Real talk re: moderator "favoritism" on GPPD/TTW.

[tusharlovesrafa]

I'd like to disagree with some of you about KK. I know this is not relevant to this discussion, but he was hardly fair / objective. He posted in the R&R section quite a bit and forced his views on others, was very opinionated and could not tolerate an opposing view. OTOH, diredesire has a reputation of being fair ever since I've been on this forum.

Who is KK?

 

[TeflonTom]

... Why shouldn't people be banned for stupid threads?

err, they should be? I was respondin 2 this comment:

Silly threads (in isolation) are not against the rules.

Sub-forums for specific players is a bit of an unrealistic ideal. We aren't looking to segregate people, and you can't have discussion without talking about opponents. Those boards would be filled with shallow content if we made them. I imagine trolls would also be 10x more effective, as their target audience is set aside nicely for them

good. it would keep all the crap off the main board.

the biggest issue in this forum is signal 2 noise ratio. subforums would fix that without havin 2 censor anybody

this forum is already way 2 busy. if u go away for a coupla days u have 2 sift thru pages n pages of new threads. subforums would organize them nicely n allow people 2 easily locate the stuff that interests them n ignore the stuff that doesnt

keepin all the mindless fanbois together n away from normal ppl is just a bonus

If you're invested in privacy, you should be browsing through a (possibly) paid VPN service, not an online proxy service. Online (free) proxy services are generally used by those who are trying to circumvent, not protect themselves.

no need 2 use a sledgehammer 2 kill a fly. vpn aint necessary unless u r transmittin sensitive data. ur second sentence is just a rubbish assumption






leavin all this aside, what is the actual point o this thread brah? if its cos u want feedback cos u wanna improve the site thats cool, i dig. admirable goal. but i dont see u actually takin on board any of the suggestions on the last 8 pages. ur just makin a bunch o longwinded posts explainin why the status quo is right

if its just to justify ur decisions - ur a supermod dood. u dont have to justify urself 2 us. u could be a complete d-bag or the greatest guy in the world, dont make a darn bit o difference cos this aint a democracy

if u want 2 improve the site based on ppls ideas, theres plenty of suggestions here - so get crackalackin. if u like the site the way it is, thats cool too. its ur business. just dont waste every1s time with a charade 2 make u look like u r interested in their input

 

[diredesire]

I didn't suggest that Nadal fans were angels. Never said it and if that's what you read into it, then I can see why there's an overall problem. And also, if you can't see the preponderance of Federer fans on this forum, that's a problem too. Not the number of Federer fans - that's not a problem - but the number of Federer fans who gang up to put down Nadal fans. It's there. Pretending that behaviour doesn't exist won't resolve anything and it's a false equivalence to imply that the poo-flinging is equal on both sides.


So you're saying that your only option is to delete the whole post? If so, you are indeed handcuffed and I'm not surprised that there is a problem with the forum. The obvious answer to your question about what action to take, to me, is to give the poster a warning, IN THE POST SO EVERYONE ELSE CAN SEE, that in spite of all the good points said poster has made, name calling and insults will not be tolerated and will result in a ban in the future. It's how teachers and parents operate. Acknowledge the good stuff but put a stop to the bad but again, I think it's important that the admonition is done publicly so that other posters can see what is and isn't acceptable.


First and foremost, do not allow insults. Do not allow posters to call others ****s or idiots or other similar highbrow names. Do not allow other posters to taunt and call me a fangirl and tell me I should go to ************* if I want to say anything nice about Rafa. (All of the above have happened...often, as well as a lot of other crap.)

That alone would elevate the tone of the forum and would be a good start. There are plenty of smart posters who would try to get around that prohibition by using other words and phrases but the moderators are also smart and they can tell if the tone is derogatory and contributes nothing to the discussion except to get others riled up.

Lets quit the subtle jabs, shall we? I created this thread to help. If you feel I'm part of the overall problem, then there's really no reason to post in this one.

I consider myself to be pretty fair, and pretty unbiased. I see crap being flung from both sides. If there is ANY lopsidedness, it's because there are simply less reports from one side as compared to the other. I've already detailed why I can't fix every single post in this forum (it's just not possible), nor do I try to.

I'll say it again: due to transparency issues, you obviously don't see a lot of cleanup going the opposite direction (in your "favor," if you will). There are plenty of nadal fans who gang up on the federer fans, as well. I don't quantify the numbers of fans, I don't have an excel spreadsheet, so I won't make wild claims about the numbers of fans on either "side."

Yes, my only option is to delete the whole post. It's very unpopular for me to edit other peoples' posts, I'm experimenting with it a little more here and there, and I generally leave a note if I do (I think I may have actually accidentally hit the edit button a few times in this thread while attempting to multi-quote by accident, so my apologies if that caused any confusion). When user mods first signed on, the directive was that user content should not be altered. I think I've been around long enough where most people will trust that I'll use my better judgement, but long story short: I favor deletion over editing. The cases where I'll make the exception is (now) in the example I cited above: If a post is largely substantial, and an insult is tacked on at the end (AND the post hasn't been quoted a million times, and thread continuity can be preserved), I'll remove the personal comment and let the thread continue.

I appreciate the suggestion of the, uh... public shaming? However, this is not my style, and I don't think it fits with the style and feel of our community. I will on occasion lock a thread with a citation as to why posted in it, but I feel that the impression that comes across is that I'm a snot/holier than thou because I get to put the last word in, with no arguments. Feels a little too dictator-ish to me, and I'm all for feedback and discussion (as it is probably becoming clear).

As far as what is or isn't acceptable, I agree, it'd be nicer to communicate it more clearly, but I'll have to figure out if it's possible to do this in a tasteful way. I don't want to be seen as a babysitter, I want to be a poster/contributor first, and a moderator second.

