Rec Players Don't want to Win (Serve and Return + 1)

[MyFearHand]

I have a few hitting partners who love hitting crosscourts. Almost everyone else refuses to do anything besides sets. If you ever videotape a set and edit out the dead time you'll realize how few touches you really get on the ball during a set.

I don't think hitting crosscourts is that useful after a certain point. If you can hit 10 deep balls cross in a row, then you can hit 30. Better to stop a set after you hit 10 unless you're looking to get rhythm. A lot of shots in tennis are hit on the run anyways so grinding crosscourts isn't that useful.

Most rallies in tennis at every level are 4 shots or less. So if you really want to win, then you should just be practicing your serve, your return, your serve + 1 and your return + 1. If you have a willing partner then you can serve a bucket and have them either hand feed or basketfeed you the +1. Have a preset target and hit it there. You'll get way more reps than you would during a set and you're rehearsing what you want to do in a match. Then you do the same drill for them.

Sadly I can rarely, if ever, find anyone who is willing to do this.

Another big complaint for players is that they miss short balls. If you and a partner alternate hand feeding each other short balls at all sorts of different locations on the court you will get a bunch more reps in and you will stop missing as many short balls.

I wish people were willing to put this time in and enjoy the process of improvement rather than just wanting to play sets and spending half to more than half their time on court not hitting tennis balls.

Edit: My thoughts on practice and a video of some drills I use.

 

[Shroud]

I have a few hitting partners who love hitting crosscourts. Almost everyone else refuses to do anything besides sets. If you ever videotape a set and edit out the dead time you'll realize how few touches you really get on the ball during a set.

I don't think hitting crosscourts is that useful after a certain point. If you can hit 10 deep balls cross in a row, then you can hit 30. Better to stop a set after you hit 10 unless you're looking to get rhythm. A lot of shots in tennis are hit on the run anyways so grinding crosscourts isn't that useful.

Most rallies in tennis at every level are 4 shots or less. So if you really want to win, then you should just be practicing your serve, your return, your serve + 1 and your return + 1. If you have a willing partner then you can serve a bucket and have them either hand feed or basketfeed you the +1. Have a preset target and hit it there. You'll get way more reps than you would during a set and you're rehearsing what you want to do in a match. Then you do the same drill for them.

Sadly I can rarely, if ever, find anyone who is willing to do this.

Another big complaint for players is that they miss short balls. If you and a partner alternate hand feeding each other short balls a all sorts of different locations on the court you will get a bunch more reps in and you will stop missing as many short balls.

I wish people were willing to put this time in and enjoy the process of improvement rather than just wanting to play sets and spending half to more than half their time on court not hitting tennis balls.

well said! I see all kind of practice vids with a ball machine and the player just stands in place. Its appalling.

 

[MyFearHand]

well said! I see all kind of practice vids with a ball machine and the player just stands in place. Its appalling.

Obviously you need to get some technical proficiency doing things in this way, but at a certain point you need to learn to hit the ball on the run.

 

[Shroud]

Obviously you need to get some technical proficiency doing things in this way, but at a certain point you need to learn to hit the ball on the run.

Maybe. But the vids I have seen players really need to be moving...why break it down when all balls should be hit with some kind of movement....

 

[user92626]

I wish people were willing to put this time in and enjoy the process of improvement rather than just wanting to play sets and spending half to more than half their time on court not hitting tennis balls.

Give people a break. They know when they have reached their limit and they know what is the better return.

Playing sets has its thrill.

What would you do with a huge improvement? You gonna destroy your usual peers in singles? In dubs, you'll get assigned with the most crappy partner to even things out? You gonna seek out a different group to play with? That's alot of work and upset to your life.

 

[Curious]

What would you do with a huge improvement? You gonna destroy your usual peers in singles? In dubs, you'll get assigned with the most crappy partner to even things out? You gonna seek out a different group to play with? That's alot of work and upset to your life.

Exactly. That’s the only reason we stay at 3.5 level. We don’t want to suffer at 5.0!

 

[MyFearHand]

Give people a break. They know when they have reached their limit and they know what is the better return.

Playing sets has its thrill.

