Ranking the repertoires of the Big 4

#1
Was a bit bored so decided to rank who's better at different shots when all 4 are at their peak. Feel free to make your own but this is spot on.

Forehand Overall:
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3- Djokovic
4- Murray

FH DTL
1- Nadal
2- Federer
3- Djokovic
4- Murray

FH CC
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3- Djokovic
4- Murray

Backhand overall
1- Djokovic
2- Murray
3= Nadal
3= Federer

BH DTL
1-Djokovic
2- Murray
3- Federer
4- Nadal

BH CC
1- Murray
2- Djokovic
3- Nadal
4- Federer

Passing shots
1- Nadal
2- Federer
3- Murray
4- Djokovic

First serve
1- Federer
2- Murray
3- Djokovic
4- Nadal

Second serve
1- Federer
2- Djokovic
3- Nadal
4- Murray

Volleys
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3- Murray
4- Djokovic

Overheads
1- Nadal
2- Federer
3- Murray

Slice
1- Federer
2- Murray
3- Nadal
4- Djokovic

Lobs
1- Murray
2- Djokovic
3- Nadal
4- Federer

Dropshots
1- Federer
2- Djokovic
3- Nadal
4- Murray

Returning
1- Djokovic
2- Murray
3- Federer
4- Nadal

Shotmaking
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3=Djokovic
3= Murray
 
#5
How is Nadal's returning worse than Fed's. Do you mean RoS? IMO, Fed's RoS is pretty lousy (comparing it to the best of the best like Djokovic and Agassi).

EDIT

Here's my take.

Forehand Overall:
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3- Djokovic
4- Murray

FH DTL
1- Nadal
2- Federer
3- Djokovic
4- Murray

FH CC
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3- Djokovic
4- Murray

Backhand overall
1- Djokovic
2- Nadal
3- Murray
4- Federer

BH DTL
1- Djokovic
2- Nadal
3- Murray
4- Federer

BH CC
1- Djokovic
2- Nadal
3- Murray
4- Federer

Passing shots
1- Nadal
2- Murray
3- Federer
4- Djokovic

First serve
1- Federer
2- Murray
3- Djokovic
4- Nadal

Second serve (not sure about this one, I'll just agree with the OP, but IMO Fed's 2nd serve isn't a weapon)
1- Federer
2- Djokovic
3- Nadal
4- Murray

Volleys
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3- Murray
4- Djokovic

Overheads
1- Nadal
2- Federer
3- Murray
LOL @Djokovic's overhead

Slice
1- Federer
2- Murray
3- Nadal
4- Djokovic

Lobs
1- Murray
2- Djokovic
3- Nadal
4- Federer

Dropshots
1- Federer
2- Djokovic
3- Nadal
4- Murray

Returning
1- Djokovic
2- Murray
3- Nadal
4- Federer

Shotmaking
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3- Murray
4- Djokovic
 
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#6
Nadal has a better backhand than Federer. I root for Fed but this is a fact. If he didn't, Fed would've never lost those slams to him off clay, with a better serve, FH and BH. Nadal's BHCC is a solid weapon, has always been. I'd move Murray down to #3 in the CCBH list, and put Nadal equal to Federer in BHDTL, and ahead of Djokovic in the drop shot department.
 
#8
Nadal has a better backhand than Federer. I root for Fed but this is a fact. If he didn't, Fed would've never lost those slams to him off clay, with a better serve, FH and BH. Nadal's BHCC is a solid weapon, has always been. I'd move Murray down to #3 in the CCBH list, and put Nadal equal to Federer in BHDTL, and ahead of Djokovic in the drop shot department.
Yeah Nadal's backhand is definitely better, Federer's only gets close if you include the slice but for the topspin backhand Nadal's is clearly the more consistent and often damaging shot.
 
#15
Returning
1- Djokovic
2- Murray
3- Federer
4- Nadal
Incorrect. Federer is the worst returner of the Big 4. Both Murray and Djokovic are better returners than Federer on every surface. And Nadal is a better returner than Federer both on clay and hard courts.

