Recovering after the serve

EddieBrock

Hall of Fame
This is something I don't do very well. I'm really focused on hitting a good serve and then watch it to see how it bounces and then never recover properly. The other day I was hitting cross court with someone and doing very well. Then I tried serving and playing out cross court points and I just don't move to the return well even if I have a decent serve.

What do you think of the advice from Salezentein here? I'm not sure what I do, but I think I just split inside the court and maybe take 1 step back.

 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
This is something I don't do very well. I'm really focused on hitting a good serve and then watch it to see how it bounces and then never recover properly. The other day I was hitting cross court with someone and doing very well. Then I tried serving and playing out cross court points and I just don't move to the return well even if I have a decent serve.

I guess it's because the ball is dominating your attention.

Try this: do a shadow serve without the ball but with everything else [ie full motion, racquet drop, trophy pose, leg drive, etc.]. Work on your recovery [land, split, and recover].

When you get comfortable, add the ball back in. You will likely immediately revert. No worries; that's normal. It takes a lot of reps to erase one habit and form another.

Look at this clip from Top Tennis Training: even though there's no commentary, it's obvious what's being demonstrated.

For example, in the first section, Simon is demonstrating two options: land and recover vs land and move forward. The former is if you plan to stay back and the latter is if you want to S&V.

 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
This is something I don't do very well. I'm really focused on hitting a good serve and then watch it to see how it bounces and then never recover properly. The other day I was hitting cross court with someone and doing very well. Then I tried serving and playing out cross court points and I just don't move to the return well even if I have a decent serve.

What do you think of the advice from Salezentein here? I'm not sure what I do, but I think I just split inside the court and maybe take 1 step back.


BTW: I wrote my first reply before I watched Salzy's video. I think it's the same basic concept as Top Tennis Training or practically everyone else for that matter: the key is regaining your balance and readiness after the serve. Some people put so much effort and concentration into their serve that they neglect what happens after.

Here are a couple of examples of mine:


 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
Practice your serves without a partner. Hit enough so that your serve is warmed up and you are getting a good percentage of them into the box.

After your serve is warmed up, you are ready for the next step --> serve + recovery. Let your serve motion carry you into the court. Take one large step backward or 2 steps as Jeff shows and then split step.

As you are watching these practice serves, make sure that you are stepping backward and executing your SS at the appropriate time. That SS should happen before your serve bounces a 2nd time.

That SS should also happen before the ball crosses the baseline. For wide serves, be sure to SS before the ball crosses the double sideline.
 

nyta2

Legend
This is something I don't do very well. I'm really focused on hitting a good serve and then watch it to see how it bounces and then never recover properly. The other day I was hitting cross court with someone and doing very well. Then I tried serving and playing out cross court points and I just don't move to the return well even if I have a decent serve.

What do you think of the advice from Salezentein here? I'm not sure what I do, but I think I just split inside the court and maybe take 1 step back.

i spent quite a bit of time landing on right, then using it to push back to behind the baseline.
similar kind of practice taking a left footed "jab step" when moving back for an overhead
 

mainmain

New User
Wow, I have exactly the same problem.
In my case I'm pretty sure it has gone worse when I started practicing serve so much... With no effort to get used to quick recover... I just settled in a lazy routine of contemplating the ball.
Double punishment: with better serves the return comes back quicker, when it does...
 

EddieBrock

Hall of Fame
Wow, I have exactly the same problem.
In my case I'm pretty sure it has gone worse when I started practicing serve so much... With no effort to get used to quick recover... I just settled in a lazy routine of contemplating the ball.
Double punishment: with better serves the return comes back quicker, when it does...

Yep, I've been serving better but then not winning as many points as I'd like with the return coming back quicker. Funny/not funny side story. Whenever I hit my 1st serve I've been trying to get ready for the next shot right away without trying to decide if the serve way in. In my last doubles match I hit a serve I was sure was out so I didn't get ready and watched the return fly by me. The opponents and my partner confirmed the serve was in.

