Reclassing and UTR for college

[Tennis2349]

We'll see if it works in 2028. One little rule change could tank it all.

I think they should change the rules. It’s getting ridiculous. Kids that have zero chance of playing college tennis are even doing it as parents are just “hoping” some miracle happens.

I think a lot changed after Covid, and there are lots of “homeschools” in business that cater to student athletes.

 

[jcgatennismom]

You have zero clue as to what you are talking about.

you can go to TRN and notice that only 5 stars and up play d1.

How many 5 stars per grade? 75.

They almost all reclassed. Along with other 3 and 4 stars, although at a lower rate.

Kind of strange I see all my son’s friends doing it, yet you are saying it isn’t happening. Guess you haven’t been around junior tennis for a while.

It’s really simple. If you are a 3 star, let’s say 250 in the country, and you reclass, you will be a 5 star. A full extra year is huge.
You also have a full extra year to improve your utr

My son played his last college match almost 3 years ago. When he was playing Southern juniors, out of the class year ahead of him, his year, and 2 years behind him, only one boy reclassified. Hard to believe so many more do now. Somehow my son reached 5 star, played D1 after attending regular high school and playing for HS team. Plenty of 4 stars ended up playing MM D1 and I know of 1 4 star from son’s class who ended up playing #1 for a SEC school. Instead of complaining, take advantage of opportunities to play older kids, current collegians during the summer-PTT events, men’s opens, etc. Find former D1 collegians to hit with-there are plenty on ALTA AA-1 and AA-2 teams. Occasionally those teams will allow 17 or 18yo’s on team. If a player has talent, a good work ethic, good coaching, I believe he will be able to find a roster spot-might be MM but that can be a great experience too. At least it is easier to transfer now if a player’s original school is not the best fit. Just a few years back, there were a lot more kids finishing HS early to start college at 17 at what would have been 2nd semester of their sr year, than kids reclassed and playing as 19yo freshmen

 

[Tennis2349]

My son played his last college match almost 3 years ago. When he was playing Southern juniors, out of the class year ahead of him, his year, and 2 years behind him, only one boy reclassified. Hard to believe so many more do now. Somehow my son reached 5 star, played D1 after attending regular high school and playing for HS team. Plenty of 4 stars ended up playing MM D1 and I know of 1 4 star from son’s class who ended up playing #1 for a SEC school. Instead of complaining, take advantage of opportunities to play older kids, current collegians during the summer-PTT events, men’s opens, etc. Find former D1 collegians to hit with-there are plenty on ALTA AA-1 and AA-2 teams. Occasionally those teams will allow 17 or 18yo’s on team. If a player has talent, a good work ethic, good coaching, I believe he will be able to find a roster spot-might be MM but that can be a great experience too. At least it is easier to transfer now if a player’s original school is not the best fit. Just a few years back, there were a lot more kids finishing HS early to start college at 17 at what would have been 2nd semester of their sr year, than kids reclassed and playing as 19yo freshmen

Ok. Now do the math. Your son graduated college 3 years ago. That’s 2022. So he was the class of 2018? And in the 8th grade in 2013-14? That’s over a decade ago.

I am talking about the classes of 2029 and 2030.

That’s a 12 year difference. It doesn’t really matter if people keep saying “I can’t believe so many more kids reclass / homeschool from 10-15 years ago. My little Johnny played college tennis after high school tennis ”. It’s irrelevant.

More or less that’s ages ago in terms of how quickly thjngs change. Yes, it was far easier when your son played than today. And it was easier ten years before that. And easier 10 years before that.

I’m looking directly at TRN and see 10 kids in the top 20 of my state that reclassed. Times change. The blue chips are 16 yr old 8th graders.

Part of the problem within the tennis community seems to be that people are not really up to speed as to how things are now, compared to 10-15 -25 years ago.

They experienced one thjng, so it must always stay the same in their thinking.

Instead of telling people “not to complain” , perhaps educate yourself and not be talking about how fewer people reclassed when your son was in the 8th grade 13 years ago, so it’s just so hard for you to imagine.

It would be like someone saying “it’s hard to imagine college athletes get paid! My son graduated college 3 years ago and nobody got paid! Thus it can’t be true”

You may have some good advice, but your kid was 13 , 13 years ago. Not much of what you are saying is relevant today.

Nor would someone who graduated in 2005 have much relatable advice to give to your son who graduated in 2018.

What would they say “oh back in 2005 my son played tennis twice a week and made a D 1 team” “oh yeah? Back in 95 I only
Played 6 months a year and played d1””oh yeah, back in 1975 I played 4 varsity high school Sports and played d1 tennis”

 

[Tennis2349]

How to Reclass in High School - A Student-Athlete's Guide to the Reclassification Process - HONEST GAME

Discover essential strategies and expert advice for the reclassification process to unlock your full potential as a college student-athlete.

honestgame.com

From the article:
“Reclassification among student-athletes has become very popular in the last couple of years. And with the COVID-19 pandemic, the number of student-athletes choosing to reclassify has skyrocketed.”

As I said, the landscape and view/role of traditional school has changed after Covid.

It’s not that kids are attending public school and being embarrassed by being held back, they drop out of traditional school and are going to online or hybrid schools that cater specifically to athletes. These became very popular after Covid.

I would say I notice most people actually do this before the 8th grade, so their 13 year old is a blue chips for the class of 2031.

I don’t know how it will all pan out for them. But in the short term it is a huge advantage if they can keep it up. A big boost for TRN stars and an extra year or 2 to develop utr. And even boost their SAT and ACT scores

If you reclass you may go from 300 in the nation to 100. If you do not you are stuck trying to “catch” the kids who are a year or 2 older and you have limited time to do so.

On the flip side I have seen top players already quit completely by 13 due to arm injuries /overuse/burnout. Not sure if all 11- 12 year olds should be hitting the ball 5 hours a day and are mentally up for 25 tournaments a year.

Plus missing out on growing up and having a normal high school experience. It makes more sense for the truly talented who only play level 1 and 2 tournaments as school will not give you an excused absence ,but most reclassing I see are kids who are good players, but don’t even qualify for higher level tournaments in which travel is needed.

 

[andfor]

Has anyone approached the ratings agencies about this reclassing thing? What do they say?

What I don't get is that reclassing doesn't help the actual playing record that equates to a players ranking, sectionally, nationally, etc. Don't coaches look at rankings and playing records? Pretty sure they do.

