Recording your Tennis Matches..... Etiquette?

Badmrfrosty

Rookie
Curious what the current consensus on recording your competitive tennis matches against strangers?

I found a thread on this but it is 6 years old..... some interesting answers.
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/etiquette-for-recording-matches.456756/

I'm of the opinion you have to ask 100%. But, is it bad etiquette to even ask?

I'm also not sure how to ask in a way that allows the person to not feel pressured to say yes.

I'm currently of the opinion I'd only try to record match (ask them of course) if I have played them before and they are better than me or close to equal.

What is your opinion on an opponent wanting to record the tennis match?
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
If an opponent uses images or video of me to put on any kind of social media or makes any profit at at all from it, then absolutely not. In fact, just assume your opponent will say no. The only way to get match video of yourself playing would be to set up a match with your friends where the notion that it will be on video is understood upfront. If you randomly show up to a USTA match or a local league match of any kind, it would be inappropriate to even bring up videoing the match.
 

Badmrfrosty

Rookie
If an opponent uses images or video of me to put on any kind of social media or makes any profit at at all from it, then absolutely not. In fact, just assume your opponent will say no. The only way to get match video of yourself playing would be to set up a match with your friends where the notion that it will be on video is understood upfront. If you randomly show up to a USTA match or a local league match of any kind, it would be inappropriate to even bring up videoing the match.
Appreciate the response, think you are the first person to say that.

I was surprised one guy in that thread from 2013 said if anyone said no to him recording he would never play with them again and think less of them....

Seemed like everyone else didn't seem to care if someone records them.

Glad to get updated 2019 perspective. I just like having video so I can see what I'm doing wrong.
 

timtennis

New User
Appreciate the response, think you are the first person to say that.

Glad to get updated 2019 perspective. I just like having video so I can see what I'm doing wrong.
I feel the same. I think if you approach it from the perspective of self improvement, it's pretty non-threatening. Have had many people in my area reach out over email as my channel has grown interested in hitting but also seeing themselves on camera for improvement
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
Appreciate the response, think you are the first person to say that.

I was surprised one guy in that thread from 2013 said if anyone said no to him recording he would never play with them again and think less of them....

Seemed like everyone else didn't seem to care if someone records them.

Glad to get updated 2019 perspective. I just like having video so I can see what I'm doing wrong.
That would be fine. But it’s not so much about the tennis. You never know what someone is going to do with video of you. The way social media and video manipulation is today, if someone that you do not know tries to video you, it is best to just say no. Even if they do not financially profit from it, there is no telling what they can do with your images and pictures. For instance, women constantly have to worry about “creeper” pics when in public these days. I would never allow strangers to walk up and photograph me or my family, even if they were going to give me a copy. You just don’t know. If I just met a stranger on a tennis court for a match and they wanted to start recording me, that would be creepy and I would look for a way to diffuse the situation and leave as soon as possible.
 

tomato123

Professional
I don't think it's generally bad etiquette to ask, I've had this happen a couple times from people I met for the first time (in a non-league or tournament setting) and when they ask me if they could record our match, I will ask them if this is for their youtube channel or some other purpose. If they say it's to observe their own game, I will ask if they could share the video with me also for my own improvement and exchange emails.

I haven't met any youtubers, but I'd probably be inclined to kindly say no to the recording if it's going to be public, but it just might depend on how comfortable/uncomfortable I feel on a given day. If I were asked in a league or tournament match, I'd also feel inclined to say no.
 

Badmrfrosty

Rookie
I don't think it's generally bad etiquette to ask, I've had this happen a couple times from people I met for the first time (in a non-league or tournament setting) and when they ask me if they could record our match, I will ask them if this is for their youtube channel or some other purpose. If they say it's to observe their own game, I will ask if they could share the video with me also for my own improvement and exchange emails.

I haven't met any youtubers, but I'd probably be inclined to kindly say no to the recording if it's going to be public, but it just might depend on how comfortable/uncomfortable I feel on a given day. If I were asked in a league or tournament match, I'd also feel inclined to say no.
Ok these are very different responses than 2013. Glad I asked. Why would you say no to league or tournament match?
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
Curious what the current consensus on recording your competitive tennis matches against strangers?
I always ask and let them know exactly where it will be hosted. I played a dozen matches last year and only a copule agreed to be recorded. Well, some said they wouldn't mind, but only to post if they played well. In that case I had a couple they asked I just destroy the evidence. I have a bunch of matches recorded but only a few get posted in public. The rest I share with the opponents for review only.
 

tomato123

Professional
Ok these are very different responses than 2013. Glad I asked. Why would you say no to league or tournament match?
Because mental strength is a development area for me at this time and I'd prefer not to have the added distraction :) Even in friendly matches and hits, if it's being recorded, it's always on the back of my mind even to a small degree. Maybe when I get better at the mental game and focus, I might feel more comfortable with it.
 

