Re: the ‘junior and college tennis a waste of time and money’ thread

mikej

Hall of Fame
Re: the thread about junior / college tennis being a waste of time, which was taken down as I attempted to reply

Someone who shall not be named (don’t feed the troll) tries so hard on these forums to make himself feel better about being a low level tennis player by spamming these forums and bashing those that reached a higher level in tennis as people who wasted their lives.

100-250 in the country as a junior depending on age group, spent tons of time on the court and loved it, made incredible lifelong friends and grew as a person challenging myself to become a better tennis player - parents spent much less than the number someone quotes, but yes they spent a lot of time and money supporting me, and shockingly they enjoyed supporting me and traveling with me to tournaments

Attended Duke, now a practicing physician and professor at an academic medical center, so I guess it didn’t ruin my brain

And still love and look forward to the couple days a week I get out there to compete w 4.5-5.0 friends, stay fit, and enjoy this great sport

May I be so lucky for my kid to pursue this sport and have me ‘waste’ tens or even a couple hundred thousand supporting him and chatting with him about life / victory / defeat as we travel to and from tournaments and he fails to become a pro tennis player
 

Nacho

Professional
Well said, glad you brought it up again

I didn't mind the question even if the thread got "pulled", although that argument can be applied to all of college sports, and not just tennis. I think most recreation players have no idea what College tennis is. The question confirms the perception by many in the public and on these threads that tennis is a "rec" sport, or after school activity not worthy of time or effort. This is made even worse by people who play it for recreation because they don't understand tennis beyond USTA leagues or pulling together a game at the local park. The frustrating thing is that that same approach to tennis is held by this same recreation player, who finds themselves administering the sport on different levels so they have no problem abbreviating scoring, limiting what players can do to improve themselves, changing some of the fundamental playing traditions, and giving away the leadership to the international community. People only know what they have experienced, and they fail to understand the depth of tennis nor what it takes to perform at a high level.
 
Re: the thread about junior / college tennis being a waste of time, which was taken down as I attempted to reply

Someone who shall not be named (don’t feed the troll) tries so hard on these forums to make himself feel better about being a low level tennis player by spamming these forums and bashing those that reached a higher level in tennis as people who wasted their lives.

100-250 in the country as a junior depending on age group, spent tons of time on the court and loved it, made incredible lifelong friends and grew as a person challenging myself to become a better tennis player - parents spent much less than the number someone quotes, but yes they spent a lot of time and money supporting me, and shockingly they enjoyed supporting me and traveling with me to tournaments

Attended Duke, now a practicing physician and professor at an academic medical center, so I guess it didn’t ruin my brain

And still love and look forward to the couple days a week I get out there to compete w 4.5-5.0 friends, stay fit, and enjoy this great sport

May I be so lucky for my kid to pursue this sport and have me ‘waste’ tens or even a couple hundred thousand supporting him and chatting with him about life / victory / defeat as we travel to and from tournaments and he fails to become a pro tennis player
Just because you played tennis @Duke and is now a successful MD/PhD means that everyone playing D1 tennis will be successful like you. Have you looked at Power 5 conferences D1 college websites and see how many players on the roster that majors in Pre-med or STEM, very few if any.

For every successful story like yours, there are thousands and thousands D1 college tennis players that graduated with useless college degrees and ended up being a teaching pro. Now there is nothing wrong with that if that's what they choose to do but I prefer that my kid has an actual job in the corporate world.

Playing college tennis is good but one needs to understand and have realistic expectations and that's the job of parents.
 

mikej

Hall of Fame
Just because you played tennis @Duke and is now a successful MD/PhD means that everyone playing D1 tennis will be successful like you. Have you looked at Power 5 conferences D1 college websites and see how many players on the roster that majors in Pre-med or STEM, very few if any.

For every successful story like yours, there are thousands and thousands D1 college tennis players that graduated with useless college degrees and ended up being a teaching pro. Now there is nothing wrong with that if that's what they choose to do but I prefer that my kid has an actual job in the corporate world.

Playing college tennis is good but one needs to understand and have realistic expectations and that's the job of parents.
I didn’t play for Duke’s team, they were top 10 at the time and well out of my league, still out of my league nowadays even with their fall

Agree with your final comment about expectations and the role of parents - there needs to be some balance - the poster / thread I responded to painted anyone who chased competitive junior tennis or college tennis in an extremely negative light (terrible investment, waste of time, you lose your brain, blah blah blah) - obviously that wasn’t my experience

Don’t take my post as an endorsement of pulling kids out of school to chase pro tennis at the expense of any balance in life, with no backup plan / other interests when they fail
 

am1899

Hall of Fame
I didn’t play for Duke’s team, they were top 10 at the time and well out of my league, still out of my league nowadays even with their fall

Agree with your final comment about expectations and the role of parents - there needs to be some balance - the poster / thread I responded to painted anyone who chased competitive junior tennis or college tennis in an extremely negative light (terrible investment, waste of time, you lose your brain, blah blah blah) - obviously that wasn’t my experience

Don’t take my post as an endorsement of pulling kids out of school to chase pro tennis at the expense of any balance in life, with no backup plan / other interests when they fail
100%
 

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
What about their non-athlete classmates who also got the same "useless" degree?
Well, they will suffer the consequences as well.

I don't criticize college tennis in general, but we should be honest here: At top Division I programs, players feel pressure to choose a major that does not have three-hour lab courses that interfere with the practice schedule. At a Division III program, the pressures are different. Many college tennis players are quite capable of completing a STEM degree but choose to major in anthropology or whatever because they need a major with no labs and just reading and writing assignments that can be done on the road, etc.

When they finish college, they are highly unlikely to become financially successful pro tennis players, and now they don't have the degree they could have had if sports were not in the mix.
 

mikej

Hall of Fame
Well, they will suffer the consequences as well.

I don't criticize college tennis in general, but we should be honest here: At top Division I programs, players feel pressure to choose a major that does not have three-hour lab courses that interfere with the practice schedule. At a Division III program, the pressures are different. Many college tennis players are quite capable of completing a STEM degree but choose to major in anthropology or whatever because they need a major with no labs and just reading and writing assignments that can be done on the road, etc.

When they finish college, they are highly unlikely to become financially successful pro tennis players, and now they don't have the degree they could have had if sports were not in the mix.
Also well said

If my kid wanted to play college tennis but also wanted to major in bio/chemistry/etc I’d have a pointed discussion with coaches at any school he was seriously considering about the possibility of that combination in their program / any former student-athletes who have pulled it off they could put me in contact with, etc

Some do it - Reka Zsilinszka won a title at Duke and went on to Duke med school etc

There are also plenty of ‘serious’ majors that don’t require lab time
 

jcgatennismom

Professional
@ClarkC @bobleenov1963 If you skim the list of major for most D1 athletes, business and sports related majors are most popular, e.g. sports management, kinesiology (trainer), etc. What's wrong with a business degree? I was looking at the tennis roster at GT a year or two ago. At a school of mostly STEM majors, the tennis team was mostly biz majors. My husband who is a GT grad showed me an article in the university magazine about sport athlete internships; in it an Ernst and Young recruiter was quoted as saying the company liked to hire GT student athletes-one of the recent hires was from the tennis team. Other biz major former team players also seemed to get good jobs after college. Some of them still play local men's tourneys- one's on a 5.0 team. One of the locals who runs a lot of tennis tourneys tries to work with recent grads with career jobs to schedule weekday matches 6pm or later. While tennis players cant co-op for a semester, as athletes and leaders, they often are chosen for career-related internships and find good jobs after graduation. The STEM or premed majors may be hard to find playing D1 but there are a few-maybe more with the girls. I know of some girls who graduated as chemical engineers or who now are in med school who played D1 tennis.