What would you do with a huge improvement? You gonna destroy your usual peers in singles? In dubs, you'll get assigned with the most crappy partner to even things out? You gonna seek out a different group to play with? That's alot of work and upset to your life.

Well hopefully I would beat better players in tournaments and leagues. In my current area finding people to play with is not that difficult and playing with new people is not particularly upsetting to me...

My point is basically that people SAY they want to improve but then just want to do the same old thing. Or they want some kind of a quick fix to a stroke. My point is that there is a simple solution to a lot of problems, just groove the fundamentals with another partner who wants to work on the fundamentals. Also try to make sure you are spending time on court in a way that lets you hit a lot of high quality reps and this is not through set play.

 

[user92626]

Well hopefully I would beat better players in tournaments and leagues. In my current area finding people to play with is not that difficult and playing with new people is not particularly upsetting to me...

My point is basically that people SAY they want to improve but then just want to do the same old thing. Or they want some kind of a quick fix to a stroke. My point is that there is a simple solution to a lot of problems, just groove the fundamentals with another partner who wants to work on the fundamentals. Also try to make sure you are spending time on court in a way that lets you hit a lot of high quality reps and this is not through set play.

Wanting something and actually taking action for it are two very different things, bruh. WE, you included, all want to be billionaire but none of us is taking any action because we all know the chance of success is zero.

It's like that with high level tennis, not to mention the benefits of high level tennis is much less clear than being a billionaire.

 

[nyta2]

I have a few hitting partners who love hitting crosscourts. Almost everyone else refuses to do anything besides sets. If you ever videotape a set and edit out the dead time you'll realize how few touches you really get on the ball during a set.

I don't think hitting crosscourts is that useful after a certain point. If you can hit 10 deep balls cross in a row, then you can hit 30. Better to stop a set after you hit 10 unless you're looking to get rhythm. A lot of shots in tennis are hit on the run anyways so grinding crosscourts isn't that useful.

Most rallies in tennis at every level are 4 shots or less. So if you really want to win, then you should just be practicing your serve, your return, your serve + 1 and your return + 1. If you have a willing partner then you can serve a bucket and have them either hand feed or basketfeed you the +1. Have a preset target and hit it there. You'll get way more reps than you would during a set and you're rehearsing what you want to do in a match. Then you do the same drill for them.

Sadly I can rarely, if ever, find anyone who is willing to do this.

Another big complaint for players is that they miss short balls. If you and a partner alternate hand feeding each other short balls a all sorts of different locations on the court you will get a bunch more reps in and you will stop missing as many short balls.

I wish people were willing to put this time in and enjoy the process of improvement rather than just wanting to play sets and spending half to more than half their time on court not hitting tennis balls.

same.
i used to be the cc guy... but after reading shauhnessy 4 shot analysis, i changed my practice time from:
80% groundies, 10% serve, 5% volley 5% oh
to approximately
35% groundies, 30% serve, 20% returns, 5% volley 5% oh 5% approach
and i think the return % could be upped, but it's hard to find folks that practice it

IMO i think folks are scared to have people practice against their serve, especially you junkers

 

[Curious]

and i think the return % could be upped, but it's hard to find folks that practice it

Wish you lived closer to me.

 

[MyFearHand]

Wanting something and actually taking action for it are two very different things, bruh. WE, you included, all want to be billionaire but none of us is taking any action because we all know the chance of success is zero.

It's like that with high level tennis, not to mention the benefits of high level tennis is much less clear than being a billionaire.

Yes of course, but in this case the actions you need to take to play high level tennis are fairly simple. It’s not really clear how one becomes a billionaire. But if you spend the time you play sets doing focused serve and return drills you will be a higher level than if you just played sets, with the same amount of time on court.