I think gaining more confidence in my serve will at some point also negate staring at how good/bad it is and whether it jumps up and to the right (for 2nd serve) and I'll get the step(s) and split step timing better.
 

sredna42

Hall of Fame
I have this problem, the serve has given me so much trouble that all the endless repetitions obsessing over it, but not the recovery aspect, has left me in bad stead.
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Instead of being engaged in the point its like I'm just watching the ball to see if it will go in, and amazed if it does, THEN start thinking about recovery and the incoming return etc.

I am thinking that I need to be concentrating on planning on dictating what return I get with the serve, and mentally preparing for it as I serve. Deep returns are killing me at the moment, the are at my feet before I have even done anything
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Yep, I've been serving better but then not winning as many points as I'd like with the return coming back quicker. Funny/not funny side story. Whenever I hit my 1st serve I've been trying to get ready for the next shot right away without trying to decide if the serve way in. In my last doubles match I hit a serve I was sure was out so I didn't get ready and watched the return fly by me. The opponents and my partner confirmed the serve was in.

I think gaining more confidence in my serve will at some point also negate staring at how good/bad it is and whether it jumps up and to the right (for 2nd serve) and I'll get the step(s) and split step timing better.

I don't think you should wait for confidence to solve your readiness. You should practice readiness now and forget about whether the serve is in. Just assume it's in until proven otherwise.
 

EddieBrock

Hall of Fame
I don't think you should wait for confidence to solve your readiness. You should practice readiness now and forget about whether the serve is in. Just assume it's in until proven otherwise.

That's what I've been doing. I've been getting ready after every serve and feel a bit foolish when I split step and the other player then says it was out, like it was obvious. So for just that 1 serve I thought it was obviously out and didn't move, but it was actually in.

Aside from continuing to improve my serve I think this move as well as general movement is going to help my game a lot.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
That's what I've been doing. I've been getting ready after every serve and feel a bit foolish when I split step and the other player then says it was out, like it was obvious. So for just that 1 serve I thought it was obviously out and didn't move, but it was actually in.

Aside from continuing to improve my serve I think this move as well as general movement is going to help my game a lot.
Not following. Y would you feel foolish? You should be initiating your SS just before your opponent makes contact on their serves or other strokes so that you are the top of your hop at the moment they make contact.

If you SS at the proper time, in most cases, you will have a little or no idea if their serve/shot will be IN or OUT. This should not prevent you from initiating a SS (nearly) every time.
 

EddieBrock

Hall of Fame
Not following. Y would you feel foolish? You should be initiating your SS just before your opponent makes contact on their serves or other strokes so that you are the top of your hop at the moment they make contact.

If you SS at the proper time, in most cases, you will have a little or no idea if their serve/shot will be IN or OUT. This should not prevent you from initiating a SS (nearly) every time.

I don't know why. I guess it's just moving back and doing the SS feels like it is wasting extra energy. Also, the tone from the opponents when I've done the SS and am starting to move towards the return makes it sound like it was obvious the serve was out so they're wondering why I'm still moving towards it.

Like I said, that was hopefully just a 1 time thing. I'm committed to getting better at this so will do it every time now. Especially with a doubles partner to confirm the call on my serve I'll be ready!
 

weelie

Professional
I know I am bad at this. But I am terrible in S&V as well. I wonder if I could effectively practice that as well (i tend to run through instead of split stepping). I thought of trying s&v against a ball machine once, but then thought it were too much of a hassle.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
I don't know why. I guess it's just moving back and doing the SS feels like it is wasting extra energy. Also, the tone from the opponents when I've done the SS and am starting to move towards the return makes it sound like it was obvious the serve was out so they're wondering why I'm still moving towards it.

Like I said, that was hopefully just a 1 time thing. I'm committed to getting better at this so will do it every time now. Especially with a doubles partner to confirm the call on my serve I'll be ready!
EDIT: It seems that I had forgotten that you were referring to a SS after your own serve. I had answered as if you were talking about executing a SS after your opponents serve. Nonetheless, much of this post still applies.

Stepping back and the SS? IMO it's better to move forward and then SS instead. In most cases, a forward momentum rather than a retreating momentum is preferred. Take a look at a video of Andy Murray 2C exactly what I mean.

Don't see it as a waste of energy at all. In fact, it will help to keep you in your heart and breathing in your target (aerobic) range where you actually produce energy more efficiently. You will be less static. Competitive tennis actually requires both aerobic and anaerobic energy production. Something like 60/40 to 40/60.

