Rating range NTRP 4.0

ChaelAZ

Legend
So this is based on what is posted as NTRP 4.0. Interesting to see the variety of levels and styles. All respect to the players as I know some post here, so this is just a neat example to see the kind of variety and differneces that move players up and down in levels.

To me, obviously at the top would be 4.0 Nationals players. You can assume these are the top 4.0's and most likely borerline or in 4.5 now.



The rest of these are in no particular order...




This is a very cool example of style differences feature our own @BallBag




Mike posted this 4.0 and mentions the difference betwen sections and ratings. Good 4.0 tennis though.




Da man, AdamC who battled his way through 3.5 to 4.0 this last year.




Marked as consistency vs. power, that's spot on.

https://youtu.be/jIaSurSqsYo


Last one

https://youtu.be/YTRnffdQABA




Just some examples that I have watched.
 

tomato123

Professional
Yes... my experience also is that competitive 4.0 is a jungle out there but to me that's a part of the fun and challenge as well. You never know what you're gonna get! Until you start playing the same people in your league, but even then there's so much variation :)
 

undecided

Semi-Pro
So this is based on what is posted as NTRP 4.0. Interesting to see the variety of levels and styles. All respect to the players as I know some post here, so this is just a neat example to see the kind of variety and differneces that move players up and down in levels.

To me, obviously at the top would be 4.0 Nationals players. You can assume these are the top 4.0's and most likely borerline or in 4.5 now.



The rest of these are in no particular order...




This is a very cool example of style differences feature our own @BallBag




Mike posted this 4.0 and mentions the difference betwen sections and ratings. Good 4.0 tennis though.




Da man, AdamC who battled his way through 3.5 to 4.0 this last year.




Marked as consistency vs. power, that's spot on.

https://youtu.be/jIaSurSqsYo


Last one

https://youtu.be/YTRnffdQABA




Just some examples that I have watched.
1st video, in the warm-up the guys were hitting a good ball and then during point play they turned into moon ballers. WTH?
 

FiReFTW

Legend
1st video, in the warm-up the guys were hitting a good ball and then during point play they turned into moon ballers. WTH?
Didn't watch video but its a common occurance.

When warming up ur loose and relaxed, when match starts some people get very tight and nervious, specailly if its a final, so if ur not as loose anymore its hard to accelerate alot and get that whip and spin, so its common to start slowing down a bit more and hitting bigger arcs.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Ok I just watched a few mins of video 1, where is the moonballing exactly @undecided ? They are crushing the ball lol... and even when hitting higher arcs theres alot of acceleration and spin on the ball.

Typical tennis warehouse, any ball that has a higher arc is a moonball, even if it has heavy spin lol.

Amazing level of play btw, ive never seen 4.0 level look remotely as good on any youtube video and i watched many, they really are 4.5 by the looks of it.
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
Amazing level of play btw, ive never seen 4.0 level look remotely as good on any youtube video and i watched many, they really are 4.5 by the looks of it.

At Nationals that is the top players in the rating, for the most part. So they should be/are 4.5 caliber. They both most likely got bumped.
 

sredna42

Hall of Fame
I assume the guys in the first video were promoted to 4.5 the following day.
Orange tellytubby never split steps from what i watched. Yet plays a pretty good game of tennis.

Pretty sad that they both died from anaphylaxis later that day when they saw someone hit a slice on the court next door.
 
C

Chadalina

Guest
Ntrp should only be used for social matches. Its pretty pathetic when people play down.

Bring back the pro's rating and this crap will end.
 

dimkin

Hall of Fame
Ntrp should only be used for social matches. Its pretty pathetic when people play down.

Bring back the pro's rating and this crap will end.
well ... USTA4.0 in NYC is full of legit 4.5s, and USTA4.5 is ridiculous - u got former college players there up to Div 2
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
So this is based on what is posted as NTRP 4.0. Interesting to see the variety of levels and styles. All respect to the players as I know some post here, so this is just a neat example to see the kind of variety and differneces that move players up and down in levels.

To me, obviously at the top would be 4.0 Nationals players. You can assume these are the top 4.0's and most likely borerline or in 4.5 now.