However, D3 is probably the better choice for players interested in STEM majors-maybe that's why the top D3 schools attract 4 and 5 star players.
 
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mikej

Hall of Fame
@ClarkC @bobleenov1963 If you skim the list of major for most D1 athletes, business and sports related majors are most popular, e.g. sports management, kinesiology (trainer), etc. What's wrong with a business degree? I was looking at the tennis roster at GT a year or two ago. At a school of mostly STEM majors, the tennis team was mostly biz majors. However, those guys seemed to get good jobs after college. Some of them still play local men's tourneys- one's on a 5.0 team. One of the locals who runs a lot of tennis tourneys tries to work with recent grads with career jobs to schedule weekday matches 6pm or later. While tennis players cant co-op for a semester, as athletes and leaders, they often are chosen for career-related internships and find good jobs after graduation. The STEM or premed majors may be hard to find playing D1 but there are a few-maybe more with the girls. I know of some girls who graduated as chemical engineers or who now are in med school who played D1 tennis.

However, D3 may be the better choice for players interested in STEM majors-maybe that's why the top D3 schools attract 4 and 5 star players.
Yeah, going the econ/business route works well with D1 athletics, big companies in NYC are full of former athletes, plenty of connections, and even aside from the connections these companies that require you to work your tail off in your early years already know that you can manage your time well
 
@ClarkC @bobleenov1963 If you skim the list of major for most D1 athletes, business and sports related majors are most popular, e.g. sports management, kinesiology (trainer), etc. What's wrong with a business degree?
There is nothing wrong with a business degree and more often than not, they get paid more than people with STEM degree but that's not the point here.

The STEM or premed majors may be hard to find playing D1 but there are a few-maybe more with the girls. I know of some girls who graduated as chemical engineers or who now are in med school who played D1 tennis.
Ok so you know a some girls that played D1 tennis and now in med school. What is the point here? There are 55 Power-5 schools with let say 10 players in the roster, 1100 tennis players male and female. Can you name how many of them are majoring in STEM or premed? What is the percentage?
 
Also well said

If my kid wanted to play college tennis but also wanted to major in bio/chemistry/etc I’d have a pointed discussion with coaches at any school he was seriously considering about the possibility of that combination in their program / any former student-athletes who have pulled it off they could put me in contact with, etc

Some do it - Reka Zsilinszka won a title at Duke and went on to Duke med school etc

There are also plenty of ‘serious’ majors that don’t require lab time
I graduated with a degree in mechanical engineering and I can tell you that:

- Computer Science major: definitely lot of lab time
- Eletrical Engineering: definitely lot of lab time
- Mechanical Engineering: definitely lot of lab time
- CyberSecurity: definitely lot of lab time
- Civil Engineering: definitely lot of lab time
- Pre-med: definitely lot of lab time


Perhaps you can tell me any of the serious majors that do not require lab time.
 

mikej

Hall of Fame
I graduated with a degree in mechanical engineering and I can tell you that:

- Computer Science major: definitely lot of lab time
- Eletrical Engineering: definitely lot of lab time
- Mechanical Engineering: definitely lot of lab time
- CyberSecurity: definitely lot of lab time
- Civil Engineering: definitely lot of lab time
- Pre-med: definitely lot of lab time


Perhaps you can tell me any of the serious majors that do not require lab time.
Econ, math, public policy, political science...

In other words, maybe the STEM —> engineering or medicine routes are more challenging, but routes that lead to business/finance/law generally spring from majors without lab time
 

jcgatennismom

Professional
There is nothing wrong with a business degree and more often than not, they get paid more than people with STEM degree but that's not the point here. Ok so you know a some girls that played D1 tennis and now in med school. What is the point here? There are 55 Power-5 schools with let say 10 players in the roster, 1100 tennis players male and female. Can you name how many of them are majoring in STEM or premed? What is the percentage?
The point is to address your comment from one of your first posts: "there are thousands and thousands D1 college tennis players that graduated with useless college degrees and ended up being a teaching pro..... I prefer that my kid has an actual job in the corporate world. Playing college tennis is good but one needs to understand and have realistic expectations and that's the job of parents. " The point is D1 college players in non STEM majors can earn degrees with actual jobs in the corporate world.
You shouldn't stereotype athletes nor value some degrees more than others. You should want your children to pursue a degree in a major they enjoy as well as one that could lead to a successful job. Whether it is STEM or not, it should not matter.

My daughter graduated college with a 4.0 B.S. degree with a double major and a minor, 2 of those degrees in STEM majors (she also was her sorority president, a student ambassador and a science tutor); she is currently working on her PhD having finished his masters. She lettered in 2 sports in high school but not at the level to play sports in college like her younger brother. Many athletes playing D1 probably took few AP science courses in high school. My daughter with her HS AP science courses and other extracurriculars only played her varsity sports in season; she did not have the time to play on leagues outside school in the off season. To reach D1 level in many sports requires participation on travel teams or in the case of tennis traveling to tournaments. You are correct there is a tradeoff-hard to be the best scientist or engineer and a top D1 player but a small % manage it-one 5 star I knew who took a lot of science APs took a 36 week online course in 6 weeks in the summer while playing a week long tournament-he was an extremely fast reader, writer, and information processor. A smart kid with average speed in those areas would not have been able to manage it.

There is no right or wrong level of sport participation in high school or college nor are some college majors better than others. Some liberal arts majors are employed by Google and Amazon but they were probably outstanding creative and critical thinkers and writers. The job of parents is to support the children in their passions to a reasonable degree-dont spend tuition $ on tennis, but if family can afford sports training without dipping into college kitty, why not as long as kids know they have to keep up their grades. The bright side is those kids will have learned time management skills in high school that many kids dont learn until college.
 

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
@ClarkC @bobleenov1963 If you skim the list of major for most D1 athletes, business and sports related majors are most popular, e.g. sports management, kinesiology (trainer), etc. What's wrong with a business degree?
There is nothing the matter with a business degree. My point was that athletes get steered into certain programs, whereas if they were not athletes, they would choose the program they really wanted. I stand by that statement from observation up close.

My experience in recent years has been at Virginia. Students enter in the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences by default unless they applied for admission to Engineering. If they want to get into the McIntire School of Commerce, which offers a highly reputed business degree, they have to do very well on grades as a first-year and then apply to that school to be allowed to study there starting in their second year. They are not allowed to simply declare on arrival that they are majoring in business. Making top grades while competing in sports is not easy, so I see some very smart tennis players majoring in fields they probably would not have chosen otherwise. I am just being honest about what I am seeing.
 