 

[nyta2]

Wanting something and actually taking action for it are two very different things, bruh. WE, you included, all want to be billionaire but none of us is taking any action because we all know the chance of success is zero.

none of us are taking action to be a billionaire, because we are wasting our time on ttw, and thinking about how to improve serve&return (rather than thinking about how to be a billionaire).
that said, wrt serve & return, i think we are trying figure out what the right action is, to improve it...
i'll still be broke, but maybe have a better return (but still a poor return wrt time spent studying (tennis) vs. billionairing)

 

[Dragy]

I get the “feed each other” practice, but why not just play practice points with one person serving 10-20 in a row and seeking the +1 and finish… then switch over?
Just some general agreement to not go for stupid screamer returns, and you have great mutual real practice

Well if I still struggle to hit a short incoming ball to save my life, some basket feeds will be needed first

 

[Dragy]

none of us are taking action to be a billionaire, because we are wasting our time on ttw, and thinking about how to improve serve&return (rather than thinking about how to be a billionaire).
that said, wrt serve & return, i think we are trying figure out what the right action is, to improve it...
i'll still be broke, but maybe have a better return (but still a poor return wrt time spent studying (tennis) vs. billionairing)

If we figure out how to earn a million easily (not even a billion), we can have a dedicated guy/gal to set up serve/return +1 drills for us and help us improve without much trouble

 

[user92626]

Yes of course, but in this case the actions you need to take to play high level tennis are fairly simple. It’s not really clear how one becomes a billionaire. But if you spend the time you play sets doing focused serve and return drills you will be a higher level than if you just played sets, with the same amount of time on court.

Many guys here would reach nursing home before they reach 5.0. Ask @Curious, who likes this topic, what he think his chance of reaching 5.0 is.

Forget high level tennis. Consider fitness & weights, how many can reach their ideal, desired weight which has clear, very valuable benefits (ie health) unlike high level tennis, and the steps are fair simple; but majority of people are overweight! Meaning, the odd against them is overwhelming. Any wonder?

 

[eah123]

Agree completely that Serve+1 and Return+1 are the most important stroke sequences in rec tennis.
Agree that most people never practice these in drills, not even in clinics taught by pros.

The reasoning I think is that serve is something that you can practice on your own, and generally a waste of clinic/practice partner time.
Return most people think is like a regular backhand/forehand (when in actuality it is a different stroke).

Another issue with practicing Serve+1 and Return+1 with a rec partner is that most people don't know how to feed balls properly. In truth, it takes a little bit of practice doing it, but it isn't that hard.

Who knew getting gud would be so hard?

 

[xFullCourtTenniSx]

People are stupid. People are lazy. People are etc...

People want to win, they just don't want to work for it.

People want immediate gratification. They don't want to drill or practice situations that are the most efficient in improving their game for some reason... Not immediate enough I guess... Rather learn to do nothing with the ball to avoid losing the point or miss the shot altogether when they actually try to do something with it.

 

[user92626]

Guys,

Calling people stupid, lazy isn't accurate, and disrespecting. If you look closer, you'll see many individuals who have spent thousands of dollars in coaching, really put in the time and discussion and videoing, and they themselves are high career professionals -- everything that would never say they're lazy or stupid, no?

But they're still at mediocre 3.5, 4.0 etc levels. Why?

I'm conveying the reality and advocating a sense of understanding that we should give to lower level rec players. I'm defending them. But I'm not getting any love. LOL. What I seem getting is mediocre rec players bashing other lower mediocre players!

 

[LeungD]

I wish people were willing to put this time in and enjoy the process of improvement rather than just wanting to play sets and spending half to more than half their time on court not hitting tennis balls.

I will speak for the "people" here.

I enjoy getting to a tennis court and do whatever I want. And I don't care for what people on the next court are doing, as long as it doesn't interfere with what I'm doing.

The "wishes" of judgmental people like you have no impact on what I do. But you can just be you.

 

[MyFearHand]

Many guys here would reach nursing home before they reach 5.0. Ask @Curious, who likes this topic, what he think his chance of reaching 5.0 is.

Forget high level tennis. Consider fitness & weights, how many can reach their ideal, desired weight which has clear, very valuable benefits (ie health) unlike high level tennis, and the steps are fair simple; but majority of people are overweight! Meaning, the odd against them is overwhelming. Any wonder?

