Reclassing and UTR for college

[Tennis2349]

My main points were

A. In homeschool academies I have seen, there is a lot of wasted time. It makes $$$$ for the academy, but the kids have not improved at a rate that would equal, in my opinion, quitting high school.

B. Law of diminishing returns. The intensity in all aspects is lower if a kid is playing tennis or working out for 6 hours a day, everyday.

C. Again, maybe if top 10 ITF junior, there might be a 1 percent chance of making it on the tour. If trying to be top 500 by 18, that’s a lot to give up to just say you made it to that benchmark.

 

[TennisBro]

My main points were

Yeah, you have some points somewhere along there and perhaps on the topic somewhere in your mumbo jumbo there.

“The problem of some parents (and coaches) is that they have never read any Sports Science recommendations. My personal opinion is if a junior tennis player has talent, then 15 hours a week tennis training + fitness and tournaments is more than enough for his development. If a tennis player does not have enough talent to play on the pro level, why destroy the young athlete's organism with 30 hours of training a week? It is not a big secret that professional tennis does not make a person's organism any healthier.”

Yeah, you said that before too. Because you repost it doesn't mean that your way is the way parents should follow with their kids. With 10-12 year kids it is not always clear whether they'll be great tennis players and nobody on here has suggested that those young children should have 6-hour training sessions daily. With 15-17 year olds, on the other hand, a lot changes when they make their mark in world junior tennis. What you have done on this thread is mixed up ages and deluded the debate on the topic. If you really think that 16 year old top 200 world junior player should train 15 hours per week, you clearly have little idea about the current state of the top junior ITF competition.

 

[Tennis2349]

Yeah, you have some points somewhere along there and perhaps on the topic somewhere in your mumbo jumbo there.

Yeah, you said that before too. Because you repost it doesn't mean that your way is the way parents should follow with their kids. With 10-12 year kids it is not always clear whether they'll be great tennis players and nobody on here has suggested that those young children should have 6-hour training sessions daily. With 15-17 year olds, on the other hand, a lot changes when they make their mark in world junior tennis. What you have done on this thread is mixed up ages and deluded the debate on the topic. If you really think that 16 year old top 200 world junior player should train 15 hours per week, you clearly have little idea about the current state of the top junior ITF competition.

Those are experts giving their opinion.

The links above are broke down by age, and the amount of hours are different for 12 year olds and 17 year olds.

I’m not saying they DON’T train that much. I know many home school 7-8 UTR that do train that much that are standing still. More hours doesn’t = more improvement. Peer pressure amongst parents, academies making money, and people getting caught up in chasing something are the reason.

I stand by my 2 points.

A. If a kid has talent, an intense 15-20 hours a week will get him there. Kids Learn a lot from sports, but education first.

B. If your kid is not going to make a living as a professional player, it’s not the best idea to sacrifice their entire education to just “get better at tennis”. Long life ahead after tennis , which will basically end at 22 years old. Unless they just want to give tennis lessons the rest of their life, while the kids who trained less and went to school are doctors, lawyers and engineers.

I don’t think very many people out side of the actual parents would support any such idea. “Hey I want to take my kid out of school so he can become a professional basketball/ baseball/ tennis player. He is nowhere close but I think it a great idea”

 

[TennisBro]

@Tennis2349 I thank you for your expert direction and the participation on TTW. I am absolutely certain that others are about to appreciate your clear and trustworthy input as well as your first and second hand experiences.

 

[Tennis2349]

I feel this thread is an example of what is going on in AMERICAN college tennis.

What seems to the intent of playing a sport at an institution of higher learning ? Not the professional tour. But a place where the primary focus is education.

A. Player A trains hard before school and after, balances AP courses and earns excellent grades. Exhibits excellent time management. Becomes a top 200 American tennis player?

B. Player B. From another country, openly states “there is no time for any school”

Player B does not belong in an American institution of higher learning. It’s a wasted spot. Wasted American tax money.

Player b at 18-22 belongs in a full time tennis academy. Actions and words repeated school is not a priority.

So why should they be given priority for a spot in an institution of higher education?

If the player is that good IMG would be giving them a scholarship for tennis.

 

[TennisBro]

@Tennis2349 seems to not only know all the young tennis players, the sport and education inside out but also has a first hand experience out of the WH office. Make America Great Again!

 

[ClarkC]

Haven't checked this thread in a while. Have we still decided that the only suitable options are Georgia State and Kennesaw State? Why exactly is that the case?

 

[Tennis2349]

Haven't checked this thread in a while. Have we still decided that the only suitable options are Georgia State and Kennesaw State? Why exactly is that the case?