JeffG

Rookie
The bigger problem is considering any degree that’s not STEM or business as not serious. While it’s true that majors requiring a lot of lab or studio time like Fine Arts, Theater, and Music might not be a particularly good fit for athletes, some kids go to college for a genuine liberal arts education rather than treating it as vocational school. Those kids are typically great recruits as they’ve already proven a strong affinity for learning and a work ethic/value system that supersedes those of other students who simply view college as the path of least resistance to a fat wallet sans any greater humanitarian interests or concerns.
 

mikej

Hall of Fame
sure, sure, there are some people who have a true passion for sociology / communications / etc - great, follow your passion - the vast, vast majority of people who major in these fields across the country are doing so because it's a path of least resistance - notice i didn't mention fine arts / theater / music, as i don't think those are very easy majors, and i think most are choosing those fields to follow genuine passion / talent

you can major in chemistry and still have a well-rounded liberal arts education, still read vonnegut in your spare time, still have a love of learning and helping your community :) ... i'm not going to feel bad about generalizing that the average chemistry major was more serious about their college education than the average communications major and some majors are more rigorous than others

anyway, i'm in agreement with what's been said by others including clarkc: if your participation in college athletics is significantly limiting your choice of major, and you're not highly likely to succeed as a pro in your sport, that's not a great thing - maybe i should have gotten to that point without comparing specific majors, maybe not
 
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JeffG

Rookie
My main point was directed at the poster who suggested that non-corporate aimed students weren’t engaged in “serious” degree programs. Such conjecture seems to be a habit. Any degree program that requires a student to be in specific campus locations for extended periods beyond standard classes on a regular basis can be difficult for student-athletes (and student-employees), so theater majors and chemistry majors are in the same boat as far as time management is concerned. Every campus has majors that are judged (sometimes fairly, sometimes unfairly) for being easier than others. Which programs those are change based on school and individual departments, not necessarily area of study. Per the original “non-serious” assertion, I’ve known lots of science and engineering majors who absolutely could not hang with the reading, research, and writing loads neccessary to complete a rigorous humanities or social science degree. The same thing happens a lot when humanities-talented folks end up in math and science courses. That’s one of the reasons exploration via a strong, interdisciplinary liberal arts curriculum is important. Otherwise, people end up thinking that their particular interest areas are the only ones that matter or that college is just about future paychecks. To be able to spend a few years experiencing those curriculums sans debt load via playing tennis is really a great opportunity, not something to be so easily dismissed vis-à-vis tennis results or corporate prospects.
 
My main point was directed at the poster who suggested that non-corporate aimed students weren’t engaged in “serious” degree programs. Such conjecture seems to be a habit. Any degree program that requires a student to be in specific campus locations for extended periods beyond standard classes on a regular basis can be difficult for student-athletes (and student-employees), so theater majors and chemistry majors are in the same boat as far as time management is concerned. Every campus has majors that are judged (sometimes fairly, sometimes unfairly) for being easier than others. Which programs those are change based on school and individual departments, not necessarily area of study. Per the original “non-serious” assertion, I’ve known lots of science and engineering majors who absolutely could not hang with the reading, research, and writing loads neccessary to complete a rigorous humanities or social science degree. The same thing happens a lot when humanities-talented folks end up in math and science courses. That’s one of the reasons exploration via a strong, interdisciplinary liberal arts curriculum is important. Otherwise, people end up thinking that their particular interest areas are the only ones that matter or that college is just about future paychecks. To be able to spend a few years experiencing those curriculums sans debt load via playing tennis is really a great opportunity, not something to be so easily dismissed vis-à-vis tennis results or corporate prospects.
My son and I visited a few schools this past summer such as University of Virginia (in-state) and Indiana University (OOS). He has 11.5 UTR at the moment, his GPA is just OK but excellent SAT and ACT score, 1580 and 36, respectively. I think his chance of getting into UVA is slim because that school emphasizes more on the GPA than SAT/ACT. IU is OOS school so it will cost much more but it has a very good music program that my son is very interested in. He has been playing music since he was five years old and he spends about 99% of his time practicing music and tennis so he has zero interest in doing school work. It is what it is. He always wants to major in music but I've also advised him that he should also minor in information/cybersecurity because that's something he can fall back on in case music does not work out for him. People that work in information or cybersecurity are making a very good living, earning >250k/year. He will probably end up playing club tennis somewhere.

While I agree generally with you that some of the student are engaged in some "serious" degree programs, the vast majority of student-athletes do not, and that also goes with non student-athletes. I have an engineering background but I can't write or read well like someone majoring in humanities or social science degree, far from it. Smart people who studied humanities or social science do just as well in math or engineering and they will work in places like FAANG. Those people will be fine. However, the vast majority of both student-athletes and non student-athletes are not capable of doing that. If you have average intelligence and major in STEM, you will have a very good chance of getting a good paying job after college than someone with the same intelligence as you but that person majors humanities or social science. These days with a STEM degree, you can get a 100K/yr at Amazon working on cloud technology (AWS) immediately after graduation. I am not sure average people with degrees in humanities or social science degree make after college but I can't imagine it will be much. I know quite a few people with humanities or social degree with a 70K/year salary 15 years after graduation. You can follow your passion but at the same time, you need to be practical because whether you like it or not, everyone needs money to live, especially when you get married and have children.

Playing tennis in college is a very valuable experience but it also needs to be weighed with everything else. If you can use tennis to advance your "networking" and prepare your career after tennis is over, than go for it. You have to be smart about it and not let tennis use up and spit you out.

My 2c.
 

jcgatennismom

Professional
My son and I visited a few schools this past summer such as University of Virginia (in-state) and Indiana University (OOS). He has 11.5 UTR at the moment, his GPA is just OK but excellent SAT and ACT score, 1580 and 36, respectively..... I IU is OOS school so it will cost much more but it has a very good music program that my son is very interested in....he spends about 99% of his time practicing music and tennis so he has zero interest in doing school work. It is what it is. He always wants to major in music but I've also advised him that he should also minor in information/cybersecurity because that's something he can fall back on in case music does not work out for him... Playing tennis in college is a very valuable experience but it also needs to be weighed with everything else....My 2c.
My 2c to the above: Do you really want to send your son to a university 10-11 hour drive from your home in VA when you already know he will prioritize music and tennis over school? Yes he is very intelligent based on his SAT/ACT scores but he is selective about where he is going to put his effort. Tennis is a big time commitment esp at Power 5 D1 schools-it is way more than 20 hours a week at most d1s-read this document to see what is not included in the 20 countable hours-most players are probably at 32 hours a week: https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/20-Hour-Rule-Document.pdf He might get on the team at Indiana, but he is unlikely to play unless he is mid 12 UTR (could get there by freshman spring), and I doubt he will get much athletic $ as I know UTR 12.5s who got less than 15% offers at Power 5 schools

It almost seems like you have perverse pride in the fact that your son spends so little time on regular schoolwork. I would suggest you tell him to put in the effort this fall semester if he wants you to send him to an out of state school which could cost $35-$50K annually without much athletic $; most public universities give the majority of merit to in state students unless they are National Merit Scholars. Now if your son improves his GPA to match his SAT/ACTs then maybe he will get merit. If he is double majoring in music plus something totally unrelated like cybersecurity, he is probably looking at 5 years of college or 4 1/2 if he goes every summer. My daughter did her double major with an additional minor in 4 years but she had a semester from APs coming in plus she attended 2 summers, and all her major/minors were related with the same Gen Eds. If your son tests well, have him take some CLEP tests for Gen Eds if Indiana accepts. If your son does not spend much time on schoolwork, I doubt he has taken many APs. Maybe challenge him to take 1-2 APs this year.

