Re-starting Arizona State men's tennis

Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by Golden_state_of_mind, Oct 3, 2013.

  1. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus Talk Tennis Guru

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    800 ?? that is way too high for foreign player that can hardly speak English. more like 200 would be fair...
     
    #51
  2. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    800 is the combination of reading and math. You get 200 points on each section for signing your name.
     
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  3. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus Talk Tennis Guru

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    Exactly,,, if you can sign your name, you Qualify for college in USA.......
     
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  4. Doubles

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    That's how you got into Standford, right?
     
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    #54
  5. andfor

    andfor Legend

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    I have a S.A. friend who played DII tennis in Nebraska, might have been NAIA back then. Transferred to a Colorado School of Mines to finish his tennis and complete his Petro Engineering degree. He's now a VP at a major oil company. Darn good player too. BTW, came to America as an exchange student, ended up in rural Nebraska, loved soccer first, but the H.S. he went to did not have it, so his family took him to the football coach. He ended up their FG kicker that year, HAHA. Even got some looks by colleges as a kicker. All sort of paths out there kids, not just at the big DI schools.
     
    #55
  6. andfor

    andfor Legend

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    Forgot to add. So much for the super coach ASU thought they might hire, like a Roddick (Andy or John), Todd Martin, etc. Supposedly that was their goal, to hire some marquee name that most anyone would know. Good luck to them and Steinberg.
     
    #56
  7. Nacho

    Nacho Professional

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    we are joking....
     
    #57
  8. PJ Lynn

    PJ Lynn New User

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    The Adam Steinberg who is one of only 4 head coaches to win a National Championship in the last 10 years? Or the Adam Steinberg who coached the only non-Power 5 school to a National Championship in the last 40 years?

    I bet he'll do just fine there, especially with the support from the ITA.
     
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    #58
  9. andfor

    andfor Legend

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    He's a good hire, not saying he's not and agree he'll likely do well. Just a far cry from ASU's rumored pursuit of a household name, that's all.
     
    #59
  10. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    If they want to recruit non-tennis players, then I guess they need to hire Andy Roddick or Pete Sampras or Andre Agassi, because even non-tennis fans have heard of them. If they want to recruit junior tennis players, then Steinberg can list his credentials in 60 seconds or less and be more impressive than anyone else that Arizona State actually had a chance to hire.
     
    #60
  11. Collegetennisrules

    Collegetennisrules Rookie

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    Great hire by ASU. Watch and see what he does with the program.
     
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  12. Collegetennisrules

    Collegetennisrules Rookie

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    Oh wait....watch what he does back at Michigan.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
    #62
  13. Oddyssey

    Oddyssey Rookie

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    #63
  14. Nacho

    Nacho Professional

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    #64
  15. illzoni

    illzoni Rookie

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    The ASU athletics department is a train wreck.
     
    #65
  16. Collegetennisrules

    Collegetennisrules Rookie

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    ASU is one of the best athletic departments out there. They will make a huge hire soon.
     
    #66
  17. Nacho

    Nacho Professional

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    Agree, I can't imagine the ITA would set up camp there if it was a disastrous athletic department. Sucks they had to start off like this I am sure they will find someone else just as qualified
     
    #67
  18. PJ Lynn

    PJ Lynn New User

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    Or maybe he didn't want the ITA to dictate to him how to run his program...
     
    #68
  19. Nacho

    Nacho Professional

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    Probably some truth to that statement....A lot of money floating around just for tennis
     
    #69
  20. andfor

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    You threw in there Sampras and Agassi. I was tossing out examples, maybe not the best ones, but there's some big tennis names still in the game they might be able to hire. I'm not saying that's the right path. Personally I'd rather see them hire a good assistant or mid-major type coach looking to move up or former successful college coach looking to get back in the coaching ranks.

    Given Steinberg is a big name in college tennis, now that he's reneged we'll get to see what ASU's second choice is.
     
    #70
  21. Nacho

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    I am surprised they haven't gone after the Oklahoma State coaches....
     
    #71
  22. Collegetennisrules

    Collegetennisrules Rookie

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    Yeah good call, don't want one of the best coaches in the country who already has won a national championship at a non-BCS school. Makes complete sense to me. Doesn't matter now because he is staying at Michigan.
     
    #72
  23. illzoni

    illzoni Rookie

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    I admit I'm an Arizona Wildcats fan and am biased, but I don't believe this is accurate. A lot of what I read about ASU is tinged by rivalry, but the fumbling by their AD is clear.

    I can think of several factors:
    1) Location: year-round tennis, not at the premium price of SoCal or Florida;
    2) Transit: Phoenix is an affordable air destination and not completely cross country (but nearly so) from anywhere;
    3) Negotiating position: As I've asserted, a subpar AD would be easier to push around at the negotiating table.
     
    #73
  24. andfor

    andfor Legend

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    Hey I agree with Clark that Steinberg was a good hire from a college coaching perspective and would be known among prospective juniors for recruiting purposes. Just not a household name they supposedly were after. Just a rumor I had heard from folks close to the program. Regardless, he backed out. Who really knows what the heck is going on there. Bottom line is it's really a good thing ASU is bringing back mens tennis. They have a little time to find someone, will be interesting to see who their next choice is.
     
