Rate my game and predict NTRP (video inside) PART - 2

[subz]

Comment on game and NTRP (video inside) PART - 2

Hello people,

In March 2010, I posted a video on TT and asked you guys to comment on my game and predict my NTRP rating. Here is the original thread:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=316261

I removed the video from YouTube but it’s uploaded again on this link:
March 2010 video: (I am the guy in the grey T-shirt and black shorts on the far side of the court )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bP0Pqirmwk
Some people mentioned I was a low 3.0 while others suggested I might be 4.0 or even higher.

Yesterday, I am made another video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lk3wtwrH-U&feature=feedu&fmt=18
I am the guy in the white T-shirt and on far side of the court.

Sorry for the bad quality, I plan to make another video with a better quality soon BUT I decided to upload and share this as well. I was playing with the same friend, we warmed up hitting short balls from service line and then started recording, you see the warm up from baseline and one game of the set. I had only 14 minutes of video time :/ I won 6-2. The game starts around 5:50 mark.

Please comment on my game and my NTRP has changed. I am obsessed with NTRP because I will be relocating and it is easier to find players if you can mention what level you are and are looking for.

Thanks!

EDIT: I am playing with an nBlade 98 with Luxilon Alu Power Rought strings @ 55 lbs

 

[subz]

I am working on the following now:
1. movement
2. backhand : both slice and topspin
and

3. Serve ( I apparently hit some foot faults, I need to jump and push with my legs more ...)

 

[Zachol82]

I'm think you're 4.0-4.5.

I do like your strokes but most of them are landing at the service line, which is quite short imo.

There's really no valid reason to hit a topspin that short to be honest, since the high bounce from the topspin will reach your opponent at the baseline at perfect height for him. Actually, there is one reason I can think of, and that is angle. Unless you're hitting extreme angle, there should be no reason why your topspin shots are landing at the service line or even closer to the net.

If it was a slice or a low flat, I would understand, since your opponent WILL have to move forward to get to it and this makes it a good technique to lure someone up to the net.

I like what I see though! Keep it up!

 

[subz]

I'm think you're 4.0-4.5.

I do like your strokes but most of them are landing at the service line, which is quite short imo.

There's really no valid reason to hit a topspin that short to be honest, since the high bounce from the topspin will reach your opponent at the baseline at perfect height for him. Actually, there is one reason I can think of, and that is angle. Unless you're hitting extreme angle, there should be no reason why your topspin shots are landing at the service line or even closer to the net.

If it was a slice or a low flat, I would understand, since your opponent WILL have to move forward to get to it and this makes it a good technique to lure someone up to the net.

I like what I see though! Keep it up!

Thanks for the comments. When I play, I do hit a lot of short angles, so hitting short helps there. But I agree, hitting deep is very important, I can control the depth pretty well on my forehand side....

 

[mightyrick]

I'm think you're 4.0-4.5.

I do like your strokes but most of them are landing at the service line, which is quite short imo.

There's really no valid reason to hit a topspin that short to be honest, since the high bounce from the topspin will reach your opponent at the baseline at perfect height for him. Actually, there is one reason I can think of, and that is angle. Unless you're hitting extreme angle, there should be no reason why your topspin shots are landing at the service line or even closer to the net.

If it was a slice or a low flat, I would understand, since your opponent WILL have to move forward to get to it and this makes it a good technique to lure someone up to the net.

I like what I see though! Keep it up!

^^^^^ This.

I think you are a 4.0 based on what I saw. I'd like to have seen more of the match to see how varied your skills are. I don't think you're 4.5.

BTW... a very nice get at the 8:00 mark. Not an all out winner, but a nice get nonetheless.

The forehand doesn't seem penetrating enough -- or with enough pace -- for a 4.5. Also, your serve seems to be pretty labored and not enough pace. I didn't see any touch drop shots or volleys, either. That makes it hard to tell. So I'll just say 4.0.

I think if you can get your forehand more penetrating (hopefully just by adding pace) and get your first serve where it needs to be, you're might make a 4.5. Although, I'd personally like to see if you have any volley ability.

