Rank the best players who never won Roland Garros in the 2000s

[junkieballer]

Rank these players from best to worst at Roland Garros only (including Olympics), no other clay tournaments, and/or vote who is the best:

2018-25 ZVEREV

lost to Thiem in the 2018 quaterfinal
lost to Sinner in the 2020 R16
lost to Tstitsipas in the 2021 semifinal
lost to Nadal in the 2022 semifinal
lost to Ruud in the 2023 semifinal
lost to Alcaraz in the 2024 final
lost to Musetti in the 2024 Olympics quarterfinal
lost to Djokovic in the 2019 quarterfinal and 2025 quaterfinal

1 final, 3 semifinal, 4 quarterfinals, 1 R16
1/9 loss to Nadal
5/9 losses to ATGs

2022-24 RUUD

lost to Nadal in the 2022 final
lost to Djokovic in the 2023 final
lost to Zverev in the 2024 semifinal

2 finals, 1 semifinal
1/3 loss to Nadal
2/3 losses to ATGs

2020-24 TSITSIPAS

lost to Djokovic in the 2020 semifinal, the 2021 final and the 2024 Olympics quartefinal.
lost to Rune in 2022 R16.
lost to Alcaraz in 2023 and 2024 quarterfinal.

1 final, 1 semifinal, 3 quarterfinals, 1 R16
5/6 losses to ATGs

2016-19 THIEM

lost to Djokovic in the 2016 semifinal
lost to Nadal in the 2017 semifinal and the 2018 and 2019 finals.

2 finals, 2 semifinals
3/4 losses to Nadal
4/4 losses to ATGs

2011-17 Murray

lost to Nadal in the 2011 semifinal and the 2014 semifinal
lost to Ferrer in the 2012 quarterfinal
lost to Djokovic in the 2015 semifinal and the 2016 final
lost to Wawrinka in the 2017 semifinal

1 final, 4 semifinals, 1 quarterfinal
2/6 losses to Nadal
4/6 losses to ATGs
5/6 losses to clay ATGs

2012-15 FERRER

lost to Nadal in the 2012 semifinal, 2013 final and 2014 quarterfinal
lost to Murray in the 2015 quarterfinal

1 final, 1 semifinal, 2 quarterfinal
3/4 losses to Nadal
4/4 losses to ATGs

2009-11 Soderling

lost to Federer in the 2009 final
lost to Nadal in the 2010 final and 2011 quarterfinal

2 finals, 1 quarterfinals
2/3 losses to Nadal
3/3 losses to ATGs

 

[junkieballer]

I think:

1) 11-17 Murray (for the longer prime)
2) 16-19 Thiem (for the two finals vs Nadal)
3) 09-11 Soderling (because he beat Nadal)
4) 18-25 Zverev (long prime but not many high level wins)
5) 12-15 Ferrer (3 losses to Nadal)
6) 20-24 Tsitsipas (never faced Nadal)
7) 22-24 Ruud (shortest prime)

 

[Jonas78]

1) Murray
2) Soderling
3) Ferrer
4) Thiem (cant escape the fact that he didnt even win a clay masters)
5) Tsitsipas

I think...

 

[Nappa]

Murray
Ferrer
Thiem
Tsisipas
Soderling

 

[junior74]

3 finals > 1 final

Edit. Typo. 2 > 1

 

[junkieballer]

3 finals > 1 final

none of them has 3 finals

 

[junior74]

none of them has 3 finals

Ruud has 2, and I think he is a better RG player than Steffi.

 

[Jonas78]

Ruud does, and I think he is a better RG player than Steffi.

Steph/Thiem is also interesting. Its 3 clay masters to zero.

 

[Jonas78]

Thiem - the prince of clay that didnt even win a clay masters

 

[junkieballer]

Ruud does, and I think he is a better RG player than Steffi.

Ruud has 2

 

[junkieballer]

I added Ruud

 

[junior74]

Ruud has 2

Yeah, typo, sorry.

2 > 1

That's 100% more finals

 

[tennis_pro]

Overall level or clay level or level at the FO?

Anyway, based on what I saw it's a toss-up between Soderling and Thiem.

 

[junkieballer]

Overall level or clay level or level at the FO?

Anyway, based on what I saw it's a toss-up between Soderling and Thiem.

only Roland Garros, including Olympics

 

[junkieballer]

I must add Zverev

 

[junkieballer]

wins over top5/10/20:

Thiem 3/3/6
Soderling 2/2/9
Ferrer 1/4/5
Murray 1/3/8
Tstisipas 1/2/6
Zverev 0/2/6
Ruud 0/1/3

 

[Jonas78]

wins over top5/10/20:

Thiem 3/3/6
Soderling 2/2/9
Ferrer 1/4/5
Murray 1/3/8
Tstisipas 1/2/6
Zverev 0/2/6
Ruud 0/1/3

Timmy was lucky with when he met Djokovic.

 

[junior74]

Is beating top 5/10/20 more important than winning slams/ making finals?

Perhaps in a parallell universe.

 

[junkieballer]

Timmy was lucky with when he met Djokovic.

only 2017.
2016 and 2019 was good form.