Again, if you SS at the proper time, if your opponents serve / shot it's going to be in or out until sometime after you land. Executing the SS every time, should also keep you in the rhythm of the game. It should help to keep you alert as well. And it's good practice for your SS/ footwork timing.

If executing the SS every time seems to deplete your available energy stores, then there is likely something lacking with your fitness level.
 
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S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
I don't know why. I guess it's just moving back and doing the SS feels like it is wasting extra energy.

It's only wasting energy if you knew it was out. But since you didn't know that, you can't be expected to divine the future. Keep splitting.

Also, the tone from the opponents when I've done the SS and am starting to move towards the return makes it sound like it was obvious the serve was out so they're wondering why I'm still moving towards it.

I'd ignore that. Why let your opponent dictate how you're going to prepare? How you do it is your business and yours alone.

Now, if you're the type who calls the serve out when it hits the back fence on the fly, then we need to talk.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
I know I am bad at this. But I am terrible in S&V as well. I wonder if I could effectively practice that as well (i tend to run through instead of split stepping). I thought of trying s&v against a ball machine once, but then thought it were too much of a hassle.

You don't even need a ball machine. Just use the wall. Stand about 20' away and hit a GS and come in [adjust your starting position to fit your level; and start slowly: no need to blast the ball]. split step as the ball is coming off the wall when you figure out where it's going to go. Some walls are made out of wood and have wonky bounces that will test you more than concrete ones that have more predictable rebounds.

If you want to get better at the technique, it's not too much of a hassle, IMO.
 

Dragy

Legend
Stepping back and the SS? IMO it's better to move forward and then SS instead. In most cases, a forward momentum rather than a retreating momentum is preferred. Take a look at a video of Andy Murray 2C exactly what I mean.

Don't see it as a waste of energy at all. In fact, it will help to keep you in your heart and breathing in your target (aerobic) range where you actually produce energy more efficiently. You will be less static. Competitive tennis actually requires both aerobic and anaerobic energy production. Something like 60/40 to 40/60.

Again, if you SS at the proper time, if your opponents serve / shot it's going to be in or out until sometime after you land. Executing the SS every time, should also keep you in the rhythm of the game. It should help to keep you alert as well. And it's good practice for your SS/ footwork timing.

If executing the SS every time seems to deplete your available energy stores, then there is likely something lacking with your fitness level.
It seems to me you discuss different situation than @EddieBrock struggles with: he was talking about him serving and recovering and split-stepping for opponent's return, while his serve may or may not be good. So when he serves, steps back and makes his SS, while opponent (with delay) reports the ball as obvious fault, it feel awkward. So @EddieBrock falls into bad habit of serving, landing, looking for the serve to be good or not, then reacting to the return shot without proper recovery...

Anyway, 1 step back, to be just behind the BL, and a split step as returner swings - basic things.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
@EddieBrock
It seems to me you discuss different situation than @EddieBrock struggles with: he was talking about him serving and recovering and split-stepping for opponent's return, while his serve may or may not be good. So when he serves, steps back and makes his SS, while opponent (with delay) reports the ball as obvious fault, it feel awkward. So @EddieBrock falls into bad habit of serving, landing, looking for the serve to be good or not, then reacting to the return shot without proper recovery...

Anyway, 1 step back, to be just behind the BL, and a split step as returner swings - basic things.
Oops. When I jumped back into this thread, I had forgotten he was talking about a SS after his own serve rather than his opponent's serve. Had conflated this thread with another.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
That's what I've been doing. I've been getting ready after every serve and feel a bit foolish when I split step and the other player then says it was out, like it was obvious. So for just that 1 serve I thought it was obviously out and didn't move, but it was actually in.
Ok, I'm back on the right page again.

After your own serve, you should executing a SS whenever your opponent takes a swing at your serve. I assume you are not executing a SS if they don't swing at the serve, correct?

Are they calling the serve out prior to swinging at it? Are they waiting till after they hit the ball to call the serve out?
 

EddieBrock

Hall of Fame
Ok, I'm back on the right page again.

After your own serve, you should executing a SS whenever your opponent takes a swing at your serve. I assume you are not executing a SS if they don't swing at the serve, correct?