We should encourage our kids' passions as long as they manage the core stuff like regular school. Your son is fortunate that he is smart enough to coast through HS but he may struggle some in college with 30 hours of tennis, wanting to play music, and still having to write those pesky papers for Gen Ed courses, doing group projects, or coding for his cybersecurity classes. My son wanted to be homeschooled and go play grade 4 and 5 Caribbean jr ITFs like some other kids he knew. We aid no but compromised and let him take two courses online but he had to go to regular school half day. He mainly played USTA tourneys on weekends to limit missed school. All that was contingent on keeping a 3.5. If your son is truly talented in tennis and music, he can cut down the hours on those and still do well-quality over quantity. My son was a 5 star training 3.5 hours a day 3-4 x a week plus tournaments twice a month-dont have to do 20+ hours of training a week if you make the most out of every hour there.
 

atatu

Hall of Fame
My son and I visited a few schools this past summer such as University of Virginia (in-state) and Indiana University (OOS). He has 11.5 UTR at the moment, his GPA is just OK but excellent SAT and ACT score, 1580 and 36, respectively. I think his chance of getting into UVA is slim because that school emphasizes more on the GPA than SAT/ACT. IU is OOS school so it will cost much more but it has a very good music program that my son is very interested in. He has been playing music since he was five years old and he spends about 99% of his time practicing music and tennis so he has zero interest in doing school work. It is what it is. He always wants to major in music but I've also advised him that he should also minor in information/cybersecurity because that's something he can fall back on in case music does not work out for him. People that work in information or cybersecurity are making a very good living, earning >250k/year. He will probably end up playing club tennis somewhere.



My 2c.
Why not go to William and Mary ? Great school and he could probably play there.
 

Rattler

Professional
Lol my daughter was given a tennis scholarship D-1 Junior college and then was was given a scholarship to at Big 10 school, not a tennis powerhouse by any means...but she got a free education and turned that into being a successful business owner.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Well, they will suffer the consequences as well.

I don't criticize college tennis in general, but we should be honest here: At top Division I programs, players feel pressure to choose a major that does not have three-hour lab courses that interfere with the practice schedule. At a Division III program, the pressures are different. Many college tennis players are quite capable of completing a STEM degree but choose to major in anthropology or whatever because they need a major with no labs and just reading and writing assignments that can be done on the road, etc.

When they finish college, they are highly unlikely to become financially successful pro tennis players, and now they don't have the degree they could have had if sports were not in the mix.
That assumes that they were interested in the tough majors in the first place. I know of several D1, D2 and D3 players who were not interested at all - one of them even had a simple criteria for her major after high school: Nothing with math.
 
My son and I visited a few schools this past summer such as University of Virginia (in-state) and Indiana University (OOS). He has 11.5 UTR at the moment, his GPA is just OK but excellent SAT and ACT score, 1580 and 36, respectively. I think his chance of getting into UVA is slim because that school emphasizes more on the GPA than SAT/ACT. IU is OOS school so it will cost much more but it has a very good music program that my son is very interested in. He has been playing music since he was five years old and he spends about 99% of his time practicing music and tennis so he has zero interest in doing school work. It is what it is. He always wants to major in music but I've also advised him that he should also minor in information/cybersecurity because that's something he can fall back on in case music does not work out for him. People that work in information or cybersecurity are making a very good living, earning >250k/year. He will probably end up playing club tennis somewhere.

While I agree generally with you that some of the student are engaged in some "serious" degree programs, the vast majority of student-athletes do not, and that also goes with non student-athletes. I have an engineering background but I can't write or read well like someone majoring in humanities or social science degree, far from it. Smart people who studied humanities or social science do just as well in math or engineering and they will work in places like FAANG. Those people will be fine. However, the vast majority of both student-athletes and non student-athletes are not capable of doing that. If you have average intelligence and major in STEM, you will have a very good chance of getting a good paying job after college than someone with the same intelligence as you but that person majors humanities or social science. These days with a STEM degree, you can get a 100K/yr at Amazon working on cloud technology (AWS) immediately after graduation. I am not sure average people with degrees in humanities or social science degree make after college but I can't imagine it will be much. I know quite a few people with humanities or social degree with a 70K/year salary 15 years after graduation. You can follow your passion but at the same time, you need to be practical because whether you like it or not, everyone needs money to live, especially when you get married and have children.

Playing tennis in college is a very valuable experience but it also needs to be weighed with everything else. If you can use tennis to advance your "networking" and prepare your career after tennis is over, than go for it. You have to be smart about it and not let tennis use up and spit you out.

My 2c.
I don't know about the rest of the post, but I can tell you that Amazon is a lot more selective about who they recruit to work on their cloud technology stack. You are going to need to be in the top 2-3% of STEM graduates if you expect to get hired straight out of school by any of the FAANG's (or Microsoft, Oracle, IBM, etc.). You average STEM grad is going to be starting out making 60K as a junior developer in some small to midsize business IT department.
 

3kids

Rookie
Just because you played tennis @Duke and is now a successful MD/PhD means that everyone playing D1 tennis will be successful like you. Have you looked at Power 5 conferences D1 college websites and see how many players on the roster that majors in Pre-med or STEM, very few if any.

For every successful story like yours, there are thousands and thousands D1 college tennis players that graduated with useless college degrees and ended up being a teaching pro. Now there is nothing wrong with that if that's what they choose to do but I prefer that my kid has an actual job in the corporate world.

Playing college tennis is good but one needs to understand and have realistic expectations and that's the job of parents.
My son and I visited a few schools this past summer such as University of Virginia (in-state) and Indiana University (OOS). He has 11.5 UTR at the moment, his GPA is just OK but excellent SAT and ACT score, 1580 and 36, respectively. I think his chance of getting into UVA is slim because that school emphasizes more on the GPA than SAT/ACT. IU is OOS school so it will cost much more but it has a very good music program that my son is very interested in. He has been playing music since he was five years old and he spends about 99% of his time practicing music and tennis so he has zero interest in doing school work. It is what it is. He always wants to major in music but I've also advised him that he should also minor in information/cybersecurity because that's something he can fall back on in case music does not work out for him. People that work in information or cybersecurity are making a very good living, earning >250k/year. He will probably end up playing club tennis somewhere.