Badmrfrosty

Rookie
I always ask and let them know exactly where it will be hosted. I played a dozen matches last year and only a copule agreed to be recorded. Well, some said they wouldn't mind, but only to post if they played well. In that case I had a couple they asked I just destroy the evidence. I have a bunch of matches recorded but only a few get posted in public. The rest I share with the opponents for review only.
Maybe off topic. BUT.
Is there a blur all faces filter for iMovie? If snapchat can swap peoples faces I would technology exists in iMovie where it automatically blurs all faces it finds in a clip.
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
Ok these are very different responses than 2013. Glad I asked. Why would you say no to league or tournament match?
Social media, video manipulation, and creepy things that bad men do with video devices are very different in 2019 than 2013.

To get around this, many tournaments are now offering video recordings of matches on certain courts that take place at their tournaments if both parties agree ahead of time.
 

Cashman

Hall of Fame
In my country, the legal rules differ based on circumstances:
  1. Filming on Crown land for personal use: no permission needed
  2. Filming on private land for personal use: need permission of land owner and occupier
  3. Filming anywhere for financial gain: need permission of land owner, occupier, and any people appearing in the footage
If you intend to put the footage on YouTube and monetise it, it would technically fall under (3). But I am sure most vloggers don't bother getting the appropriate releases.

Regardless of all that - etiquette-wise, I personally think you should seek permission of your opponent in all circumstances (both to film them, and for subsequent use of the footage) and offer them a copy. It's just polite. Being filmed on a tennis court for 2 hours is very different to appearing in the background of a photo, or briefly walk through a tourist video.
 
Video is becoming more common - people seem to take a picture of everything because we have phones attached to us now. There's nothing wrong with asking if done nicely, most people I ask think it's fun and interesting.
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
Curious what the current consensus on recording your competitive tennis matches against strangers?

I found a thread on this but it is 6 years old..... some interesting answers.
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/etiquette-for-recording-matches.456756/

I'm of the opinion you have to ask 100%. But, is it bad etiquette to even ask?

I'm also not sure how to ask in a way that allows the person to not feel pressured to say yes.

I'm currently of the opinion I'd only try to record match (ask them of course) if I have played them before and they are better than me or close to equal.

What is your opinion on an opponent wanting to record the tennis match?
Why is it that tennis players are "tennis players"? Let me explain my stupid sounding statement. Why is it that tennis players don't learn from what I call other "arts" (sports).

Chess. Chess games are recorded since chess games are recorded.
Boxing. There are boxing films. That's how boxing techniques improve.

What possible use could there be for filming tennis except to improve techniques and strategies? There isn't another use.

But, is it bad etiquette to even ask?
Answer this question: What could the possible use of filming a tennis match be?
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
The UFC is the re-invention of chess.



Many times, many people, including Holly Holm said that fighting is a chess game.
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
Why is it that tennis players are "tennis players"? Let me explain my stupid sounding statement. Why is it that tennis players don't learn from what I call other "arts" (sports).

Chess. Chess games are recorded since chess games are recorded.
In a face to face chess club, it is your duty to record the game on pencil and paper.
In online games, the computer record the games.
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
What possible use could there be for filming tennis except to improve techniques and strategies?
I can think of many. The first that jumps out is content for a youtube channel. Getting someone to star in your content for free. Kind of like crowd sourcing. I think in this case you should definitely get the consent of your opponent.
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
I can think of many. The first that jumps out is content for a youtube channel. Getting someone to star in your content for free. Kind of like crowd sourcing. I think in this case you should definitely get the consent of your opponent.
These are amateur games. Who's going to pay for amateur videos? There are tennis professionals that have pay websites. There are professionally produced tennis videos for sale on VHS, DVDs, streaming.
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
These are amateur games. Who's going to pay for amateur videos? There are tennis professionals that have pay websites. There are professionally produced tennis videos.
Even if people pay for amateur videos, that would only work if you win. If you play and you win, people might watch it. If you play and you lost, the guy you lost to could put up the same video on Patreon and people would watch him and not you.
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
These are amateur games. Who's going to pay for amateur videos? There are tennis professionals that have pay websites. There are professionally produced tennis videos for sale on VHS, DVDs, streaming.
Who said pay? I said content. Content to get more subscribers, content to build a channel up to get more views and friends --maybe to even gain a low level of fame. Again to source your content from a stranger you should ask for permission.
 