I should also note that I am only speaking from the perspective of my role on the board. The admins obviously are able to cast wider nets, and bring the hammer down if they please.

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I actually don't allow insults. If they're brought to my attention, they're fixed, and generally speaking, they're fixed quickly. If you're seeing insults and don't report them... well, I hate to say it, but... you're part of the problem :twisted: (sorry, it's only fair). But on a serious note, like I mentioned before, if you expect every single instance of **** to disappear overnight, or every insult, you really shouldn't hold your breath. It is not possible, even if we had "staff" 5x the size to do something like this. I'd also imagine the board would be a much, much worse place if we even attempted this. If we're going to take baby steps, though, and you're willing to work with me, then report insults/instances of "****," etc. I find these just as distasteful (if not more, since I see so much of it) than anyone else.

As far as the other behavior that has been directed towards you, I'm sympathetic to your situation, but understand that people are jerks on the internet, and the best I can do is remove it. If it hurts you personally, I can't prevent it from happening, but I can deal with it after the fact. I hate saying it like this, since it sounds so impersonal, but you need to have a thick skin on the internet in general. IMHO, TTW is a wonderful community overall. There are cancerous posters on the board, but I find them to be the overwhelming minority (albeit a pretty vocal one)...

In any case, I am fully willing to "be tougher," but what I really mean by this is: Report more posts, and you'll see less insults. Really.

 

[diredesire]

err, they should be? I was respondin 2 this comment:

good. it would keep all the crap off the main board.

the biggest issue in this forum is signal 2 noise ratio. subforums would fix that without havin 2 censor anybody

this forum is already way 2 busy. if u go away for a coupla days u have 2 sift thru pages n pages of new threads. subforums would organize them nicely n allow people 2 easily locate the stuff that interests them n ignore the stuff that doesnt

keepin all the mindless fanbois together n away from normal ppl is just a bonus


no need 2 use a sledgehammer 2 kill a fly. vpn aint necessary unless u r transmittin sensitive data

ur second sentence is just a rubbish assumption

leavin all this aside, what is the actual point o this thread brah? if its cos u want feedback cos u wanna improve the site thats cool, i dig. admirable goal. but i dont see u actually takin on board any of the suggestions on the last 8 pages. its just longwinded posts explainin why the status quo is right

if its just to justify ur decisions - ur a supermod dood. u dont have to justify urself 2 us. u could be a complete d-bag or the greatest guy in the world, dont make a darn bit o difference cos this aint a democracy

if u want 2 improve the site based on ppls ideas, theres plenty of suggestions here - so get crackalackin. if u like the site the way it is, thats cool too. its ur business

but if its just a charade 2 make u look like u r interested in ppls input then dont waste every1s time

Alright, I'll play. If we had subforums for every pro player, and all the shallow content went there, what's left (that doesn't fall mostly into one of these subforums)?

Subforums don't fix SNR, they would only amplify it. I'm not sure how completely you've thought this through, but lets think like a troll (like I said before): It's figuratively fish in a barrel.

I agree, the forum is busy, but that's the nature of the beast. That's actually the draw for many people. Constant content, and constant people to discuss tennis with. I think the ability to tag threads would be interesting, though.

no need 2 use a sledgehammer 2 kill a fly. vpn aint necessary unless u r transmittin sensitive data

You serious?

any1 who is smart surfs under a proxy 2 protect their personal info

ppl r way 2 casual about internet security n privacy

And my second sentence isn't a rubbish assumption. If you're serious (read as: "not way 2 casual" about your privacy), a VPN is a pretty easy/solid/nobrainer safety net. Besides the <.5% of the userbase that uses a proxy specifically for anonymity, what else are they used for? I'm going to have to call you out on this because you don't see the vast, vast number of people surfing under a proxy that happen to also be major trolls that happen to also share (legit) IPs as well as writing styles of formerly banned posters.

leavin all this aside, what is the actual point o this thread brah? if its cos u want feedback cos u wanna improve the site thats cool, i dig. admirable goal. but i dont see u actually takin on board any of the suggestions on the last 8 pages. its just longwinded posts explainin why the status quo is right

This is as much a thread to shed light on moderation which isn't normally discussed on the thread, but what do you actually expect? Someone tells me to do something, and I implement it blindly? What if you logged in tomorrow and ALL the current sub forums were gone, and the board was laid out completely differently? Changes should be made slowly, if at all. People (in general) don't like dramatic change.

if its just to justify ur decisions - ur a supermod dood. u dont have to justify urself 2 us. u could be a complete d-bag or the greatest guy in the world, dont make a darn bit o difference cos this aint a democracy

I have a relatively thick skin (as do you, obviously... you've stuck it out with your writing style, and I've seen plenty of complaints about that, too ). I'm not making excuses for myself, rather explaining how things work so people can more effectively work with me to make the board better. Not much else to it. Admins have the final say, but if things need improving, I'm willing to take it into consideration. I've (assumedly) been around long enough to weather a few storms, no need to worry

if u want 2 improve the site based on ppls ideas, theres plenty of suggestions here - so get crackalackin. if u like the site the way it is, thats cool too. its ur business

but if its just a charade 2 make u look like u r interested in ppls input then dont waste every1s time

I'll let you decide whether or not it's a charade. I'm not interested in implementing every single suggestion in here. Some of them don't make sense, and some of them need to be calculated and weighed. Also, it's not my business. I don't work for TW, I'm (primarily) a poster just like anyone else. I think this board is tops, and if it can get better, we can all chip in and weigh in.