How does reclassing raise the UTR? Isn't the UTR based on who you play against and their ratings?

If everyone reclassed wouldn't that reset all the ratings? (Unrealistic I know)

 

[LOBALOT]

This is all nuts. For what?

- Delay your kids development as an adult / graduate from college and become an adult at 30
- Near 0 chance of making it to pros especially if you have to gimmick to get into a D1 school
- Adding to item 2 major in parks & recreation management due to time commitment for tennis with zero hope of a future job / income prospects
- Adding to item 2 if you have to gimmick to get in the next years crop of 5*'s will bump you out of the lineup putting scholarship at risk
- Adding to item 2 potential rules changes and scholarships are going to limit the number of roster spots as I understand it. Yes all get a full but rosters limited.
- Plenty of great D3 programs out there to get a great degree and play tennis.

 

[Tennis2349]

Has anyone approached the ratings agencies about this reclassing thing? What do they say?

What I don't get is that reclassing doesn't help the actual playing record that equates to a players ranking, sectionally, nationally, etc. Don't coaches look at rankings and playing records? Pretty sure they do.

How does reclassing raise the UTR? Isn't the UTR based on who you play against and their ratings?

If everyone reclassed wouldn't that reset all the ratings? (Unrealistic I know)

Has anyone approached the ratings agencies about this reclassing thing? What do they say?

What I don't get is that reclassing doesn't help the actual playing record that equates to a players ranking, sectionally, nationally, etc. Don't coaches look at rankings and playing records? Pretty sure they do.

How does reclassing raise the UTR? Isn't the UTR based on who you play against and their ratings?

If everyone reclassed wouldn't that reset all the ratings? (Unrealistic I know)

It’s really bizarre that you have such a hard time understanding this.

Let’s say your kid is a 7.5 utr. 8th grader. 350 in the nation when compared to kids in the 8th grade class. . He is 13. A 3 star.

Now you reclass, and TRN gives stars based on how good the player is in regards to graduation year.

He is now a 7.5 utr , 7th grader , 75 in the nation. 5 star. Close to blue chip. He is being judged against younger players, but it goes by graduation year. Not age.

As for utr, he has a full extra year to increase that utr. He will be stronger, more mature, more athletic, and have a full extra year of practice and training by the end of his junior year.

Thus he has a far better chance to have more stars by end of junior year and a higher utr.

An example could be this.

Not reclassing. 10.5 end of junior year. 3 star. Nobody is recruiting him.

Reclassing 11.5 end of junior year. 5 star. He is getting offers.

 

[Tennis2349]

Put it this way.

I know for a fact, the top 5 kids in my state, that graduate in 2029 would double bagel my son. They are over 10 utr 8th graders. I also know for a fact they are 1.5 to 2 years older.

So there are 2 options.

A. Improve drastically more than them by end of junior year. Basically have 3 years to make up the ground.

B. Reclass and join the 7th graders. He double bageled the number 1 7th grader in our state. More or less instantly are a blue chip.

Even if 5 or so more kids reclass, he would still be amongst the oldest and in the top 5 for that recruiting class in our state.

Now obviously , as a “new 7th grader” he has a full extra year before the end of junior year. That’s an extra 600 hours of practice, 100 more matches, more strength, more maturity. So he would be a better player by end of junior year.

 

[Tennis2349]

This is all nuts. For what?

- Delay your kids development as an adult / graduate from college and become an adult at 30
- Near 0 chance of making it to pros especially if you have to gimmick to get into a D1 school
- Adding to item 2 major in parks & recreation management due to time commitment for tennis with zero hope of a future job / income prospects
- Adding to item 2 if you have to gimmick to get in the next years crop of 5*'s will bump you out of the lineup putting scholarship at risk
- Adding to item 2 potential rules changes and scholarships are going to limit the number of roster spots as I understand it. Yes all get a full but rosters limited.
- Plenty of great D3 programs out there to get a great degree and play tennis.

Agree. I think it comes down to this.

A. Parental competitiveness with other parents.
B. Tennis is ultra time consuming. And money consuming. So wanting to see some type of reward for 10 years of hard work and 300k spent.
C. The idea that playjng D1 will open far more doors after college than not being an athlete.

 

[LOBALOT]

Agree. I think it comes down to this.

A. Parental competitiveness with other parents.
B. Tennis is ultra time consuming. And money consuming. So wanting to see some type of reward for 10 years of hard work and 300k spent.
C. The idea that playjng D1 will open far more doors after college than not being an athlete.

I know the time consuming part, my son completed as a junior and is playing college tennis now.

Assuming 300k investment, the delayed income that the kid encounters alone exceeds that figure let alone the lower income due to graduating in some wimpy degree.

Plenty of D3 schools have great graduate mentorship programs.

So from what I see is it is A. Parental Competativeness and that is the stupidity of it and on top of that shooting themself and their kid in the foot from a $ and development of their kid as an adult standpoint.

 

[Tennis2349]

I know the time consuming part, my son completed as a junior and is playing college tennis now.

Assuming 300k investment, the delayed income that the kid encounters alone exceeds that figure let alone the lower income due to graduating in some wimpy degree.

Plenty of D3 schools have great graduate mentorship programs.

So from what I see is it is A. Parental Competativeness and that is the stupidity of it.

Agree. Largely A.

I feel homeschooling makes sense for the junior Wimbledon types, but many of these kids won’t even play at Kalamazoo.

It’s to show other parents that their kids have a higher ranking.

I also think once something like reclassing becomes more accepted and popular, other people follow what others are doing. The tennis group can be cliquish, and people do what others are doing.

For many it is reclass or have zero chance at playjng college tennis. Even d3 the way thjngs are headed looking 5 years ahead So they keep the dream alive for a bit longer.

 

[gatorbait01]

Reclassing is insanely common in tennis, but across all sports. If you have a summer birthday, like my son, it's almost expected to reclass. Especially, if you are considered a DI prospect.
My son did not get held back (as we used to call it). It was never really considered as he wasn't small. That was the only criteria at the time that we considered along with his maturity. We're talking kindergarten here.

With just the kids he has trained with over the years a bunch have reclassed. It's so easy for those who homeschool. On my son's high school team, another player who badly wants DI, with a summer birthday, reclassed for the second time. He is over 2 years older than my son, but in the same grade. He's home schooled but allowed to play high school sports here in Florida. No wonder his utr is higher, good grief.

