1s, they all had tremendous peaks and showed some consistency if even briefly (in Rafter's case).

 

[NatF]

1. Safin has 8-6 Finals and 5-2 titles yes. However context is needed. 3 of his titles came at Paris, by far the weakest Masters event, especially then. He's also got one in Madrid and his strongest is Canada where he never made another big run or in Cincinnati. Rafter on the other hand has the back to back wins at those events and made two more finals at Cincinnati and one more in Canada. He really only competed at 4 of the Masters tournaments consistently, routinely skipping Paris. So I don't think Safin's Paris titles are all that much to write home about, I'd call his Masters career about event with Rafter. So we move to the Slams where both guys are 2-2 but the difference between Safin crapped the bed against Johansson and got drilled by Federer in his 2nd Slam Final. Rafter on the other hand lost close 4 setter to a grass legend in Sampras and then a 5 set epic 7-9 to Ivanisevic. Further more look at that last season of his when he was hampered by injury. He played in 8 of the big tournaments, making 3 Finals, 2 Semifinals and a Quarter. The French Open is his only blemish and the 4th Round exit at Flushing Meadows was in 4 to Sampras.

I voted Murray/Hewitt/Rafter. They were all world #1s, they all had tremendous peaks and showed some consistency if even briefly (in Rafter's case).

There's no way you can sell 2 being even with 5 In 04 Safin beat Hewitt, Agassi and Nalbandian in those Madrid/Paris runs, he also beat Hewitt again in 2002. These guys are not slouches indoors as all have won the YEC.

Safin went through a brutal draw in 2004 to get to that AO final, no excuses for 2002 but in the end they have the same number of slams. Edge to Rafter for the losing finals efforts but clearly Safin's wins were more impressive - Rafter's 1997 USO wasn't particularly impressive and even in 1998 it pales in comparison to the 2005 AO.

 

[THE FIGHTER]

I voted Murray/Hewitt/Rafter. They were all world #1s, they all had tremendous peaks and showed some consistency if even briefly (in Rafter's case).

I'd hate to live in a world where Murray was ever world No. 1.

 

[zvelf]

1. Ilie Nastase
2. Stan Smith
3. Lleyton Hewitt
4. Andy Murray (so far)
5. Yevgeny Kafelnikov
6. Sergei Bruguera
7. Patrick Rafter
8. Marat Safin
9. Stanislas Wawrinka
10. Johan Kriek

 

[ibbi]

I think Nastase is number 1, and after that it's tough...

2. Safin
3. Murray
4. Wawrinka
5. Rafter
6. Hewitt
7. Smith
8. Kafelnikov
9. Bruguera
10. Kriek

Honestly, I don't think there's THAT much separating numbers 2 through 7, and you could almost totally swap the order around depending on the day.