Ranking USO 2nd tier Champs?

BGod

Legend
Connors, Pete & Roger are firmly in a class of their own at the US Open but how do you rank the 2nd tier of legends:

Nadal 4 in 5 Finals, 3 Semis
McEnroe 4 in 5 Finals (Threepeat), 3 Semis
Lendl 3 in 8 Finals (Threepeat), 1 Semi
Djokovic 3 in 8 Finals, 3 Semis
Agassi 2 in 6 Finals, 4 Semis

I know Agassi with his 2 titles sticks out like a sore thumb but arguably toughest opponents in losses of Sampras (3) & Federer in finals and Lendl twice in semis as a teen.

And of course Lendl had 8 consecutive Finals which is the record for any Slam and again tough opponents.

And with McEnroe & Lendl there's a gap with winning 3 in a row and Nadal/Novak not even having a repeat.

1. Lendl
2. McEnroe
3. Djokovic
4. Agassi
5. Nadal

Controversial I'm sure but Andre has the 1 additional Final & Semi while facing an absolute wall in later stages. Nadal has the 2 quality wins over Novak but Anderson/Medvedev is below even a Todd Martin for Agassi while getting Lendl to 4 sets alone as a teen is massive. Nadal also got obliterated by Potro twice and Andy Murray. So yeah seeing Agassi still above.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Connors, Pete & Roger are firmly in a class of their own at the US Open but how do you rank the 2nd tier of legends:

Nadal 4 in 5 Finals, 3 Semis
McEnroe 4 in 5 Finals (Threepeat), 3 Semis
Lendl 3 in 8 Finals (Threepeat), 1 Semi
Djokovic 3 in 8 Finals, 3 Semis
Agassi 2 in 6 Finals, 4 Semis

I know Agassi with his 2 titles sticks out like a sore thumb but arguably toughest opponents in losses of Sampras (3) & Federer in finals and Lendl twice in semis as a teen.

And of course Lendl had 8 consecutive Finals which is the record for any Slam and again tough opponents.

And with McEnroe & Lendl there's a gap with winning 3 in a row and Nadal/Novak not even having a repeat.

1. Lendl
2. McEnroe
3. Djokovic
4. Agassi
5. Nadal

Controversial I'm sure but Andre has the 1 additional Final & Semi while facing an absolute wall in later stages. Nadal has the 2 quality wins over Novak but Anderson/Medvedev is below even a Todd Martin for Agassi while getting Lendl to 4 sets alone as a teen is massive. Nadal also got obliterated by Potro twice and Andy Murray. So yeah seeing Agassi still above.
 

Sport

Legend
1. Nadal with 4 titles (stronger competition than McEnroe)
2. McEnroe with 4 titles
3. Djokovic with 3 titles (stronger competition than Lendl)
4. Lendl with 3 titles
5. Agassi with 2 titles

Nadal had to defeat twice Djokovic in the USO 2010 and USO 2013 finals. McEnroe never faced any rival as strong as Djokovic. The 2019 run also had a tough opponent. Nadal faced Medvedev in the USO 2019 final, the most in form player post-Wimbledon with 6 consecutive finals. Even in his relatively weakest draw, in the USO 2017, Nadal faced Del Potro, the same opponent Djokovic had in the USO 2018 final. Del Potro is a solid rival.

And Djokovic had to face Fedal in 2011/2015 which is stronger than anything Lendl ever faced.
 