 

[Jonas78]

only 2017.
2016 and 2019 was good form.

Was 19 the extremely sh1tty conditions?

 

[junkieballer]

Was 19 the extremely sh1tty conditions?

Wind was for both

 

[RS]

Hewitt.

 

[junkieballer]

I think 2021 Tsitsi played the best final among them, while 2009 Soderling played the best tournament among them.

 

[junior74]

I think 2021 Tsitsi played the best final among them, while 2009 Soderling played the best tournament among them.

The Toilet Break Open 2021

 

[TennisGrandpA]

Why Sinner is not in the list??

 

[junkieballer]

Why Sinner is not in the list??

Only 1 final and 1 semi, worse than any on the list.

 

[McLovin]

I'm going w/ Borg. He's clearly "the best player who never won Roland Garros in the 2000s"...

 

[TennisGrandpA]

Only 1 final and 1 semi, worse than any on the list.

Level wise he’s the best finalist

 

[NYTennisfan]

Only 1 final and 1 semi, worse than any on the list.

Sinner is miles better than any player on this list even on clay although peak Thiem and Murray could give him a bit of a tussle on this surface. Well, 2009 Soderling too obviously.

 

[serbiavic]

Sinner is miles better than any player on this list even on clay although peak Thiem and Murray could give him a bit of a tussle on this surface. Well, 2009 Soderling too obviously.

While Sinner only won 1 clay title in his career, and he definitely will win more barring injury, peak levels between Sinner and the others would be a fascinating discussion. 2025 Sinner possibly played the best final of all of them.

 

[junkieballer]

1) Murray
2) Soderling
3) Ferrer
4) Thiem (cant escape the fact that he didnt even win a clay masters)
5) Tsitsipas

I think...

This is RG only.

Soderling and Ferrer did not win a Masters either but you put them ahead.

 

[nam416]

When I read the title, I thought of the guy who is not even on the list - Coria. Prolly better than most listed. Why is he not on the list?

 

[clp34vmp]

Coria was unquestionably the best clay player in the world briefly before the rise of Rafa but completely gave away the RG title that should have been his to Gaudio.

 

[junkieballer]

When I read the title, I thought of the guy who is not even on the list - Coria. Prolly better than most listed. Why is he not on the list?

Because this is RG only and he was not so great there, losing to Verkerk, Gaudio and Davydenko in his prime.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Overall level or clay level or level at the FO?

Anyway, based on what I saw it's a toss-up between Soderling and Thiem.

Exactly. Soderling and Thiem CLEAR

 

[RS]

I think 2021 Tsitsi played the best final among them, while 2009 Soderling played the best tournament among them.

First time I have seen you use the eye test

 

[Aabye5]

Rank these players from best to worst at Roland Garros only (including Olympics), no other clay tournaments, and/or vote who is the best:

2018-25 ZVEREV

lost to Thiem in the 2018 quaterfinal
lost to Sinner in the 2020 R16
lost to Tstitsipas in the 2021 semifinal
lost to Nadal in the 2022 semifinal
lost to Ruud in the 2023 semifinal
lost to Alcaraz in the 2024 final
lost to Musetti in the 2024 Olympics quarterfinal
lost to Djokovic in the 2019 quarterfinal and 2025 quaterfinal

1 final, 3 semifinal, 4 quarterfinals, 1 R16
1/9 loss to Nadal
5/9 losses to ATGs

2022-24 RUUD

lost to Nadal in the 2022 final
lost to Djokovic in the 2023 final
lost to Zverev in the 2024 semifinal

2 finals, 1 semifinal
1/3 loss to Nadal
2/3 losses to ATGs

2020-24 TSITSIPAS

lost to Djokovic in the 2020 semifinal, the 2021 final and the 2024 Olympics quartefinal.
lost to Rune in 2022 R16.
lost to Alcaraz in 2023 and 2024 quarterfinal.

1 final, 1 semifinal, 3 quarterfinals, 1 R16
5/6 losses to ATGs

2016-19 THIEM

lost to Djokovic in the 2016 semifinal
lost to Nadal in the 2017 semifinal and the 2018 and 2019 finals.

2 finals, 2 semifinals
3/4 losses to Nadal
4/4 losses to ATGs

2011-17 Murray

lost to Nadal in the 2011 semifinal and the 2014 semifinal
lost to Ferrer in the 2012 quarterfinal
lost to Djokovic in the 2015 semifinal and the 2016 final
lost to Wawrinka in the 2017 semifinal

1 final, 4 semifinals, 1 quarterfinal
2/6 losses to Nadal
4/6 losses to ATGs
5/6 losses to clay ATGs

2012-15 FERRER

lost to Nadal in the 2012 semifinal, 2013 final and 2014 quarterfinal
lost to Murray in the 2015 quarterfinal

1 final, 1 semifinal, 2 quarterfinal
3/4 losses to Nadal
4/4 losses to ATGs

2009-11 Soderling

lost to Federer in the 2009 final
lost to Nadal in the 2010 final and 2011 quarterfinal

2 finals, 1 quarterfinals
2/3 losses to Nadal
3/3 losses to ATGs

Best on clay, or best in general? Not sure whether I would rank Murray over Thiem on clay, specifically.