The rest of these are in no particular order...




This is a very cool example of style differences feature our own @BallBag




Mike posted this 4.0 and mentions the difference betwen sections and ratings. Good 4.0 tennis though.




Da man, AdamC who battled his way through 3.5 to 4.0 this last year.




Marked as consistency vs. power, that's spot on.

https://youtu.be/jIaSurSqsYo


Last one

https://youtu.be/YTRnffdQABA




Just some examples that I have watched.
Dude that looks like Sureshs in the 1st one. He finally got good and stopped hitting the buffets all the time.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Just watched the first 2 guys and they look like solid 4.0 level players, but not much different than a lot of the 4.0 players I’ve watched in the indoor league at my club. I would consider them strong 4.0 level but not 4.5.
 

mightyrick

Legend
Those players in the first video are definitely nationals NTRP 4.0 team members -- which means they are huge sandbaggers and are actually 4.5s. Sandbagging is far easier with USTA team tennis because of the ability for stacking across singles and doubles -- combined with maybe bringing on a self-rated ringer.

Personally, I think USTA nationals are pretty much a joke. Stacking and sandbagging still goes on at local and sectional levels, but within a section... at least the playing levels are somewhat equivalent within that section.
 

undecided

Semi-Pro
Ok I just watched a few mins of video 1, where is the moonballing exactly @undecided ? They are crushing the ball lol... and even when hitting higher arcs theres alot of acceleration and spin on the ball.

Typical tennis warehouse, any ball that has a higher arc is a moonball, even if it has heavy spin lol.

Amazing level of play btw, ive never seen 4.0 level look remotely as good on any youtube video and i watched many, they really are 4.5 by the looks of it.
Its funny, the orange shirt guy does it, the other guy does not. I hit very similar ball to the orange guy and 2 of my hitting partners complain about the arc of the ball :)
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Those players in the first video are definitely nationals NTRP 4.0 team members -- which means they are huge sandbaggers and are actually 4.5s. Sandbagging is far easier with USTA team tennis because of the ability for stacking across singles and doubles -- combined with maybe bringing on a self-rated ringer.

Personally, I think USTA nationals are pretty much a joke. Stacking and sandbagging still goes on at local and sectional levels, but within a section... at least the playing levels are somewhat equivalent within that section.
This is pretty much how it is in USTA the best sandbaggers win. But there is a wide range of talent at the 4.0 level and if you are getting down to the top 4.0 guys in the nation then I can see these guys being legit. To me they are strong 4.0 level but not 4.5.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Show me some videos of NYC 4.0? If they are that good how come they aren't playing at the USTA national 4.0? Too good to mess around with USTA?
I agree dimkin is way off on his assessment of what level these players are. 3.5 lol
 

SDCHRIS

New User
You posted a video with a 4.5 player. That doesn't count. Without telling me they are 4.5, I would have put them at the upper 4.0 to lower, very low 4.5 range.
They are better than most of the players in the video the OP posted. Comparing to the 1st video of the OP I don't see a huge difference which would make you rate them 3.5. From you video, the two are good hitters but I only saw a few good rallies like at 5:00. Else most points ends after 3-4 shots with a UE. Both players have weak net games. Unless you saying everybody in NYC is at this level for 4.0(which I highly doubt) then you are correct. Anyway you posted a 4.5 player, doesn't count.
 

dimkin

Hall of Fame
You posted a video with a 4.5 player. That doesn't count. Without telling me they are 4.5, I would have put them at the upper 4.0 to lower, very low 4.5 range.
They are better than most of the players in the video the OP posted. Comparing to the 1st video of the OP I don't see a huge difference which would make you rate them 3.5. From you video, the two are good hitters but I only saw a few good rallies like at 5:00. Else most points ends after 3-4 shots with a UE. Both players have weak net games. Unless you saying everybody in NYC is at this level for 4.0(which I highly doubt) then you are correct. Anyway you posted a 4.5 player, doesn't count.
(I am the one in the dark shirt)
My opponent (in the hat) is a pusher-type 4.5, he has deep dependable strokes, good angles. In particular what separates him from strong 4.0s is his BIG first serve and very annoying kick 2nd serve.
Also his consistent depth never gave me much to come in on, and when I did manage to come in, he made me hit tough balls or outright passed me. His net game is weak, making him move north south is
a good strategy, but I lack the feel :( I play most of my ladder matches against 4.5s, but USTA - 4.0. And USTA 4.0 is full of sandbagging 4.5s

" the 1st video of the OP " yes these guys are on the stronger side of the videos posted and are definitely solid 4.0s (not the other vids though).
 