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clout

Hall of Fame
I think I'd still rank Agassi above Nadal lol. Sue me.
I’m an Agassi fan but that’d be an uphill battle. Nadal has double the amount of US Open titles and Nadal won 4 titles in 9 years (7 attempts), while Agassi won 2 in 6 years. Nadal also got the better of his biggest rival in 2 finals while Andre could never get by Pete there.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
I’m an Agassi fan but that’d be an uphill battle. Nadal has double the amount of US Open titles and Nadal won 4 titles in 9 years (7 attempts), while Agassi won 2 in 6 years. Nadal also got the better of his biggest rival in 2 finals while Andre could never get by Pete there.
Agassi still has more deep runs and facing Pete/Fed 6 times is pretty tough. Also faced Lendl twice too early in his career in the semis.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
I’m an Agassi fan but that’d be an uphill battle. Nadal has double the amount of US Open titles and Nadal won 4 titles in 9 years (7 attempts), while Agassi won 2 in 6 years. Nadal also got the better of his biggest rival in 2 finals while Andre could never get by Pete there.
Nadal having twice the titles is compelling, but comparing Djokovic to Sampras at the USO is not. Sampras played substantially better in basically every victory over Agassi then Djokovic did in those losses.
 

Sport

Legend
Nadal having twice the titles is compelling, but comparing Djokovic to Sampras at the USO is not. Sampras played substantially better in basically every victory over Agassi then Djokovic did in those losses.
Untestable claim, therefore irrelvant. We can't create time machines to put Sampras and Djokovic playing each other at the US Open.
 

clout

Hall of Fame
Nadal having twice the titles is compelling, but comparing Djokovic to Sampras at the USO is not. Sampras played substantially better in basically every victory over Agassi then Djokovic did in those losses.
Agassi still has more deep runs and facing Pete/Fed 6 times is pretty tough. Also faced Lendl twice too early in his career in the semis.
I think Andre was the “better” player at NYC but Nadal is easily the “greater” player with 4 titles compared to 2. Tbh, Djokovic, Lendl, and Agassi are farrr “better” than Nadal at the USO, but it’s hard to say they’re “greater” with lesser trophies. Titles are what matters the most at the end of the day, if making deep runs was the end all be all then LeBron is the GOAT of basketball
 

Sport

Legend
I think Andre was the “better” player at NYC but Nadal is easily the “greater” player with 4 titles compared to 2. Titles are what matters the most at the end of the day, if making deep runs was the end all be all then LeBron is the GOAT of basketball
There is no dichotomy between better and greater, as both terms are synonyms. If you have the most titles, you are the better.
 

Mitcj

New User
Just a point about McEnroe... beat Borg in two U.S. Open finals in a row which, at the time, was about as significant a feat as you can imagine. (Also beat Lendl, not a bad accomplishment - his victory over Gerulaitis, while Vitas was a good player, was his most modest finals victory.
 

Sport

Legend
Just a point about McEnroe... beat Borg in two U.S. Open finals in a row which, at the time, was about as significant a feat as you can imagine. (Also beat Lendl, not a bad accomplishment - his victory over Gerulaitis, while Vitas was a good player, was his most modest finals victory.
Borg has 0 Grand Slams on hard. Djokovic is substantially better than Borg on hard courts.
 

BGod

Legend
I’m an Agassi fan but that’d be an uphill battle. Nadal has double the amount of US Open titles and Nadal won 4 titles in 9 years (7 attempts), while Agassi won 2 in 6 years. Nadal also got the better of his biggest rival in 2 finals while Andre could never get by Pete there.
The argument begins and ends with the Anderson/Medvedev Finals & Potro/Murray beatdowns for Nadal.

Sampras is clear cut above Djokovic. So Nadal beating Novak 2 of 3 times is solid but not the same as Agassi falling to Sampras. Then you got the only bad loss by Andre in later stages being Michael Chang. His other 3 semi losses were to Lendl twice as a teen and Sampras again.

To give some reference, Nadal at age 19-21 made 1 QF losing to Blake, Youzhny & Ferrer.

It's definitely close but that's how you look at the 2 title swing. Essentially Nadal absolutely maxed out with 4 titles so far, there's no year he didn't win that he came close and 2 years you could say he got lucky by not facing better competition.

Agassi's close losses of 95 & 02 Sampras (basically a break in each may change outcome) to again a stronger opponent. He also lost in 5 to Federer in 04.
 

clout

Hall of Fame
The argument begins and ends with the Anderson/Medvedev Finals & Potro/Murray beatdowns for Nadal.