No. It’s all good now. Someone found an American 9.9 from Indiana that plays for southwest Indiana.

So the plan is to train in the South, let Slovakians play for the local universities, then move to Indiana in the tenth grade, become a farmer, then get in state tuition and possibly a spot on the university of southwest Indiana with a partial scholarship. Unless they go full 10 out of 10 foreigners by then, instead of 8 out of 10. But it’s worth a shot!

 

[LeftyMagic]

No. It’s all good now. Someone found an American 9.9 from Indiana that plays for southwest Indiana.

So the plan is to train in the South, let Slovakians play for the local universities, then move to Indiana in the tenth grade, become a farmer, then get in state tuition and possibly a spot on the university of southwest Indiana with a partial scholarship. Unless they go full 10 out of 10 foreigners by then, instead of 8 out of 10. But it’s worth a shot!

LOL

it was refreshing to actually check richmonds roster and see only americans. the a10 was the conference i played in and good to see its trying to remain the way i left it long ago

 

[Tennis2349]

I verify the roster @andfor messaged me. As I mentioned in another post, there could be more openings in MM D1 for Americans as athletic scholarships are cut, and players instead get a smaller package of mostly merit aid. Son’s former uni went from 5US/3INT roster his freshman year (lineup was 3/3) to 8US/1INT this year due to cuts in athletic scholarships. Son also played at a 2nd MM where he was the only US player in the lineup but he played #1. There would have been a 2nd US player at court 4 but the guy decided to take online courses while working to finish his degree-he still kept his merit scholarship but financially he was better off. Some people wonder why 4 stars are OK with playing club at flagship uni vs playing MM D1 or D2. D1 even at MM level is an enormous time commitment-30+ hrs/wk. There are compliance meetings, service projects, expectations of attending home matches for girls’team and other sports, hosting recruits, travel, etc. Playing club makes it easier for students to keep the grades up for the merit scholarships, be involved with organizations related to major and future career, and to have balance and a social life with some non athletes. I am sure it is even harder for tennis athletes now with coast to cost conference travel. As parents look at TRN and ask why aren’t college coaches recruiting US 4 stars for D1, maybe they have made offers but the packages were better at MMs or the out of state tuition was much higher at a P5 flagship vs a smaller OOS public university. My son received an offer as a 4 star to a mid tier P5 (team that was usually ITA 30-45) but at 12% it wasn’t competitive with better aid at less expensive schools. This is less than a decade ago. He also canceled several P5 official visits realizing the offers would be the same or less. I think college coaches used to have US academy coaches they were friendly with that would supply 4-5stars at very low athletic aid for 5-8 in their lineup or bench. Kids would be smart enough to get some merit or parents might be happy to full pay for kid to be on team and battle for a 5-6 spot. If the House settlement limits rosters, there may be fewer US preferred walk ons.

What is the impact of house vs NCAA? From what I understand


A. Big schools will be able to fund 10 male tennis scholarships. (Taking more top players that would have played at smaller schools)

B. schools will need to offer more football scholarships , and also still be title 9 compliant. (Easiest way would be to cut men non revenue sport like tennis)?

C. Smaller schools will not have as much money but still need to opt in, which will again cut men’s non revenue sports?

 

[andfor]

What is the impact of house vs NCAA? From what I understand


A. Big schools will be able to fund 10 male tennis scholarships. (Taking more top players that would have played at smaller schools)

B. schools will need to offer more football scholarships , and also still be title 9 compliant. (Easiest way would be to cut men non revenue sport like tennis)?

C. Smaller schools will not have as much money but still need to opt in, which will again cut men’s non revenue sports?

The unintended consequences of conference consolidation to the P4 (or whatever it's called) NIL, transfer portal, more athletic scholarships. etc. are still developing. I've loosely predicted that the P4 is so heavily invested in FB and BB revenues that they may cut other programs to pour more resources into them. Again this is just my loose prediction. I also think that non-P4 D1 schools (down through D2, 3, NAIA, Juco) who do not rely on massive FB & BB revenue streams may not see much change and hopefully non-revenue sports will be for the most part safe there.

The new rules allowing for all the wild transfering needs to have a some sort of limit on it for me. Kids doing 4 schools in 4 years is dumb.

 

[Clemson_tennis]

The new rules allowing for all the wild transfering needs to have a some sort of limit on it for me. Kids doing 4 schools in 4 years is dumb.

College tennis used to do the transfer thing well before the rest of the sports. I don’t know why that was the case but transfers were pretty common and players didn’t have to sit out a year like other sports. TopDawg’s Collegetennistoday site used to have a whole page just for transfers cause it was just a tennis thing back then.