 

[Russeljones]

Looked like a 'down the line winner' to me Dire

 

[TeflonTom]

some openness 2 change would be nice. nobody expects stuff 2 change overnight but fron ur responses here u dont seem receptive 2 anythin

as far as explainin the modding process i dont really care bout why or how u make decisions n i think most other ppl dont either. they either trust u 2 do it right, or they disagree with u n cant do anythin about it. either way, mods gunna mod

 

[Russeljones]

some openness 2 change would be nice. nobody expects stuff 2 change overnight but fron ur responses here u dont seem receptive 2 anythin

i dont really care bout why or how u make decisions n i think most other ppl dont either. they either trust u 2 do it right, or they disagree with u n cant do anythin about it. either way, mods gunna mod

You joined a month ago, what are you on about?

 

[diredesire]

some openness 2 change would be nice. nobody expects stuff 2 change overnight but fron ur responses here u dont seem receptive 2 anythin

i dont really care bout why or how u make decisions n i think most other ppl dont either. they either trust u 2 do it right, or they disagree with u n cant do anythin about it. either way, mods gunna mod

I'm very receptive, otherwise I wouldn't be here. I'm also a bit of a critical thinker, or else (again) I probably wouldn't be here. Give me something solid that I can move forward with, and I'll be happy to. You want me to direct the flow and what people can or can't talk about in GPPD? Won't happen. You want me to clean up insults/namecalling/**** accusations? I already do that. If i'm doing a crappy job, and you think I could do better: I need everyone's help. I've got limits.

I think most would be surprised how "open" the admin staff as a whole can be. Classic racquets and Stringing techniques/machines didn't used to exist. Someone suggested them, they made a lot of sense, so we implemented them.

 

[TeflonTom]

You serious?


And my second sentence isn't a rubbish assumption. If you're serious (read as: "not way 2 casual" about your privacy), a VPN is a pretty easy/solid/nobrainer safety net. Besides the <.5% of the userbase that uses a proxy specifically for anonymity, what else are they used for? I'm going to have to call you out on this because you don't see the vast, vast number of people surfing under a proxy that happen to also be major trolls that happen to also share (legit) IPs as well as writing styles of formerly banned posters.

proxies r quick, easy to use, free, dont require software 2 be installed, dont require logins. they are a good anonymity option

the idea that ppl should be regarded as trolls just 4 usin em is contemptible.

 

[TeflonTom]

You joined a month ago, what are you on about?

non sequitur ftw

I'm very receptive, otherwise I wouldn't be here. I'm also a bit of a critical thinker, or else (again) I probably wouldn't be here. Give me something solid that I can move forward with, and I'll be happy to. You want me to direct the flow and what people can or can't talk about in GPPD? Won't happen. You want me to clean up insults/namecalling/**** accusations? I already do that. If i'm doing a crappy job, and you think I could do better: I need everyone's help. I've got limits.

I think most would be surprised how "open" the admin staff as a whole can be. Classic racquets and Stringing techniques/machines didn't used to exist. Someone suggested them, they made a lot of sense, so we implemented them.

i have given u suggestions. by far biggest forum problem is snr. u have 2 options 2 fix the user experience:

- improve the ratio by improvin quality of postin
- improve the way content is organized so ppl can filter out the crap more easily

u dont wanna ban idiots with vapid opinions who start 2 many threads. but u dont wanna implement any sort of content hierarchy via subforums that will keep the crap outta ppls way. is there anythin u ARE willin to do? if so, would be good 2 hear it

tbh brah, u arent comin across as real open in this thread. u are comin across as someone who wants ppl to think he's open

if this is just a thread 4 lickspittles to tell u what a great job ur doin, and for u to lecture ppl who disagree with u, then - well, yawn

 

[ATP100]

I know you have a tough job running a daycare, er, being a moderator on
a public forum.

Are you doing a bad job...no, you wouldn't be there long if you were.
Are you doing a good job...no, if you were, this thread wouldn't exist.
(take a minute, think about that)

This thread proves you or them/they are trying to do better, that is a good thing...good luck.

 

[sdont]

Do not allow other posters to taunt and call me a fangirl and tell me I should go to ************* if I want to say anything nice about Rafa. (All of the above have happened...often, as well as a lot of other crap.)

I'm sorry, but how can you hope to be taken seriously when you post something like this? Making it all about yourself in such a thread is... sort of schoking, but primarily extremely funny.

You might think people telling you to "go to *************" is for mocking you, but really it might be good advice for you to go to a more "pro-Rafa" forum considering what you just posted.

These boards are somewhat similar to real life. Don't expect people not to laugh when you say something funny even if it's not intentional. Sure it might hurt your little ego, but there's nothing wrong with them.

 

[billnepill]

err, they should be? I was respondin 2 this comment:




good. it would keep all the crap off the main board.

the biggest issue in this forum is signal 2 noise ratio. subforums would fix that without havin 2 censor anybody

this forum is already way 2 busy. if u go away for a coupla days u have 2 sift thru pages n pages of new threads. subforums would organize them nicely n allow people 2 easily locate the stuff that interests them n ignore the stuff that doesnt

keepin all the mindless fanbois together n away from normal ppl is just a bonus


no need 2 use a sledgehammer 2 kill a fly. vpn aint necessary unless u r transmittin sensitive data. ur second sentence is just a rubbish assumption






leavin all this aside, what is the actual point o this thread brah? if its cos u want feedback cos u wanna improve the site thats cool, i dig. admirable goal. but i dont see u actually takin on board any of the suggestions on the last 8 pages. ur just makin a bunch o longwinded posts explainin why the status quo is right

if its just to justify ur decisions - ur a supermod dood. u dont have to justify urself 2 us. u could be a complete d-bag or the greatest guy in the world, dont make a darn bit o difference cos this aint a democracy

if u want 2 improve the site based on ppls ideas, theres plenty of suggestions here - so get crackalackin. if u like the site the way it is, thats cool too. its ur business. just dont waste every1s time with a charade 2 make u look like u r interested in their input

I don't like the idea of sub forums. Not every idea should be taken on board you know? It's common sense that sub forums would destroy the sensible discussion and there will be trolls who would pollute the subforums. Overall it will destroy the appeal of TTW. For me at least

 

[Russeljones]

I know you have a tough job running a daycare, er, being a moderator on
a public forum.