I could go on with other examples and that's just in our circle of acquaintances. I follow college football and basketball recruiting and it is amazingly common as well.

I do wish TRN would publish birthdates and usta as well. I don't even remember if you have to provide a copy of a birth certificate. With my daughter's soccer that needs to be provided over and over, even without changing clubs.

 

[Tennis2349]

Reclassing is insanely common in tennis, but across all sports. If you have a summer birthday, like my son, it's almost expected to reclass. Especially, if you are considered a DI prospect.
My son did not get held back (as we used to call it). It was never really considered as he wasn't small. That was the only criteria at the time that we considered along with his maturity. We're talking kindergarten here.

With just the kids he has trained with over the years a bunch have reclassed. It's so easy for those who homeschool. On my son's high school team, another player who badly wants DI, with a summer birthday, reclassed for the second time. He is over 2 years older than my son, but in the same grade. He's home schooled but allowed to play high school sports here in Florida. No wonder his utr is higher, good grief.

I could go on with other examples and that's just in our circle of acquaintances. I follow college football and basketball recruiting and it is amazingly common as well.

I do wish TRN would publish birthdates and usta as well. I don't even remember if you have to provide a copy of a birth certificate. With my daughter's soccer that needs to be provided over and over, even without changing clubs.

Was just going to add that!

Playing soccer growing up birth certificates were asked for constantly. Contact sport. Injuries etc.

The USTA does not ask for them. Nobody asked for them.

I do not feel it is as common, but there are a few players in under 12’s that definitely look more developed than the average 12 year old.

 

[andfor]

Agree. Largely A.

I feel homeschooling makes sense for the junior Wimbledon types, but many of these kids won’t even play at Kalamazoo.

It’s to show other parents that their kids have a higher ranking.

I also think once something like reclassing becomes more accepted and popular, other people follow what others are doing.

For many it is reclass or have zero chance at playjng college tennis. Even d3 the way thjngs are headed looking 5 years ahead So they keep the dream alive for a bit longer.

You just pointed out one component of what's confusing about this concept. You said in your second sentence above that "many of these kids won't even play Kalamazoo". So you're a 5* or Blue Chip but the players ranking is too low to support the highest levels of competition. i.e player doesn't qualify for Kalamazoo. A players record reflects their success, lack of success and is a component of estimating their upside. Coaches know.

 

[Tennis2349]

You just pointed out one component of what's confusing about this concept. You said in your second sentence above that "many of these kids won't even play Kalamazoo". So you're a 5* or Blue Chip but the players ranking is too low to support the highest levels of competition. i.e player doesn't qualify for Kalamazoo. A players record reflects their success, lack of success and is a component of estimating their upside. Coaches know.

Yes. Many won’t. Many will. You also have 1 and 2 stars reclassing.

There have been others on here backing up my claims. Not sure why you are doubting it?

What is your overall point? That Reclassing and being grouped with younger players is NOT an advantage?

What exactly is the college coach going to know?

That one player at end of junior year is a 10.5

And the other is an 11.5.

Which player would you select? Nothing to debate. The older 11.5 player is better.

Secondly, tennis has the rule for Americans you must play 6 months after graduation of high school. Or lose a year of eligibility.

Now how on earth are even top of the top juniors going to compete with foreigners from other nations that can be 22 year old freshman? I started the other thread on Timo Legout. 17-18 yo has little chance.

 

[gatorbait01]

Anecdotally boys with summer birthdates are held back about 50% of the time regardless of athletics. Just for social reasons or whatever. Many boys in my son's grade are over a year older. One boy was driving to school as a freshman. He's not an athlete. My son won't be 16 until just before junior year.

There are certainly pros/cons either direction. It would have been a nice advantage to have an extra year of growth and development. My son never really seamed gung-ho about college tennis so it hasn't really mattered in that respect. I do sometimes wonder if he had been held back and been a 4 or 5 star would that have inspired and encouraged him more?

I never wanted my sons identity to be centered around tennis so I feel we made the right choice, even if we never thought much about it. He wants some top schools which weren't gonna happen with tennis even if he was held back.

 

[gatorbait01]

Was just going to add that!

Playing soccer growing up birth certificates were asked for constantly. Contact sport. Injuries etc.

The USTA does not ask for them. Nobody asked for them.

I do not feel it is as common, but there are a few players in under 12’s that definitely look more developed than the average 12 year old.

True. Playing someone in the 14s with a full beard with make you pause lol.

 

[LOBALOT]

True. Playing someone in the 14s with a full beard with make you pause lol.

Just as an aside, my son actually played this kid in 14s that had a full beard. The kid looked like a man.

 

[Tennis2349]

Fac

Anecdotally boys with summer birthdates are held back about 50% of the time regardless of athletics. Just for social reasons or whatever. Many boys in my son's grade are over a year older. One boy was driving to school as a freshman. He's not an athlete. My son won't be 16 until just before junior year.

There are certainly pros/cons either direction. It would have been a nice advantage to have an extra year of growth and development. My son never really seamed gung-ho about college tennis so it hasn't really mattered in that respect. I do sometimes wonder if he had been held back and been a 4 or 5 star would that have inspired and encouraged him more?

I never wanted my sons identity to be centered around tennis so I feel we made the right choice, even if we never thought much about it. He wants some top schools which weren't gonna happen with tennis even if he was held back.

Yes. This has been an ongoing overall theme of my posts.

To clarify, I am speaking about kids that will be classes of 2029-2031.

To have a realistic shot at playing D1. (Just a chance and actually get playing time) you will need to reclass, homeschool , and maybe you can get a partial scholarship to a school that would never be a top choice. Ok great. Playing tennis for university of Toledo Ohio.

Along with that, you will most likely have to have a less rigorous major, you will never go pro, and you can play for the school but still pay out of state tuition, flights back home, etc.

In my situation my son is very bright. I would never hold him back. Can get into a Georgia tech,UGA, with the hope scholarship pay very little for tuition , and study whatever you like.

Now to do the latter, more time must be spent on academics throughout high school. You cannot take 12 AP courses and play tennis 20 hours per week. Obviously the foreign kids or homeschoolers are not doing this. The foreign kids are playing semi pro tennis at 16. Not studying 3 hours a night.