Sampras is clear cut above Djokovic. So Nadal beating Novak 2 of 3 times is solid but not the same as Agassi falling to Sampras. Then you got the only bad loss by Andre in later stages being Michael Chang. His other 3 semi losses were to Lendl twice as a teen and Sampras again.

To give some reference, Nadal at age 19-21 made 1 QF losing to Blake, Youzhny & Ferrer.

It's definitely close but that's how you look at the 2 title swing. Essentially Nadal absolutely maxed out with 4 titles so far, there's no year he didn't win that he came close and 2 years you could say he got lucky by not facing better competition.

Agassi's close losses of 95 & 02 Sampras (basically a break in each may change outcome) to again a stronger opponent. He also lost in 5 to Federer in 04.
As I said above, I strongly believe Agassi, Lendl, and Djokovic are all “better” players than Nadal at the USO but it’s hard to argue “greater” when one has the most titles. Also, with the exception of his 2 worst seasons, he’s made the semis or better every time he’s played since 2008 despite his earlier struggles. Then again, as you said, he was only 19-21 at that time so his game on faster courts was still very raw. That’s also the same age as players like Shapo, Stefanos and FAA are right now.
 

BGod

Legend
1. Nadal (stronger competition than McEnroe)
2. McEnroe
3. Djokovic (stronger competition than Lendl)
4. Lendl
5. Agassi

Nadal had to defeat twice Djokovic in the USO 2010 and USO 2013 finals. McEnroe never faced any rival as strong as Djokovic. The 2019 run also had a tough opponent. Nadal faced Medvedev in the USO 2019 final, the most in form player post-Wimbledon with 6 consecutive finals. Even in his relatively weakest draw, in the USO 2017, Nadal faced Del Potro, the same opponent Djokovic had in the USO 2018 final. Del Potro is a solid rival.

And Djokovic had to face Fedal in 2011/2015 which is stronger than anything Lendl ever faced.
Untestable claim, therefore irrelvant. We can't create time machines to put Sampras and Djokovic playing each other at the US Open.
Aren't you contradicting yourself? And if It's about titles, McEnroe faced Connors who won 5 & Lendl faced both Connors & McEnroe.

I mean, by your own logic you've seem to have played yourself friend.
 
More BS from this troll. I'm pretty sure OP is a Federer fanatic whose life was totally ruined because of Nadal. So now this 12 years old just tries to bring him down at all cost and diminish all of his achievements.

Medvedev was a VERY strong opponent in USO 2019 final (way tougher than 2018 Del Potro was for Djokovic, but of course the troll totally ignores that). Also, Nadal was injured in USO 2018 after going through a brutal draw. But of course in OP's world this is called "Nadal was destroyed by Del Potro" and that somehow plays against him. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Aren't you contradicting yourself? And if It's about titles, McEnroe faced Connors who won 5 & Lendl faced both Connors & McEnroe.

I mean, by your own logic you've seem to have played yourself friend.
Indeed Sport will comment on strength of competition when it favours Nadal but when anyone questions any slam win suddenly - "untestable therefore irrelevant" rears it's ugly contradictory head.
 
Dont forget the ultimate troll comments. Agassi with 2 USO titles was a superior USO player than Nadal haha.
This troll already wrote that Sampras is still a greater player than Nadal. And the cherry on the pie is his comment that Nadal's 11th and 12th RG titles didn't add anything to his legacy. :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

I think it's clear he is a 12 years old Federer fan who can't stop crying since USO 2019.
 

Yugram

Hall of Fame
This troll already wrote that Sampras is still a greater player than Nadal. And the cherry on the pie is his comment that Nadal's 11th and 12th RG titles didn't add anything to his legacy. :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

I think it's clear he is a 12 years old Federer fan who can't stop crying since USO 2019.
I’d say he can’t stop crying since Rome final as he seriously predicted Nadal will win 0 Big titles this year. And then Nadal won 4 out of the next 5 Big tournaments he entered. That’s what I call a failed prediction. :laughing:
 

Sport

Legend
Aren't you contradicting yourself? And if It's about titles, McEnroe faced Connors who won 5 & Lendl faced both Connors & McEnroe.