 

[equinox]

you're consistent and relatively speedy. so that puts you at 3.0.

you hit the ball way to short on service line and serves don't enough bite off the court for 4.0

you need to buy some proper tennis gear.

the guy in white is ok 4.0, though he needs to stop running around bh and trying so hard to hit nadal fh.

just as a comparison.

here's what the average 2.75-3.25 player looks like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bmW0bhH4Ps&feature=related

 

[mightyrick]

you're consistent and relatively speedy. so that puts you at 3.0.

you hit the ball way to short on service line and serves don't enough bite off the court for 4.0

you need to dump the cute red getup (nice ass and buy some proper tennis gear.

the guy in white is ok 4.0, though he needs to stop running around bh and trying so hard to hit nadal fh.

just as a comparison.

here's what the average 2.75-3.25 player looks like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bmW0bhH4Ps&feature=related

I think you're underrating here. His forehand and backhand are way better than any 2.75-3.25 player.

This is what everyman's 2.75-3.25 looks like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1UaA1xZSb8

OP is much better than that.

 

[subz]

you're consistent and relatively speedy. so that puts you at 3.0.

you hit the ball way to short on service line and serves don't enough bite off the court for 4.0



you need to dump the cute red getup (nice ass and buy some proper tennis gear.

the guy in white is ok 4.0, though he needs to stop running around bh and trying so hard to hit nadal just as a compar
here's what the average 2.75-3.25 player looks like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bmW0bhH4Ps&feature=related

Dude !!! I am the guy in white !!!! :/ Nadal like forehand ????? :evil:

 

[fruitytennis1]

equinox is either joking or an idiot soo...
You probably high 3.5 low 4.0.

 

[equinox]

Dude !!! I am the guy in white !!!! :/ Nadal like forehand ????? :evil:

congratulations, i pronounce you 4.0 level. be happy.

 

[ark_28]

You have some really promising swings and take good cuts at the ball, I feel you maybe you could stay down with the ball a little longer particuarly on the backhand your weight sometimes goes back at the point of contact and that will lose you some power and accuracy!
But a lot to work with there

 

[subz]

You have some really promising swings and take good cuts at the ball, I feel you maybe you could stay down with the ball a little longer particuarly on the backhand your weight sometimes goes back at the point of contact and that will lose you some power and accuracy!
But a lot to work with there

Yes, I should be getting more weight into the shot. I have to work on leaning a bit more and taking the ball earlier.

 

[LeeD]

4.0 in my book, too many low misses and short shots for 4.5.
Would turning your shoulders earlier on your forehand help with power and consistency? Your 1hbh is nice.

 

[cork_screw]

Your opponent is playing so badly, it's making you look extra good. If I played your partner I would be 7.0

 

[subz]

Your opponent is playing so badly, it's making you look extra good. If I played your partner I would be 7.0

I think he is okay , since we are friends we play for fun He is usually very quick on the court. I also play in our college league where I have a very decent record.

I think on video the game looks slower than it is...

 

[Fugazi]

I'd say 3.5

 

[5263]

You probably high 3.5 low 4.0.

Stroke quality I think fruity has it pretty close above.
I think you are a guy that 4.0s will love to play : )

 

[LeeD]

"upon further review"....
I gotta UP my ratings of your play! :shock::shock: You show remarkable skill in hitting straight up the middle almost every time, solid and firm shots. While your partner is running you ragged, you hit right back to him, meaning you have ball control, a strong mind, and probably play tough mentally.
Kudos!
I'm sorry I rated you so low.
You guys should demonstrate your skills by hitting only sharp CC in the singles courts, or backhand to forehand DTL's only, to impress us onlookers.
A more specific hitting target is always good for both your games.

 

[jdubbs]

You really have to post some match play, it's hard to tell from a low key rally video. You have 4.0 strokes, the question is how well can you execute in a match against, say, a 3.5 pusher?