So it really depends. Yes the foreign kids might take most of the spots and be better, but in the long run and game of life, they can graduate and be tennis teachers /phys Ed teachers somewhere. Or just go back home and think of their experiences and try to use their degree there

At the end of the day, who has learned more, who is more well rounded, and who is better set up for the future?

Part of it is a little disheartening , but that is NCAA athletics and part of life.

 

[andfor]

You originally said most of the reclassing started with the class of 2028. You're now moving it to 2029. Not a criticism, just and observation.

And stop with your thinking I'm doubting you. I previously thanked you publicly for educating me on the subject. I find the concept to be a waste of the kids time and be a low propensity of making much of a difference come scholarship time. I can see it maybe helping a kid with his academics, would have for my child.

Regarding Timo Leggout my guess is this is his last year of eligibility. We'll see.

Foreign kids education levels when they get here, ask most any coach and they'll tell you, are way ahead of the American kids academically and often tutor the Americans. So to stereotype them as becoming tennis teachers somewhere is a little off base. I know many, one is a phD student (physics) 5 are business owners stateside, mechanical engineer, another doubled in finance and international business, phama rep, and there's more.

Any word on what the rating agencies reactions are to this issue, UTR, Tennis Recruiting, etc.?

 

[gatorbait01]

Fac

Yes. This has been an ongoing overall theme of my posts.

To clarify, I am speaking about kids that will be classes of 2029-2031.

To have a realistic shot at playing D1. (Just a chance and actually get playing time) you will need to reclass, homeschool , and maybe you can get a partial scholarship to a school that would never be a top choice. Ok great. Playing tennis for university of Toledo Ohio.

Along with that, you will most likely have to have a less rigorous major, you will never go pro, and you can play for the school but still pay out of state tuition, flights back home, etc.

In my situation my son is very bright. I would never hold him back. Can get into a Georgia tech,UGA, with the hope scholarship pay very little for tuition , and study whatever you like.

Now to do the latter, more time must be spent on academics throughout high school. You cannot take 12 AP courses and play tennis 20 hours per week. Obviously the foreign kids or homeschoolers are not doing this. The foreign kids are playing semi pro tennis at 16. Not studying 3 hours a night.

So it really depends. Yes the foreign kids might take most of the spots and be better, but in the long run and game of life, they can graduate and be tennis teachers /phys Ed teachers somewhere. Or just go back home and think of their experiences and try to use their degree there

At the end of the day, who has learned more, who is more well rounded, and who is better set up for the future?

Part of it is a little disheartening , but that is NCAA athletics and part of life.

For sure. Tennis is a tough deal. My son who is a '27 has brought this up. He sometimes wishes he had decided to make baseball his sport. All sports are uber competitive nowadays, but tennis just seems on a different level with the amount of coaching, costs, and so forth. Furthermore, like you said, no real shot of making a living. You can't even pretend. In baseball, every year, there are kids who go JUCO in Florida, get drafted and eventually end up in the big leagues. It's a real possibility (albeit small) and can motivate a late bloomer. You'll never hear about a tennis player at some community college blossoming and making the tour.

 

[Tennis2349]

You originally said most of the reclassing started with the class of 2028. You're now moving it to 2029. Not a criticism, just and observation.

And stop with your thinking I'm doubting you. I previously thanked you publicly for educating me on the subject. I find the concept to be a waste of the kids time and be a low propensity of making much of a difference come scholarship time. I can see it maybe helping a kid with his academics, would have for my child.

Regarding Timo Leggout my guess is this is his last year of eligibility. We'll see.

Foreign kids education levels when they get here, ask most any coach and they'll tell you, are way ahead of the American kids academically and often tutor the Americans. So to stereotype them as becoming tennis teachers somewhere is a little off base. I know many, one is a phD student (physics) 5 are business owners stateside, mechanical engineer, another doubled in finance and international business, phama rep, and there's more.

Any word on what the rating agencies reactions are to this issue, UTR, Tennis Recruiting, etc.?

A. Not sure what you mean that I am
Moving something? Yes. Kids reclass in all of those classes.

B. You are making the stereotype that foreign kids tutor Americans? lol ok sure. That’s just a different stereotype.

So now foreign d1 players are taking the most rigorous degrees? Sure. Not what I have seen

Funny how many of them state they just come here to get free training because the pro tour is expensive.

 

[andfor]

A. Not sure what you mean that I am
Moving something? Yes. Kids reclass in all of those classes.

B. You are making the stereotype that foreign kids tutor Americans? lol ok sure. That’s just a different stereotype.

So now foreign d1 players are taking the most rigorous degrees? Sure. Not what I have seen

Funny how many of them state they just come here to get free training because the pro tour is expensive.

A. You originally said kids in 2028, 29 and 30 were reclassing (post #49), then you said in another post 29, 30 and 31 (post #69). You moved the timeframe. No big deal. You're just guessing, I get it.

B. I used language that was far from stereotypical and left leeway for exceptions. I also sighted first hand that I've heard this very thing from actual coaches. So when it actually happens how does that make it stereotypical?

Not close to what I said about international tennis players and their majors. I sighted 8 players I know, 3 of their degrees and 5 that are business owners.

3rd time I've asked. Any word on what the rating agencies reactions are to the reclassing issue, UTR, Tennis Recruiting, etc.?

 

[Tennis2349]

A. You originally said kids in 2028, 29 and 30 were reclassing (post #49), then you said in another post 29, 30 and 31 (post #69). You moved the timeframe. No big deal. You're just guessing, I get it.

B. I used language that was far from stereotypical and left leeway for exceptions. I also sighted first hand that I've heard this very thing from actual coaches. So when it actually happens how does that make it stereotypical?

Not close to what I said about international tennis players and their majors. I sighted 8 players I know, 3 of their degrees and 5 that are business owners.

3rd time I've asked. Any word on what the rating agencies reactions are to the reclassing issue, UTR, Tennis Recruiting, etc.?

A. You are missing the larger point. 28-31 is correct. As is 2027 as a poster here has admitted. My point is don’t come here saying your kid was an 8th grader 10-15 -30 years ago, and since it didn’t happen then, reclassing it isn’t rampant now.

B. I agree. There are exceptions. I heard and seen the opposite of what you heard. You just said a player like legout is here to play for 1 season. What degree is he getting? Hundreds of others like him.