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SDCHRIS

New User
Ok the truth comes out. It's not that NYC have better USTA players, it's that most are sandbaggers. Therefore if the players in the OP were to play in NYC USTA they will have to play in the 3.5 level because of the sandbaggers. That makes more sense.
 

dimkin

Hall of Fame
Ok the truth comes out. It's not that NYC have better USTA players, it's that most are sandbaggers. Therefore if the players in the OP were to play in NYC USTA they will have to play in the 3.5 level because of the sandbaggers. That makes more sense.
I once played in a doubles game against a 3.5 team that went to Nationals ... granted I am mostly a singles player as was my partner ... (a strong 4.0 singles guy).

We were convincingly beaten ... that's 3.5 for ya ...
 

dimkin

Hall of Fame
Were you "beaten"? Or did you lose through poor play and bad tactics?
tactics mostly ... all the returns patterns were wrong ... all the angles and instincts... now that I've played a lot more doubles I realize that we both played like singles dumb-asses ...
but those 3.5 dubs guys were no pushovers ... my guess is the only reasons they were 3.5 is due to imbalance ... i.e. strong fh, but only lob backhand ...
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
I have never watched human beings walk slower in a tennis match between points in my life. It was painful. Had you guys just finished running the NYC marathon?

7 minutes walking around, serve, return into the net, 7 minutes walking around, DF, seven minutes walking around.
I agree I hate playing guys that don’t play at a decent pace, especially when I’m paying for indoor court time.
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
Just FYI. The guys in the first video above are at nationals for a World Team Tennis 4.0 team. That does not mean they are USTA 4.0 players. That’s not how WTT works. Both are actually 4.5 and the older guy in the orange-ish shirt is a teaching pro, if I remember correctly. Regardless, they are not USTA 4.0 players, even for nationals.
 
J

Jhreamer

Guest
Very interesting. I enjoy seeing the radically different forms used by people at this (rangey) level. Thus far I've only tended to see video of higher-level players with technique that becomes more homogenized. For good reason, granted, but the individuality at this level is an intriguing watch.

And yeah, definitely fun to watch Adam's serve-and-volley game. Haven't played against that style yet; don't get to see much footage of it from court level view.
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
Very interesting. I enjoy seeing the radically different forms used by people at this (rangey) level. Thus far I've only tended to see video of higher-level players with technique that becomes more homogenized. For good reason, granted, but the individuality at this level is an intriguing watch.

And yeah, definitely fun to watch Adam's serve-and-volley game. Haven't played against that style yet; don't get to see much footage of it from court level view.
A long, long time ago everyone played that style.
 

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
I once played in a doubles game against a 3.5 team that went to Nationals ... granted I am mostly a singles player as was my partner ... (a strong 4.0 singles guy).

We were convincingly beaten ... that's 3.5 for ya ...
Thats totally normal. I played double once with 2 old guys (50s), very savvy, but probably 3.5 due to poor movement. My partner was also a pretty good 4.0.
We were brutally beaten 1-6 0-6.
You improved a lot dimkin. Very nice.
 
J

Jhreamer

Guest
A long, long time ago everyone played that style.
Yeah, it's a shame for many reasons, of course. One being that almost all top-level specialists left the game or fell away before the digital age exploded, barring their trainings and practices from being shared online like everyone else's and their brothers'.
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
Seems like it's in the ballpark. These guys look like they can play quite well but can also often be inconsistent. Guy in the black looks like the better player.
 

baowow

New User
Most rec players usually think they are way better than they actually are. Better players will sandbag to play on a team with friends for fun. NTRP ratings doesn't have too much meaning anymore...i'm a 3.75 :)
 
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