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LGQ7

Hall of Fame
Who said pay? I said content. Content to get more subscribers, content to build a channel up to get more views and friends. Again to source your content from a stranger you should ask for permission.
Same thing. The guy you lost to could put up the same video and get more subscribers.
 

sovertennis

Professional
Because mental strength is a development area for me at this time and I'd prefer not to have the added distraction :) Even in friendly matches and hits, if it's being recorded, it's always on the back of my mind even to a small degree. Maybe when I get better at the mental game and focus, I might feel more comfortable with it.
RE: a tennis match this is my feeling as well, and it's not because of any mental strength issues; it's simply that I don't want the intrusion, regardless of how small it may seem. At one of the court complexes where I'm member, Playsight is installed, so I use that when I'm practicing. Obviously, my practice partner(s) uses it as well.
 

Heck

Rookie
I have a YouTube channel where I do post usta match video. Almost never a full match but the best points from all the players as to not make anyone look bad. If it is a lopsided match it may not even be used.
I make sure to ask and tell them I may put it on my channel and pay special attention to the reaction. If they really seem into it then it's a go. Also, I only shoot USTA video on courts that are public or semi subsidized
by the public. This way if a problem comes up I can claim that you have no expectation of privacy in a public area. I would never do a video in a private club unless they are friends and fully agree.

At a Regional USTA match, I was taking a video of my teams matches with a pocket camera all morning while walking around. When the other teams were falling behind in score the supporters complained and
the ref stopped the match to tell me I could not video anymore unless I got permission from the organizer. So I asked the organizer and said I was getting some footage so players who could not make the trip
can enjoy some of the action. That is when I was told she got complaints from the other side. Oh well. I still used the video where my team members were the only ones in the shot.
 

stapletonj

Hall of Fame
funny observation. team vs. individual sports. look at the number of parents videoing their kids team sports and matches. No permission asked and no one thinks a thing.
perhaps because it is a pretty much individual sport?
 

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
This situation is very easy to deal with.

You can agree to being recorded on the proviso that you are granted co-ownership of the recording. This covers off all the potential legal and usage issues of the content.

If the party want to do the recording does not agree to this condition then you can refuse. It the party persists you simply refuse to play the match until the recording devices are removed.
 

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
do you guys have any tips for increasing views/subscription count for us?
Include the following information on your videos ...

Date of Match
Location of Match
Court Surface
Weather Conditions
Quality of Players (UTR Rating / National Association Ranking / NTRP Rating / US College Level)
Racquet Specs and String Configuration of Each Player
Brand of Tennis Ball used.
Match Score (if pertinent)

The internet is full of videos of people hitting tennis balls. The more information you can provide with each video, the more likely you are to attract a following because the "voyeur factor" is huge.
 

tomato123

Professional
Hi Tim, huge fan of you and your channel.

To everyone, I don’t know if this is rude to ask but if you first started to make a profit by making your videos public, do you ever have players reach back out to you and want a portion of it? Or is providing a recording of their play practically your payment for their services? Don’t answer that if you don’t feel comfortable but do you guys have any tips for increasing views/subscription count for us? I‘ve attached one of our more recent play for your references.

I have a couple friends who get decent monetization from their youtube channels (not tennis, though), and they (along with most successful youtube content creators) identify consistency as the #1 most important factor to building and sustaining your channel's success. Another important aspect of youtube that they always talk about is how youtube deploys a certain algorithm that decides whether your videos will appear on a particular viewer population's feeds, and I'm not even going to pretend to know how this works. But basically if you do enough research and get an idea of how you fit into that algorithm, you can absolutely use that to your advantage. Channels that blew up this year like Tennis Troll and Tennis Spin come to mind, and both channels seemed to have benefited from that ideal alignment of putting out quality content on a frequent basis, and the youtube algorithm working in their favor. But technicalities aside, consistency seems to be the most important for aspiring content creators and everything else is distant secondary.