I think you're misunderstanding my point. Yes most people will not reach 5.0. But I do think practicing serve and return and the +1 is one of the fastest ways to make your level higher once you have a certain technical proficiency. A lot of people are overweight because they have to change a bunch of habits. I'm only suggesting changing one habit: play less sets and work on serve and return more. And I'm only suggesting it for people who really want to improve. If you're happy with your level so be it.

 

[MyFearHand]

I will speak for the "people" here.

I enjoy getting to a tennis court and do whatever I want. And I don't care for what people on the next court are doing, as long as it doesn't interfere with what I'm doing.

The "wishes" of judgmental people like you have no impact on what I do. But you can just be you.

Perhaps I phrased things too harshly. What I meant is, I wish I had a few likeminded hitting partners so I could work on this more and improve faster. If people are happy with their level of play that's fine too. But this is the tips/instructions forum so presumably those who frequent it DO want to improve.

 

[user92626]

I think you're misunderstanding my point. Yes most people will not reach 5.0. But I do think practicing serve and return and the +1 is one of the fastest ways to make your level higher once you have a certain technical proficiency. A lot of people are overweight because they have to change a bunch of habits. I'm only suggesting changing one habit: play less sets and work on serve and return more. And I'm only suggesting it for people who really want to improve. If you're happy with your level so be it.

And I'm telling you.. improvement is much harder to happen than you suggest. I use evidence of the effort that many people use that is far more than "practicing serve and return and the +1"

 

[LeungD]

But this is the tips/instructions forum so presumably those who frequent it DO want to improve.

You'd be surprised. People come here mostly for validation.

 

[lockbox]

Agreed on utilizing serve/return +1 as a practice routine, as well as cones/footwork drills in conjunction with the ball machine as a routine for those aiming to improve. Also, agreed that not everyone wants to improve.

BUT, for those who do want to improve, what other drills and practice routines does the brain trust recommend? What are some of your favorites to drill with partners on?

 

[AnyPUG]

I will speak for the "people" here.

I enjoy getting to a tennis court and do whatever I want. And I don't care for what people on the next court are doing, as long as it doesn't interfere with what I'm doing.

The "wishes" of judgmental people like you have no impact on what I do. But you can just be you.

Good reality check here. Rec Tennis is recreational tennis. Serve and return practice is not fun. It's fun to have co-operative baseline hitting and good cardio.
Most folks don't need the "work" of serve and return for no money after a long day of work that pays the bills.
I think folks who focus on winning in rec tennis by being pushers or working hard at their game are seriously mislead/ill informed- they are not going anywhere and in addition **** off many around them being selective in who they hit with etc. But nobody is perfect and need to work/play with who we got.
The focus of rec tennis should be fun and exercise and keeping good health/injury free. The very thought of winning should not even enter the lexicon of rec tennis.

 

[onehandbh]

IMO i think folks are scared to have people practice against their serve, especially you junkers

When I was a junior I had a good "american twist" kick serve. During tournament matches, I'd purposely never hit kick serves during warmup. Just Slice and top-slice. Then I could throw it in on a service game where I got behind as a changeup/surprise serve and come to the net.

 

[Curious]

@user92626
I really don’t get your point. Should one not try to improve or try less or do you think it’s impossible to improve so it’s waste of time? And you somewhat gave me as an example above. Is it because I’m a celebrity here or something else?
Yes, my chance of getting to 5.0 is zero and 4.5 is pretty remote but I’ll be happy to reach 4.0 which I see very reachable in my case. I just don’t want to stay at 3.5 coz
-I’m sick of facing weird unintended balls
- 4.0 is simply more satisfying and enjoyable tennis

 

[user92626]

@Curious
What's not to get?

FearHand started out implying people do not enjoy or want to improve (especially his way) and playing sets is a waste of time. Then, he said the journey to get to higher tennis is "fairly simple".

xfullcourt didn't beat around the bush, drove the point home by asserting people are stupid, lazy, etc.

Let me ask you @Curious, are you stupid, lazy, not putting in good amount of effort as you haven't reached 4.5 or whatever higher level that you desire to reach? Do you want people to think you're stupid, lazy, etc....?