 

[Jonas78]

Wind was for both

Sure, i just remember it was pretty bad.

 

[junior74]

Best on clay, or best in general? Not sure whether I would rank Murray over Thiem on clay, specifically.

I automatically interpreted it as the best RG player who didn't win RG.

 

[MHI]

I’m glad the poll voters are correct by a huge margin (Soderling).

No idea why the commenters are going mad.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

I would have to go with Sod. Beating peak Nadal and very strong defending champion Federer but not winning the FO is a tragedy. Also, if his unexpected immediate retirement did not happen he would have had some more chances I think.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

Soderling.

But Coria is certainly better than most on the list.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

It is pretty easy. Sod has two finals, nobody has more and only Thiem and Ruud have the same number. Sod however beat the way tougher competition to reach those finals, so the best RG player who did not win out of those mentioned is clearly him.

 

[junkieballer]

But Coria is certainly better than most on the list.

1 final, 1 semi and 0 quartefinals is worse than any on the list.

 

[junkieballer]

It is pretty easy. Sod has two finals, nobody has more and only Thiem and Ruud have the same number. Sod however beat the way tougher competition to reach those finals, so the best RG player who did not win out of those mentioned is clearly him.

2018-25 Zverev and 2009-17 Murray had the longest clay primes though.

When you look at their losses they never lost to a bad player:

2018-25 ZVEREV

Nadal
Djokovic
Alcaraz
Sinner
Thiem
Ruud
Tsitsipas
Musetti

2009-17 MURRAY:

Nadal
Djokovic
Wawrinka
Ferrer
Berdych
Gonzalez

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

2018-25 Zverev and 2009-17 Murray had the longest clay primes though.

When you look at their losses they never lost to a bad player:

2018-25 ZVEREV

Nadal
Djokovic
Alcaraz
Sinner
Thiem
Ruud
Tsitsipas
Musetti

2009-17 MURRAY:

Nadal
Djokovic
Wawrinka
Ferrer
Berdych
Gonzalez

What do you mean with bad player? Murray's opponents I do not find really impressive tbh. Berdych is not a great clay player and Ferrer and Gonzalez are also meh in the grand scheme of things. Stan and Djoko are of course great but as you say, Murray lost to them so it is moot. Soderling actually BEAT great players at RG without winning the whole things. Zverev's opponents are a little more impressive but also here, what I am missing is the big win from him which will make me believe he deserves a title (and please spare me with the Nadal match in 2022).

 

[junkieballer]

What do you mean with bad player? Murray's opponents I do not find really impressive tbh. Berdych is not a great clay player and Ferrer and Gonzalez are also meh in the grand scheme of things. Stan and Djoko are of course great but as you say, Murray lost to them so it is moot. Soderling actually BEAT great players at RG without winning the whole things. Zverev's opponents are a little more impressive but also here, what I am missing is the big win from him which will make me believe he deserves a title (and please spare me with the Nadal match in 2022).

2018-25 Zverev and 2009-17 Murray lost French Open only to players who have been top5, while Soderling in 2004-11 (similar sample size) lost 4 times to players who have never been top20.

Yes, Soderling has big wins but also short prime, that's why I say they're close.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

What do you mean with bad player? Murray's opponents I do not find really impressive tbh. Berdych is not a great clay player and Ferrer and Gonzalez are also meh in the grand scheme of things. Stan and Djoko are of course great but as you say, Murray lost to them so it is moot. Soderling actually BEAT great players at RG without winning the whole things. Zverev's opponents are a little more impressive but also here, what I am missing is the big win from him which will make me believe he deserves a title (and please spare me with the Nadal match in 2022).

Zverev has a great win over Alcaraz in 2022, but it obviously pales in comparison to being the only player to beat NADAL in TEN years. It's comparable to the Federer win in 2010, and even then, the Federer win in 2010 is probably more impressive because it ended his streak of a gazillion SFs in a row, although Alcaraz will end up with a much better clay/RG career.

1 final, 1 semi and 0 quartefinals is worse than any on the list.

He only had a 3-year peak, so obviously his longevity is poor compared to others, but at his best, he was much better.

He was 3 points away from winning every clay big tournament in only a 3-year span.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

2018-25 Zverev and 2009-17 Murray lost French Open only to players who have been top5, while Soderling in 2004-11 (similar sample size) lost 4 times to players who have never been top20.

Yes, Soderling has big wins but also short prime, that's why I say they're close.

Soderling did what neither Djoko nor Fed could do, this alone deserves more praise than anything Zverev or Murray did. The wins over Fed or to a lesser extent Gonzalez and Berdych are only some icing on the cake.

 

[junkieballer]

Soderling did what neither Djoko nor Fed could do,

Djoko beat Nadal 2 times and in more advanced rounds than Soderling did.

this alone deserves more praise than anything Zverev or Murray did. The wins over Fed or to a lesser extent Gonzalez and Berdych are only some icing on the cake.

Debatable. Some may rate longevity and consistency higher than peak.