Are you doing a bad job...no, you wouldn't be there long if you were.
Are you doing a good job...no, if you were, this thread wouldn't exist.
(take a minute, think about that)

This thread proves you or them/they are trying to do better, that is a good thing...good luck.

Err no? He is allowing for interaction, how does that reflect negatively on the quality of his work?

 

[billnepill]

My 2 cents under the assumption that you have proper data to look at

Proactive measures:

- number of threads with 1-2 star rating. Alarming sign that the poster is spamming or posting stupid threads. Supervision is necessary of course in case of ganging up cases.
- posts/thread ratio. If it reaches certain threshold, it's probably spamming. I am talking specifically about general and match sections.
- number of alerts received. If it reaches certain threshold, the case needs to be reviewed.

Reactive measures

- reports and contents of reports. This will correct anything missed from the proactive monitoring. It could be 1 report but of unacceptable nature, ie racism.

I don't how it works, but is there a warning letter that people receive if they are in danger territory? This could be issued if posters are on the edge to give them the opportunity to correct themselves. If I report a poster, I might not want him/her necessarily banned, I might want him /her to correct a particular aspect his/her posting (name calling, use of offensive words, etc)

 

[DragonBlaze]

I don't like the idea of sub forums. Not every idea should be taken on board you know? It's common sense that sub forums would destroy the sensible discussion and there will be trolls who would pollute the subforums. Overall it will destroy the appeal of TTW. For me at least

Agreed, subforums is not something I would like either. Just seems that it would decrease the amount of discussion that is going on.

 

[Rhino]

It's almost too bad you can't vote to ban posters.. I think if a poster is being too belligerent or disrespectful it would be nice to have the option.

And another idea: Take a note of their most used IP addresses before you ban them. That way when they try to open a new account under a new name you can quickly identify them as the same poster. You could ban all new accounts from those IP addresses instead. Otherwise banning is kind of pointless.

 

[DragonBlaze]

And another idea: Take a note of their most used IP addresses before you ban them. That way when they try to open a new account under a new name you can quickly identify them as the same poster. You could ban all new accounts from those IP addresses instead. Otherwise banning is kind of pointless.

They do that already. Unfortunately it's easy to bypass that by using proxies.

 

[TeflonTom]

I don't like the idea of sub forums. Not every idea should be taken on board you know? It's common sense that sub forums would destroy the sensible discussion and there will be trolls who would pollute the subforums. Overall it will destroy the appeal of TTW. For me at least

not sayin all ideas should be taken on. sayin somethin should be done about the issue, n that the reactions so far in this thread aint seemed too conducive 2 change

my suggestion is subforums. other ppl have made other suggestions bout more proactive modding

diredesire has said he aint up 4 any of that. thats cool. my question becomes what is he up 4?

problem exists. needs a solution. he aint offerin any, just dismissin the ones suggested in a thread where he asked 4 input

 

[joeri888]

not sayin all ideas should be taken on. sayin somethin should be done about the issue, n that the reactions so far in this thread aint seemed too conducive 2 change

my suggestion is subforums. other ppl have made other suggestions bout more proactive modding

diredesire has said he aint up 4 any of that. thats cool. my question becomes what is he up 4?

problem exists. needs a solution. he aint offerin any, just dismissin the ones suggested in a thread where he asked 4 input

Dear TeflonTom, since there are a lot of international people with English as their second or third language, it would be extremely helpful if you could keep your texts in normal (American) English and avoid slang and/or text message language. I have a LOT of trouble understanding what you say. Would be great, thanks.

 

[sureshs]

diredesire is a far better moderator than the egoistic control freaks with ulterior political motives who passed for moderators before.

 

[Iron Man]

diredesire is a good moderator but I have a question : if moderating and supervising is such a hard task why don't you increase the number of moderators , there are many members who deserve that .

another question : recently many good posters with thousands of posts were banned for good , why don't you give them another chance so that they can return to their favourite forum ?

THANKS

 

[Polaris]

diredesire is a far better moderator than the egoistic control freaks with ulterior political motives who passed for moderators before.

This ++1 .

 

[Federererer]

Wow lots of whiners in here. Let's be honest, sure the board isn't perfect, but it's really not that bad. There were many suggestions in here 90% are pretty stupid. Seems to me the only viable solution I have read is report and keep reporting. Something will get done usually. And if nothing is done, then instead of blaming the moderator, perhaps you should try to look for your potential error in reporting it (this is directed to vernonbc).

It's impossible to ban words because people always find a way around them (eg. b!tch, stfu, **** become turd or taard, etc,etc.) Just cannot be done. So STOP suggesting it.

 

[diredesire]

i have given u suggestions. by far biggest forum problem is snr. u have 2 options 2 fix the user experience:

- improve the ratio by improvin quality of postin
- improve the way content is organized so ppl can filter out the crap more easily

u dont wanna ban idiots with vapid opinions who start 2 many threads. but u dont wanna implement any sort of content hierarchy via subforums that will keep the crap outta ppls way. is there anythin u ARE willin to do? if so, would be good 2 hear it

tbh brah, u arent comin across as real open in this thread. u are comin across as someone who wants ppl to think he's open

if this is just a thread 4 lickspittles to tell u what a great job ur doin, and for u to lecture ppl who disagree with u, then - well, yawn

Your opinion is appreciated. Like Federererer said, if all problems you mentioned are solved by better reporting, I'd be most open to taking that avenue. SNR should increase, no need to risk making unpopular changes. I brought up the suggestion to having grad slam oriented subforums to the admins. 1-2 weeks in advance of any grand slam, a (potentially) unmoderated sub-forum is opened inside GPPD (similar to match results) where anything slam related (spoiler or not) can go.