I'm defending people like yourself, well, everyone who's still playing this crappy tennis cuz no matter where they are, there's always someone who's better, and if this mindset is allowed, then everyone's lazy, stupid.

I'm not against wanting to improve, encouraging people to improve, but I'm against labeling those not improving or setting, wanting to play sets as lazy, etc.

 

[user92626]

I enjoy getting to a tennis court and do whatever I want.

The focus of rec tennis should be fun and exercise and keeping good health/injury free.

Good reminders. Hence, my likes!

MyFearHand said:
I wish people were willing to put this time in and enjoy the process of improvement rather than just wanting to play sets and spending half to more than half their time on court not hitting tennis balls.

It strikes me as odd and got me started was this guy's implying that playing sets or doing whatever the heck people do at the court is not enjoying. Only his way is enjoying...

 

[user92626]

@Curious

You get my point now? Post #29. I can't make it simpler than that.

As for mentioning you, that's cuz you threw your weight,eh likes, on MyFearHand's responses to me, twice. Surely you do have tons of opposing opinions that I can count on to hear. Not your celebrity.

 

[Curious]

@Curious

You get my point now? Post #29. I can't make it simpler than that.

As for mentioning you, that's cuz you threw your weight,eh likes, on MyFearHand's responses to me, twice. Surely you do have tons of opposing opinions that I can count on to hear. Not your celebrity.

I don’t think there’s anything to feel offended by what @MyFearHand said. You’re just too salty!
I agree with everything he said and I’ve had no impression in the past that he’d mean anything insulting or disrespectful. Anyway also yes I’ve been stupid and probably didn’t put enough/proper effort along the way. So I take no offence there. I reject being lazy though. Mind you, that’s also true coz I’ve seen lots of lazy people in my tennis circle.

 

[MyFearHand]

I don’t think there’s anything to feel offended by what @MyFearHand said. You’re just too salty!
I agree with everything he said and I’ve had no impression in the past that he’d mean anything insulting or disrespectful. Anyway also yes I’ve been stupid and probably didn’t put enough/proper effort along the way. So I take no offence there. I reject being lazy though. Mind you, that’s also true coz I’ve seen lots of lazy people in my tennis circle.

I clearly came on a bit too strong about my point. I’m just as guilty as most people for practicing the way I’m saying is not the best way to improve. Sets are more fun, I get it.

I’ve watched your videos over the past few years and you’ve clearly improved quite a bit. All of my improvement over the years has been more or less from just playing sets, drop feed games and occasionally crosscourts.

I’m just saying that’s not the fastest way to get better. I know you already got my point though. What really got me thinking about this (and I know this isn’t a novel idea) is when I started editing out dead time in videos. When you play a game of pickup basketball you’re playing basketball most of the time. Not so in tennis. Maximize the touches you get on the ball during practice and beyond that try to hit each ball with a purpose (targets).

 

[MyFearHand]

Agreed on utilizing serve/return +1 as a practice routine, as well as cones/footwork drills in conjunction with the ball machine as a routine for those aiming to improve. Also, agreed that not everyone wants to improve.

BUT, for those who do want to improve, what other drills and practice routines does the brain trust recommend? What are some of your favorites to drill with partners on?

I like to drill the shots that tend to be universal problem points. Some of these include overheads, volleys, and short balls. One great drill for overheads is to start on the service line on one side, your partner at the baseline diagonal from you. You feed the ball cross and your partner must lob on the first ball. Play the point out crosscourt. Since you start with an overhead they tend to be forced to lob again so you get a lot of overheads pretty quickly. Since you’re just playing crosscourt it’s easier for them to defend so you get a bunch of reps and also forces you to aim your overhead.

 

[FiddlerDog]

Yes, most people just rally mindlessly for 90 minutes and never experience real tennis.

This chirping crickets thread proves how rarely tennis players practice (basically, never)

Favorite hopper drills

Found a new hitting partner who loves to drill. I fed him a hopper of shoulder high short sitter approach shots. I would then feed a 2nd volley ball if I couldn’t get the ball back in play. I noticed his first move towards the ball was lazy and slow. I told him to explode off the...

tt.tennis-warehouse.com

There are people out there who are willing to practice. You need to find them.

