Rank the 4 time slam winners in Open Era- both men and women

[bobcolbert]

OK given the context of the era I overstated it (for today it would easily be termed that, but not for back then). I would say somewhat depleted then. I still give him full credit for that victory mind you, but definitely not the 2 Australians, particularly given a realistic assessment of his grass skills as evidenced by all his performances at Wimbledon.

The fact is that australian grass and england grass were very different. On australian grass, Vilas beat players he can't beat in Wimbledon. Same thing for Wilander.I remember that McEnroe said after his defeat against Wilander in Australia : "I understand now how Vilas could win twice here".

 

[flyingforehands]

The fact is that australian grass and england grass were very different. On australian grass, Vilas beat players he can't beat in Wimbledon. Same thing for Wilander.I remember that McEnroe said after his defeat against Wilander in Australia : "I understand now how Vilas could win twice here".

Wilander actually won in a real slam field though, something Vilas never did on grass. The Australian Open was still a bit depleted in the early 80s but it still had most of the top players and were legit slam fields. The late 70s, both men and women, LOL! Remember Vilas's Australian Open titles came in the same period that Barbara Jordan and Chris O Neill won Australian Opens. Nuff said.

 

[bobcolbert]

Wilander actually won in a real slam field though, something Vilas never did on grass. The Australian Open was still a bit depleted in the early 80s but it still had most of the top players and were legit slam fields. The late 70s, both men and women, LOL! Remember Vilas's Australian Open titles came in the same period that Barbara Jordan and Chris O Neill won Australian Opens. Nuff said.

In Australia, Vilas beat Borg, Newcombe, Ramirez, Nastase, Roche, Dent, Lewis (Wimbledon finalist) ... I think it's not bad.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

In Australia, Vilas beat Borg, Newcombe, Ramirez, Nastase, Roche, Dent, Lewis (Wimbledon finalist) ... I think it's not bad.

Well you are talking three different tournaments here and for a YEC and two slams combined, if those are the biggest scalps, it is not really impressive.

 

[flyingforehands]

In Australia, Vilas beat Borg, Newcombe, Ramirez, Nastase, Roche, Dent, Lewis (Wimbledon finalist) ... I think it's not bad.

I am not questioning the quality of his WC title which I agreed was an impressive win, so don't mix those in with the 2 Australian Opens. Who did he beat for the 2 Australian Opens only? Who was even in the draw? Yeah exactly.

 

[Mustard]

The fact is that australian grass and england grass were very different. On australian grass, Vilas beat players he can't beat in Wimbledon. Same thing for Wilander.I remember that McEnroe said after his defeat against Wilander in Australia : "I understand now how Vilas could win twice here".

If you watch Australian Open matches at that time, you can see that the grass was very similar to today's Wimbledon grass on hot days, but considerably different to the Wimbledon grass of the 1980s. Wimbledon grass at the time tended to cause the ball to die fast, not bounce up well for good rallies.

 

[Mustard]

I am not questioning the quality of his WC title which I agreed was an impressive win, so don't mix those in with the 2 Australian Opens. Who did he beat for the 2 Australian Opens only? Who was even in the draw? Yeah exactly.

Guillermo Vilas at the 1978 Australian Open beat Terry Rocavert, Brad Drewett, Allan Stone, Tony Roche, Hank Pfister and John Marks.

Guillermo Vilas at the 1979 Australian Open beat Chris Lewis, Alvin Gardiner, Peter McNamara, Phil Dent, Victor Amaya and John Sadri.

 

[BTURNER]

The fact is that australian grass and england grass were very different. On australian grass, Vilas beat players he can't beat in Wimbledon. Same thing for Wilander.I remember that McEnroe said after his defeat against Wilander in Australia : "I understand now how Vilas could win twice here".

Its not just the grass. Its the combination of the grass and the weather together. Australia was hot, dry . Commentator Billie Jean used to predict Hana's success at Wimbledon, based on how dry the conditions were going to be. Hana liked the ball to bounce up more, and she tended to have problems if the grass was slick because her footing was not so sure ( I swear Mandlikova fell at least once every time she played a match on grass). Margaret at 5'9", did much better on Aussie grass, because she did not have to bend down as low to it for half volleys etc, while Billie Jean at little more than 5', had less of a problem staying low to the ball on soggy lawn. Evert was more comfortable Down Under because her passing shots depended on the ball coming through into her strike zone. Dry conditions suited her better.

 

[bobcolbert]

Guillermo Vilas at the 1978 Australian Open beat Terry Rocavert, Brad Drewett, Allan Stone, Tony Roche, Hank Pfister and John Marks.

Guillermo Vilas at the 1979 Australian Open beat Chris Lewis, Alvin Gardiner, Peter McNamara, Phil Dent, Victor Amaya and John Sadri.

Not top players, that's true, but very good grass players : Roche (Grand slam winner), Lewis (Wimbledon finalist), Dent (AO finalist, FO semi-finalist), Amaya (almost beat Borg in Wimbledon), McNamara (top 10 several years) ... And in 1978 Marks beat Ashe in SF, after saving a match point.