Ranking the ATP top 10 by athleticism (2024)

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
I like it. Very good mixture of principles and I think your definitions allow for that highest tier in tennis athleticism: players who have that mixture of power, movement and balance but can separate themselves from the rest by combining it with massive endurance, repeatability and durability.

Thanks. You summed it up very succinctly, especially the last part.

Do you have a ranking of the top 10?
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
He moves like a tank. I think that suits his game. And except against the very top players, it doesn't seem to really hinder him day-in, day-out.
Yes that's why he has 7+ slam QF and no SF. He lacks athleticism. Same thing with Dimitrov. He lacks athleticism.
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
Yes that's why he has 7+ slam QF and no SF. He lacks athleticism. Same thing with Dimitrov. He lacks athleticism.

I kind of feel like you are imposing Djokovic's style on everyone else.

The big 3 didn't play much alike at all (unless you're a purist who believes only in s&v) and they would rank very differently in the categories I posted above, but all three were tremendous athletes in their own rights.

Dimitrov fits nicely into most of the same categories as Fed, but I think he uses his legs more in his overall game.

You say Rublev has "good" power. I never really cared for the Sinner-Rublev comparisons, but power-wise he's pretty close on the groundstrokes. On top of that, I don't think he loses much by changing surfaces. Is he going to chase down too many balls? No, but he wouldn't be Rublev if he played like that. You can't be athletic, win a bunch of 500s, make the quarters at almost every major for years, and still be competitive at the M1000s. His durability and consistency are definitely athletic traits.
 

Galvermegs

Professional
Just as I underestimated Dimitrov, I think people are underestimating Rublev and overrating Ruud.

Dimitrov has very strong legs, quick footwork, but he can be outlasted. On the other hand, I don't recall seeing Rublev ever really get tired on court. Few players can really outhit him and he plays fairly well on all surfaces. He's not the fastest, but he is just a tank.
He is good on clay and yes his footwork to impose his big forehand is good. But i dont see him near the top 3 in OP. Med and sinner definitely cause more problems with their athleticism... especially sinner in offence (med is about on par defensively with the hardcourt king).
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
He is good on clay and yes his footwork to impose his big forehand is good. But i dont see him near the top 3 in OP. Med and sinner definitely cause more problems with their athleticism... especially sinner in offence (med is about on par defensively with the hardcourt king).

I don't have Dimitrov in the top 3, even after I revised it.

First, when I consider Sinner early in his career (and I would say I'm weighing this year more, but definitely considering whole careers), many of his losses came about due to an athletic deficiency of some sort. He was always good at beating lower ranked opponents, but Djokovic really just outlasted him at Wimbledon, Zverev at the US Open, Alcaraz at the Open.

Under his new team, [insert obligatory doping joke], his balance has improved, although his background in skiing already gave him a natural advantage. And I don't think clostebol is responsible for that.

He's got sonic power, good speed [but like Dimitrov, other factors play a role], and great balance and good flexibility, although other parts of his game compensate for some weaknesses. Stamina-wise, it's a bit hard to say, because he hasn't really been tested this year.

Medvedev has good stamina, great body control, and might actually be faster than Sinner. Powerful serve, but even he's candid about his lack of power on ground strokes.

Dimitrov beats Medvedev on power [except for the backhand], both on body control, and Sinner on stamina.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
I kind of feel like you are imposing Djokovic's style on everyone else.

The big 3 didn't play much alike at all (unless you're a purist who believes only in s&v) and they would rank very differently in the categories I posted above, but all three were tremendous athletes in their own rights.

Dimitrov fits nicely into most of the same categories as Fed, but I think he uses his legs more in his overall game.

You say Rublev has "good" power. I never really cared for the Sinner-Rublev comparisons, but power-wise he's pretty close on the groundstrokes. On top of that, I don't think he loses much by changing surfaces. Is he going to chase down too many balls? No, but he wouldn't be Rublev if he played like that. You can't be athletic, win a bunch of 500s, make the quarters at almost every major for years, and still be competitive at the M1000s. His durability and consistency are definitely athletic traits.
Oh he does a lot by changing surfaces
I have thread for it.



Rublev is power baseliner. But he lacks speed around the court.

I am looking for Djokovic comparison for sure but they don't measure up a lot. This is modern tennis and no one can win without power for sure. Rublev has a lot of it so he has 2 masters.
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
Oh he does a lot by changing surfaces
I have thread for it.



Rublev is power baseliner. But he lacks speed around the court.

I am looking for Djokovic comparison for sure but they don't measure up a lot. This is modern tennis and no one can win without power for sure. Rublev has a lot of it so he has 2 masters.