I'm not fishing for compliments, i'm not looking for my ego to be stroked, here, I'm looking for any potential breakout ideas, and correcting misconceptions. I think you may be misunderstanding the purpose of the thread. This thread is as much for clarification as it is anything else. If you continue to misrepresent my words, I think you've made your opinion clear.

As far as being unreceptive to the suggestions, here's a summarized list of what people have proposed (I won't make assumptions that anyone's actually read the entire thread):

• Ban people for spamming a board: We already do --> This is also a per case basis. Spam is not so clearly identified if you're "trolling right."
• Instance brought up with McEnroeisanartist/Bruce39: Taken care of. Threads were left in place due to usable (and insightful) discussion.
• Monitor the boards closely during/after the slams: (Already done to the point where you would not believe)
• Vote to ban posters: We take feedback via Reported posts. Established patterns are taken into consideration, and generally lead to a ban (permanent or non permanent) [This also wouldn't work unless the threshold was unreasonably high, due to the polarization of fan camps]. (you tell ME if you disagree)
• Only allow people who purchased something from TW on: You tell me if that would work. Not a good environment ==> a good ol' boys club.
• Deal with X Y Z poster(s): A few bans have resulted
• Automatically ban IPs: It's not possible via the CP I have. I don't have admin access, so I can't implement this. We do this already, but in a more manual fashion
• Unban old users: I already addressed this, but if people have a change of tune, they are welcome to petition (and many times, you will be succesful. Time heals wounds)
• Lay down the law: I lay down the law plenty, but many times it's not visible. Am I going to direct the tone of the board? No. This is a style/preference call, but only one (thus far) amongst many requests that I'm going to be "unreceptive" towards.
• Show people reasons for bans: User that is banned is already shown the reason (and I described how to find it)
• Implement a post limit: I'm considering it, but it needs to be done in a way that makes sense. Limiting it in GPPD makes the most sense, but it may mean that unnecessary garbage spills over to other subforums, depending on how annoying a user will be.
• Separate fanboy section: A change i'm willing to consider, but it doesn't make sense. If you want to see this happen, weigh the big picture for me, and I'm willing to discuss it.
• New users not be allowed to create threads: Also something we've already spoken bout on the admin side, it'd need some work to make sense.
• Censor GOAT/choke/tank/****/other flame inciting words: Not a bad idea, but it's only a deterrant. Doesn't fix the problem. How many times do you see "****" on the forum? [Although, I actually think the word substitution of **** --> bunny is actually pretty good...]

As far as being unwilling to "implement" the above, I've already DONE some of the stuff above, and the suggestions I'm willing to move forward with need work. This process would require a discussion between myself and the admins about how/why they would work, and changes from a board level would happen slowly. If you think I'm dismissing them, you're wrong. These changes won't happen overnight, nor do I expect them to.

On another note, I find it ironic that you're the SNR zealot in the thread. There've been so many complaints about your writing style, but you've put no effort into fixing it. To be fair, you have surprisingly insightful content in general, which I'm fully willing to recognize. Edit: You've stated multiple times that it's just your "style" and what comes off your fingers as easiest, and that's fine. I don't have any "beef" with you.

I know you have a tough job running a daycare, er, being a moderator on
a public forum.

Are you doing a bad job...no, you wouldn't be there long if you were.
Are you doing a good job...no, if you were, this thread wouldn't exist.
(take a minute, think about that)

This thread proves you or them/they are trying to do better, that is a good thing...good luck.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious I think things are mostly fine as they are, but there's this growing sense of ... bad that is brewing, and that's the reason I created the thread.

diredesire is a good moderator but I have a question : if moderating and supervising is such a hard task why don't you increase the number of moderators , there are many members who deserve that .

another question : recently many good posters with thousands of posts were banned for good , why don't you give them another chance so that they can return to their favourite forum ?

THANKS

I addressed this already, but I highly recommend that the "good" posters that were banned petition their cases to the admins. If they have had a chance to think about things and want a second shot, they'll be surprised at the responses they receive

As far as more moderators: I'm all for it. I'm not sure if you saw the last time user moderators were added, though... riots! everywhere!

 

[mikeler]

Hey DireDesire,

How do I report a Super Moderator for cursing in a thread?

 

[Gangsta]

Any response at all to my suggestion?

 

[diredesire]

Any response at all to my suggestion?

Hey, sorry about that. While it's annoying, it's not simple to enforce. The board is also accessible internationally, so I can't enforce "good english." Best I can say is bring it up with the user in question (Or you can try reporting, but it's not against the rules 2type liek dis)

Hey DireDesire,

How do I report a Super Moderator for cursing in a thread?

Same as you would anyone else, of course

 

[woodrow1029]

****

Hey DireDesire,

How do I report a Super Moderator for cursing in a thread?

Same as you would anyone else, of course

LOL

 

[BeHappy]

[*]Implement a post limit: I'm considering it, but it needs to be done in a way that makes sense. Limiting it in GPPD makes the most sense, but it may mean that unnecessary garbage spills over to other subforums, depending on how annoying a user will be.

That will kill traffic on the forum. In the pro match results section people make about 100 posts in those threads where they're watching the match and posting on it.