    #74
  25. TopDawg

    TopDawg G.O.A.T.

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    South Florida's Matt Hill just accepted the job - release
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016
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  26. tennis7777777

    tennis7777777 Rookie

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    Little surprised hill would want to be second pick, maybe he was even third, will be interesting to see what he can do with a bcs job
     
    #76
  27. andfor

    andfor Legend

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    Hill is a very strong hire for ASU. He'll take them very high. I see top 20 and top 10 being a regularity with them.
     
    #77
  28. Nacho

    Nacho Professional

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    Yup, I agree with those, but there are other places you could go that are similar. I think number 3 and the money behind the restart probably helped rather then messing with an established program.
     
    #78
  29. illzoni

    illzoni Rookie

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    Definitely.
     
    #79
  30. Tennis_monster21

    Tennis_monster21 Rookie

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    Anyone know if they have any recruits yet? What's the latest?
     
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  31. OZ88

    OZ88 New User

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    Benjamin Hannestad (ITF 45 / UTR 13.96) will go with Matt to Arizona. Matt should be getting players at that level no problem.
     
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  32. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    He got a wildcard into the Tempe Challenger that's going on this week
     
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  33. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus Talk Tennis Guru

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    How Is Arizona state doing this year ?? they used to be very very good team in Pac-12. they always competed well in Ojai as well.
     
    #83
  34. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    The rise of the Sun Devils will be pretty quick. They already have 3 guys committed with a UTR above 14 and one who is very close to that

    Michael Geerts, Belgium, 14.43
    Benjamin Hannestad, Denmark, 14.35
    Andrea Bolla, Italy, 14.29
    Mandresy Rakotomalala, France, 13.92
     
    #84
  35. jcgatennismom

    jcgatennismom Rookie

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    Will the university be able to recruit other players with those 4-wont that use up most of their 4.5 scholarships? Or do the Europeans usually get merit aid too so their full ride is 75% athletic 25% merit which would leave some $ on the table for the rest of the roster? Or will ASU finish out the roster with relatively cheap in state players? I assume from your posts you have worked in athletic depts. It seems a lot of public universities balance their recruiting budget with 4-6 high scholarship internationals and then fill in the rest with talented in state players who will play for in state tuition, some merit, and 0-20% athletic $.
     
    #85
  36. Nacho

    Nacho Professional

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    I think thats pretty much it....Depending on the school, or maybe not, foreign players qualify for a grant which I think is tied to their English abilities. I know many schools, if they have the money, mix and match these into the scholarships. They also might qualify for some academic aid, the more a coach can use other aid the more they can spread the athletic scholarship.

    Disappointing to see its being built on internationals at this point, but they may have some signees from last fall and these are just additions I would need to look
     
    #86
  37. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    Disappointing? I find it weird that the first word you think of when seeing a stellar recruiting class like that is disappointing. ASU is going to be a serious team right off the bat, and they need to be considering the commitment they have made re-instating the program. They aren't in the business of handing out charity spots on the team to lesser players based on where they were born.
     
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  38. Nacho

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    Your Cherry picking the word out of context, nothing "weird" about it....The disappointment is not that they are going to be a good team, or have an impact. I love seeing good teams no matter what their make up when it is all said and done.

    The disappointment is that they are going the International route to do it...No, take that back, professional player route since two of those guys have ATP points. It would set a good example if in the ITA's new backyard they were setting this up as the model for other programs with a mix of kids. Instead they are quickly building it with 2 Intl professionals (age 22 and 20), and two other International players. As I indicated I need to look at who else is on the team, but I don't see a full list anywhere.

    I am not an anti-International person, but I think a mix is good and I like to see American players get opportunities instead of 22 year old International pro's. It can be done, but takes a little more work. So I am not impressed with the easy Intl pro route when it comes to the restart of this program
     
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  39. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    I see that they do have 2 lesser quality players from Arizona coming in as well (likely backups). Arizona is a good tennis state but not a great tennis state, it won't produce a top level college player every year so ASU cant really rely on their state to sustain the program.

    Hill did have some Americans at USF so I doubt he will go the Baylor route (recruit all older Europeans, which I personally have no issue with but I can understand the arguments against it). But it looks like these 4 will be a great foundation for building the program.
     
    #89
  40. Nacho

    Nacho Professional

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    Agree, not much in Arizona to pull from, their tennis population is older but I think the state will be better in a few years. Still, players to pull from CA, CO, and other places.

    Only issue I really have with the older Euros is that the American kids don't get the same shake. They have to jump from HS to college within 6 months, so its not a fair competition. I am not entirely clear on why it goes down like this maybe you know. And letting them earn up to $10,000 helps the Euros more which is why over the last several years so many more show up over here. If Tommy Paul, Tiafoe or Frantangelo could join a team right now I would be psyched to see them play college. Of course many wouldn't do it because of the no-ad so i don't blame coaches for going for Intl.
     
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  41. Collegetennisrules

    Collegetennisrules Rookie

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    Arizona is a weak state for junior tennis for what ASU needs to compete in the pac 12. Hill will light it up with international recruits.
     