How would you rank the likes of Marat Safin, Stan Wawrinka, and Jiri Vesely?
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
How would you rank the likes of Marat Safin, Stan Wawrinka, and Jiri Vesely?
Marat is very powerful. He used to average around 80 mph even from backhand. And moved very well in early career. Top class athlete.
I would want to see Marat in plays where power didn't work though. He couldn't blast past santoro. Defensive movement won't hold up vs Djokovic Murray and nadal.


Stan has power in abundance. He used to average 80+ mph on fh and 75 on bh. Stamina also good. But movement lacked a bit.

Jiri Vesley I need to see.
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
Oh he does a lot by changing surfaces
I have thread for it.



Rublev is power baseliner. But he lacks speed around the court.

I am looking for Djokovic comparison for sure but they don't measure up a lot. This is modern tennis and no one can win without power for sure. Rublev has a lot of it so he has 2 masters.

That thread doesn't have Rublev, from a quick search?
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
That thread doesn't have Rublev, from a quick search?
Yes the top one doesn't but if you see below I had Medvedev Rublev and dimitrov mentioned as bad on clay. Sadly Rublev has 2 masters on clay. Despite his movement. Due to easier draws.
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
Marat is very powerful. He used to average around 80 mph even from backhand. And moved very well in early career. Top class athlete.
I would want to see Marat in plays where power didn't work though. He couldn't blast past santoro. Defensive movement won't hold up vs Djokovic Murray and nadal.


Stan has power in abundance. He used to average 80+ mph on fh and 75 on bh. Stamina also good. But movement lacked a bit.

Jiri Vesley I need to see.

Exactly. All of them have tremendous power. And Safin in 2000 was a sight to be hold.

But once the drinking and the knees got to him, he lost a lot of movement. Stan was never the quickest, and neither is Vesely.

Rublev is built more in their molds, except on the serve. He doesn't need speed. When you're a tank, you aren't looking to cruise down the highway, you're looking to relentless smash everything in sight.

It's a very different type of athleticism.
 

Galvermegs

Professional
I don't have Dimitrov in the top 3, even after I revised it.

First, when I consider Sinner early in his career (and I would say I'm weighing this year more, but definitely considering whole careers), many of his losses came about due to an athletic deficiency of some sort. He was always good at beating lower ranked opponents, but Djokovic really just outlasted him at Wimbledon, Zverev at the US Open, Alcaraz at the Open.

Under his new team, [insert obligatory doping joke], his balance has improved, although his background in skiing already gave him a natural advantage. And I don't think clostebol is responsible for that.

He's got sonic power, good speed [but like Dimitrov, other factors play a role], and great balance and good flexibility, although other parts of his game compensate for some weaknesses. Stamina-wise, it's a bit hard to say, because he hasn't really been tested this year.

Medvedev has good stamina, great body control, and might actually be faster than Sinner. Powerful serve, but even he's candid about his lack of power on ground strokes.

Dimitrov beats Medvedev on power [except for the backhand], both on body control, and Sinner on stamina.
I am a bit uncertain what we are comparing. Athleticism to enable strokes or just athletic ability irrelevant of tennis? Monfils is as good an athlete as anyone but never had the best game although his serve and forehand were dangerous on their day.
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
I am a bit uncertain what we are comparing. Athleticism to enable strokes or just athletic ability irrelevant of tennis? Monfils is as good an athlete as anyone but never had the best game although his serve and forehand were dangerous on their day.

Monfils is the quintessential athlete, and his athletic skills are very much a part of his tennis game. That's a huge reason why he has had continued success into his 30s. To say he never had the "best" game is misleading. His talent is extreme, his technique is solid. Obviously, the other skills (competitive drive, commitment to the grind, discipline, etc.) that separate the top players from the rest of the Tour have been questionable since his early days. Injuries have also taken a toll, but it's hard to say how much. Not like a Thiem or Delpo, for sure.

To your other question, as I said before, this is their athletic ability in terms of their tennis. Tennis is a very forgiving sport and allows for a range of athletic skills. De Minaur is a speed demon on the court and he makes Rublev look positively sluggish. But Rublev slugs his groundstrokes in a way I imagine he slugged his opponents in the boxing ring. Both are great athletes, but they use it very differently.
 

Galvermegs

Professional
Monfils is the quintessential athlete, and his athletic skills are very much a part of his tennis game. That's a huge reason why he has had continued success into his 30s. To say he never had the "best" game is misleading. His talent is extreme, his technique is solid. Obviously, the other skills (competitive drive, commitment to the grind, discipline, etc.) that separate the top players from the rest of the Tour have been questionable since his early days. Injuries have also taken a toll, but it's hard to say how much. Not like a Thiem or Delpo, for sure.