The Return Rating is measured by considering these 4 factors: 1) % 1st Serve Return Points Won, 2) % 2nd Serve Return Points Won, 3) % Return Games Won and 4) % Break Points Converted.

According to the ATP, Nadal has a Return Rating on hard courts of 157.4 and Federer of only 152.1. Nadal is the 15th player with a better Return Rating on hard courts and Federer is not even top 35.
https://www.atptour.com/en/stats/le...r&surface=hard&versusRank=all&formerNo1=false

On clay, Nadal has a Return Rating of 189.3, being the best clay returner of all time, while Federer is not the best returner of all time on any surface.
https://www.atptour.com/en/stats/le...r&surface=clay&versusRank=all&formerNo1=false

The only surface where Federer is a better returner than Nadal is grass, Federer is the 25th greatest returner on grass of all time, while Nadal is the 36th ebst returner ever on grass: https://www.atptour.com/en/stats/le...r&surface=clay&versusRank=all&formerNo1=false

Stats are the only way to be objective. No link to stats, no credibility.
 
#16
BH DTL
1- Djokovic
2- Nadal
3- Murray
4- Federer

BH CC
1- Djokovic
2- Nadal
3- Murray
4- Federer
You're really underrating Murray's backhand here. I probably couldn't find it now, but I know someone somewhere did an analysis where they took winning backhand shots (winners, errors forced from opponents, or a backhand shot that set up a winner or forced error on the next shot) and divided it by losing backhand shots (unforced errors, forced errors, and backhand shots that allowed the opponent to hit a winner or force an error). Murray and Djokovic were far ahead and had a very similar number. Nadal was quite a bit below, though also sizably ahead of Federer.
 
#17
Backhand overall
1- Djokovic
2- Murray
3= Nadal
3= Federer
Are you kidding? Federer's backhand has always been worse than Nadal's one, excluding the first months of 2017. Nadal has always attacked Federer's backhand as it is his main weakness, while Federer cannot attack Nadal's backhand. Nadal's backhand is more reliable than Federer's one, as he makes far less unforced errors than Federer.

And it is untrue that Federer's backhand post-2017 is better than Nadal's one. Check out the highlights of the RG 2019 SF. Federer did almost zero backhand winners, while Nadal was killing Federer with a lot of backhand winners. Nadal's crossed backhand was the shot of that match. And you can't say "the surface made Federer's backhand inefficient", because Nadal made many backhand winners that match. Federer's backhand is just less eficient than Nadal's one. Nadal was attacking Federer's backhand all the time at RG 2019, and it was proved to be a good strategy.
 
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#18
Dropshots
1- Federer
2- Djokovic
3- Nadal
4- Murray
Murray
Nadal makes far better drop shots than Djokovic. Djokovic failed all his drop shots against Nadal in Rome, and Nadal is an expert in drop shots. Check out the highlights of RG 2017 or the RG 2019 final highlights. The highlight sof his match vs Soderling at Wimbledon are also valid to see his majestic dorp shots. Nadal makes many impressive drop shots.
 
#19
I'm sorry but Murray is overrated here. Murray is not a better shot maker than Djokovic. That's just silly. Djokovic is also better at lobs than Murray. I'm not sure that Murray has a single shot that's better than Novak. Well, overhead I guess :p:).

Djokovic is better than Murray in almost every department.
Nadal a bit under rated.

When it comes to shot making I'd go with 1. Fed 2. Djokovic. They are natural. Second serve should go to Djokovic too. Or it's 50/50 between Novak and Fed. Djokovic improved a lot lately though. His second serve is a weapon. It is difficult to compare a shot by shot. It doesn't work that way, but OK we are bubbling.

Sorry, OP. It's just my observation. I didn't want to compare single shots whatever .... It seems to me that Fed and Djoko have the highest tennis IQ on the tour. I also think that Djokovic is mentally the strongest one at the moment.