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  42. andfor

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    Same exact rules apply for internationals as they do for Americans. There's been arguments that some countries graduate H.S. at age 19, but that's got to be the exception not the norm. Each player of high caliber is known by more than one coach, so if a kid has used a year plus of eligibility post HS playing pro, they know. Try an sneak him/her in for another year and the coaches will self-police.
     
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  43. Nacho

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    How then does a kid start at age 22, and with a 500 ATP ranking? It sounds like a grey area for Intl's
     
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  44. jcgatennismom

    jcgatennismom Rookie

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    Below is the NCAA rule. Per the rule, it sounds like older players would have to sit out playing a year and just attend class if they started college a year ore more after graduation and competed any time after 6 months of graduation ( I think there were exceptions added later so players could play on Davis Cup, Olympic teams without violating rule).
    NCAA Bylaw for Division I that went into effect August 1, 2012:

    14.2.3.2.2 Tennis. "In tennis, a student-athlete who does not enroll in a collegiate institution as a fulltime student in a regular academic term within six months (or the first opportunity to enroll after six months have elapsed) after his or her high school graduation date or the graduation date of his or her class (as determined by the first year of high school enrollment or the international equivalent as specified in the NCAA Guide to International Academic Standards for Athletics Eligibility and based on the prescribed educational path in the student-athlete's country), whichever occurs earlier, shall be subject to the following: (Adopted: 4/29/10 effective 8/1/12; applicable to student-athletes who initially enroll full time in a collegiate institution on or after 8/1/12)

    (a) The student-athlete shall be charged with a season of intercollegiate eligibility for each calendar year after the six-month period has elapsed (or the next opportunity to enroll) and prior to full-time collegiate enrollment during which the student-athlete has participated in organized competition per Bylaw 14.02.9.

    (b) After the six-month period, if the student-athlete has engaged in organized competition per Bylaw 14.02.9, on matriculation at the certifying institution, the student-athlete must fulfill an academic year in residence for each calendar year after the six-month period has elapsed (or the next opportunity to enroll) and prior to full-time collegiate enrollment during which the student-athlete has participated in such competition before being eligible to represent the institution in intercollegiate competition."

    In summary, starting college in January of the year following high school graduation will not affect a Division I player's eligibility or playing time in terms of the NCAA rules. Additionally, a player may start in the following fall without penalty, but only if they do not take part in any organized competition of any sort after the 6 month grace period from the high school graduation date has expired. (This is from a TRN article)
     
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  45. andfor

    andfor Legend

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    Thanks JC. Nacho, know that any 22 year old first entering the NCAA to play tennis with a 500 ATP ranking will NOT be entering as a freshman. That player will likely only have 1 MAYBE 2 years of eligibility remaining to play. Different rules apply to the other divisions regarding this situation. Also, know that any tennis player who has played pro, is good enough to be ranked 500 ATP had to go through the NCAA Clearinghouse. That means the prospective student athlete extensively had to prove to the NCAA with receipts etc., they were not pocketing more prize money than expenses. The NCAA Clearinghouse is pretty darn thorough, for me I call it a gauntlet.
     
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  46. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    Anyone remember Michael Dornbusch for Baylor? He played literally only half a semester. Became eligible in march and played through the ncaas at #6 and that was it for him. I'm pretty sure he was older.
     
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  47. andfor

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    I think I remember that name, but only loosely. The 22 year old argument is a re-emerging myth here over and over. While those players still pop in as new player on DI rosters, I don't recall one in the last many years actually being a true freshmen with 4 years eligibility to play. It's like the rules from the 80's have been branded in folks brains. LOL
     
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  48. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    You're right. Also one more thing about Nacho's point. I don't see bringing in international guys as "easy". I'm sure several schools would have loved to have ay of those 4 guys that ASU will be getting, so there was likely competition to sign them. Also there's no guarantee they will be world beaters once they get to college. There have been plenty of international "busts" in college tennis over the years or guys that weren't quite as good as expected at least. They require coaching and adjustment to the college game as well, especially for guys who come from countries that play primarily on clay courts (Spain, South America etc.). Some guy find it hard to move so far from home, have to adjust to the culture shock It's no easier to coach international guys than Americans. In some way it's harder.
     
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  49. jcgatennismom

    jcgatennismom Rookie

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    Now that the Power schools have multiyear contracts, how will those "busts" affect teams? Players under those contracts can technically only be cut for academic ineligibility or behavioral issues now-not for performance. If a coach runs off a player for other reasons, he may have trouble recruiting in the future. However, if a coach keeps a "bust" player, those scholarship $ are tied up for 4 years. Just as recruiting (at least for US juniors) is happening earlier, the stakes are becoming higher for the Power schools-high risk, potential of high reward with the international recruits. Are international players still recruited later, e.g. spring or summer before starting in fall or January?
     
    #99
  50. Nacho

    Nacho Professional

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    Ok, so its complicated, thanks for the info! This ultimately seems to favor the international player, so its just a vicious cycle. Makes sense that coaches build around that, I would if I were a coach.
     

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