 

[user92626]

I don’t think there’s anything to feel offended by what @MyFearHand said. You’re just too salty!
I agree with everything he said and I’ve had no impression in the past that he’d mean anything insulting or disrespectful. Anyway also yes I’ve been stupid and probably didn’t put enough/proper effort along the way. So I take no offence there. I reject being lazy though. Mind you, that’s also true coz I’ve seen lots of lazy people in my tennis circle.

I'm no fragile violet.

There's nothing you guys said that I think are insulting thus have to be offended. I was just making conversation and offering opposing opinion, a straight forward one It's mildly interesting to me that you didn't get my simple idea given your background.

 

[Curious]

It's mildly interesting to me that you didn't get my simple idea given your background.

You’re attempting to make it look like I didn’t understand your idea although you know it’s simply me disagreeing or having a different opinion from yours.

 

[ubercat]

@Curious I ve been practicing my weird intended balls. And I did play my first singles in a year this week so hopefully we can have a hit.

 

[user92626]

You’re attempting to make it look like I didn’t understand your idea although you know it’s simply me disagreeing or having a different opinion from yours.

Good. You don't have to agree, as long as you understand it.

So you agree with FearHand that doing anything else other than his way is not enjoying?

 

[user92626]

People are stupid. People are lazy. People are etc...

People want to win, they just don't want to work for it.

I reject being lazy though. Mind you, that’s also true coz I’ve seen lots of lazy people in my tennis circle.

Too bad, you're already considered lazy . ..

 

[ubercat]

TBH yes OPs right that would improve your game. But it's just about impossible to find a hitting partner who s interested. I would get a ball machine. But given I can't find the time/motivation to do a weekly wall session when it's only 3 km away I will keep going for the low hanging. Most of my errors are into the net. If I can remember to closely watch the damn ball and start my swing a foot lower than the ball they don't happen

 

[Curious]

So you agree with FearHand that doing anything else other than his way is not enjoying?

Hmm. Enjoyment is an interesting topic and obviously quite subjective. A few weeks ago I was playing a tight UTR match and on the next court some 70 something folks were playing doubles. I was looking at them frequently as it really caught my attention. They were having so much fun, both playing and chatting, joking around at the same time. I thought to myself: I’ve never played tennis with that much relaxation and fun. People are different. I want to improve, I get tight, I want to win, my ego is definitely involved in this. I don’t think I can ever change that but I’m getting much better at dealing with it mentally as I play more matches recently.

 

[user92626]

Hmm. Enjoyment is an interesting topic and obviously quite subjective. A few weeks ago I was playing a tight UTR match and on the next court some 70 something folks were playing doubles. I was looking at them frequently as it really caught my attention. They were having so much fun, both playing and chatting, joking around at the same time. I thought to myself: I’ve never played tennis with that much relaxation and fun. People are different. I want to improve, I get tight, I want to win, my ego is definitely involved in this. I don’t think I can ever change that but I’m getting much better at dealing with it mentally as I play more matches recently.

I see that alot at my site. That's why I have changed and kinda leaned more toward "fun, relaxed" as opposed to competitive which would require me to focus intensely and inevitably annoyed, frustrated on mistakes.

Coincidentally I just got back from playing earlier. I teamed up with a very bad partner, level wise. He's uncharacteristically bad and that's the frustrating part. However, I chose to just play and mind my own hitting and I really had a good time.

That's just how things are. Timing and context!

I don't know how much better I can get, skill-wise. But where I lack progress, I make up in patience and positive outlook for myself. A different kind of progress!

 

[Curious]

I see that alot at my site. That's why I have changed and kinda leaned more toward "fun, relaxed" as opposed to competitive which would require me to focus intensely and inevitably annoyed, frustrated on mistakes.

Coincidentally I just got back from playing earlier. I teamed up with a very bad partner, level wise. He's uncharacteristically bad and that's the frustrating part. However, I chose to just play and mind my own hitting and I really had a good time.

That's just how things are. Timing and context!

I don't know how much better I can get, skill-wise. But where I lack progress, I make up in patience and positive outlook for myself. A different kind of progress!