I mean, by your own logic you've seem to have played yourself friend.
Solid objection. If we can't compare competition of different eras because we can't put players of different eras playing each other, then let us look exclusively at the titles.

1. Nadal/McEnroe (tied with 4 USO titles)

2. Djokovic/Lendl (tied with 3 USO titles)

3. Agassi (2 USO titles)
 
I’d say he can’t stop crying since Rome final as he seriously predicted Nadal will win 0 Big titles this year. And then Nadal won 4 out of the next 5 Big tournaments he entered. That’s what I call a failed prediction. :laughing:
Did he really write it? I guess I missed it.
 

octogon

Professional
Nadal is top by virtue of having to take out Djokovic twice in finals to win two of his titles. Highest possible level of competition on hardcourt.

In fact, Nadal's 2019 victory may end up looking even better in retrospect, because Medvedev has the potential to be an all-time great hardcourt player judging by his season this year.

There is a decent chance Nadal ends up the US Open GOAT.
 
Mcenroe
Nadal
Lendl
Djokovic
Agassi

I also feel that Djokovic and Agassi are better players at the U.S. Open than Nadal, but don't have the trophies. Nadal is the weakest in any tie and will be on the bottom rung of tier 1 should he achieve a 5th title.
 

Sport

Legend
Mcenroe
Nadal
Lendl
Djokovic
Agassi

I also feel that Djokovic and Agassi are better players at the U.S. Open than Nadal, but don't have the trophies. Nadal is the weakest in any tie and will be on the bottom rung of tier 1 should he achieve a 5th title.
If they have less trophies, they cannot be better.
 

Sport

Legend
A time machine can only solve this. We don’t know if Federer has a higher peak at the USO than 2018 Millman because he never played him.
Fallacy of bad analogy. Millman is not an all-time great. Sampras and Djokovic are both all-time greats.
 

Sunny Ali

Hall of Fame
Connors, Pete & Roger are firmly in a class of their own at the US Open but how do you rank the 2nd tier of legends:

Nadal 4 in 5 Finals, 3 Semis
McEnroe 4 in 5 Finals (Threepeat), 3 Semis
Lendl 3 in 8 Finals (Threepeat), 1 Semi
Djokovic 3 in 8 Finals, 3 Semis
Agassi 2 in 6 Finals, 4 Semis

I know Agassi with his 2 titles sticks out like a sore thumb but arguably toughest opponents in losses of Sampras (3) & Federer in finals and Lendl twice in semis as a teen.

And of course Lendl had 8 consecutive Finals which is the record for any Slam and again tough opponents.

And with McEnroe & Lendl there's a gap with winning 3 in a row and Nadal/Novak not even having a repeat.

1. Lendl
2. McEnroe
3. Djokovic
4. Agassi
5. Nadal

Controversial I'm sure but Andre has the 1 additional Final & Semi while facing an absolute wall in later stages. Nadal has the 2 quality wins over Novak but Anderson/Medvedev is below even a Todd Martin for Agassi while getting Lendl to 4 sets alone as a teen is massive. Nadal also got obliterated by Potro twice and Andy Murray. So yeah seeing Agassi still above.
Otha, Fedrer above Nadal? LOL! They're in the same tier at the US Open.
 
I would definitely agree that playing peak Sampras on fast courts is harder than playing Djokovic at the USO. For whatever reason Nole has rarely been as good at the USO as he is in Australia even in the slower modern conditions, the exception being 2011.
 

Sport

Legend
I would definitely agree that playing peak Sampras on fast courts is harder than playing Djokovic at the USO. For whatever reason Nole has rarely been as good at the USO as he is in Australia even in the slower modern conditions, the exception being 2011.
Excuses. If Djokovic wins, he is at his peak. If Djokovic loses, he is subpar. Djokovic was perfectly fine in the USO 2010 and USO 2013 finals. He just faced an in form opponent. You can't win always in a sport.
 