 

[reversef]

[*]Censor GOAT/choke/tank/****/other flame inciting words: Not a bad idea, but it's only a deterrant. Doesn't fix the problem. How many times do you see "****" on the forum? [Although, I actually think the word substitution of **** --> bunny is actually pretty good...][/LIST]As far as being unwilling to "implement" the above, I've already DONE some of the stuff above, and the suggestions I'm willing to move forward with need work. This process would require a discussion between myself and the admins about how/why they would work, and changes from a board level would happen slowly. If you think I'm dismissing them, you're wrong. These changes won't happen overnight, nor do I expect them to.

What about the word "cheater", what about banning doping accusations? I know that there is something called freedom of speech, but constantly posting libellous statements should not be allowed.

Diredesire, you can be sure that I understand how difficult your job is. We, tennis fans, tend to behave like children when our favourite players are concerned. We love, we hate, and we enjoy every cathartic minute of it. Some posters really go too far though.

 

[zagor]

Not realistic. While there's no definitive proof (nor will there ever be) that someone is an undisputed GOAT, choker, tanker, etc, people need to understand that discussion of these topics CAN be extremely valuable, and can serve to increase knowledge and understanding of your own "favorite" player. Debate is healthy, and it will only help expand your understanding, as long as it's not soiled with poorly reasoned arguments and name calling. I personally welcome debate, but not arguing.

The thing to keep in mind, though, is that there's no right answer, and it's OK to change your mind if someone exposes a weak point in your argument. If it makes you think about your stance, the debater is doing something right.

Heh, didn't expect a serious response. I was venting (I really think those words are waay overused here which annoys me) and trying to be funny rather than making an effort to pass it on as a viable solution or something.

Overall, the only problem I ever had with mods here was permanently banning Malakas/Sani, she was very loved here and IMO an asset to the forum and therefore IMO should have been merely temporarily banned.

Other than, I think you're doing a good job and regarding you specifically I think making this thread was a great gesture in itself, it's nice to have some further insight into have things work here rather than viewing mods as some invisible hand that guides us .

 

[Evan77]

What about the word "cheater", what about banning doping accusations? I know that there is something called freedom of speech, but constantly posting libellous statements should not be allowed.

Diredesire, you can be sure that I understand how difficult your job is. We, tennis fans, tend to behave like children when our favourite players are concerned. We love, we hate, and we enjoy every cathartic minute of it. Some posters really go too far though.

doping accusations are driving me crazy. I got so upset with another poster here who claimed how Nadal and Novak are moving so well (and won their slams, blah) just because they dope , without any understanding of how often these guys are tested etc. He is a Fed fan. So, I asked him, according to your theory, why do you think Fed is not doping too? I was sarcastic, asking him, how can anybody win 17 slams and not dope. Oh, no, he wouldn't discuss that possibility. pure trolling at it's best.

People shouldn't be allowed to accuse tennis players of doping without a solid proof. It is low and very primitive.

 

[Gangsta]

Hey, sorry about that. While it's annoying, it's not simple to enforce. The board is also accessible internationally, so I can't enforce "good english." Best I can say is bring it up with the user in question (Or you can try reporting, but it's not against the rules 2type liek dis)

Request noted - lets avoid naming names in this thread (policy compliance) -DD

 

[diredesire]

That will kill traffic on the forum. In the pro match results section people make about 100 posts in those threads where they're watching the match and posting on it.

Yep, this is why I'd only recommend implementing this limit in GPPD. Match discussion should be encouraged, and I've seen great play by play threads (they move way too quickly to actually attempt to follow, though). Like I said, things need to be hashed out and thought about before this can be a reality (if it ever does).

What about the word "cheater", what about banning doping accusations? I know that there is something called freedom of speech, but constantly posting libellous statements should not be allowed.

There's a fine line between trolling and discussing controversial statements. I personally don't interpret doping accusations as against the rules, BUT discussion of such generally leads to a flame war because there's a lot of conspiracy theories surrounding the discussion, none of which can be proven.

Furthermore, since this message board is not published as fact, and is only a discussion board, the content here should not be categorized as "libel." Defamation? Sure. However, if there is ever an actual discussion of doping, impacts on the pro world, and people can actually talk about it in a level headed manner, I have absolutely no problem with this. Flamewars are obviously going to be dealt with as they come (as usual!). With that said, if a discussion is attempted, and it devolves into a flame war, posters initiating said flame war will be dealt with as necessary (this includes overreactions, etc). The rules state not to get personal, but in my eyes, this is on a user-to-user level.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation

Heh, didn't expect a serious response. I was venting (I really think those words are waay overused here which annoys me) and trying to be funny rather than making an effort to pass it on as a viable solution or something.

Overall, the only problem I ever had with mods here was permanently banning Malakas/Sani, she was very loved here and IMO an asset to the forum and therefore IMO should have been merely temporarily banned.

Other than, I think you're doing a good job and regarding you specifically I think making this thread was a great gesture in itself, it's nice to have some further insight into have things work here rather than viewing mods as some invisible hand that guides us .

Thanks! Have malakas contact the admins, if you have any contact with her! If a user is/was a valuable contributor, chances are they'll get a second chance. Some old contributors are back in business just recently, if you look closely

doping accusations are driving me crazy. I got so upset with another poster here who claimed how Nadal and Novak are moving so well (and won their slams, blah) just because they dope , without any understanding of how often these guys are tested etc. He is a Fed fan. So, I asked him, according to your theory, why do you think Fed is not doping too? I was sarcastic, asking him, how can anybody win 17 slams and not dope. Oh, no, he wouldn't discuss that possibility. pure trolling at it's best.

People shouldn't be allowed to accuse tennis players of doping without a solid proof. It is low and very primitive.