To your other question, as I said before, this is their athletic ability in terms of their tennis. Tennis is a very forgiving sport and allows for a range of athletic skills. De Minaur is a speed demon on the court and he makes Rublev look positively sluggish. But Rublev slugs his groundstrokes in a way I imagine he slugged his opponents in the boxing ring. Both are great athletes, but they use it very differently.
Fair enough. Very hard to.do a list properly but i will put alca top for sure

I dont see the variety and point construction from gael that gasquet and tsonga have. I dont remember many astounding backhands. I dont think of deft touch or lobs. He does some things well. I just remember counterpunching and the scenic route. And yes.. the hopeless mentality at the business end of big events..
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Athleticism is threefold for me. Movement Power and Stamina.
Movement is number 1 because power hurts speed kills. Power is very very important and Stamina is last.


1. Alcaraz - Speedy Gonzalez with incredible stamina and almost insane power but he is not power baseliner and can be pushed back

2. Sinner - Incredible speed and insane power. Can't be pushed back. But not enough stamina.

3. Medvedev - Good power Good stamina and Good movement. Nothing excellent.

4. Zverev - Huge power good stamina but not enough movement.

5. Djokovic - Good speed, excellent power and questionable stamina now.

6. Demon - Huge speed good stamina but lacks power.

7. Ruud - Incredible stamina, very good power and average speed.

8. Rublev - Good power average stamina average speed

9. Dimitrov - Good speed average power and average stamina

10. Fritz - Average speed Good power and average stamina
@Aabye5

 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
Fair enough. Very hard to.do a list properly but i will put alca top for sure

I dont see the variety and point construction from gael that gasquet and tsonga have. I dont remember many astounding backhands. I dont think of deft touch or lobs. He does some things well. I just remember counterpunching and the scenic route. And yes.. the hopeless mentality at the business end of big events..

Yes, Alcaraz is good to great in all categories.

La Monf is no Djokovic or Gasquet with the backhand, but I was talking to someone else on these boards about his backhand, and found this video. Plus, he's playing Rafa, which makes this video perfect for a thread about athleticism. Two excellent backhand points back-to-back:


As far his net skills, Gasquet and Tsonga are better, but he's not far behind by any means. I'd rank him above both Rafa and Nole. His mental game...is better than Tomic? :p
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.

Great video, really showcases each guy's skills. The Sinner point on grass and the Alcaraz point against Medvedev were just madness.

One good thing about tennis in 2024 is that you have 8 players under 30 all playing some excellent tennis on a fairly consistent basis. With the players after Djokovic, too often we didn't see them all doing well at the same time. Del Po burst on the scene, but then was waylaid by injuries. I think the Cilic ban had a bit of an impact on him, even though it was reduced. Nishikori and Raonic were also plagued by injuries. Thiem was probably the most consistent challenger, although perhaps neither as consistent as Dimitrov nor as dangerous as Delpo. Gulbis, Kyrgios, Tomic, Kokkinakis, Chung, and Edmund all quickly flamed out for one reason or another.
 

puppybutts

Hall of Fame
Athleticism is threefold for me. Movement Power and Stamina.
Movement is number 1 because power hurts speed kills. Power is very very important and Stamina is last.


1. Alcaraz - Speedy Gonzalez with incredible stamina and almost insane power but he is not power baseliner and can be pushed back

2. Sinner - Incredible speed and insane power. Can't be pushed back. But not enough stamina.

3. Medvedev - Good power Good stamina and Good movement. Nothing excellent.

4. Zverev - Huge power good stamina but not enough movement.

5. Djokovic - Good speed, excellent power and questionable stamina now.

6. Demon - Huge speed good stamina but lacks power.

7. Ruud - Incredible stamina, very good power and average speed.

8. Rublev - Good power average stamina average speed

9. Dimitrov - Good speed average power and average stamina

10. Fritz - Average speed Good power and average stamina
I mostly agree with this except I would switch Medvedev and Zverev's ranks. Zverev's movement is incredible for his height. Medvedev has good court coverage but is comparatively slow and doesn't recover out of the corners or off a sprint as well.

I would also say Ruud has great speed, I would put him above Demon for that reason as Demon's lack of power is a more glaring weakness than Ruud's speed.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
I mostly agree with this except I would switch Medvedev and Zverev's ranks. Zverev's movement is incredible for his height. Medvedev has good court coverage but is comparatively slow and doesn't recover out of the corners or off a sprint as well.

I would also say Ruud has great speed, I would put him above Demon for that reason as Demon's lack of power is a more glaring weakness than Ruud's speed.
I agree with both changes.
 