Excuses. If Djokovic wins, he is at his peak. If Djokovic loses, he is subpar. Djokovic was perfectly fine in the USO 2010 and USO 2013 finals. He just faced an in form opponent. You can't win always in a sport.
You think he’s been as good as or better than peak Sampras at the Open? I’m not even talking results, the only year I was really impressed (in terms of GOAT USO performances) by him there was 2011. Another way of saying this, If I’m a competing ATG I rather face any version of Djokovic at the USO than peak Sampras or 04-07 Federer, with the possible exception of 2011.
 

BGod

Legend
More BS from this troll. I'm pretty sure OP is a Federer fanatic whose life was totally ruined because of Nadal. So now this 12 years old just tries to bring him down at all cost and diminish all of his achievements.

Medvedev was a VERY strong opponent in USO 2019 final (way tougher than 2018 Del Potro was for Djokovic, but of course the troll totally ignores that). Also, Nadal was injured in USO 2018 after going through a brutal draw. But of course in OP's world this is called "Nadal was destroyed by Del Potro" and that somehow plays against him. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Riddle me this, what's more likely:

That I've been posting on here since I was 6 or that you've won more semi-professional singles matches than me? You can call me a Federer fanboy the same way you're a Nadal fanboy. It makes no difference. Objectively speaking Nadal's USO matches as a whole have been below that of Lendl & Djokovic. And with Agassi that's a matter of opinion I can legitimately argue for (Sampras, Lendl, Federer losses, plus having Becker).

I’d say he can’t stop crying since Rome final as he seriously predicted Nadal will win 0 Big titles this year. And then Nadal won 4 out of the next 5 Big tournaments he entered. That’s what I call a failed prediction. :laughing:
A man goes into a casino and is right 30% of the time. Did he have a good day or a bad day? Depends on the money wagered.
 
Riddle me this, what's more likely:

That I've been posting on here since I was 6 or that you've won more semi-professional singles matches than me? You can call me a Federer fanboy the same way you're a Nadal fanboy. It makes no difference. Objectively speaking Nadal's USO matches as a whole have been below that of Lendl & Djokovic. And with Agassi that's a matter of opinion I can legitimately argue for (Sampras, Lendl, Federer losses, plus having Becker).



A man goes into a casino and is right 30% of the time. Did he have a good day or a bad day? Depends on the money wagered.
Fact is you can't get over Nadal having 4 USO titles. This is why you try this cherrypicking. So nice of you mentioning injured Nadal losing to Del Potro in 2018 but not mentioning Djokovic losing to NISHIKORI. And Djokovic also once lost to Murray in USO, but of course you ignore that. Well, keep hating. I guess your next thread will be about why Federer and Djokovic are better/greater players in RG than Nadal.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
USO is almost a different tournament this decade. Slowed down surface, new roof, lucky draws etc.

Fed is the king in New York for his 5 in a row on quick surface.
 

NoleFam

G.O.A.T.
Fact is you can't get over Nadal having 4 USO titles. This is why you try this cherrypicking. So nice of you mentioning injured Nadal losing to Del Potro in 2018 but not mentioning Djokovic losing to NISHIKORI. And Djokovic also once lost to Murray in USO, but of course you ignore that. Well, keep hating. I guess your next thread will be about why Federer and Djokovic are better/greater players in RG than Nadal.
You're going into dangerous territory trying to compare USO losses and seeing who has worst ones between Nadal and Djokovic. Also, you seem to forget Nadal also lost to Murray at the USO.
 
You're going into dangerous territory trying to compare USO losses and seeing who has worst ones between Nadal and Djokovic. Also, you seem to forget Nadal also lost to Murray at the USO.
This is why I wrote "And Djokovic also once lost to Murray", because OP mentioned Nadal's loss but not Djokovic's. He is clearly cherrypicking.
 
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