C. I truly believe you don’t fully understand any of these concepts. UTR is not related to age. TRN or the USTA do not ask for birth certificates. What would UTR have to do with reclassing. That’s just your level of tennis playing.

 

[andfor]

A. You are missing the larger point. 28-31 is correct. As is 2027 as a poster here has admitted. My point is don’t come here saying your kid was an 8th grader 10-15 -30 years ago, and since it didn’t happen then, reclassing it isn’t rampant now.

B. I agree. There are exceptions. I heard and seen the opposite of what you heard. You just said a player like legout is here to play for 1 season. What degree is he getting? Hundreds of others like him.

C. I truly believe you don’t fully understand any of these concepts. UTR is not related to age. TRN or the USTA do not ask for birth certificates. What would UTR have to do with reclassing. That’s just your level of tennis playing.

A. Didn't say that.
B. Wasn't talking about Legout. Was addressing your accusation of stereotyping that foreign kids tutor Americans.
C. 4th time asking. What does TRN or whomever you have a beef with, now include the USTA have to say about the reclassing issue? While you're deflecting answering this question, what does the USTA have to say about no birth certificate required?

 

[Tennis2349]

A. Didn't say that.
B. Wasn't talking about Legout. Was addressing your accusation of stereotyping that foreign kids tutor Americans.
C. 4th time asking. What does TRN or whomever you have a beef with, now include the USTA have to say about the reclassing issue? While you're deflecting answering this question, what does the USTA have to say about no birth certificate required?

What do they say?

A. USTA is an honor system with age. They do not request birth certificates.
B. TRN ranks the best players in that graduating class. Birthdays are private information, and provided by the parent without any proof. Age is not disclosed on the profile.

What is your overall point? That age does not help athletic ability but might help academics as you said? All these people Reclassing annd their tennis coaches telling them to are clueless and don’t have your insight?

 

[andfor]

What do they say?

A. USTA is an honor system with age. They do not request birth certificates.
B. TRN ranks the best players in that graduating class. Birthdays are private information, and provided by the parent without any proof. Age is not disclosed on the profile.

What is your overall point? That age does not help athletic ability but might help academics as you said? All these people Reclassing annd their tennis coaches telling them to are clueless and don’t have your insight?

Sounds like nobody is doing anything about it. Just complaining.

 

[Tennisparent26]

I have wanted to contact governing bodies to ask about this but do not even know where to start. Who makes the rules, especially the 6 month rule for the gap year for tennis (one of the only sports with less than a year for a gap year)? Must not be NCAA since most of the sports are a year. Is it the Intercollegiate Tennis Association (ITA)? How much does or can the USTA help out with some of these issues? Why is the tennis gap "year" only 6 months compared to other sports? Who came up with that? I would also ask about international students and a potential limit for those scholarships but that topic is on another thread so we don't need to go there here.

The other thing that is coming up is the settlement with the potential changes to the roster limits/scholarships. I believe a hearing or settlement is coming in April. Much of this could be affected even more by roster limits and scholarships. Some teams currently carry bigger rosters and some teams will not be able to fully fund the 10 scholarships so my guess is there could be changes to how many places can still field the teams. My junior has been sending emails to coaches but not much of a response yet. I am thinking they are waiting for the April timeframe so they will know more about what they will be working with regarding their team size and scholarships.

 

[andfor]

The 6 month gap rule and most NCAA rules unique to tennis are made by the ITA. I believe it was made to prevent players from playing pro tennis for an extended period of time before entering college tennis. My understanding is the 6 month gap rule only starts once sanctioned/organized tennis events have been entered and participated in after HS graduation. Those athletes who appear to be older or have been granted exception the the rule (if that’s even the case) have had to jump through numerous hoops to prove why they should get it and if they took more than $10k in prize money annually and paid it back go through deep scrutiny.

A player for example can take a 1 yr mission trip or enroll in an academy to train but not play in organized events and likely not have the 6 clock start. * Note: Check with the NCAA NAIA or NJCAA governing bodies for proper application of the rules.

 

[Tennis2349]

Sounds like nobody is doing anything about it. Just complaining.

What I have done is explain the rules and the shenanigans that are going on. Which apparently many even here did not know about.

Yes, when you contact TRN or the USTA they agree with you, but explain those are the rules.

TRN awards rankings based on graduation year. There is no age component.

It’s like you are asking me to make a phone call and change how the NCAA governs reclassing.

I think TRN is very accurate with how they rank kids within the classes. It’s just not “fair” that the NCAA has a 6 month rule after high school, which people counter by holding back before the 9th grade. Which means if your intelligent kid is not “held back” they are at a large disadvantage when it comes time to recruiting.

TRN is also on the “honor system” , as when you sign up you just type your kids birthday in. So even if they published ages, it is whatever the parents say they are.

The disadvantage is First by foreign professionals, secondly by American kids that are 1-2 years older but in your same recruiting class.

And again, It seems 1 or 2 of you dont believe it, but since Covid holding kids back and homeschooling has become the norm for many.

I don’t really have an issue with many of the kids that are 1 year older, as that may be a natural hold back when they were young before they even played.

My issue is seeing a large dump into the 8th grade class of the top players in the country who hold back a second time who will start high school as 16 year old freshman.

 

[andfor]

You can stop accusing me of thought crimes. I get it, you're aggrieved. Best of luck to your child.

 

[gatorbait01]

Outside of tennis, like I had mentioned, reclassing is also rampant. As an alumnus of Univ of Florida, I closely follow their football recruiting. A year or two ago, we were recruiting Austin Simmons as a qb. We were recruiting him to "reclass" and move on to college 1 year in advance. Guess what happened? He reclassed 2 years and went to Ole Miss. He was held back 2 years. This gave him much more options, as he could reclass 1 or 2 years (or not reclass at all ) and find the best match based on what the school needs as far as a qb.

So the whole reclassing thing takes on another role for those who are early bloomers. Get held back, but be physically able to reclass again (forward if you will) and open opportunities. With NIL college football and basketball players are making big money so this will only become more prevalent.

The starting qb for the Gators now was held back 1 year.