 

[subz]

"upon further review"....
I gotta UP my ratings of your play! :shock::shock: You show remarkable skill in hitting straight up the middle almost every time, solid and firm shots. While your partner is running you ragged, you hit right back to him, meaning you have ball control, a strong mind, and probably play tough mentally.
Kudos!
I'm sorry I rated you so low.
You guys should demonstrate your skills by hitting only sharp CC in the singles courts, or backhand to forehand DTL's only, to impress us onlookers.
A more specific hitting target is always good for both your games.

I was hitting at him because we were warming up and I feel that most shots in a warm up should be directed towards the hitting partner . CC and DTL is a good idea, I do those with more advance players and in the courses I took. My friend will bring a better camera next time and I will hopefully post those drills here.

Thanks for the comments

 

[subz]

You really have to post some match play, it's hard to tell from a low key rally video. You have 4.0 strokes, the question is how well can you execute in a match against, say, a 3.5 pusher?

Yeah, I had only 14 mins of video in my crappy camera and I wasted most on the warm up phase, but the first service game of the match is here. It starts at 5:50 mark.

 

[dozu]

2 words - human racket !

 

[subz]

2 words - human racket !

Hi dozu, I am sorry but I dont get the reference "human racket". What is it suppose to mean ?

 

[dozu]

your arm is swinging the racket (incorrect) instead of being swung by the body (correct)

 

[subz]

your arm is swinging the racket (incorrect) instead of being swung by the body (correct)

I do rotate by upper body ...

 

[dozu]

not enough, and that's why you dumped several high FHs into the net.

the arm is doing the wrong thing, it's actively trying to swing the racket, instead of passively being swung by the body.

when the arm gets active, it gets ahead of the rotation of the body, it crashes into the rib case (especially on high FH), causing forearm to flip over and dump the ball into the net.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjBXVQyiwg

what is roger's arm doing in this video?

keep this question in mind in the future when you watch pro matches... you will have a whole new perspective of the tennis swing.

 

[Totai]

you are clearly a 6.0

 

[HunterST]

2 words - human racket !

Dozu: The story of how one tennis tip morphed into a sad tale of obsession.

 

[dozu]

^^^ like I said in another thread.

take it or
leave it or
show your face and THEN discredit it.

Miao.

 

[HunterST]

^^^ like I said in another thread.

take it or
leave it or
show your face and THEN discredit it.

Miao.

It was a joke, touchy. If you can't take that mild of a joke then don't post advice on the internet.

 

[dozu]

It was a joke, touchy. If you can't take that mild of a joke then don't post advice on the internet.

okie dokie... it's the internet's fault.... without facial expressions and lingual tones, it's difficult to decipher a joke.

peace.

 

[shindemac]

Good groundstrokes. Serve needs lots of work. There's no pace, placement, or spin. 4.5 players would eat up your serve. At higher levels, you can't win if you can't hold serve. I rate 4.0.

It looks like you're good enough to place your serve. Why aren't you taking advantage of the first serve? You're always serving it down the middle.

 

[escii_35]

Nothing in your game screams 4.5. I vote 4.0 though you may be able to get away with sandbagging at 3.5 if your volleys/overheads are really chumpy.

 

[subz]

It looks like you're good enough to place your serve. Why aren't you taking advantage of the first serve? You're always serving it down the middle.

It was the begining of the match, if you notice I serve only two practice serves and tell my hitting partner the match has begun.
I can place my serve, especially if I want to hit backhand side of a right handed player on the both sides of the court, something I should have demonstrated in the video :/

I hit a better slice and topspin server than a flatter serve....

 

[dr325i]

For those that rated the strokes (not the match play = real rating) under 4.0, please post yours, lets see them...or even better, YOU should see them on video!

- DOZU is right, not much shoulder/body rotation
- it is a warm-up video, not much of moving, cannot really tell the exact level
- The racket speed on serves is low, looks like the technique is good, though hard to see
- net game?
- I disagree(to some extend) with the short balls comment as it seems that your balls keep the opponent behind the base line. When playing points (toward the end of the video) , the balls seem to land deeper...