FedForGOAT

Professional
I mostly agree with this except I would switch Medvedev and Zverev's ranks. Zverev's movement is incredible for his height. Medvedev has good court coverage but is comparatively slow and doesn't recover out of the corners or off a sprint as well.

I would also say Ruud has great speed, I would put him above Demon for that reason as Demon's lack of power is a more glaring weakness than Ruud's speed.
Hard disagree on the first one. I haven't watched Medvedev much lately, so it's possible he's slowed down significantly, but from what I've seen in the AO this year, as well as the last few years, Med's court coverage is significantly better than Zverev's. Zverev is an incredible mover for his height, Medvedev has incredible movement period. There were times when I thought his coverage was close to Djokovic level.

Zverev can generate significantly more pace and spin, but Med's movement (especially defensively) is much better IMO.
 

Galvermegs

Professional
Yes, Alcaraz is good to great in all categories.

La Monf is no Djokovic or Gasquet with the backhand, but I was talking to someone else on these boards about his backhand, and found this video. Plus, he's playing Rafa, which makes this video perfect for a thread about athleticism. Two excellent backhand points back-to-back:


As far his net skills, Gasquet and Tsonga are better, but he's not far behind by any means. I'd rank him above both Rafa and Nole. His mental game...is better than Tomic? :p
Monfils is very good. Very very good indeed. But he rarely peaks at the right time. I just wanted at least a murray or wawrinka level career and kept seeing excitement and melodrama. He seemed to love being a showman first and a champion second. But so long as he is happy with his efforts then fair play. And the svitolina connection is very positive and charming. She cannot be called an underachiever to the same degree. Definitely knew how to win finals more consistently too.
 

Winner Sinner

Hall of Fame
Medvedev relatively slow?

I hope it's a joke, Medvedev moves with disconcerting speed compared to his height.
Then I don't know who between him and Zverev is quicker in the short term, but Medvedev is certainly much more dynamic and fluid in his movements than Zverev
 

Rovesciarete

Hall of Fame
Medvedev relatively slow?

I hope it's a joke, Medvedev moves with disconcerting speed compared to his height.
Then I don't know who between him and Zverev is quicker in the short term, but Medvedev is certainly much more dynamic and fluid in his movements than Zverev

Zverev looks more athletic but Medvedev is surprisingly fast and has also crazy endurance. Defending deep suits him so well, giving him a little more time to work those long limbs.
 

Winner Sinner

Hall of Fame
My ranking;

1) Alcaraz
2) Sinner
3) De Minaur
4) Medvedev and Zverev
6) Djokovic
7) Rublev
8) Ruud
9) Dimitrov
10) Fritz

Sinner deserves second position, for being over 1.90 meters tall, he has sensational movement and coordination.
Alcaraz is more explosive and powerful than him, but despite a stocky physique with a low center of gravity, not even Alcaraz has the balance that Sinner manages to find.
The fluidity that Sinner has in impacting the ball does not belong to any player in the current top ten.
Fluidity which, in addition to perfect timing on the ball, allows him to generate those crazy speeds with baseline shots.

Zverev himself declared that he would like to have the power of the blows of Sinner and Alcaraz, only that while Alcaraz generates that power of pure brute force in full contraction (and this is causing him a lot of problems in the shoulder, elbow and forearm area) Sinner at otherwise it does so in full decontraction.
 
@Aabye5

See this. Dimitrov has canon of a forehand but chump BH and had it for his entire career. This is exactly why he never mattered.

We are in power era of tennis.

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This is a dumb stat, as Dimitrov has an excellent slice backhand and uses it quite a bit, as did Fed. The guys with the higher speeds all hit a much higher percentage of topspin backhands, thus the speeds being higher.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
This is a dumb stat, as Dimitrov has an excellent slice backhand and uses it quite a bit, as did Fed. The guys with the higher speeds all hit a much higher percentage of topspin backhands, thus the speeds being higher.
Even fed backhand is no special. But he hits way more topspin than dimi.

Slice shows you weakness and constant slicing is going to give zero wins in tennis today. It worked for Steffi graf because wta didn't adjust to her by countering with power. Modern racket and speed of players , they would murder her backhand.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Slice is weakness in tennis. Maybe if you take it to go to net then ok but even then net play is not percentage play with modern power game. Dimitrov sliced way too much showing weakness.
 

Rovesciarete

Hall of Fame
Even fed backhand is no special. But he hits way more topspin than dimi.

Slice shows you weakness and constant slicing is going to give zero wins in tennis today. It worked for Steffi graf because wta didn't adjust to her by countering with power. Modern racket and speed of players , they would murder her backhand.