While I agree generally with you that some of the student are engaged in some "serious" degree programs, the vast majority of student-athletes do not, and that also goes with non student-athletes. I have an engineering background but I can't write or read well like someone majoring in humanities or social science degree, far from it. Smart people who studied humanities or social science do just as well in math or engineering and they will work in places like FAANG. Those people will be fine. However, the vast majority of both student-athletes and non student-athletes are not capable of doing that. If you have average intelligence and major in STEM, you will have a very good chance of getting a good paying job after college than someone with the same intelligence as you but that person majors humanities or social science. These days with a STEM degree, you can get a 100K/yr at Amazon working on cloud technology (AWS) immediately after graduation. I am not sure average people with degrees in humanities or social science degree make after college but I can't imagine it will be much. I know quite a few people with humanities or social degree with a 70K/year salary 15 years after graduation. You can follow your passion but at the same time, you need to be practical because whether you like it or not, everyone needs money to live, especially when you get married and have children.

Playing tennis in college is a very valuable experience but it also needs to be weighed with everything else. If you can use tennis to advance your "networking" and prepare your career after tennis is over, than go for it. You have to be smart about it and not let tennis use up and spit you out.

My 2c.
The irony of painting with a wide brush and assigning college tennis players majors as useless and not serious while one's own offspring is a SAT/ACT genius but has zero interest in doing school work? While I have 2 college kids majoring in STEM at the HYPS schools, I would not be as disrespectful to other kids' choices in college and the road that they and their parents took to get them there. Whether they are student athletes or non-athletes, STEM or non-STEM, all these kids are on a path that may or may not pan out in life to varying degrees of "success".

Below is one story of success. I'm sure there are other stories of "success" as I'm sure there are also other stories of "failures" from junior and college tennis.
 

md3113

Rookie
Respectfully, I think this argument is silly. Firstly every school has thousand of athletes, and knows how to handle labs vs practice and competition. It’s obviously much more difficult to balance high level academics with athletics, but most schools serious about academics (which seems to be what we’re talking about here) absolutely encourage it. If not, it’s up to a student and parent to discover that during the recruiting process and decide if the school is a fit for them or not.

Generally professors and academic advisors are aware that they will have athletes as students. In my experience athletes are prohibited from registering for labs/courses during in season competition hours, but given priority to register for them during the off season.

This is a strain on time, but managing your time and a demanding academic/athletic schedule should demonstrate sontthing to employees. You also can’t write off the connections/networking factor of college athletics. I’ve been asked about college tennis on every interview I’ve ever been on.

It’s definitely harder, but works for some and not for others. Just like every other college student, you’ll get out what you put in.
 

Holdfast44ID

Semi-Pro
Well, I wanted to be on the pro tour but blew out my shoulder and wrist. I only had three years of college and became a teaching pro. I learned IT on my own and went on to having a six-figure income as an IT executive. We all have our different paths and I don't see anything wrong with chasing our dreams, at least a little bit.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
For your consideration

That article is gone, but there are tons of articles out there on youth sports, costs, the amount of time, etc. It really all boils down to parents in those siutations which are very much the exception and not the nule. Again, if you spent time with juniors at tournaments, academies and campus you would find most the young players enjoying themselves and NOT living in the highest pressure situations, but with an eye on college and more. And even at ITF, pro circuit, and such, many of the players get hosted by families and you get to talk with them about their experiences with it all. It is just that, a bit of grind, but they are happy to be playing and being able to chase their dreams.

Fact is, you can be unhappy grinding away at a crappy job you hate just as easily as grinding away to make something you love possibly work. True for kids too.
 
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Disgraceful that the author was bullied into deleting his article by crazy psycho tennis parents.
Sad.

Anyone remember the posters name who wrote that blog ?
 

Raul_SJ

Legend
Just because you played tennis @Duke and is now a successful MD/PhD means that everyone playing D1 tennis will be successful like you. Have you looked at Power 5 conferences D1 college websites and see how many players on the roster that majors in Pre-med or STEM, very few if any.
Years ago a Junior College player was telling me about his team practice schedule. Think it was something averaging 3 hours a day. Maybe more, I forget.
 
It almost seems like you have perverse pride in the fact that your son spends so little time on regular schoolwork. I would suggest you tell him to put in the effort this fall semester if he wants you to send him to an out of state school which could cost $35-$50K annually without much athletic $; most public universities give the majority of merit to in state students unless they are National Merit Scholars. Now if your son improves his GPA to match his SAT/ACTs then maybe he will get merit. If he is double majoring in music plus something totally unrelated like cybersecurity, he is probably looking at 5 years of college or 4 1/2 if he goes every summer. My daughter did her double major with an additional minor in 4 years but she had a semester from APs coming in plus she attended 2 summers, and all her major/minors were related with the same Gen Eds. If your son tests well, have him take some CLEP tests for Gen Eds if Indiana accepts. If your son does not spend much time on schoolwork, I doubt he has taken many APs. Maybe challenge him to take 1-2 APs this year.
He is taking two AP courses this year, AP calculus BC and AP physics but he is not taking school seriously because he just does not have the time even if he wants to. As parents, my role is there to support my child. Fortunately, he is able to follow his dream because his older brother and I have the financial to support him. If things do not work out, he can always get a high paying job where his brother works or through the connections at the private prep where he is attending now. He does have a valid point that since he will be a music major in college, AP calculus and AP physics is overkill.

I don't know what your son did in high school with his time but here is mine on a regular weekdays and weekends:

Monday-Friday
6:30am: Practice piano for 45 minutes
7:15am eat breakfast and get ready for school
7:45am: head to school
3:15pm: school is dismissed.
3:45pm: arrive home from school and get ready for tennis
4:00pm: Tennis lessons on Tues/Thursday for two hours. Tennis hitting with college players on Mon/Wed/Friday for one hour and physical training for one hour
6:15pm: private tutor reading/writing for an hour
7:15pm: dinner
8:00pm: study time until 10pm.
10:00pm: practice guitar or write music for 45 minutes
10:45pm: bed time

Saturday:
6:30am: breakfast
7:00am: physical training with a physical trainer for 2 1/2 hours
9:30am: break time & snack
10:00am: tennis practice with local college tennis players for 90 minutes
11:30am: break time
12:00pm: lunch
12:30pm: piano lessons for 90 minutes
02:00pm: break time and snack
02:30pm: practice with his own band for 2 hours
04:30pm: break time and snack
05:00pm: study time
06:30pm: dinner
07:00pm: his band performs at private events for money
11:00pm: bed time

Sunday:
08:00am: breakfast
08:30am: light work out
09:00am: swimming for an hour
10:00am: practice tennis for an hour
11:00am: break
11:30am: guitar lessons for an hour
12:30pm: lunch
01:00pm: study time for 5 hours with some guitar/piano playing time in between
06:00pm: go out to dinner with brother and parents
07:30pm: watch TV
09:30pm: bed time
 

andfor

Legend
I think you may be a little overly wound tight about what you want versus what the kids wants. While school is more important than tennis, if you're trying to steer him into a field you want versus what his aptitudes and desires are, someone is going to be disappointed. Probably the kid. My suggestion is help him the best you can as you are with his schooling and tennis. But find out from him and with some help from some career counseling where his career vocational desires are. Then help guide him to where the best school and college tennis fit may be.