I think that Rafa is smart but the part I do not understand is that his English is still so bad. He just can not express himself. He is always struggling. Please, I don't want to offend anyone but Rafa should be speaking fluent English by now. It is better, still it's hard to understand what he is saying sometimes.
 
#20
You're really underrating Murray's backhand here. I probably couldn't find it now, but I know someone somewhere did an analysis where they took winning backhand shots (winners, errors forced from opponents, or a backhand shot that set up a winner or forced error on the next shot) and divided it by losing backhand shots (unforced errors, forced errors, and backhand shots that allowed the opponent to hit a winner or force an error). Murray and Djokovic were far ahead and had a very similar number. Nadal was quite a bit below, though also sizably ahead of Federer.
Note that since this stat is based on shot usage, it exaggerates the skill difference somewhat since players with better FH use it more often and BH less often, while players with better BH (Gasquet, lol) use it more often and FH less often. The basic findings are true though, Murray's BH is better but his FH is significantly worse compared to Fedal.
 
#21
Nadal makes far better drop shots than Djokovic. Djokovic failed all his drop shots against Nadal in Rome, and Nadal is an expert in drop shots. Check out the highlights of RG 2017 or the RG 2019 final highlights. The highlight sof his match vs Soderling at Wimbledon are also valid to see his majestic dorp shots. Nadal makes many impressive drop shots.
The drop shot is a finesse shot and of course if you are playing well and confidently you'll hit them well, otherwise it's going to be a disaster. I don't think it's fair to count the ones he hit in the Rome final because he wasn't using them strategically, it was just a bail out shot because he didn't want to rally anymore.

While I do think Nadal has good droppers, I don't think overall he has "far better" drop shots than Djokovic in a normal day
 
#22
Note that since this stat is based on shot usage, it exaggerates the skill difference somewhat since players with better FH use it more often and BH less often, while players with better BH (Gasquet, lol) use it more often and FH less often. The basic findings are true though, Murray's BH is better but his FH is significantly worse compared to Fedal.
That's a fair point – Nadal is more likely to run around and hit a forehand if he's in an advantageous position, thereby lowering his rating under this metric (possibly, at least; it depends on how the point goes since if he set up that winning forehand with a backhand it still gives him credit). And it also only captures point-ending (or penultimate) backhand shots, not more routine shots or even extremely aggressive/defensive shots that simply don't end the point. But still, I think there would be very few stats showing Nadal has a better backhand than Murray does.
 
#23
The drop shot is a finesse shot and of course if you are playing well and confidently you'll hit them well, otherwise it's going to be a disaster. I don't think it's fair to count the ones he hit in the Rome final because he wasn't using them strategically, it was just a bail out shot because he didn't want to rally anymore.

While I do think Nadal has good droppers, I don't think overall he has "far better" drop shots than Djokovic in a normal day
I'd love to see some hard data on drop shots because I really couldn't rank any of these guys relative to the others. All four hit great ones at times and all four hit some pretty bad ones. Most of the other categories or fairly clear just watching them play and looking at basic stats like winners/unforced errors, but drop shot is one that's just not captured by most match stats. (Lob is similar and I'd be curious what the hard stats say about that one as well.)
 
#25
I'm sorry but Murray is overrated here. Murray is not a better shot maker than Djokovic. That's just silly. Djokovic is also better at lobs than Murray. I'm not sure that Murray has a single shot that's better than Novak. Well, overhead I guess :p:).

Djokovic is better than Murray in almost every department.
Nadal a bit under rated.

When it comes to shot making I'd go with 1. Fed 2. Djokovic. They are natural. Second serve should go to Djokovic too. Or it's 50/50 between Novak and Fed. Djokovic improved a lot lately though. His second serve is a weapon. It is difficult to compare a shot by shot. It doesn't work that way, but OK we are bubbling.