Yep, it's trolling. It's honestly not useful to discuss ideas with people who aren't open to them.As far as "equality," though, there have actually been many implications over the course of time of Fed doping, too (I know because I have deleted many of these threads). It should be noted, though, that the topic itself isn't what got the thread deleted, it's the content/devolving into a flamewar that did.

When all is said and done, if you see a doping flamewar, just report it, and it'll disappear. I'm actually interested if a civil doping discussion thread COULD exist (I have my doubts). I think it'd be nice if there were less finger pointing, but it's not an outrageous discussion topic in my eyes (big picture, here, with no investment in any given player). Long story short: Ideally, it's OK to talk about, but it always ends up in a flame war (which is not something I can control), so in general, these threads get axed.

 

[valiant]

Heh, didn't expect a serious response. I was venting (I really think those words are waay overused here which annoys me) and trying to be funny rather than making an effort to pass it on as a viable solution or something.

Overall, the only problem I ever had with mods here was permanently banning Malakas/Sani, she was very loved here and IMO an asset to the forum and therefore IMO should have been merely temporarily banned.

Other than, I think you're doing a good job and regarding you specifically I think making this thread was a great gesture in itself, it's nice to have some further insight into have things work here rather than viewing mods as some invisible hand that guides us .

I thought the same. She was a very nice poster and I remember you even stopped posting after she was banned. It would be good to see her back. But its been such a long time and I doubt she will be back now.

 

[sdont]

I support a Malakas comeback too. :|

 

[BeHappy]

Censor GOAT/choke/tank/****/other flame inciting words: Not a bad idea

I don't know why you'd do that? Why can't people express their opinions about tennis?

 

[TeflonTom]

As far as being unwilling to "implement" the above, I've already DONE some of the stuff above, and the suggestions I'm willing to move forward with need work. This process would require a discussion between myself and the admins about how/why they would work, and changes from a board level would happen slowly. If you think I'm dismissing them, you're wrong. These changes won't happen overnight, nor do I expect them to.

fair. as long as u recognize that the problem exists n ur lookin 2 do somethin bout it, thats all i ask

i do think seperatin out the crap from the good discussions would be good. lotta forums either have fanboy forums 4 'light n fluffy' stuff bout a particular player, or conversely a news n analysis forum for serious discussion only

the forum is so busy that organisin the content better would help. i think u would actually get more discussion because with more forums, u get less turnover of threads on the front page, n therefore threads would stay visible for longer. atm if there are no posts in a thread for half a day or so it disappears off the front page n casual browsers dont see it

On another note, I find it ironic that you're the SNR zealot in the thread. There've been so many complaints about your writing style, but you've put no effort into fixing it. To be fair, you have surprisingly insightful content in general, which I'm fully willing to recognize. Edit: You've stated multiple times that it's just your "style" and what comes off your fingers as easiest, and that's fine. I don't have any "beef" with you.

i like postin how i post. its natural 2 me, theres a rhythm 2 it n it makes it nice n easy from my perspective 2 marshal my thoughts.

if its that big a deal i cn change it, but if the biggest problem is a buncha old fuddy duddies puttin me on their ignore list then it dont really bother me. imo any1 that closeminded prolly aint really worth interactin with anyway

 

[diredesire]

I support a Malakas comeback too. :|

I looked into it, some gears are turning.

I don't know why you'd do that? Why can't people express their opinions about tennis?

You seem to have lost a lot of context in that quote, but people can express their opinions at will/at ease, I just like the idea of a respectful (****-less/name calling-less) board.

fair. as long as u recognize that the problem exists n ur lookin 2 do somethin bout it, thats all i ask

i do think seperatin out the crap from the good discussions would be good. lotta forums either have fanboy forums 4 'light n fluffy' stuff bout a particular player, or conversely a news n analysis forum for serious discussion only

the forum is so busy that organisin the content better would help. i think u would actually get more discussion because with more forums, u get less turnover of threads on the front page, n therefore threads would stay visible for longer. atm if there are no posts in a thread for half a day or so it disappears off the front page n casual browsers dont see it

Sure, I see your point, and I understand where you're coming from, but I think making further subdivision (at least to the level that is being proposed) will fragment readership and cause a lot of head-scratching (and a ton of added work on our end just to maintain it). I'll roll a few scenarios around in the back of my mind to see if this can make more sense/how to apply it.

As far as serious analysis/discussion/news section, that's not a bad idea at all. Lets expand on this one: How do you define this subforum, and what material goes in it? What doesn't go here? How is it unique/how can it exist as a separate entity (does it make sense?). Others, feel free to chime in.

i like postin how i post. its natural 2 me, theres a rhythm 2 it n it makes it nice n easy from my perspective 2 marshal my thoughts.

if its that big a deal i cn change it, but if the biggest problem is a buncha old fuddy duddies puttin me on their ignore list then it dont really bother me. imo any1 that closeminded prolly aint really worth interactin with anyway

This is actually why I say I recognize you're an intelligent dude. You may not be the most intelligible dude, but you have some reasoning behind your words, and I can respect that. I do find it funny that you're actually an English Lit (?) major/grad, though (not in a derogatory way).

 

[BeHappy]

You seem to have lost a lot of context in that quote, but people can express their opinions at will/at ease, I just like the idea of a respectful (****-less/name calling-less) board.

Well I agree with that part that's why I left it out. I just wouldn't want people to be banned for saying Federer is the GOAT or even that Nadal is on steroids (I don't think he is).

It should be like if we were all in a bar talking about tennis, and if someone said Federer had no competition from 2004-2008 or something contentious, he wouldn't be hauled out by a bouncer, so why should that happen here? I'm speaking as much to the complainers in this thread as you with this post. I don't get the impression you want to change your posting style to a dictator. There's just a vocal minority in this thread that might give you the impression that's what this forum wants.