I pushed my kid though school. Although he loved tennis, he hated school. Now he plays golf and works in a field for which most colleges do not have that curriculum. The golf is one thing, that's cool. In hindsight we should have put more effort into identifying his vocational preferences. Then we could have better tailored his choice of post secondary education coupled with college tennis.
 

jcgatennismom

Professional
@bobleenov1963 From the posted schedule, it sounds like your son splits his after school time between schoolwork and tennis/music with 3 hours of studying M-F and 2:45 of tennis/music. In your earlier posts, you implied your son spent very little time studying; in reality his time is balanced. Saturday is the only day that is primarily tennis and music which is reasonable. 2 hours a day for tennis training during the week is actually light, but quality can sometimes offset quantity with the right coaches and focus. If I added right he has 9,5 hours of tennis practice a week and 7 hours of conditioning/workouts/cross training. Most players would have more tennis and less conditioning, e.g. 30min-1hr or strength conditioning per 3 hrs of tennis. However, he needs to fit in some time for tournaments. My son probably spent 13 hrs on tennis training/conditioning M-F (much less during HS tennis season) with tournaments twice a month on weekends. On the weekends without tournaments, he caught up or worked ahead on his two online classes as he left school at 1pm each day (and came back at 3;45 for HS tennis matches-most team followed similar schedule). He probably arranged some matchplay and did some conditioning on his own on those off weekends.

In college I think most players practice 3 hours of tennis with an hour of weights/conditioning sometime during the day-either after practice or early in the am. Typical college schedule-classes in am, grab a quick light lunch, then tennis/conditioning. Get dinner then study but also spend evening/weekend time attending other sports (strongly encouraged), attend meetings, do some volunteer work, travel, do laundry, go grocery shopping if you live off campus and dont have meal plan-not much free time during week and limited free time on home weekends-need to use that for projects, bigger papers. Your son might be able to do his music in the fall as players may only play 3-4 fall invites, but in the spring, once the season starts, there are matches every week, with half away. He might only get to do his music on home weekends. In a tight van with players and tennis bags, there probably wont be room for a guitar.

Your son needs to fit in some tourneys along with all the training and practice matchplay to see if he can execute his new skills and develop mental toughness. There are some kids who look great in practice but fall apart in competition.
 

Okes

New User
He is taking two AP courses this year, AP calculus BC and AP physics but he is not taking school seriously because he just does not have the time even if he wants to. As parents, my role is there to support my child. Fortunately, he is able to follow his dream because his older brother and I have the financial to support him. If things do not work out, he can always get a high paying job where his brother works or through the connections at the private prep where he is attending now. He does have a valid point that since he will be a music major in college, AP calculus and AP physics is overkill.

I don't know what your son did in high school with his time but here is mine on a regular weekdays and weekends:

Monday-Friday
6:30am: Practice piano for 45 minutes
7:15am eat breakfast and get ready for school
7:45am: head to school
3:15pm: school is dismissed.
3:45pm: arrive home from school and get ready for tennis
4:00pm: Tennis lessons on Tues/Thursday for two hours. Tennis hitting with college players on Mon/Wed/Friday for one hour and physical training for one hour
6:15pm: private tutor reading/writing for an hour
7:15pm: dinner
8:00pm: study time until 10pm.
10:00pm: practice guitar or write music for 45 minutes
10:45pm: bed time

Saturday:
6:30am: breakfast
7:00am: physical training with a physical trainer for 2 1/2 hours
9:30am: break time & snack
10:00am: tennis practice with local college tennis players for 90 minutes
11:30am: break time
12:00pm: lunch
12:30pm: piano lessons for 90 minutes
02:00pm: break time and snack
02:30pm: practice with his own band for 2 hours
04:30pm: break time and snack
05:00pm: study time
06:30pm: dinner
07:00pm: his band performs at private events for money
11:00pm: bed time

Sunday:
08:00am: breakfast
08:30am: light work out
09:00am: swimming for an hour
10:00am: practice tennis for an hour
11:00am: break
11:30am: guitar lessons for an hour
12:30pm: lunch
01:00pm: study time for 5 hours with some guitar/piano playing time in between
06:00pm: go out to dinner with brother and parents
07:30pm: watch TV
09:30pm: bed time
I feel sorry for your kid. Could you keep up a schedule like that? Relax. Let kids be kids.
 

tennisbuck

Professional
I haven’t read the whole thread but if playing junior or college tennis gives you meaning and purpose for a number of years, it’s not a waste of time. There’s a lot of unhealthier ways to find those things. It must be only in a success driven society that recreation is deemed a “waste of time”.

Now, I guess if you weren’t playing tennis for the right reasons it could be a waste of time looking back, but that’s probably the case for anything
 
He is taking two AP courses this year, AP calculus BC and AP physics but he is not taking school seriously because he just does not have the time even if he wants to. As parents, my role is there to support my child. Fortunately, he is able to follow his dream because his older brother and I have the financial to support him. If things do not work out, he can always get a high paying job where his brother works or through the connections at the private prep where he is attending now. He does have a valid point that since he will be a music major in college, AP calculus and AP physics is overkill.

I don't know what your son did in high school with his time but here is mine on a regular weekdays and weekends:

Monday-Friday
6:30am: Practice piano for 45 minutes
7:15am eat breakfast and get ready for school
7:45am: head to school
3:15pm: school is dismissed.
3:45pm: arrive home from school and get ready for tennis
4:00pm: Tennis lessons on Tues/Thursday for two hours. Tennis hitting with college players on Mon/Wed/Friday for one hour and physical training for one hour
6:15pm: private tutor reading/writing for an hour
7:15pm: dinner
8:00pm: study time until 10pm.
10:00pm: practice guitar or write music for 45 minutes
10:45pm: bed time

Saturday:
6:30am: breakfast
7:00am: physical training with a physical trainer for 2 1/2 hours
9:30am: break time & snack
10:00am: tennis practice with local college tennis players for 90 minutes
11:30am: break time
12:00pm: lunch
12:30pm: piano lessons for 90 minutes
02:00pm: break time and snack
02:30pm: practice with his own band for 2 hours
04:30pm: break time and snack
05:00pm: study time
06:30pm: dinner
07:00pm: his band performs at private events for money
11:00pm: bed time

Sunday:
08:00am: breakfast
08:30am: light work out
09:00am: swimming for an hour
10:00am: practice tennis for an hour
11:00am: break
11:30am: guitar lessons for an hour
12:30pm: lunch
01:00pm: study time for 5 hours with some guitar/piano playing time in between
06:00pm: go out to dinner with brother and parents
07:30pm: watch TV
09:30pm: bed time
here we go again.
 