Sorry, OP. It's just my observation. I didn't want to compare single shots whatever .... It seems to me that Fed and Djoko have the highest tennis IQ on the tour. I also think that Djokovic is mentally the strongest one at the moment.

I think that Rafa is smart but the part I do not understand is that his English is still so bad. He just can not express himself. He is always struggling. Please, I don't want to offend anyone but Rafa should be speaking fluent English by now. It is better, still it's hard to understand what he is saying sometimes.
I’m sorry but it is offensive to be boring on about Nadal’s English.

It’s a healthy B2 level. He’s improved a lot over the years.
 
#26
I never understood why Fed is so bad at lobs, especially given how "touch" and "feel" are typically such strong aspects of his game. I feel like he always underhits them and serves up an easily smashable ball for the opponent.

Murray is in a class by himself on this one. His lobs are always unbelievably good.
 
#27
I never understood why Fed is so bad at lobs, especially given how "touch" and "feel" are typically such strong aspects of his game. I feel like he always underhits them and serves up an easily smashable ball for the opponent.

Murray is in a class by himself on this one. His lobs are always unbelievably good.
I am convinced that Murray is so good at the lob because of all the training he would have had annoying his older brother....
 
#28
How is Nadal's returning worse than Fed's. Do you mean RoS? IMO, Fed's RoS is pretty lousy (comparing it to the best of the best like Djokovic and Agassi).

EDIT

Here's my take.

Forehand Overall:
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3- Djokovic
4- Murray

FH DTL
1- Nadal
2- Federer
3- Djokovic
4- Murray

FH CC
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3- Djokovic
4- Murray

Backhand overall
1- Djokovic
2- Nadal
3- Murray
4- Federer

BH DTL
1- Djokovic
2- Nadal
3- Murray
4- Federer

BH CC
1- Djokovic
2- Nadal
3- Murray
4- Federer

Passing shots
1- Nadal
2- Murray
3- Federer
4- Djokovic

First serve
1- Federer
2- Murray
3- Djokovic
4- Nadal

Second serve (not sure about this one, I'll just agree with the OP, but IMO Fed's 2nd serve isn't a weapon)
1- Federer
2- Djokovic
3- Nadal
4- Murray

Volleys
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3- Murray
4- Djokovic

Overheads
1- Nadal
2- Federer
3- Murray
LOL @Djokovic's overhead

Slice
1- Federer
2- Murray
3- Nadal
4- Djokovic

Lobs
1- Murray
2- Djokovic
3- Nadal
4- Federer

Dropshots
1- Federer
2- Djokovic
3- Nadal
4- Murray

Returning
1- Djokovic
2- Murray
3- Nadal
4- Federer

Shotmaking
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3- Murray
4- Djokovic
Murray has a better backhand than Rafas.
Djokos a better slice than Rafas. Rafas has too much margin
 
#29
Was a bit bored so decided to rank who's better at different shots when all 4 are at their peak. Feel free to make your own but this is spot on.

Forehand Overall:
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3- Djokovic
4- Murray

FH DTL
1- Nadal
2- Federer
3- Djokovic
4- Murray

FH CC
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3- Djokovic
4- Murray

Backhand overall
1- Djokovic
2- Murray
3= Nadal
3= Federer

BH DTL
1-Djokovic
2- Murray
3- Federer
4- Nadal

BH CC
1- Murray
2- Djokovic
3- Nadal
4- Federer

Passing shots
1- Nadal
2- Federer
3- Murray
4- Djokovic

First serve
1- Federer
2- Murray
3- Djokovic
4- Nadal

Second serve
1- Federer
2- Djokovic
3- Nadal
4- Murray

Volleys
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3- Murray
4- Djokovic

