Rec S&V on clay [video]

[J011yroger]

If a player isn't able to apply enough service pressure to get some weak returns, do you give up SV for that game? For example, Navigator wasn't getting a lot of weak returns off of his hitting partner. It also seemed like SV players don't necessarily run up on their second serve?

Another thing I noticed is where do SV people aim their first volley? Navigator seemed to put most of his first volleys into the center of the court where it seemed like his hitting partner was then able to tee off. Maybe that's part of serve pressure where if you can't get enough pressure on the serve, you won't get a weaker return to put your opponent on the run/defensive off of the first volley?

You do whatever gives you the best chance of winning. If your baseline game is worse than your S&V then you keep coming. Sometimes you are going to get your butt kicked, it's happened to me and it will happen to you.

W/R/T the first volley you ideally want to mix up your deep corners and occasionally go right at them, combined with mixing in knifed skidding and slow floaty volleys and harder flat ones. If the return is slower or higher allowing you to close enough you can knock off or angle off the first volley eliminating the need for a second.

J

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

If a player isn't able to apply enough service pressure to get some weak returns, do you give up SV for that game? For example, Navigator wasn't getting a lot of weak returns off of his hitting partner. It also seemed like SV players don't necessarily run up on their second serve?

I'll probably tinker with my serve for the first set. If I lose convincingly, I will stop coming in on everything and become much more judicious. Of course, that means I have to be consistent enough on the BL to wait for the opportunity and that's a weak point for me.

I'm more likely to start staying back on my 2nd serve if my opponent is returning well.

Another thing I noticed is where do SV people aim their first volley? Navigator seemed to put most of his first volleys into the center of the court where it seemed like his hitting partner was then able to tee off. Maybe that's part of serve pressure where if you can't get enough pressure on the serve, you won't get a weaker return to put your opponent on the run/defensive off of the first volley?

Actually, hitting to the center can be a sound idea: I'm not concerned as much about my opponent's ability to tee off [ie hit it hard] vs his ability to use angles. The more in the center I hit, the less angle he has to work with. This can be problematic for people who hit flat.

Some people are also better at hitting on-the-run than they are stationary; another point to consider.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

You do whatever gives you the best chance of winning. If your baseline game is worse than your S&V then you keep coming. Sometimes you are going to get your butt kicked, it's happened to me and it will happen to you.

Allow me to modify that: it's not just a matter of which element of my game is stronger, it's how that stacks up against my opponent.

If my BL game is worse than my net game but it's still better than my opponent's BL game, I should stay on the BL.

W/R/T the first volley you ideally want to mix up your deep corners and occasionally go right at them, combined with mixing in knifed skidding and slow floaty volleys and harder flat ones. If the return is slower or higher allowing you to close enough you can knock off or angle off the first volley eliminating the need for a second.
J

Agreed. My only exception would be if you can keep hitting winners/forcing shots using the same volley every time. If that's the case, however, you're probably playing someone at least a level below you.

 

[J011yroger]

Allow me to modify that: it's not just a matter of which element of my game is stronger, it's how that stacks up against my opponent.

If my BL game is worse than my net game but it's still better than my opponent's BL game, I should stay on the BL.



Agreed. My only exception would be if you can keep hitting winners/forcing shots using the same volley every time. If that's the case, however, you're probably playing someone at least a level below you.

Sure, adjust for conditions and opponent.

J

 

[navigator]

If you get a weak ROS, change gears on the fly and hit the easier volley closer to the net... but no artificial goal of hitting all 1st volleys inside the service line. I'm talking in general ... not this little terror you are playing. She is making you bring all you got ... try playing folks your age with no return of serve.

Totally with you on that one... ha!

I realize you have a great practice partner there, and you are working on your game. But hypothetically ... if you were trying to beat her I would just tell myself "if she gets to hit balls in the strike zone without moving much ... you lose. ". That would be the same for s&v or from the baseline. Girl has skills. I played a girl that was a recent state champion when I was in my early 20s. She was better than me in every single way ... except I was faster, and my serve was good enough (more than she was seeing in girls competition) to bother her. Spin, etc on serves was something she wasn't used to. Sometimes you can "out run" the better skills. Sometimes NOT!!!

When we play sets I don't S&V much. Maybe once a game, sometimes less. Her return is too good. You probably noticed that she almost never blocks a serve back - it's a full cut almost every time. She's the best returner by a wide margin that I play against on any regular basis. Which is why it's so helpful to do a full S&V session with her from time to time.