Tonyl

New User
Great discussions, especially for me, relatively new to this game. I need some advice here. I have a 11-year-old boy playing tennis. We started private lessons one year ago. I'm just a 3.5 player, but really like tennis. My son like tennis as well, but I don't feel he has the passion, as he rarely "research" tennis techniques by himself on youtube, and don't practice/shadow-swing by himself. I currently don't have a plan for him to pursue college tennis or don't feel he has the talent, but still want him to be competitive as much as possible and to have a "well rounded" college application. I know it's a hard question, but how to maintain a good balance? We currently have practice and lessons on 5 days (~10~12 hours on court/week), and already feel significant less time on homework/learning. I'd love to listen some suggestions.
 

jcgatennismom

Professional
Great discussions, especially for me, relatively new to this game. I need some advice here. I have a 11-year-old boy playing tennis. We started private lessons one year ago. I'm just a 3.5 player, but really like tennis. My son like tennis as well, but I don't feel he has the passion, as he rarely "research" tennis techniques by himself on youtube, and don't practice/shadow-swing by himself. I currently don't have a plan for him to pursue college tennis or don't feel he has the talent, but still want him to be competitive as much as possible and to have a "well rounded" college application. I know it's a hard question, but how to maintain a good balance? We currently have practice and lessons on 5 days (~10~12 hours on court/week), and already feel significant less time on homework/learning. I'd love to listen some suggestions.
Top colleges are looking for a well-rounded class of individuals who excel in their passions not students who are competent in a variety of areas. If your son just likes tennis OK, back off on the tennis hours and encourage him to find an activity that truly interests him. At 11, he could still be playing multisports-maybe play another that is a team sport. He might enjoy USTA rec team tennis-that's a lower time commitment than tournaments. If tennis was his true passion, you would probably know it by now. My son was the one at 10yo who begged us for 6 months to put him in a tournament-we just thought of tennis as something kids practiced an hour a week and played an hour on the weekend for jr rec tennis; we put him in the sport cause he could bike to the courts. Then he fell in love with it and we had to spend 2 weekends a month driving him to tourneys....

Definitely emphasize the academics as much or more as the sports. My son plays D1 college tennis and is a scholar athlete but I wish I had pushed academics more in middle school-requiring him to read books on the drive to tournaments and write a report, etc. Because he was not much of reader, he had to spend a lot of time studying and retaking the SAT in high school to get the score for a merit as well as athletic scholarship.

At 11 maybe give him another year or so to be a kid-dont think to much about college yet! Unscheduled free play or exploration might help him find his true interests. At 11, shouldnt his coach just be drilling the technique? My son loved tennis but I think he only looked at tennis videos his coaches showed him at that was probably at 13-14+. He certainly wasnt watching Youtube videos on tennis techniques at that age! Take your son to some college matches-let him see tennis is fun-regardless of whether the intent is college play, just watching could inspire more interest in the sport. Maybe sign him up as a ballboy for an event. Grades dont really count until 8th grade-focus on reading and writing as those are needed in all subjects and math. If he is having a hard time finding balance at 11, he has a too busy schedule.
 

Tonyl

New User
Top colleges are looking for a well-rounded class of individuals who excel in their passions not students who are competent in a variety of areas. If your son just likes tennis OK, back off on the tennis hours and encourage him to find an activity that truly interests him. At 11, he could still be playing multisports-maybe play another that is a team sport. He might enjoy USTA rec team tennis-that's a lower time commitment than tournaments. If tennis was his true passion, you would probably know it by now. My son was the one at 10yo who begged us for 6 months to put him in a tournament-we just thought of tennis as something kids practiced an hour a week and played an hour on the weekend for jr rec tennis; we put him in the sport cause he could bike to the courts. Then he fell in love with it and we had to spend 2 weekends a month driving him to tourneys....

Definitely emphasize the academics as much or more as the sports. My son plays D1 college tennis and is a scholar athlete but I wish I had pushed academics more in middle school-requiring him to read books on the drive to tournaments and write a report, etc. Because he was not much of reader, he had to spend a lot of time studying and retaking the SAT in high school to get the score for a merit as well as athletic scholarship.

At 11 maybe give him another year or so to be a kid-dont think to much about college yet! Unscheduled free play or exploration might help him find his true interests. At 11, shouldnt his coach just be drilling the technique? My son loved tennis but I think he only looked at tennis videos his coaches showed him at that was probably at 13-14+. He certainly wasnt watching Youtube videos on tennis techniques at that age! Take your son to some college matches-let him see tennis is fun-regardless of whether the intent is college play, just watching could inspire more interest in the sport. Maybe sign him up as a ballboy for an event. Grades dont really count until 8th grade-focus on reading and writing as those are needed in all subjects and math. If he is having a hard time finding balance at 11, he has a too busy schedule.
Thank you so much for these great suggestions! He likes sports in general, and also tried basketball, swimming, and soccer. But I don't feel he has passion for any of these, maybe because he wasn't good at any of these. I hope he could develop more passion about tennis when he gets better techniques and fitness. When he is really interested in something, like origami or rubik's cube, he will search it up and learn on youtube. That's why I think he has not fallen love with tennis yet. Like you said, I should provide more unscheduled free play. Right now, he is kind of in a passive learning mode pushed by me.
He is in an academic magnet middle school, so there are more homework/projects. You're absolutely right, academics are the 1st priority. He really likes reading, but hates writing, LOL!
 
Adding a bare $.02, my kids did sports, are both graduated, both have masters. The eldest was a swimmer, the training is grueling, in HS more than 10 miles a day.! She attended a service academy, just did IC athletics her first year. It's pretty exhausting and the kids got sick a lot from lack of sleep .ie from cleaning their rooms all night ......Got requested to coach the base junior swim team on her first assignment which got her noticed by the generals. Her people skills and sports background helped her be a good coach and leader. Her mentors from those first years are still looking out for her. At one of her promotion ceremonies her first boss spoke about how he had asked her about her HS life and he spoke about her stories of music practices, swimming, horseback riding, volunteer work all packed into a typical week. He said she brought that level of organization to her professional work and he had never seen someone learn the job so quickly. Sports opened many doors for her, and continue to do so. Being a team member is important in today's society.She competes in other sports now. She's in her 30s. As a parent you can't predict how things will turn out. They learn how to be very very good with their time. She manages 1300 people..She has an amazing military career, she still volunteers with children in different capacities, including mentoring kids who have lost a parent while serving our country. Sports really gave her the opportunity, she ran with it..

The other one competed, but not as enthusiastically. She made HS varsity tennis, it's hard here, then to find the hs team captain was selling drugs to the tennis team members who were her main customers. The captain was caught but not really disciplined so my daughter quit the HS team,just did recreational tennis with various coaches and made some nice tennis friends from different high schools and they went to tournaments together... At college the club tennis team wasn't well organized and she lost interest. She got 3 Bachelor degrees , physics, math, CS,and a Masters in CS in about 4 1/2 years. She said it was really tough and she had little free time. She had to be really organized and study really hard ..but in her career, the cloud, they continue to work hard.. and they still study! She'd like to play league tennis,she has good memories of playing on my teams as a young adult with other high achieving young women... Somewhere along the line all her hard work in school translated into being a good tech employee. The salary mentioned earlier as an Amazon worker is really only about 1/2 of what her friends were offered as new grads a couple of years ago. The quality of the university you attended filters which companies recruit there. She mentioned the top companies recruit at only certain schools. She didn't realize that while she was in school. She went to our state school which is quite good in CS. As parents we were shocked at the offers...not to mention the bonuses..these skills are in demand..

1. Your choice of college matters, a lot. The companies know which schools produce the best grads. You get the best internships which lead to job offers..your choice of major is important. At my daughter's company those with related degrees get only about 70 % of the others, even when they do the same work.
2. I dont think a HS student can be too busy. They are surrounded by kids who aren't supervised, and who are continually making bad decisions. Doing drugs will keep you from getting a security clearance for your whole life..At the academies the kids were all extremely personable, doing major sports , highly proficient in music, volunteering, foreign languages, , maybe also having a hobby like a pilots license, all before college. That is just the run of the mill kid there, nothing special...!. My eldest really thrived on being surrounded by one high achieving kid after another. And they are truly leaders of people or they wouldn't be there.. Sports opens doors, but hard work takes over...
 