Overheads
1- Nadal
2- Federer
3- Murray

Slice
1- Federer
2- Murray
3- Nadal
4- Djokovic

Lobs
1- Murray
2- Djokovic
3- Nadal
4- Federer

Dropshots
1- Federer
2- Djokovic
3- Nadal
4- Murray

Returning
1- Djokovic
2- Murray
3- Federer
4- Nadal

Shotmaking
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3=Djokovic
3= Murray
LMAO at overhead, you didnt even put Djokovic's name :-D:-D:-D was that on purpose? @CYGS @Lew II tear this guy apart dont let him get away with that :-D:-D:-D but for real novaks overhead arguably worst in ATP top 100 and rubbish net play too
 
#31
I think that Rafa is smart but the part I do not understand is that his English is still so bad. He just can not express himself. He is always struggling. Please, I don't want to offend anyone but Rafa should be speaking fluent English by now. It is better, still it's hard to understand what he is saying sometimes.
Nadal is spanish, why on earth is he obliged to learn english or improve? People dont need to learn english. Also I always get the feeling that he is smart in the sense that since he wants a private and simple life which is his perogative that he has realised the best way to deal with the media is just give them fairly generic repitive answers. It is a drag to do media every match too, just give generic answers is easier
 
#32
LMAO at overhead, you didnt even put Djokovic's name :-D:-D:-D was that on purpose? @CYGS @Lew II tear this guy apart dont let him get away with that :-D:-D:-D but for real novaks overhead arguably worst in ATP top 100 and rubbish net play too
Eh. Net play he's certainly not up to the level of say Federer, but in this last year, he's come to the net far more often and is more than willing to play a S&V game, with a decent amount of success. I wouldn't say rubbish. Overheads, though? Even though he's been better in the past year, that shot will never be any better than last of all 4 of them. He had a career to improve it and only just started. (It's been okay recently though.)
 
#33
Eh. Net play he's certainly not up to the level of say Federer, but in this last year, he's come to the net far more often and is more than willing to play a S&V game, with a decent amount of success. I wouldn't say rubbish. Overheads, though? Even though he's been better in the past year, that shot will never be any better than last of all 4 of them. He had a career to improve it and only just started. (It's been okay recently though.)
He improved net play loads, even just in the french. Don't see why he cant turn it around and be a great net player soon. He has realised he needs to for longevity. His overheads are genuinely awful and have actually cost him matches pretty much as he lost key points because of mug approacehs and cocked up smashes. A few of the french opens spring to mind and I dont just mean that famous touched the net vs nadal
 
#34
Changed as per my understanding , quite similar though:

Forehand Overall:
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3- Djokovic
4- Murray

FH DTL
1- Nadal
2- Federer
3- Djokovic
4- Murray

FH CC
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3- Djokovic
4- Murray

Backhand overall
1- Djokovic
2- Murray
3 Nadal
4. Federer

BH DTL
1-Djokovic
2- Murray
3- Federer
4- Nadal

BH CC
1- Djokovic
2- Murray
3- Nadal
4- Federer

Passing shots
1- Nadal
2- Federer
3- Murray
4- Djokovic

First serve
1- Federer
2- Djokovic
3- Murray
4- Nadal

Second serve
1- Federer
2- Djokovic
3- Nadal
4- Murray

Volleys
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3- Murray
4- Djokovic

Overheads
1- Nadal
2- Federer
3- Murray

1000000000- Djokovic

Slice

1- Federer
2- Murray
3- Nadal
4- Djokovic

Lobs

1- Murray
2- Djokovic
3- Nadal
4- Federer

Dropshots
1- Federer
2- Djokovic =Nadal
4- Murray

Returning
1- Djokovic
2- Murray
3- Federer = Nadal

Shotmaking
1- Federer
2- Nadal
3.Djokovic
4. Murray
 
#35
I never understood why Fed is so bad at lobs, especially given how "touch" and "feel" are typically such strong aspects of his game. I feel like he always underhits them and serves up an easily smashable ball for the opponent.