When we play sets it's about even - we generally split sets. (She doesn't move really well.) But that's on the clay court and she doesn't practice much. If she were to practice properly for a month and we played on a hard court, it wouldn't be close.

I watched your video playing ... wasn't it Matt on clay. It took a pretty big FH to get it past you from the baseline, and most rec players don't have that fh on neutral balls. Man... I wish I did.

I'm going to have problems with anyone who plays effective first strike tennis (lots of people play ineffective first strike tennis - they're not a problem) - that is, a combination of (1) big serve, and (2) big FH and/or (3) big net game. Matt has the first two, plus youth. That's always going to be a tough match-up for me.

 

[navigator]

If a player isn't able to apply enough service pressure to get some weak returns, do you give up SV for that game? For example, Navigator wasn't getting a lot of weak returns off of his hitting partner. It also seemed like SV players don't necessarily run up on their second serve?

Another thing I noticed is where do SV people aim their first volley? Navigator seemed to put most of his first volleys into the center of the court where it seemed like his hitting partner was then able to tee off. Maybe that's part of serve pressure where if you can't get enough pressure on the serve, you won't get a weaker return to put your opponent on the run/defensive off of the first volley?

I agree - I don't normally S&V much against this woman when we play sets (as noted above). I also very rarely S&V after a second serve outside of doubles. This was just a S&V exercise. I was putting a number of those volleys in the center of the court because... that's all I could do give my position and my opponent's return. Trust me, it wasn't by choice. Typically, the better my opponent, the less I S&V (because these folks tend to have better returns). But I like to have it in my back pocket to change things up even when I'm playing someone who's pretty good.

 

[FiReFTW]

Excellent video quality, is that 4k?

 

[navigator]

Excellent video quality, is that 4k?

I assume you're being facetious... I don't even know what 4k is...

 

[FiReFTW]

I assume you're being facetious... I don't even know what 4k is...

Why yes I am, I always enjoy videos of fellow posters or even random ones posted on the forum, but its rly good to watch some decent quality videos pretty bad quality on ur video, im sure your phone can do better, were you trying to save space?

4k is ultra high quality btw

heres an example picture

http://www.luisasempere.com/wp-cont...lassic-motive-collection-decoration-water.jpg

 

[navigator]

Why yes I am, I always enjoy videos of fellow posters or even random ones posted on the forum, but its rly good to watch some decent quality videos pretty bad quality on ur video, im sure your phone can do better, were you trying to save space?

Has nothing to do with saving space. See posts #33 and #38 for an explanation. Has nothing to do with the (original) video quality, either, it's the medium I use to post it. I'm lazy and it ain't gonna change. I like watching videos too. Please point me to the high quality videos of your playing. Hopefully you can teach me something.

 

[FiReFTW]

Has nothing to do with saving space. See posts #33 and #38 for an explanation. Has nothing to do with the (original) video quality, either, it's the medium I use to post it. I'm lazy and it ain't gonna change. I like watching videos too. Please point me to the high quality videos of your playing. Hopefully you can teach me something.

Why do people from america always take things so serious and personal. I was merely joking, and also pointed out that maybe next time would be cool to post a better quality video.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Totally with you on that one... ha!



When we play sets I don't S&V much. Maybe once a game, sometimes less. Her return is too good. You probably noticed that she almost never blocks a serve back - it's a full cut almost every time. She's the best returner by a wide margin that I play against on any regular basis. Which is why it's so helpful to do a full S&V session with her from time to time.

When we play sets it's about even - we generally split sets. (She doesn't move really well.) But that's on the clay court and she doesn't practice much. If she were to practice properly for a month and we played on a hard court, it wouldn't be close.



I'm going to have problems with anyone who plays effective first strike tennis (lots of people play ineffective first strike tennis - they're not a problem) - that is, a combination of (1) big serve, and (2) big FH and/or (3) big net game. Matt has the first two, plus youth. That's always going to be a tough match-up for me.

Splitting sets with that young lady is impressive. Obviously it would be more informative to watch a set, but based on ros and total control on passing shots gal has game. Keep her moving or say "good shot".

 

[navigator]

Why do people from america always take things so serious and personal. I was merely joking, and also pointed out that maybe next time would be cool to post a better quality video.

I was merely joking, too. I've actually seen your video.

 

[navigator]

Splitting sets with that young lady is impressive. Obviously it would be more informative to watch a set, but based on ros and total control on passing shots gal has game. Keep her moving or say "good shot".

I might record a match with her at some point, but... I'm only good for a few videos a year. I do one, then I get lazy for a while.

 

[The Vitamin L]

Nice hands! Looks like the practice is working.