Real sweet spot size, Courier & racquet head size

[daved]

Do we really understand how sweet spot and racquet head sizes are related to each other? Does racquet head size really have that much to do with sweet spot size?

I used a KPS88 for a few months last year as my main racquet. Despite the mid head size, this racquet felt to me as if it had the biggest sweet spot of any I've ever played with, certainly bigger than on my main racquet, the POG OS.

I've recently started playing with the PS 85 reissue. The sweet spot on this also feels bigger than the one on my POG OS.

A quick look at the TW University sweet spot comparisons tool confirms my perceptions:

The KPS 88 has a bigger sweet spot than almost any other racquet, including popular "big sweet spot" frames like the Pure Drive.

My PS 85 does have a bigger sweet spot than my POG OS.

Tennis.com has a couple of great vids right now with Courier talking about gear and about his need to move to a larger head size (he now plays with a 102 sq. in. Donnay).

http://www.tennis.com/gear/2012/09/gear-talk-jim-courier-part-2/39355/#.UE9gkqOf98E

Are his perceptions bunkum?

Head size and sweet spot don't seem to be directly correlated.

Courier's PS 85 with added weight likely had a bigger sweet spot than his current Donnay 102 (to which he certainly has added weight but he says in the video is more headlight than how he had his PS 85 weighted).

 

[TennisCJC]

I agree with you. Mass has a big impact on sweetspot (power zone) size. There was a Boris Becker 98" head racket a few years back that had a swing weight around 375 grams. The power zone was enormous.

Courier does not need a 102" head. I don't need a 102" head and he is younger about 15 years younger and 10 times better than me.

His new racket could be more HL but still have a decent swing weight to yield a big power zone. I don't know because I have no idea of his final specs.

 

[corners]

Courier may use the term "sweetspot" when talking about why he switched to a larger headsize. But what he's really talking about is forgiveness - less shanks, etc. Sampras switched to a 98 for the same reason. Footwork's not as sharp, practice time is less so timing isn't what it used to be, etc. Same thing all of us face as we get older. But not all of us go up in headsize.

The KPS88 has enormous twistweight, which is why it feels like it has an enormous sweetspot. Oversize racquets all have high twistweights, but midsize frames usually do not, unless they have lots of mass at 3&9, like the KPS88 does. But oversize frames also minimize shanks and mishits by providing a much larger effective hitting area. Remember Pancho Gonzalez's famous statement about his nephew Agassi's oversize racquet : "If I had played with this I would have never missed single volley."

Courier and Sampras are today 100 times the tennis players that I will ever be or ever was. I love mids, but when the great ones make the switch it's got to make us rec players wonder about our choices.

 

[daved]

<<Courier and Sampras are today 100 times the tennis players that I will ever be or ever was. I love mids, but when the great ones make the switch it's got to make us rec players wonder about our choices.>>

Even the great ones have famously been wrong about the facts of what happens when a racquet hits a ball. Of course, they are dead right about what they feel and what they like.

Perhaps Courier and Sampras simply feel more confident with the bigger headsizes and thus play better.

Edberg famously worried about his "weak" 2nd serve and forehand until Vic Braden showed him that his numbers on those shots were actually very good. Whereupon Edberg, a logical northern European, was freed from his misconceptions about his own game and was able to further improve his confidence and results.

My local pro, a former top 15 junior in the world, top 5 D1 college player and ATP pro, describes the poly and multi hybrid he uses thusly..."the poly in the mains is for power and the the multifilament in the crosses is for control." We all know that the poly has less power than the multi, but that's the way he feels it and perceives it.

At the end of the day, the pros are better for many reasons, not least of which is they "feel" much better than the rest of us -- i.e., their kinesthetic sense is vastly superior to ours -- and they trust that sense and don't waste time thinking about the kind of nonsense we discuss on these boards!

 

[prjacobs]

<<Courier and Sampras are today 100 times the tennis players that I will ever be or ever was. I love mids, but when the great ones make the switch it's got to make us rec players wonder about our choices.>>

Even the great ones have famously been wrong about the facts of what happens when a racquet hits a ball. Of course, they are dead right about what they feel and what they like.