Players could also do it more than once. Like Gabriel Diaz-Freire did the Loyola Marymount/Clemson/Alabama/LSU career tour before the transfer portal was a thing.

Now of course it happens a ton in every sport.

 

[Tennis2349]

What is a waiver to play another year?

Saw govind nanda is playing his 6th year and transferring?

 

[ClarkC]

What is a waiver to play another year?

Saw govind nanda is playing his 6th year and transferring?

That was an April Fool's Day joke from the CollegeTennisNation Twitter account.

 

[andfor]

College tennis used to do the transfer thing well before the rest of the sports. I don’t know why that was the case but transfers were pretty common and players didn’t have to sit out a year like other sports. TopDawg’s Collegetennistoday site used to have a whole page just for transfers cause it was just a tennis thing back then.

Players could also do it more than once. Like Gabriel Diaz-Freire did the Loyola Marymount/Clemson/Alabama/LSU career tour before the transfer portal was a thing.

Now of course it happens a ton in every sport.

Good call on the Gabriel Diaz-Freire 4 schools in 4 years. I recall that.

I'm old school, don't care, but back in the day, there were transfer rules. When transferring D1, in order to prevent sitting out, a player had to transfer out of conference. Transferring in conference had to sit for 1 yr. This no longer appears to be the case, not for a while anyway.

The musical chairs on FB & BB rosters is what bothers me most, same as it does in the pros. One aspect I like over college sport verses the pros, is you could count on some level of continuity in the line ups year over year. For many, this was a big factor for those who prefered college sports over the pros.

Free agency has not helped the fan base loyalty to teams, it's created player fans, which I despise. Yeah, the college sport landscape has changed with NIL and the transfer portal, it's like the wild west now a days. If that's gonna be the new way in college sports so be it. As far as I'm concerned the NCAA can continue to make these dumb changes at their own peril. They've proven to be good at it.

 

[jviss]

Good call on the Gabriel Diaz-Freire 4 schools in 4 years. I recall that.

I'm old school, don't care, but back in the day, there were transfer rules. When transferring D1, in order to prevent sitting out, a player had to transfer out of conference. Transferring in conference had to sit for 1 yr. This no longer appears to be the case, not for a while anyway.

The musical chairs on FB & BB rosters is what bothers me most, same as it does in the pros. One aspect I like over college sport verses the pros, is you could count on some level of continuity in the line ups year over year. For many, this was a big factor for those who prefered college sports over the pros.

Free agency has not helped the fan base loyalty to teams, it's created player fans, which I despise. Yeah, the college sport landscape has changed with NIL and the transfer portal, it's like the wild west now a days. If that's gonna be the new way in college sports so be it. As far as I'm concerned the NCAA can continue to make these dumb changes at their own peril. They've proven to be good at it.

Agree but not sure how to make it work. In college tennis it’s really cool to see players grow on the same team but there are so many factors.
What if a coach that recruited you leaves the school? Fired for cause? Fired without cause? Fired for harassment? Death in family and want to move closer to home. The school you chose sucks in every imaginable way. What if you’re on not on scholarship? Does that factor in if you can transfer. NIL is wild too. All sorts of stuff.
NCAA did such a poor job of managing all of this. They essentially created what we are now through bureaucratic incompetence and greed. The process/appeals system was a joke. Took forever and they got it wrong so many times. The sitting out 1 year was absurd. I remember reading about coaches essentially blocking players from transferring. No way anyone is going back to this but I still haven’t heard any other good ideas.

 

[andfor]

Agree but not sure how to make it work. In college tennis it’s really cool to see players grow on the same team but there are so many factors.
What if a coach that recruited you leaves the school? Fired for cause? Fired without cause? Fired for harassment? Death in family and want to move closer to home. The school you chose sucks in every imaginable way. What if you’re on not on scholarship? Does that factor in if you can transfer. NIL is wild too. All sorts of stuff.
NCAA did such a poor job of managing all of this. They essentially created what we are now through bureaucratic incompetence and greed. The process/appeals system was a joke. Took forever and they got it wrong so many times. The sitting out 1 year was absurd. I remember reading about coaches essentially blocking players from transferring. No way anyone is going back to this but I still haven’t heard any other good ideas.

I'm not advocating for sitting out 1 yr., and am not against transferring. Heck I transfered once and and for me it was a good move. Even under the much older rules athletes could transfer, it took a little more thought before doing so, players had to get a release from their current school, etc. The release is the coaches or administration blocking a player from playing immediately which you are referring to. Not for that either.

My broader point is players transferring 2 or more times and the frequency that it now happens (musical chairs) bothers me most. Just my personal opinion but I don't think I'm alone.