And as for the first question, my opinion is that this goes back to the etiquette issue of being up front and transparent about why the match is being recorded. It will most likely help to set the boundaries at the start. And if someone demands to take that $5 cut for your 1000 views, I'm not sure I want to even engage in a friendly match with them.
 

tomato123

Professional
Hi Tim, huge fan of you and your channel.

To everyone, I don’t know if this is rude to ask but if you first started to make a profit by making your videos public, do you ever have players reach back out to you and want a portion of it? Or is providing a recording of their play practically your payment for their services? Don’t answer that if you don’t feel comfortable but do you guys have any tips for increasing views/subscription count for us? I‘ve attached one of our more recent play for your references.

Oh, forgot to say good luck out there with your channel :)
 

MathGeek

Hall of Fame
Taking video in public is completely legal and one does not need permission of people in public.

But taking video of a tennis opponent without asking, while legal, is considered a breach of tennis etiquette, so it is best to ask.

At a lot of courts, it isn't too hard to get an angle from the side so only one player (you rather than opponent) appears.
No breach of etiquette if permission is denied from opponent.
 

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
Taking video in public is completely legal and one does not need permission of people in public.
You cannot apply that generalisation to all countries.

In Australia taking video in a Private Tennis club without consent of those being filmed is NOT legal. And usually permission must be granted by the owner or management of the Club as well as the players themselves. Most tennis courts in Australia that are accessible to the public are situated in Private Clubs on private property. There are some exceptions but they are rare.

However, it is legal to take video of people playing tennis in a Private Club if you are situated in a public area ... for example, you might be able to see the tennis court from a Public Road, carpark or Park. In those cases, it is not necessary to acquire consent from those being filmed.

It is generally legal to video people in a public space without consent. However there is one clear exception. If you are making a Film, you may require a Permit from the Local Government Authority to conduct filming activities.
 

Heck

Rookie
I tell people who I ask if it's ok to use for my channel then we joke if it goes viral I will share some profit lol. At that point if I do share profit then a small contract
will be used at some point. But it will never make money if it is not uploaded. I can tell by the first reaction if it is going to be ok. If it gets bad comments I can disable them
or just take down the video. It's is not a big deal but I can see a problem if zero permission was asked.
 

time_fly

Hall of Fame
I’d actually like to record some of my matches to get feedback on my play, including strategies and not just stroke technique (I could do solo videos with a ball machine for that). I haven’t quite worked up the nerve to do it. But in addition to asking permission, I’d give the person an out where they could tell me not to share it afterwards if they have an off day and get crushed.
 

Flootoo

Rookie
I'm sure if you announced that you had a camera, and some way of analysing the match, there would be people happy to play and benefit from the analysis too.
 

socallefty

Professional
Here is an example of a reason why someone might not want their match taped. My club set me up to play a social doubles match last month against a player I don’t know and the front desk guy told me that he is very good. So, I googled his ‘name+tennis‘ and found out that he is a very successful tournament player for his age group and found a YouTube video of a tournament doubles final he played a couple of years ago.

I watched the video and was able to get a good scouting report of his game - he hit a lot of lob returns on kick serves to his BH, he poached a lot from I-formation with signals when his partner served from the deuce court, he played Aussie formation when his partner served on ad and poached a lot with signals, he served mostly top-slice even on his 2nd serve and didn’t have a wide kick on ad, he used drop-return/lob combos a lot etc. I shared this with my partner and we were prepared before the match started with our tactics to counter him and it helped us to win a close 2-set match. Without the video, it might have taken us an entire set to figure out his tendencies and we might have lost the 1st set as he used unconventional formations (I, Aussie) all the time and signaled intentional poaches a lot - a textbook case of always ensuring that the net player gets a FH-volley on the move.

So, every opponent who plays him in the future including in tournaments and USTA leagues will be able to scout him and there will be no surprise element regarding his use of unconventional formations and the lack of a good kick serve.
 
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ChaelAZ

Legend
Around TT, most players would rather live the level in their mind, than record themselves and be proven otherwise. And certainly no one shares!

I don't believe in recording anything. I am a 3.0 so even I don't want to watch that.
 
F

FRV3

Guest
Around TT, most players would rather live the level in their mind, than record themselves and be proven otherwise. And certainly no one shares!

I don't believe in recording anything. I am a 3.0 so even I don't want to watch that.
Lol, you are not 3.0
 

atatu

Legend
I generally only video friends or guys who I know won't mind and I always edit my videos so it's just the "highlights" that way everyone looks good. So far, everyone who I have recorded has really enjoyed the highlights.
 
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