3.0 cannot be that consistent and cannot hit serves like that, especially 2nd serve...

 

[subz]

- DOZU is right, not much shoulder/body rotation
- it is a warm-up video, not much of moving, cannot really tell the exact level
- The racket speed on serves is low, looks like the technique is good, though hard to see
- net game?

Thanks DOZU and dr325i ! Yes, I should incorportate more upper body rotation, I used to hit old-school like forehand in which i rotate sideways and my left foot was ahead of right. I will try to do this in my next session.

I am working on the timing of my serve, I need more push from the legs and have to swing in a way that the racquet face opens to the ball at the last time. I think when I can do this, the serve is faster.

My net game is not great but in a game, if my approach shot is fine, I usually win the point. Have to post net game as well.

 

[only4theweak187]

Learn to take the ball early.

 

[HunterST]

I really don't think a game can be "rated" by watching strokes, or even by watching match play. Sure, you can see errors in stroke mechanics and/or strategy and get a ball park, but the only way to make an accurate NTRP rating is to experience playing with or against them. Guys can have ugly strokes and still succeed at levels much higher than the appearance of their strokes would have you believe.

 

[dozu]

Thanks DOZU and dr325i ! Yes, I should incorportate more upper body rotation, I used to hit old-school like forehand in which i rotate sideways and my left foot was ahead of right. I will try to do this in my next session.

I am working on the timing of my serve, I need more push from the legs and have to swing in a way that the racquet face opens to the ball at the last time. I think when I can do this, the serve is faster.

My net game is not great but in a game, if my approach shot is fine, I usually win the point. Have to post net game as well.

because the arm is more susceptible to collide with the chest when it's raised high, the old school strokes usually have difficulty with high kicking balls. but you can still deal with it in 2 ways....

1 - saw somebody on youtube recommending moving the contact point a little backward, to about parallel to your body.. this could work, but against really kicking balls, this is not a strong position.

2 - I hit a lot of closed/neutral stance shots against high balls, but I let my arm fly over my head to avoid the collision.

 

[Djokovicfan4life]

^^^ like I said in another thread.

take it or
leave it or
show your face and THEN discredit it.

Miao.

This "human racquet" stuff may help some people in some cases, but just parroting it in every thread is not the answer to everyone's problems. Personally, the "human racquet" concept doesn't help me in the slightest.

 

[dozu]

i think you are supporting me.

because it may help some, so I have to 'parrot' it, hope it does.. and since it didn't help you... you can take the 'leave it' option, which is totally cool.

and the reason that I am parroting it, is not my fault... these 'me hitting' videos all show up with similar issues, because we all go thru the stage where we instinctively try to hit the ball... so you swing the racket to hit it, right? it sounds so logical... and that is exactly the root of the problem.

 

[HunterST]

i think you are supporting me.

because it may help some, so I have to 'parrot' it, hope it does.. and since it didn't help you... you can take the 'leave it' option, which is totally cool.

and the reason that I am parroting it, is not my fault... these 'me hitting' videos all show up with similar issues, because we all go thru the stage where we instinctively try to hit the ball... so you swing the racket to hit it, right? it sounds so logical... and that is exactly the root of the problem.

hmm. Not real sure about that. It's human nature to see what you're looking for, and no offense, but you're probably looking for your advice to be right. I think you're probably correct that most players go through a phase where they try to muscle the ball too much. However, I really don't think all of the guys you've posted this advice to have been guilty of it.

 

[dozu]

i am not looking for anything.

 

[HunterST]

i am not looking for anything.

Can I ask you something that has been bugging me? Don't take this the wrong way. You said you have a good record against some tough competition so you're apparently a good player, but do you think you are somewhat guilty of the flaws you point out in other people's strokes? I can't help but notice you get a pretty small amount of core rotation and lower body into the ball. Again, no offense, your strokes don't look bad or anything, but a lot of times when you post that a player's "arm is detached from their body" I can't help but think "gee his strokes seem to be a lot of arm too."

