Rank the player who have been n°2

Flash O'Groove

Hall of Fame
According to the official ATP ranking, there are 11 of those.

1) Murray
2) Vilas
3) Ashe
4) Orantes
5) Chang
6) Ivanisevic
7) Stich
8) Corretja
9) Haas
10) Korda
11) Norman

What do you think? We don't discuss these players much.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
According to the official ATP ranking, there are 11 of those.

1) Murray
2) Vilas
3) Ashe
4) Orantes
5) Chang
6) Ivanisevic
7) Stich
8) Corretja
9) Haas
10) Korda
11) Norman

What do you think? We don't discuss these players much.
Well in reality both Vilas and Ashe should have spent at least some time at #1. So I would go for Murray at #1 now. I might still go for Murray over Vilas anyway. The rest of the order looks ok except that I would put Chang over Orantes and probably level with Ashe.
 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
Well in reality both Vilas and Ashe should have spent at least some time at #1. So I would go for Murray at #1 now. I might still go for Murray over Vilas anyway. The rest of the order looks ok except that I would put Chang over Orantes and probably level with Ashe.
How is Chang level with Ashe, when the latter won three of the traditional majors, plus the WCT in 1975, and was probably the "true" No 1 player in that same year?
 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
On another note, have there really only been 11 players who have peaked at #2? Seems like such a low number - although I guess the #2 spot is often occupied by a player who reaches #1 at some point.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
How is Chang level with Ashe, when the latter won three of the traditional majors, plus the WCT in 1975, and was probably the "true" No 1 player in that same year?
This is true. I don't consider the 1970 AO a major, but he won the first open USO as well which I forgot. So Ashe above Chang and quite clearly.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
According to the official ATP ranking, there are 11 of those.

1) Murray
2) Vilas
3) Ashe
4) Orantes
5) Chang
6) Ivanisevic
7) Stich
8) Corretja
9) Haas
10) Korda
11) Norman

What do you think? We don't discuss these players much.
Vilas was an excellent player but he didn't have that awesome weapon that could put away shots like a del Potro forehand for example. Excellent passing shots, super stamina and a terrific backhand. His volley was not penetrating. Great backhand overhead.

Ashe, when he was in the zone was unbelievable on a court that he had good footing and he wasn't too bad on clay. Of these guys I believe outside of Goran he had the best serve easily. His backhand imo was also a great weapon along the lines of Murray in this group. I believe he also had the best volley in the group.

Bottom line is that I think Ashe was an immensely gifted player who never reached the heights that his talent suggested. He is one of the few in history that could hurt opponents with serve, volley, backhand and forehand. Unfortunately he often beat himself and didn't play enough percentage tennis. How many players can play at the power level he played against Laver in the first set at the 1969 Wimbledon and how many could turn it around and play the junk ball game that he played against Connors at the 1975 WImbledon final?

I think Murray may be very well the most talented of this whole bunch although all of them are talented. He is along with Chang imo the fastest of all these players with probably the best overall backhand and groundstrokes. He has a very good volley with excellent touch. His first serve is one of the best in this group.

I would rank Murray number one in this bunch. Number two is tough. I would think it's between Ashe and Vilas. According to Vainquers Ashe won at least 71 tournaments in his career while Vilas won 64. Ashe won the Australian, US Open and Wimbledon plus the WCT Championship. Vilas won two weak Australians, the French and the US Open.

It's close but I would go with Ashe as number two with Vilas number three. Basically I would agree with the rest of your list.

Wasn't Borg or Connors number two at one point on the ATP computer?
 
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Navdeep Srivastava

Guest
Korda above Haas and maybe Norman also above Haas. Haas was talented but we should rate players on what they achieved not what they they should have achieved.
Korda winning one grand slam cup is already better than most of the things Haas won.
Edit maybe Chang over orantes.
 
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Navdeep Srivastava

Guest
Korda defeated Sampras and Stich back to back in 5 tough setters.
 
N

Navdeep Srivastava

Guest
1) Murray
2) Ashe
3) Vilas
4) Stich
5) Ivanisevic
6) Chang
7) Orantes
8) Corretja
9) Korda
10) Haas
11) Norman
Great list only change I will make is to have Chang above Goran, Chang was so better on three different slam.
 

timnz

Legend
According to the official ATP ranking, there are 11 of those.

1) Murray
2) Vilas
3) Ashe
4) Orantes
5) Chang
6) Ivanisevic
7) Stich
8) Corretja
9) Haas
10) Korda
11) Norman

What do you think? We don't discuss these players much.
Depends on how you want to rank them. On talent? Or on achievement? Here is my list for both:

On Talent
-------------
1/ Stich
2/ Korda
3/ Murray
4/ Vilas
5/ Chang
6/ Ivanisevic
7/ Haas
8/ Ashe
9/ Orantes
10/ Corretja
11/ Norman

On achievement
--------------------

1/ Murray
2/ Vilas
3/ Ashe
4/ Stich
5/ Chang
6/ Orantes
7/ Ivanisevic
8/ Korda
9/ Corretja
10/ Haas
11/ Norman
 

jean pierre

Professional
According to the official ATP ranking, there are 11 of those.