Can you imagine if a thread like this had been made 3 years ago? It would be 50 pages long in 5 minutes. Things are great the way they are. All these complainers just need to stop getting so upset that there are tennis fans with different opinions to theirs.

 

[10is]

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

 

[Bartelby]

Auctoritas non veritas facit legem.

 

[Evan77]

TeflonTom (love your nick btw, it's hilarious btw ,
I perfectly understand everything you are saying ... and I find it amusing. I like playing with words and twist things sometimes when I feel like it. sure you are allowed to express yourself in any way you want to.

the only problem is that there are so many guys here who simply do not understand what you are saying because English is not their first language. however, suit yourself ... just my 5 cents.

 

[TeflonTom]

As far as serious analysis/discussion/news section, that's not a bad idea at all. Lets expand on this one: How do you define this subforum, and what material goes in it? What doesn't go here? How is it unique/how can it exist as a separate entity (does it make sense?). Others, feel free to chime in.

its like art, i know it when i see it

basically its a forum for serious discussion. u police the quality of the op because it sets the tone for the thread. OP should actually put forward an argument on a topical issue that has more thought than 'fed has won more matches wearin a back brace than any other 31yo with twins therefore he is the greatest'. also u have stricter rules bout callin ppl ****s, usin derogatory nicknames 4 players, n lettin everythin devolve into a fed v nadal crapfight

outside of that forum, ppl can just start threads as normal. no censorship. if someone starts a crap thread in the serious forum, theres no punishment, its just moved to the other one. every1 is still free to post exactly what they do now, its just that ppl know theres somewhere they can get away from all the junk

bottom line tho is if u did it, it'd be mostly subjective, mostly based on mod judgement (therefore requirin more work) n a lotta ppl would disagree

so, not easy but feel like it would add a lot 2 the forum

I do find it funny that you're actually an English Lit (?) major/grad, though (not in a derogatory way).

prolly part o the problem. u read too much joyce n barthes u start playin around with stream o consciousness n semiotics even on teh internetz

the only problem is that there are so many guys here who simply do not understand what you are saying because English is not their first language.

fair call

 

[sureshs]

I'd like to disagree with some of you about KK. I know this is not relevant to this discussion, but he was hardly fair / objective. He posted in the R&R section quite a bit and forced his views on others, was very opinionated and could not tolerate an opposing view. OTOH, diredesire has a reputation of being fair ever since I've been on this forum.

This is exactly the type who should never have been allowed to moderate. It was a prime example of how "volunteers" step in to seize power by offering to do the work which other people don't.

 

[West Coast Ace]

I'd like to disagree with some of you about KK. I know this is not relevant to this discussion, but he was hardly fair / objective. He posted in the R&R section quite a bit and forced his views on others, was very opinionated and could not tolerate an opposing view. OTOH, diredesire has a reputation of being fair ever since I've been on this forum.

Amen, brother. KK was ridiculous. He was like the local cop driving 60 on surface streets to get to lunch; then giving out tickets to people going 40 in a 35 zone.

Looked like a 'down the line winner' to me Dire

Two minutes: brown nosing.

 

[sureshs]

diredesire, I'm going to point out that when Captain Karl was around as a moderator of this forum, he did not put up with nearly as much bullcrap as you do. You let so much slide it is absolutely hilarious (even from me, as I step over the line quite abit all the time because I KNOW you and the other moderators let alot slide).

When Captain Karl was indeed the moderator, he simply didn't allow any trolling to continue on, and would immediately punish anyone for even flame baiting people. IMO, what needs to be done is that you simply need to step up to the plate and lock the forum down. I think you're trying to let people slide with far too much, and it really does need to stop. Various "factions" on this forum have gone way too far on countless of occasions, and it is time that somebody puts an end to it.

People with limited intelligence and reading comprehension, and who cannot understand humor or subtlety, have np place in this forum. Nor religious fundamentalists posing as moderators. As such people go, they believe in freedom of speech as long as it is OK with them. Such people have personal likes and dislikes which interfere with their work and a vicious political agenda which is not obvious to most people here at first glance. Many of these right-wing hate mongers have infiltrated school boards, juries, and civic organizations by pretending to volunteer their services. They need to be exposed and rooted out as soon as possible.

 

[Sid_Vicious]

People with limited intelligence and reading comprehension, and who cannot understand humor or subtlety, have np place in this forum. Nor religious fundamentalists posing as moderators. As such people go, they believe in freedom of speech as long as it is OK with them. Such people have personal likes and dislikes which interfere with their work and a vicious political agenda which is not obvious to most people here at first glance. Many of these right-wing hate mongers have infiltrated school boards, juries, and civic organizations by pretending to volunteer their services. They need to be exposed and rooted out as soon as possible.

LOL. Who has unlimited intelligence on this forum?

 

[Sentinel]

I really wish TeflonTom would quit his spelling act. It's painful to read. It's not about people for whom English is not the first language. Some of us are not into 'chat' or whatever TT's lingo is, and find it very difficult to decipher. Normally, I would ignore his posts, but since Dire is responding to them, I have to make the effort.

There is not much effort required in typing "for" i/o 4, and "to" i/o 2. However, please understand this:

You type once, but what you've written is read many times. So it makes sense to spend an extra second writing clearly, and not have tens or hundreds of people spending time deciphering what you've written. An occasional abbreviation is okay but a sentence full of abbreviations is not.

I support a Malakas comeback too. :|

Not sure she'd want to come back. But we can try. I do recall the circumstances that led to the perma-ban. That said I can't believe she's really happy in that dump called MTF. Hope she comes back.