Murder is maybe much, Barthy did fine later on but it could be a weakness. Better fitness and tech allow for more inside-in or inside-out counter plays. The bh slice was at is height when drives were flatter and players less fit.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Murder is maybe much, Barthy did fine later on but it could be a weakness. Better fitness and tech allow for more inside-in or inside-out counter plays.
Ok that is a comparison I can agree. Barty sliced 55% and Graf 90%. Maybe in WTA it would work.

Dimitrov slices 51% and even that is too much.
 

Rovesciarete

Hall of Fame
Ok that is a comparison I can agree. Barty sliced 55% and Graf 90%. Maybe in WTA it would work.

Dimitrov slices 51% and even that is too much.

Imho slicing deep into the backhand is still a valid play in the WTA as they face less spin, a weaker fh threat and ask different tactical questions.

Counter-slicing on grass is different and the cc bh slice is from time to time a good tactical tool against particular players like Medvedev or Zverev.
 

RaulRamirez

Legend
There probably is not a consensus definition of athletes -- athleticism. I tend to see it as everything apart from "mental game" and actual stroke mechanics. I am not at all indicating that those two aspects are not important. Over the years, we have seen amazing ball strikers (I would think of Berdych...possibly, even Agassi) who I don't consider to be great athletes...this is all relative, of course. And there have been stunningly good athletes...think Gael Monfils...who were not great ball strikers (relative). For athletes, I think of the stuff that jumps off the screen -- speed, agility, such as it comes into play, fluidity, ability to leave their feet, balance, coordination, strength. I hadn't really thought about stamina, and I don't give that quite as much consideration. Still, this is really a gut decision.

My list:
1. Alcaraz
2. Djoker
3. Dimi
4. Sinner
5. Zverev
6. Ruud
7. Demon
8. Med
9. Rublev
10. Fritz
 
Monfils is very good. Very very good indeed. But he rarely peaks at the right time. I just wanted at least a murray or wawrinka level career and kept seeing excitement and melodrama. He seemed to love being a showman first and a champion second. But so long as he is happy with his efforts then fair play. And the svitolina connection is very positive and charming. She cannot be called an underachiever to the same degree. Definitely knew how to win finals more consistently too.
A Murray or Wawrinka level career?

Murray and Wawrinka didn’t have the same level career. So let’s get that right first.
 

Daniel Andrade

Hall of Fame
Someone posted a bit ago about Sinner being the top athlete Tour these days, which I found a little too flattering to the world number 1. Obviously, these players are all tremendous athletes, but relative to each other, this is a good question.

Here's how I would rank them:

1. Djokovic
2. Alcaraz
3. De Minaur
4. Rublev
5. Zverev
6. Sinner
7. Dimitrov
8. Medvedev
9. Ruud
10. Fritz
Can I disagree?
 

Rovesciarete

Hall of Fame
For me it is more about tiers of the whole athletic package:

I Tier: Alcaraz: Incredible combination of power, speed and stamina

II Tier: Djokovic, Zverev, Sinner, De Minaur, Medvedev, Rublev: Lots of different strengths and some weaknesses but roughly in the same ballpark.

III Tier: Fritz, Dimi: Progress for Fritz but still somewhat below the second group and Dimi really struggles in longer matches and isn't quite as fast in shorter ones.

In 2023 I would have put into the third tier and Hubi as well. Djokovic might be III tier, but he masks it so well.
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
Imho slicing deep into the backhand is still a valid play in the WTA as they face less spin, a weaker fh threat and ask different tactical questions.

Counter-slicing on grass is different and the cc bh slice is from time to time a good tactical tool against particular players like Medvedev or Zverev.

Djere was using pretty effectively until his injury at the US Open. Dan Evans has also employed it to some success at times.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Look at the first match and second and difference in athleticism.


I agree with @puppybutts Zverev has more speed than meddy. Especially running down so many droppers and attacking the net. That needs to play at baseline, hit topspin and have speed.

That last game rally between Zverev and alcaraz , both went toe to toe. That needs athleticism. Almost no one could replicate it. Zverev has top level athleticism.
 

Rovesciarete

Hall of Fame
Look at the first match and second and difference in athleticism.


I agree with @puppybutts Zverev has more speed than meddy. Especially running down so many droppers and attacking the net. That needs to play at baseline, hit topspin and have speed.

That last game rally between Zverev and alcaraz , both went toe to toe. That needs athleticism. Almost no one could replicate it. Zverev has top level athleticism.

Sascha seems to be bit faster over short sprints while Daniil might have slightly more endurance.
 
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