1) Murray
2) Vilas
3) Ashe
4) Orantes
5) Chang
6) Ivanisevic
7) Stich
8) Corretja
9) Haas
10) Korda
11) Norman

What do you think? We don't discuss these players much.

I think Vilas's results are better than Murray's results. But I think Vilas is not really in this list because the fact is, even if ATP refuses to recognize it, that Vilas was number one a few weeks in 1975-1976 (+ we can add that Vilas was the word champion in 1977). So Vilas was, in fact, number one, and not only number 2.
 

Flash O'Groove

Hall of Fame
I think Vilas's results are better than Murray's results. But I think Vilas is not really in this list because the fact is, even if ATP refuses to recognize it, that Vilas was number one a few weeks in 1975-1976 (+ we can add that Vilas was the word champion in 1977). So Vilas was, in fact, number one, and not only number 2.
Yes that's true. At the time, we see than most people in this post consider him inferior to Murray and Ashe, so achievements wise he is in this range. I certainly disagree that he is better than Murray.
 

jean pierre

Professional
Yes that's true. At the time, we see than most people in this post consider him inferior to Murray and Ashe, so achievements wise he is in this range. I certainly disagree that he is better than Murray.
Yes, I don't know who is the best player, but (at that time) Vilas has the best results : he won more tournaments, more Grand Slams, and won the Masters (Murray not). Otherwise, Vilas was in fact number one (shame on ATP who refuses to recognize that fact).
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Yes, I don't know who is the best player, but (at that time) Vilas has the best results : he won more tournaments, more Grand Slams, and won the Masters (Murray not). Otherwise, Vilas was in fact number one (shame on ATP who refuses to recognize that fact).
Vilas's AO's were very weak, Murray has won more majors than him. The extra tournaments do count for something but considering the different tour structure it was easier to rack up large numbers of tournament victories. You've overrating Vilas a bit here.
 

jean pierre

Professional
Vilas's AO's were very weak, Murray has won more majors than him. The extra tournaments do count for something but considering the different tour structure it was easier to rack up large numbers of tournament victories. You've overrating Vilas a bit here.
It's an endless debate, but I think that Vilas's AO's (+ Masters) were great.
 

KG1965

Legend
Vilas is a number one not recognized by ATP , ... but for shameful mistake of laziness of ATP.
Murray and others are numers two.
 
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Mainad

Bionic Poster
On another note, have there really only been 11 players who have peaked at #2? Seems like such a low number - although I guess the #2 spot is often occupied by a player who reaches #1 at some point.


The list is of only those players who peaked at number #2 in the rankings. Murray, of course, is still active and it remains to be seen if he will peak higher before the close of his career.
 
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Navdeep Srivastava

Guest
Depends on how you want to rank them. On talent? Or on achievement? Here is my list for both:

On Talent
-------------
1/ Stich
2/ Korda
3/ Murray
4/ Vilas
5/ Chang
6/ Ivanisevic
7/ Haas
8/ Ashe
9/ Orantes
10/ Corretja
11/ Norman

On achievement
--------------------

1/ Murray
2/ Vilas
3/ Ashe
4/ Stich
5/ Chang
6/ Orantes
7/ Ivanisevic
8/ Korda
9/ Corretja
10/ Haas
11/ Norman
Friend how are you rating talent , practically Murray is talented than Stich, I hope you are not taking attractive style of play equal to talent. On talent list Ashe is quite down, he was certainly better than Haas and Chang.
 
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Xavier G

Hall of Fame
Top 3
Murray, Ashe, Vilas.

Murray has 2 Wimbledons, a US Open, 2 Olympic golds and a French final appearance. He's reached a lot of Slam finals and developed his clay court game over the last year or so.

Ashe was a great grass court and indoor player at his peak, clay let him down. I think Arthur has a good claim to be no.1 for 1975 even if Connors was the best all-court player generally and topped the official rankings. He didn't win a Major. I consider Ashe no1 for 1975 in a year of 4 different Majors winners. He did win the WCT thing and beat Borg there and at Wimbledon. And Jimmy of course.

Vilas liked Aussie grass but never made it past the QF's at Wimbledon, the most high profile grass tournament. Guillermo's two wins at the AO were in the days of weaker draws though and reduced prestige. The Masters he won was good quality. Clay was his speciality, so It's no surprise his US Open record looks good from 1975-77 on Har Tru. I'll give Vilas his no.1 for 1977, he won the French and US, he was very busy that year...
 
now it would be necessary to remove Murray from this list. Also to Ashe and Vilas, which were N ° 1 of different relevant rankings (prior to ATP) in 1975 and 1977.
 
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