Are they calling the serve out prior to swinging at it? Are they waiting till after they hit the ball to call the serve out?

I'm hitting the serve and then preparing as mentioned previously right after I've landed. I have a bad habit of pulling off the serve to see if it goes in so I've also been trying to keep my head up a bit longer. Anyway, it feels like I'm doing the SS right around when they're making contact. Not sure if it's right before or after.

The issue is they hit the return and if I don't hear an out call I get myself ready to go for the return. Often times I hear a "that serve was out" or something like that with kind of a negative tone. Since I'm trying to not stare at how good my serve was I'm not sure, but from my POV it's not obvious whether the serve is in or not. If I hit the serve way wide I don't go for it. It's the long serves that I can't tell. If the opponent would call as he was making contact or immediately after it wouldn't be an issue.

As an aside. I played a doubles match recently where I wasn't doing much moving and was losing badly. There was just no energy on the court and very short points. I moved like you're supposed to at the net, but was kind of just going through the motions. Then I finally got a point with a long rally that got my hear rate up and all of a sudden it was like I finally woke up and I started playing much better. So there's definitely something to not having your hear rate too low.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
I'm hitting the serve and then preparing as mentioned previously right after I've landed. I have a bad habit of pulling off the serve to see if it goes in so I've also been trying to keep my head up a bit longer. Anyway, it feels like I'm doing the SS right around when they're making contact. Not sure if it's right before or after.

The issue is they hit the return and if I don't hear an out call I get myself ready to go for the return. Often times I hear a "that serve was out" or something like that with kind of a negative tone. Since I'm trying to not stare at how good my serve was I'm not sure, but from my POV it's not obvious whether the serve is in or not. If I hit the serve way wide I don't go for it. It's the long serves that I can't tell. If the opponent would call as he was making contact or immediately after it wouldn't be an issue.

As an aside. I played a doubles match recently where I wasn't doing much moving and was losing badly. There was just no energy on the court and very short points. I moved like you're supposed to at the net, but was kind of just going through the motions. Then I finally got a point with a long rally that got my hear rate up and all of a sudden it was like I finally woke up and I started playing much better. So there's definitely something to not having your hear rate too low.
It's my experience, and the majority of others (I believe), that it is actually easier, in most cases, for the server to see a serve that is long, say 5-10 cm (2-4 inches), than it is for the receiver.

Because of the incident angle of the incoming serve, many returners will have a difficult time determining if a serve that is slightly long is, indeed, long. The server OTOH should be able to see a gap between the back service line and the bounce location of the ball if it is slightly long.

A serve that is much longer than this, should be fairly obvious to both players. Are you having problems seeing the bounce location of your serves? Even if you are still looking at the CP when you make contact with the ball on your serve, you should have plenty of time to see the ball crossing the net and hitting the court surface.

Visual acuity problems (static or dynamic) for moderate or a long distances? Or do you have an issue with visual tracking skills?
 
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Shroud

Talk Tennis Guru
BTW: I wrote my first reply before I watched Salzy's video. I think it's the same basic concept as Top Tennis Training or practically everyone else for that matter: the key is regaining your balance and readiness after the serve. Some people put so much effort and concentration into their serve that they neglect what happens after.

Here are a couple of examples of mine:


OMG. Look at the weirdo in yellow on the other court. he looks normal enough but my weirdo meter is buzzing. Watch out for that dude. I bet he is the kind of weirdo that hangs out of forums and gives "monthly challenges" or something just to unload his old shirts...
 

Dragy

Legend
The issue is they hit the return and if I don't hear an out call I get myself ready to go for the return. Often times I hear a "that serve was out" or something like that with kind of a negative tone. Since I'm trying to not stare at how good my serve was I'm not sure, but from my POV it's not obvious whether the serve is in or not. If I hit the serve way wide I don't go for it. It's the long serves that I can't tell. If the opponent would call as he was making contact or immediately after it wouldn't be an issue.
Yeah that happens. Just calmly ask them to call out balls on their side, make them sure you are not trying to hook, but don't see clearly - so rely on their call. If they still go negative - well, that's on their part. If they hit the ball back without saying nothing, imply it's in play.
 
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