1. Your choice of college matters, a lot. The companies know which schools produce the best grads. You get the best internships which lead to job offers..your choice of major is important. At my daughter's company those with related degrees get only about 70 % of the others, even when they do the same work.
I do take issues with this. I work for multiple FinTech companies and there are lot of people making 300K/yr in Cyber Security with 100k in bonus every year. Half of them attended George Mason University. The other half attended local Community Colleges. One guy graduated from Carnegie Mellon U. and he reports to a guy who went to Community College. IT is a field where it is not about where you attended colleges but whether you can produce in a highly stressful environment. I myself attended Ohio State University and I reported to my boss who didn't even finish college.

Btw, the CEO of the company had a biology degree and a medical school drop out. He attended local community college before transferring to University of Maryland in Baltomore County. He is now making about 4.5M/yr as CEO. Every year at Christmas' party, his favorite line has always been "where you go to college does not determine your future and I am the perfect example of that."
 

dak95_00

Hall of Fame
Athletes are sought after with degrees because employers know they can work under stressful conditions and are the last to quit. D1 athletes are exceptional because they are at an elite level and just below professional. I've known a handful of All-Americans who didn't pursue professional athletics because they didn't want to live the grueling travel lifestyle. I've known high school athletes that turned their backs on full scholarships to pursue academic pursuits instead of athletic. I've known students who turned away full academic scholarships to pursue athletics or marching band dreams.

To each their own!

Good things happen for those who pursue them regardless of education. Whether you say you can or you can't, you're correct!
 

andfor

Legend
Athletes are sought after with degrees because employers know they can work under stressful conditions and are the last to quit. D1 athletes are exceptional because they are at an elite level and just below professional. I've known a handful of All-Americans who didn't pursue professional athletics because they didn't want to live the grueling travel lifestyle. I've known high school athletes that turned their backs on full scholarships to pursue academic pursuits instead of athletic. I've known students who turned away full academic scholarships to pursue athletics or marching band dreams.

To each their own!

Good things happen for those who pursue them regardless of education. Whether you say you can or you can't, you're correct!
I do take issues with this. I work for multiple FinTech companies and there are lot of people making 300K/yr in Cyber Security with 100k in bonus every year. Half of them attended George Mason University. The other half attended local Community Colleges. One guy graduated from Carnegie Mellon U. and he reports to a guy who went to Community College. IT is a field where it is not about where you attended colleges but whether you can produce in a highly stressful environment. I myself attended Ohio State University and I reported to my boss who didn't even finish college.

Btw, the CEO of the company had a biology degree and a medical school drop out. He attended local community college before transferring to University of Maryland in Baltomore County. He is now making about 4.5M/yr as CEO. Every year at Christmas' party, his favorite line has always been "where you go to college does not determine your future and I am the perfect example of that."
Good schools with solid degree track certainly can pay off well, we all know that. Good posts above that success is not only found because of where one went to school. Personal success has more to do with the individual and personal motivation.

My wish is that more tennis playing kids who loved the game would pursue playing college tennis at schools where they fit in academically and athletically. Even if that means a smaller school. There are so many great options other than Power5 schools. In the end, to each his own.
 

JW10S

Hall of Fame
I have a client who is the CEO of a Fortune 500 company and he says with all things being equal they will almost always hire an applicant who also competed in college sports over someone who just went to class. He says athletes generally are more competitive, more goal oriented, have more discipline, have better time management skills, work better with others, are more receptive to 'coaching' (i.e. training), and, what I thought was interesting, they understand and can deal with the idea that you can't always win them all, than those who are just 'book smart'. He did say he has some people 'who are just absolutely brilliant but completely hopeless at the company softball games' but those are exceptions. He put it simply by saying 'college athletes have had more things to deal with and were able to manage it, those are the kind of people we're looking for'. And in my view, sports are never a waste of time and money--you can gain far more than you can lose.
 
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jcgatennismom

Professional
My wish is that more tennis playing kids who loved the game would pursue playing college tennis at schools where they fit in academically and athletically. Even if that means a smaller school. There are so many great options other than Power5 schools. In the end, to each his own.
So true. Know kids who were top 10 blue chips 3 years of HS who hardly cracked lineup in college. Know others who were 4 star late bloomers, walked on to a Power conference, got to play when someone else was injured, won, and stayed in the lineup. Recruits look at lots of options besides the power schools-lots of good choices at MMs and D3s; D2s and NAIA can be options too but you have to check academic level-there are 650+ schools on Forbes college list and most that have tennis teams are D1 or D3. Son had a friend that went to a D2 with an average SAT score of 1280 which is a lot higher than the average SAT (for all students, not tennis players) of a lot of D1s (that D2 school was definitely on Forbes list). Follow slam.tennis to get rankings of MM schools. Realize there are MM schools that play ITA kickoff, go to NCAAs, and send their players to tourneys like AAs. Aim for a MM ranked in the ITA top 75 that plays some big schools if you are borderline Power/MM-probably will save you $ and give recruit more playing time. Some MMs are really strong in dubs. I was skimming over ITA regional results this weekend, and for one of the regionals, all 4 semifinalist dubs teams were MM teams. Also select a school where you are either at 75ile for SAT Math/Verbal or 50 for one/75 for the other-better chance for good merit aid plus if you are spending 30+ hours on tennis between practice, tourneys (fall invites can go from 6am-10pm multiple days between warmups, your matches, and watching teammates), dual meets, team/compliance meetings, volunteer work, etc(-lots of stuff not counted in 20 hrs of countable activities), you are in for a rough ride if you come in at 25%ile with a lot less time to study than the smarter kids in your classes. Go where you can play and where you wont have to stay up all night to keep up your grades. If you are a US male player who was not a blue chip, part of your package will probably be merit so you will need to keep up those grades! Over 1000 US males commit to play college tennis each year, and over 60% of those play for colleges without athletic scholarships-either D3, Ivys, or a few other D1s that dont give athletic scholarships for tennis. Equal priority academics/tennis in high school= better college experience. You dont have to be home or virtually schooled to reach your college tennis goals unless you really seriously think you are going to be a pro someday and already have some jr slam match wins and/or future wins in high school. Reach the highest level of tennis you can at least attending regular school half day (ok to take 1-2 courses you are strong in online) and pick a college that fits your academic and tennis level.
 
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Son had a friend that went to a D2 with an average SAT score of 1280 which is a lot higher than a lot of D1s (that D2 school was definitely on Forbes list)
Average 1280 on the SAT? In areas like the DMV triangle (DC, Maryland, Virginia), a 1280 SAT is a laughing stock around here. Just about everyone that my son hangs out with scores at least 1550 on the SAT and 35 on the ACT. People here have so much resources to send their kids to SAT/ACT preps. No wonder why they score so high on the exam. It is is like a nuclear arm race in this area.

The SAT/ACT is the perfect achievement gap between the "have" and "have not".
 
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