 

[peoplespeace]

by the way dozu, what is ur level? Ur linking to a youtubevid showcasing urself and ur hitting no high ball on ur forehand but instead letting them drop to almost knee hight and u dont hit one single ball with pace or strength.

 

[dozu]

Can I ask you something that has been bugging me? Don't take this the wrong way. You said you have a good record against some tough competition so you're apparently a good player, but do you think you are somewhat guilty of the flaws you point out in other people's strokes? I can't help but notice you get a pretty small amount of core rotation and lower body into the ball. Again, no offense, your strokes don't look bad or anything, but a lot of times when you post that a player's "arm is detached from their body" I can't help but think "gee his strokes seem to be a lot of arm too."

somebody else pointed this out in a different thread (I think it was arche3), and I explained there.

I can hit 'standard' WW fh just fine, but my own body type doesnt quite like it, so I modified it to suit myself... if you watch again... I have a deeper shoulder turn than 'standard' during the backswing, and less core rotation than 'standard' during the forward swing.... but if you count from the end of my backturn to the end of my follow thru, it's still close to 180 degrees, which is what the 'standard' should be, and that rotation is indeed around my spine, not the shoulder.

because of this type of body turn, my contact point is more to the side, while the standard is more forward.

As a result, I don't want to have the arm go around me... rather, I prefer to let it fly over my head... my swing path is also more steep than the standard, due to 20 or so years of playing ping pong since I was 8..... so my power comes from the turn.... but in my video, I did not add forearm power, because i don't want the video to turn into 'how to pick up balls'.... the forearm power prolly wont add much velocity, but I estimate will make the ball 40% heavier due to spin.

so in summary, there is a much bigger arm swing component to the eye, however that arm swing is not powered by the arm itself, it's powered by the body turn, plus the steep free fall from a quite high back swing.

Edit - forgot to mention the legs - since the contact is more to my side, the swing do feel with a lot of classical linear fh type of action in it... so there is less loading/unloading from the leg.... plus it was just some easy hitting, so the free fall from the top already provided enough power.

 

[dozu]

by the way dozu, what is ur level? Ur linking to a youtubevid showcasing urself and ur hitting no high ball on ur forehand but instead letting them drop to almost knee hight and u dont hit one single ball with pace or strength.

see explanation above... in the video I was prolly at 50% power level... otherwise it would be more boring to watch.

by the way, even if I hit 100% power, it still won't look big enough to most... power is not my strong suit.. my strength is consistency, anticipation, and analysis of the other guys swing flaws.. and due to my profession, I am also very good at gauging the psychological aspect... I can feel very well if the other player is euphoric, or nervous, or tight, or complacent, or angry..... this is also a huge advantage, with tennis being such a mental sport.

 

[Manus Domini]

Wow that's in depth ability. How do you exploit those weaknesses or learn how to exploit them?

 

[subz]

dozu thanks for hijacking my thread

 

[dozu]

Wow that's in depth ability. How do you exploit those weaknesses or learn how to exploit them?

there are many many nuances on case to case basis on different opponents.... but usually boil down to the stuff I have been posting..

does he swing the human racket? if not, then he will have consistency issues, e.g. high FH, and timing issues, e.g. against skidding slices

does he have good tempo? if not, then he will have movement issues - will be tough for him to stay in balance while moving around

and then extend these 2 questions to his fh, bh, volleys, returns... so at the recreational level, it's quite easy to find a bunch for those weekend hackers... but the better guys I play against, like star recruits or former college guys, usually have only 1 or 2 that are 'screaming flaws' to my eyes...

The psychological aspect is even more case to case... base on the players age, his demeaner etc, if you practice, you can 'read' what he is thinking.... so if the guy is hot on something, like certain strokes or hitting patterns, you do the best you can to avoid or break that pattern.... if you sense the guy is cold on something, you press harder on the gas pedal to put more pressure on that pain point...

then you gotta see the conditions, where the wind is blowing, if he is bothered by the sun etc.... some common sense stuff that many don't pay attention to.