Perhaps Courier and Sampras simply feel more confident with the bigger headsizes and thus play better.

Edberg famously worried about his "weak" 2nd serve and forehand until Vic Braden showed him that his numbers on those shots were actually very good. Whereupon Edberg, a logical northern European, was freed from his misconceptions about his own game and was able to further improve his confidence and results.

My local pro, a former top 15 junior in the world, top 5 D1 college player and ATP pro, describes the poly and multi hybrid he uses thusly..."the poly in the mains is for power and the the multifilament in the crosses is for control." We all know that the poly has less power than the multi, but that's the way he feels it and perceives it.

At the end of the day, the pros are better for many reasons, not least of which is they "feel" much better than the rest of us -- i.e., their kinesthetic sense is vastly superior to ours -- and they trust that sense and don't waste time thinking about the kind of nonsense we discuss on these boards!

Lendl had frames of all the top pros he played exactly duplicated so he could hit with them and see how each racquet would react to every type of shot. That's pretty geeky .

 

[Power Player]

I agree with you. Mass has a big impact on sweetspot (power zone) size. There was a Boris Becker 98" head racket a few years back that had a swing weight around 375 grams. The power zone was enormous.

Courier does not need a 102" head. I don't need a 102" head and he is younger about 15 years younger and 10 times better than me.

His new racket could be more HL but still have a decent swing weight to yield a big power zone. I don't know because I have no idea of his final specs.

Courier kmows what he needs better than anybody. And if you play guys with pro strokes who hit heavy shots, it helps a lot to have a bigger racquet, especially when you get older.

What size stick is sampras using?

 

[daved]

size matters

Sampras supposedly has been using a Babolat Pure Storm Tour leaded up to similar weight to his old Pro Staff 85 spec for the last two years or so.

If Sampras and Courier both needed to increase headsize by over 10% to stay on top of their game as they've grown older, doesn't that mean we all should be playing with 110+ sq. in. racquets?

 

[ChicagoJack]

Courier may use the term "sweetspot" when talking about why he switched to a larger headsize. But what he's really talking about is forgiveness - less shanks, etc. Sampras switched to a 98 for the same reason. Footwork's not as sharp, practice time is less so timing isn't what it used to be, etc. Same thing all of us face as we get older. But not all of us go up in headsize.

The KPS88 has enormous twistweight, which is why it feels like it has an enormous sweetspot. Oversize racquets all have high twistweights, but midsize frames usually do not, unless they have lots of mass at 3&9, like the KPS88 does. But oversize frames also minimize shanks and mishits by providing a much larger effective hitting area. Remember Pancho Gonzalez's famous statement about his nephew Agassi's oversize racquet : "If I had played with this I would have never missed single volley."

Courier and Sampras are today 100 times the tennis players that I will ever be or ever was. I love mids, but when the great ones make the switch it's got to make us rec players wonder about our choices.

Ditto that stuff. Couldn't have said it better myself. corners FTW.

Edit: Wait, Huh? Pancho's Nephew Agassi? Just caught that on a re-read.

 

[daved]

Pancho was married to Agassi's sister

fur realz

 

[ChicagoJack]

^^^^ That I did not know. Kewl Newz.

 

[BreakPoint]

Courier and Sampras are today 100 times the tennis players that I will ever be or ever was. I love mids, but when the great ones make the switch it's got to make us rec players wonder about our choices.

Not for me. Both Sampras and Courier can switch to Big Bubbas and it would have no effect whatsoever on what I do and what I like. I'll still be using my mids. They do whatever it is they do out there on a tennis court and I do what I do. There's really no correlation. And I'm not switching to poly strings just because all the top pros use them, either.

 

[scotus]

^^^^ That I did not know. Kewl Newz.

You missed that part? It was in his autobiography.

 

[kaiser]

There's another take on this: veterans like Sampras and Courier are very attractive to the racket industry because old farts like (most of) us with money to burn can identify more easily with them. And as they are no longer making a living out of winning matches, what would they care what racket to play with? They could play their demonstration matches with a frying pan if need be...