Austin Simmons Makes Waves With Reclassification Decision - Signing Day Sports

In the realm of high school football, one name has been making headlines recently: Austin Simmons. The four-star quarterback who most recently starred for Pahokee High School in Florida has captured attention with his remarkable talent and recent decision to reclassify from the 2025 class to...

thewire.signingdaysports.com

 

[Tennis2349]

Outside of tennis, like I had mentioned, reclassing is also rampant. As an alumnus of Univ of Florida, I closely follow their football recruiting. A year or two ago, we were recruiting Austin Simmons as a qb. We were recruiting him to "reclass" and move on to college 1 year in advance. Guess what happened? He reclassed 2 years and went to Ole Miss. He was held back 2 years. This gave him much more options, as he could reclass 1 or 2 years (or not reclass at all ) and find the best match based on what the school needs as far as a qb.

So the whole reclassing thing takes on another role for those who are early bloomers. Get held back, but be physically able to reclass again (forward if you will) and open opportunities. With NIL college football and basketball players are making big money so this will only become more prevalent.

The starting qb for the Gators now was held back 1 year.

Austin Simmons Makes Waves With Reclassification Decision - Signing Day Sports

In the realm of high school football, one name has been making headlines recently: Austin Simmons. The four-star quarterback who most recently starred for Pahokee High School in Florida has captured attention with his remarkable talent and recent decision to reclassify from the 2025 class to...

thewire.signingdaysports.com

Yes. Exactly.

Athletes are actually attending high school less and less. It states he passed all required course work by 15 through homeschooling, then can just play and train for football. Hold back , then enter which class looks best.

Not sure how he has a 5.3 GPA unless he was taking advanced multi variable calculus at 15, but the details are always murky.

My local high school quarterback graduated at 20 and went on to play d1.

 

[gatorbait01]

What a visionary Nick Bolletieri was. He basically made the model before the internet.

 

[Tennis2349]

Spoke to TRN.

A. TRN does not care about age.

B. TRN caters to college coaches who care about what class the kid is in. Colleges do not care about age.

C. Universities will pick the top players the earliest. End of sophomore year. Blue chips and high 5 stars are given offers.

D. This , again, is why kids reclass. You are 17-18 at end of sophomore year vs 16.

 

[Tennis2349]

It is what it is.

What age do most of you feel the most improvement takes place? Maybe for those of you that had junior players?

I see some burning their kids out by 9-10. There is only so much kids can pick up by then. They jump ahead but then stagnate.

I see one kid that was a utr 4 at 13 and is now a 10 at 16.

I haven’t been through it, but logically it seems the most improvements would take place around or after 15-18. Once they have more developed bodies/ maturity/ coordination/ strength/experience/intelligence .

Which is why it seems odd if kids are selected by 16 in most cases.

 

[gatorbait01]

Spoke to TRN.

A. TRN does not care about age.

B. TRN caters to college coaches who care about what class the kid is in. Colleges do not care about age.

C. Universities will pick the top players the earliest. End of sophomore year. Blue chips and high 5 stars are given offers.

D. This , again, is why kids reclass. You are 17-18 at end of sophomore year vs 16.

Not sure how this will ever stop. Even if the ncaa made some sort of rule about reclassing, there will always be exceptions allowed, which will in turn be abused. Reclassing will be viewed as a personal choice by the ncaa with no penalties, imo.

I do agree, it is an unfair advantage and shouldn't be allowed. Almost in the same manner as ped's unfairly increase performance. Ped's are outlawed to prevent other's from needing to take them just to be on an even playing field. Rampant reclassing makes that almost, or maybe entirely necessary unless your child is a very early bloomer.

The child on my son's high school team who reclassed twice is now a sophomore with 9 utr. Certainly DI is still in the cards. If he was a senior probably not. Big difference.

Having to make a decision to reclass your child before 9th grade is super detrimental if things don't go as planned. Like another poster mentioned, there's burnout, don't develop enough, mental pressure added due to reclass, etc. Also if in person schooled, you completely lose your friend groups. You're now 1 or 2 years behind in the work force, etc, etc. IMO it's probably a bad deal for most. Maybe not, if a summer birthdate and just held back 1 year.

 

[Tennis2349]

Not sure how this will ever stop. Even if the ncaa made some sort of rule about reclassing, there will always be exceptions allowed, which will in turn be abused. Reclassing will be viewed as a personal choice by the ncaa with no penalties, imo.

I do agree, it is an unfair advantage and shouldn't be allowed. Almost in the same manner as ped's unfairly increase performance. Ped's are outlawed to prevent other's from needing to take them just to be on an even playing field. Rampant reclassing makes that almost, or maybe entirely necessary unless your child is a very early bloomer.

The child on my son's high school team who reclassed twice is now a sophomore with 9 utr. Certainly DI is still in the cards. If he was a senior probably not. Big difference.

Having to make a decision to reclass your child before 9th grade is super detrimental if things don't go as planned. Like another poster mentioned, there's burnout, don't develop enough, mental pressure added due to reclass, etc. Also if in person schooled, you completely lose your friend groups. You're now 1 or 2 years behind in the work force, etc, etc. IMO it's probably a bad deal for most. Maybe not, if a summer birthdate and just held back 1 year.

What they could do is the ncaa starts the clock ticking at 18. Foreign and American. If you are 19 you lose a year of eligibility.

I think my son is doing amazingly well. FOR HIS AGE. The top 5 8th graders in my state are over 10 utr and turning 16 this summer. Highest is 10.25. 8th graders. Son is still 13.

Things look great then you see a large dump of kids in your grade that are all really 10th graders.

Carlos Alcaraz Explains Why He Worries About His Talented Younger Brother Jaime

Clips of Carlos Alcaraz's 13-year-old brother Jaime playing tennis have gone viral a few times, drawing comparisons to his illustrious older sibling. However, Carlos does not like people doing that. C...

tennis-infinity.com

As a comparison Alcaraz talks about his talented younger brother. He is 13 and a 9.14.

Strange that if he didn’t reclass he wouldn’t even be top 5 in Georgia. Full utr point behind

 

[andfor]

Got this from ChatGPT. It not perfect, but there's some ideas that warrant merit, pick it apart as you will. Just trying to help with some creativity. Start reaching out to coaches now.

Promt -
Some young athletes, tennis players in this scenario, with aspirations to play college athletic and secure athletic scholarships are reclassing to a grade below or being held back to get ahead of their competition for coveted attention and commitment from college coaches. As early as 7th and 8th grade. What's a known strategy to combat this trend for parents of young athletes and the athletes themselves?