Yeah people are different. I’m so addicted to competing, trying to improve, to win, to sort things out that I’ve ditched doubles completely. That’s not enough thrill for me.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Yes of course, but in this case the actions you need to take to play high level tennis are fairly simple. It’s not really clear how one becomes a billionaire. But if you spend the time you play sets doing focused serve and return drills you will be a higher level than if you just played sets, with the same amount of time on court.

I disagree. I think I stand more tangible odds at becoming a billionaire than I do at becoming a high level tennis player. I am a bright person but not a very athletic one. So even though the route to high level tennis is relatively simple and clear, it is not attainable. Heck i can't even serve a bucket of tennis balls without some part of my body breaking down.

But to become a billionaire I just need one really great and unique idea and convince a handful of people of it's greatness. The richest guy on the planet is basically a glorified delivery boy.

Success requires a great mind or a great body, or both and then the gumption to maximize that talent. Most of us fail at any one of those checkpoints. We aren't smart enough, athletic enough or driven enough.

 

[Dragy]

Hmm. Enjoyment is an interesting topic and obviously quite subjective. A few weeks ago I was playing a tight UTR match and on the next court some 70 something folks were playing doubles. I was looking at them frequently as it really caught my attention. They were having so much fun, both playing and chatting, joking around at the same time. I thought to myself: I’ve never played tennis with that much relaxation and fun. People are different. I want to improve, I get tight, I want to win, my ego is definitely involved in this. I don’t think I can ever change that but I’m getting much better at dealing with it mentally as I play more matches recently.

It’s extremely addictive and exciting to be in competition, to feel the pressure of bigger points, to play deciding games and points. Once I got it, it’s only frustrating for some time after loss, but great overall. And you never get that kind of joy from chatting and staying relaxed. Not that it’s worse, just different.

Choose what you love, and organize your tennis around it. It’s absolutely legit to invest time into getting better as an adult low/mid level rec player. As it is to just have fun playing the game. If you don’t appreciate the latter crowd, just limit your interaction with them and do your tennis within competitive and improving community

Back to original topic @MyFearHand , interpretation of O’Shaughnessy statistics may be a bit less straight:
- What level in discussion? Less than 4 shots = early errors. Just don’t miss - hence groundstroke rally
- Returning mediocre to weak serves comes down to focus. Not that different from regular groundies, actually
- From what level it’s opponent taking advantage and finishing which is making points below 4 shots rather than errors?

I rely on serving a lot and generally like the +1 concept. But I also see how more prolonged point development is used by better players, and for me as well. It’s not unlikely playing on slower clay courts has its role though

 

[MyFearHand]

I disagree. I think I stand more tangible odds at becoming a billionaire than I do at becoming a high level tennis player. I am a bright person but not a very athletic one. So even though the route to high level tennis is relatively simple and clear, it is not attainable. Heck i can't even serve a bucket of tennis balls without some part of my body breaking down.

But to become a billionaire I just need one really great and unique idea and convince a handful of people of it's greatness. The richest guy on the planet is basically a glorified delivery boy.

Success requires a great mind or a great body, or both and then the gumption to maximize that talent. Most of us fail at any one of those checkpoints. We aren't smart enough, athletic enough or driven enough.

Well aside from body concerns, I think most people can reach a higher level than they play in a fairly simple way. Whether or not that is a HIGH level is pretty subjective.

 

[MyFearHand]

It’s extremely addictive and exciting to be in competition, to feel the pressure of bigger points, to play deciding games and points. Once I got it, it’s only frustrating for some time after loss, but great overall. And you never get that kind of joy from chatting and staying relaxed. Not that it’s worse, just different.

Choose what you love, and organize your tennis around it. It’s absolutely legit to invest time into getting better as an adult low/mid level rec player. As it is to just have fun playing the game. If you don’t appreciate the latter crowd, just limit your interaction with them and do your tennis within competitive and improving community

Back to original topic @MyFearHand , interpretation of O’Shaughnessy statistics may be a bit less straight:
- What level in discussion? Less than 4 shots = early errors. Just don’t miss - hence groundstroke rally
- Returning mediocre to weak serves comes down to focus. Not that different from regular groundies, actually
- From what level it’s opponent taking advantage and finishing which is making points below 4 shots rather than errors?