Murray is in a class by himself on this one. His lobs are always unbelievably good.
Maybe because Fed is a pure attacking/offensive player who rushes the net frequently (for this day and age), so never really had the need for practising it too much. Lob-meisters OTOH tend to be more defensive (baseline) players, such as Murray and Hewitt, so they do require to practice the lob a fair bit more than offensive players.
 
#36
Maybe because Fed is a pure attacking/offensive player who rushes the net frequently (for this day and age), so never really had the need for practising it too much. Lob-meisters OTOH tend to be more defensive (baseline) players, such as Murray and Hewitt, so they do require to practice the lob a fair bit more than offensive players.
That makes sense. Never thought of it like that.
 
#37
Incorrect. Federer is the worst returner of the Big 4. Both Murray and Djokovic are better returners than Federer on every surface. And Nadal is a better returner than Federer both on clay and hard courts.

The Return Rating is measured by considering these 4 factors: 1) % 1st Serve Return Points Won, 2) % 2nd Serve Return Points Won, 3) % Return Games Won and 4) % Break Points Converted.

According to the ATP, Nadal has a Return Rating on hard courts of 157.4 and Federer of only 152.1. Nadal is the 15th player with a better Return Rating on hard courts and Federer is not even top 35.
https://www.atptour.com/en/stats/le...r&surface=hard&versusRank=all&formerNo1=false

On clay, Nadal has a Return Rating of 189.3, being the best clay returner of all time, while Federer is not the best returner of all time on any surface.
https://www.atptour.com/en/stats/le...r&surface=clay&versusRank=all&formerNo1=false

The only surface where Federer is a better returner than Nadal is grass, Federer is the 25th greatest returner on grass of all time, while Nadal is the 36th ebst returner ever on grass: https://www.atptour.com/en/stats/le...r&surface=clay&versusRank=all&formerNo1=false

Stats are the only way to be objective. No link to stats, no credibility.
There's a difference between return game (return of serve + baseline game) and return as a standalone shot (return of serve only). Nadal is one of the best in the former but average in the latter. Return points won and return games won are skewed by how strong a player is in a neutral rally. These stats say little about how strong the return of serve as a standalone shot is.
 
#41
Serve

1. Fed
2. Djo
3. Nad
4. Mur

Return

1. Djo
2. Mur
3. Fed
4. Nad

Forehand

1. Nad
2. Djo/Fed
4. Mur

Backhand

1. Djo
2. Mur
3. Nad/Fed

Volleys

1. Fed
2. Nad
3. Mur
4. Djo
Fed's return isn't world class good tbh. I wonder why everyone puts Fed's RoS above that of Nadal. Especially on the BH side Nadal has the advantage.
 
#42
Forehand overall:
1) Federer
2) Nadal
3)Djokovic
4) Murray
FH DTL:
1)Nadal
2)Federer
3) Djokovic
4)Murray
FH CC
1)Federer
2) Nadal
3) Djokovic
4)Murray
Backhand Overall:
1)Djokovic
2)Murray
3)Federer
4)Nadal
BH DTL
1)Djokovic
2)Murray
3)Federer
4)Nadal
BH cc
1)Djokovic
2)Murray
3)Nadal
4)Federer
Passing Shots
1)Nadal
2)Murray
3)Djokovic
4)Federer
First Serve:
1)Federer
2)Murray
3)Djokovic
4)Nadal
Second Serve
1)Federer
2)Nadal
3)Djokovic
4)Murray
Volleys
1)Federer
2)Murray
3)Nadal
4)Djokovic
Overheads
1)Federer
2)Nadal
3)Murray
4)Djokovic
Slice
1)Murray/Federer
2)Nadal
3)Djokovic
Lobs
1)Murray
2)Federer
3)Nadal
4)Djokovic
Dropshots
1)Federer
2)Djokovic
3)Murray
4)Nadal
Returning
1)Djokovic
2)Nadal
3)Murray
4)Federer
Shotmaking
1)Federer
2)Nadal/Murray
3)djok
 
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