ChatGPT said:​

Reclassification, or "redshirting," at the middle school level to gain a competitive edge in college recruiting is becoming more common in various sports, including tennis. For parents and young athletes who choose not to go this route but still want to remain competitive in college recruiting, here are some key strategies:

1. Prioritize Skill Development Over Age Manipulation​

• Instead of focusing on being the oldest in a recruiting class, emphasize superior technical skills, fitness, and mental toughness.
• Work with high-quality coaches and trainers to refine strokes, footwork, and match play.
• Play in higher-level tournaments (UTR, ITF, USTA) to build a strong competitive resume.

2. Play Up in Age Divisions​

• Competing against older and stronger players will provide better match experience and demonstrate college-level readiness.
• Tennis recruiters value wins against older, higher-ranked opponents more than age manipulation.

3. Focus on Rankings and College Exposure​

• Maintain and improve Universal Tennis Rating (UTR) and USTA rankings, as these are key indicators for college coaches.
• Participate in high-profile showcases, ITF events, and national tournaments that college recruiters attend.

4. Academic and Athletic Balance​

• Excelling academically can open up more scholarship opportunities, both athletic and academic.
• A strong GPA and test scores can make an athlete more appealing to top programs, especially in tennis, where Ivy League and other strong academic institutions offer competitive tennis programs.

5. Build Relationships with College Coaches Early​

• Start reaching out to college coaches by sophomore year or earlier.
• Create a highlight video, maintain a strong online presence (e.g., Instagram, YouTube, UTR profile), and attend college camps to stay visible.

6. Mental and Physical Maturity​

• College coaches look for mental resilience, work ethic, and leadership on and off the court.
• Developing these traits will make an athlete stand out, regardless of age.

7. Consider Alternative Recruiting Paths​

• Instead of focusing solely on traditional NCAA Division 1 scholarships, explore NAIA, Division II or III and NJCAA options where talent matters more than birth year.

By focusing on true player development, smart tournament selection, and relationship-building with college programs, young athletes can stay competitive without needing to reclassify.

 

[gatorbait01]

What they could do is the ncaa starts the clock ticking at 18. Foreign and American. If you are 19 you lose a year of eligibility.

I think my son is doing amazingly well. FOR HIS AGE. The top 5 8th graders in my state are over 10 utr and turning 16 this summer. Highest is 10.25. 8th graders. Son is still 13.

Things look great then you see a large dump of kids in your grade that are all really 10th graders.

Carlos Alcaraz Explains Why He Worries About His Talented Younger Brother Jaime

Clips of Carlos Alcaraz's 13-year-old brother Jaime playing tennis have gone viral a few times, drawing comparisons to his illustrious older sibling. However, Carlos does not like people doing that. C...

tennis-infinity.com

As a comparison Alcaraz talks about his talented younger brother. He is 13 and a 9.14.

Strange that if he didn’t reclass he wouldn’t even be top 5 in Georgia. Full utr point behind

I like the idea of a clock ticking at 18. Make a hard cap at 23 or something.

 

[Tennis2349]

I like the idea of a clock ticking at 18. Make a hard cap at 23 or something.

As you said , the kid who reclassed would be nowhere near college materials if he was a senior 9 utr.

I am looking at the top 5 blue chips that reclassed ro the 8th grade, and they are not even in the top 20 USTA rankings for under 16. Yes, they have time left to play 16’s, but when comparing apples to apples, if they were sophomores they would be high 4 or maybe even 3 star.

 

[gatorbait01]

I do wonder as your son gets older and you begin contact with coaches if you can make your case to them just as you are here. It's completely valid and coaches should see the value in someone with more room to grow so to speak.

I don't know about tennis but now for a lot of sports, coaches are unfortunately less likely to take the young, raw, late bloomer types due to transfer rules. They'd rather them go to a lesser school get playing time, develop and transfer in when ready to contribute.

 

[Tennis2349]

I do wonder as your son gets older and you begin contact with coaches if you can make your case to them just as you are here. It's completely valid and coaches should see the value in someone with more room to grow so to speak.

I don't know about tennis but now for a lot of sports, coaches are unfortunately less likely to take the young, raw, late bloomer types due to transfer rules. They'd rather them go to a lesser school get playing time, develop and transfer in when ready to contribute.

I think that’s more or less my point on the thread.

It changed a lot since my day, and has changed a lot just since a few years ago. And is changing more for the upcoming decade. It is becoming way more competitive .

It would be interesting to know how many American kids who do not reclass or homeschool will play D1 college tennis in 2028 2029 2030 2031 etc. I am assuming they might make up 5 percent of rosters. If that.

College Coaches assemble the best teams they can within the rules. So I don’t think they really care about American, or foreign, age, Reclassing etc.

If it were up to me, I would have a quota on foreigners , and I would have an age limit of some sort.

Lots of people are taking chances by withholding their middle school kids to try and keep up, (2 stars all the way up to blue chip) but I sense for most they are just harming their kids.

 

[LeftyMagic]

Yes. Many won’t. Many will. You also have 1 and 2 stars reclassing.

There have been others on here backing up my claims. Not sure why you are doubting it?

What is your overall point? That Reclassing and being grouped with younger players is NOT an advantage?

What exactly is the college coach going to know?

That one player at end of junior year is a 10.5

And the other is an 11.5.

Which player would you select? Nothing to debate. The older 11.5 player is better.

Secondly, tennis has the rule for Americans you must play 6 months after graduation of high school. Or lose a year of eligibility.

Now how on earth are even top of the top juniors going to compete with foreigners from other nations that can be 22 year old freshman? I started the other thread on Timo Legout. 17-18 yo has little chance.

that is a crazy disadvantage. glad u pointed that out, learning alot as a young parent at whats to come

 

[Tennis2349]

that is a crazy disadvantage. glad u pointed that out, learning alot as a young parent at whats to come

Planning ahead is more important these days for sure.

Get as much current advice as you can.

Someone like jcgatennismom has some good advice, but when her son was 13 they didn’t even have UTR. Reclassing wasn’t a thing . Fewer foreigners in the class of 2018 than will be in the classes around 2030.

So if she did it the same way today, as she did in 2013, her kid would have zero chance. So try and find honest academies or people in the know that can tell you what is expected TODAY.