I rely on serving a lot and generally like the +1 concept. But I also see how more prolonged point development is used by better players, and for me as well. It’s not unlikely playing on slower clay courts has its role though

I believe the most common rally length is 1, a missed return. So I still think working on serve and return at least is very important. I think that hitting a bunch of returns in a row will help improve your focus and ability to make them.

Well in my experience the people who are kicking my butt are really taking advantage of the first ball in the point. When I start out ahead in the point I tend to win, but most of the time I start behind. Granted I'm a 5.0 level player so the people who are kicking my butt are very good.

When I say practice serve + 1 I also mean practicing a really deep return and how to neutralize that as well. Not just the aggressive serve + 1. I will post a video of what I'm talking about soon.

 

[StringSnapper]

I have a few hitting partners who love hitting crosscourts. Almost everyone else refuses to do anything besides sets. If you ever videotape a set and edit out the dead time you'll realize how few touches you really get on the ball during a set.

I don't think hitting crosscourts is that useful after a certain point. If you can hit 10 deep balls cross in a row, then you can hit 30. Better to stop a set after you hit 10 unless you're looking to get rhythm. A lot of shots in tennis are hit on the run anyways so grinding crosscourts isn't that useful.

Most rallies in tennis at every level are 4 shots or less. So if you really want to win, then you should just be practicing your serve, your return, your serve + 1 and your return + 1. If you have a willing partner then you can serve a bucket and have them either hand feed or basketfeed you the +1. Have a preset target and hit it there. You'll get way more reps than you would during a set and you're rehearsing what you want to do in a match. Then you do the same drill for them.

Sadly I can rarely, if ever, find anyone who is willing to do this.

Another big complaint for players is that they miss short balls. If you and a partner alternate hand feeding each other short balls at all sorts of different locations on the court you will get a bunch more reps in and you will stop missing as many short balls.

I wish people were willing to put this time in and enjoy the process of improvement rather than just wanting to play sets and spending half to more than half their time on court not hitting tennis balls.

I agree with the premise serve +1 and return +1 are the most important shots.

However, serving a bucket followed by a hand feed doesn't mimmck this that much

Firstly, new fast balls are used in matches
2ndly, you don't get a hand feed in a match

3rdly, where's the return being practiced here?

 

[mcs1970]

I have a few hitting partners who love hitting crosscourts. Almost everyone else refuses to do anything besides sets. If you ever videotape a set and edit out the dead time you'll realize how few touches you really get on the ball during a set.

I don't think hitting crosscourts is that useful after a certain point. If you can hit 10 deep balls cross in a row, then you can hit 30. Better to stop a set after you hit 10 unless you're looking to get rhythm. A lot of shots in tennis are hit on the run anyways so grinding crosscourts isn't that useful.

Most rallies in tennis at every level are 4 shots or less. So if you really want to win, then you should just be practicing your serve, your return, your serve + 1 and your return + 1. If you have a willing partner then you can serve a bucket and have them either hand feed or basketfeed you the +1. Have a preset target and hit it there. You'll get way more reps than you would during a set and you're rehearsing what you want to do in a match. Then you do the same drill for them.

Sadly I can rarely, if ever, find anyone who is willing to do this.

Another big complaint for players is that they miss short balls. If you and a partner alternate hand feeding each other short balls at all sorts of different locations on the court you will get a bunch more reps in and you will stop missing as many short balls.

I wish people were willing to put this time in and enjoy the process of improvement rather than just wanting to play sets and spending half to more than half their time on court not hitting tennis balls.

Rec players span a variety of levels and goals. Even kids who one day might be greats are rec players but their goals and practices are different from fat Bob looking for some fun and exercise while just looking to be decent in the few hours he devotes to tennis

This forum has some very good players who post but it is mostly folks who are looking for a quick fix to their problems given that they are not devoting a lot of time playing tennis. It is another thing we do seem to have a lot of time talking tennis though

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

I love the fat Bobs.