I played D1 around 2000. Soccer was actually my main sport which I quit before college. I walked onto the tennis team as I beat the number one singles player in high school.

Times change. I can name 25 7th and 8th graders in my immediate area that reclassed and /or homeschooled that will most likely have no chance.

 

[Tennis2349]

Upon doing a bit of research about quotas on foreign athletes, this is what I have found.

It is very tough to find a foreign PROFESSIONAL league that does not have a quota on foreign athletes. German soccer. Lithuanian basketball. Japanese baseball. Doesn’t matter the sport of nation, they almost all have quotas.

The reasons given are:

A. Developing homegrown talent
B native born people have a realistic pathway to the next level.
C. Fan interest.

But for American COLLEGE athletics, that literally exist for young people to get an education, people here can’t seem to fathom quotas, and insist college tennis would be horrible without foreigners taking the majority of spots.

It’s just common sense. If professional leagues world wide can see the value in putting their people first, why can’t we? It’s not even professional. It’s college.

 

[Tennisparent26]

This is only going to be more apparent if the roster is limited to 10. The Americans who are sitting at 9-12 on the roster at some schools are going to be fighting for a slot and most likely hitting the transfer portal. The % of international students will be even higher when these rosters are limited. How can we fight this? Who do we petition? ITA? USTA? I am sure USTA will not want to get into this but they should.

I know there are groups who are fighting the roster limits in other sports, but not as much the international quota because they don't have such a high percentage as tennis does. There are a ton of track and field and swim/dive programs who are having to cut in major ways.... It is so sad for these kids who are battling day in and day out for the sports they love.

 

[LeftyMagic]

Planning ahead is more important these days for sure.

Get as much current advice as you can.

Someone like jcgatennismom has some good advice, but when her son was 13 they didn’t even have UTR. Reclassing wasn’t a thing . Fewer foreigners in the class of 2018 than will be in the classes around 2030.

So if she did it the same way today, as she did in 2013, her kid would have zero chance. So try and find honest academies or people in the know that can tell you what is expected TODAY.

I played D1 around 2000. Soccer was actually my main sport which I quit before college. I walked onto the tennis team as I beat the number one singles player in high school.

Times change. I can name 25 7th and 8th graders in my immediate area that reclassed and /or homeschooled that will most likely have no chance.

similar era. and thanks for further advice. i knew kids were playing more tournaments and throwing more tantrums than in my day but reclassing this often is a new era. i played a diff college sport as well, but roomed w a hall of famer from tennis. idk if he would have made todays team. i checked my alumnus out and was surprised, 9 of 10 foreigners. to be honest they arent very good and this is d1. i dont understand what is going on….
im in florida now and the local d1/d2 are foreign dominated which again is crazy to me…with all local american kids homeschooling and playing and they still cant get recruited in their own backyard? everyones in an academy or doing two private sessions per day here. is this chaos even worth it? money aside, its the time effort too

 

[LeftyMagic]

This is only going to be more apparent if the roster is limited to 10. The Americans who are sitting at 9-12 on the roster at some schools are going to be fighting for a slot and most likely hitting the transfer portal. The % of international students will be even higher when these rosters are limited. How can we fight this? Who do we petition? ITA? USTA? I am sure USTA will not want to get into this but they should.

I know there are groups who are fighting the roster limits in other sports, but not as much the international quota because they don't have such a high percentage as tennis does. There are a ton of track and field and swim/dive programs who are having to cut in major ways.... It is so sad for these kids who are battling day in and day out for the sports they love.

i touched on this above but maybe its just me - are any of these international kids that much better? (yes a 22 yr freshman will likely dominate my 17 yr old if he gets that far…but age aside)
im re-educating myself on the d1’s outside of giant name state schools, and not many individuals are all that dominant on these teams.
excuse my ignorance im still learning here - do tennis programs get a benefit for recruiting internationally? it just seems to me its a whole lot sexier to say i have three guys from spain, instead of 3 guys from connecticut. but they arent much better.
meanwhile giron, mcdonald and spirrizzi are on tour. only 3 on the top of my mind we can name many more. all went to college all american. how many internationals are going us college to tour? vs americans to college to tour?
my little guy is young but as a former college athlete i want to help him pick the path he’ll have greatest chance for playing time

 

[Tennis2349]

This is only going to be more apparent if the roster is limited to 10. The Americans who are sitting at 9-12 on the roster at some schools are going to be fighting for a slot and most likely hitting the transfer portal. The % of international students will be even higher when these rosters are limited. How can we fight this? Who do we petition? ITA? USTA? I am sure USTA will not want to get into this but they should.

I know there are groups who are fighting the roster limits in other sports, but not as much the international quota because they don't have such a high percentage as tennis does. There are a ton of track and field and swim/dive programs who are having to cut in major ways.... It is so sad for these kids who are battling day in and day out for the sports they love.

similar era. and thanks for further advice. i knew kids were playing more tournaments and throwing more tantrums than in my day but reclassing this often is a new era. i played a diff college sport as well, but roomed w a hall of famer from tennis. idk if he would have made todays team. i checked my alumnus out and was surprised, 9 of 10 foreigners. to be honest they arent very good and this is d1. i dont understand what is going on….
im in florida now and the local d1/d2 are foreign dominated which again is crazy to me…with all local american kids homeschooling and playing and they still cant get recruited in their own backyard? everyones in an academy or doing two private sessions per day here. is this chaos even worth it? money aside, its the time effort too

Exactly. The time/money could be much better spent in other ways. And that’s what many families start to do when they see the writing on the wall. Kids are quitting before they even develop at 15 because the demands of school plus full time tennis with no realistic path are too much. One route must be chosen.

USA is by far the best tennis nation on earth. But, if you take the top 3 -5 players from each country, of course many of them will be “better” than most American players. Other nations don’t have the depth, but the top are amazing players. This can be said for any sport.

And yes, when I played the players were true student athletes. Overachieving in school and in tennis. Often times other sports as well.

A kid I played is currently the head coach of an Ivy League school. Was winning science awards. A kid that beat him was also high school quarterback. The former played in Wimbledon.

Now it is homeschooling since 12, reclassing, , full time academies, basically missing much of life, with STILL only a tiny chance to beat out the entire world for some tennis spots.

I think most will just quit, some
Might play d3, a couple might make a d1 roster.

Things are moving quickly and the USTA needs to be involved if they don’t want the sport to completely die.