I find that foot faulting is a major issue even in higher level tournaments and many umpires have failed to call foot faults..... This is much more so in self-officiated competitive games.... How to let your opponent know that he is foot faulting and that his points are therefore not valid? Or should we allow some room for foot faults in recreational games?
Recreational and Even Competitive foot faulting
- Thread starter ProsPro
- Start date
tennis tom
Legend
What kind of tournaments are you talking about, NTRP or Senior Age Group?
johndagolfer
Professional
My take on this is that if it is a blatant footfault, and I mean it's so obviously clear to the naked eye even from 30 feet away, then you can warn them that they are doing and if they continue to do it start calling it.
What I've seen, that bothers me to no end, is people calling footfaults on just on the line type footfaults. Granted, a footfault is a footfault, but there is no way you can be 100% sure someone has footfaulted by an inch or two from across the court, especially when the returning is supposed to be focused on the ball.
So, my two cents is if the footfault is so obvious, my cutoff is a foot, then call it, otherwise just let it go. It's not worth the bad blood that will most likely ensue.
BTW, this is for competitive arenas only. For recreational matches, why bother. Just practice what you're there to practice for and have fun!
What I've seen, that bothers me to no end, is people calling footfaults on just on the line type footfaults. Granted, a footfault is a footfault, but there is no way you can be 100% sure someone has footfaulted by an inch or two from across the court, especially when the returning is supposed to be focused on the ball.
So, my two cents is if the footfault is so obvious, my cutoff is a foot, then call it, otherwise just let it go. It's not worth the bad blood that will most likely ensue.
BTW, this is for competitive arenas only. For recreational matches, why bother. Just practice what you're there to practice for and have fun!
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McLovin
Legend
You need to read The Code on this:
So, essentially, you shouldn't call foot faults unless they are stepping over the line by feet, or are serving in the incorrect position (e.g. on the wrong side of the hash mark). And in singles, its practically impossible to see a foot fault from the other baseline.The Code said:
In doubles you might be able to tell, but again, you need to make all reasonable efforts and it has to be 100% obvious.
And in all honesty, unless your opponent is gaining a huge advantage, its not even worth mentioning during the match. Maybe after you might want to say something, but I'd just "play on" and keep my mouth shut during.
Am referring to Pre-University level national tournaments... saw it happening... players' ability can range from 3.0-5.5.
cknobman
Legend
I usually never notice in singles. There may have been a time or two when they were stepping into the court (over the line) and I have gotten an official to come watch.
Usually I notice it more in doubles because when we are returning and I'm at the net I am focused on the server and not worried about returning the ball.
In this situation if the foot faulting is bad I will say something to the servers partner on changeover and let them take care of it. 95% of the time the server's serve is not good enough to matter anyways so we just let it slide.
Foot faulting only really matters to me if it is obvious the person is doing it on purpose for a competitive advantage or if their serve is so good I am having trouble returning it.
Usually I notice it more in doubles because when we are returning and I'm at the net I am focused on the server and not worried about returning the ball.
In this situation if the foot faulting is bad I will say something to the servers partner on changeover and let them take care of it. 95% of the time the server's serve is not good enough to matter anyways so we just let it slide.
Foot faulting only really matters to me if it is obvious the person is doing it on purpose for a competitive advantage or if their serve is so good I am having trouble returning it.
tennis tom
Legend
Still don't understand what kind of tournaments you're referring to? What's a "pre-uni" level? High School? Juniors? Where was the tournament?
And what's the reason you need me to be so specific?
eelhc
Hall of Fame
Where I play foot faults have become so commonplace that it's almost like the neighborhood rule in baseball double plays.
I think it's important to remind your opponent in any setting of foot faults. You don't have to take the point but I think eventually it helps them establish a service routing that doesn't result in a foot fault so they don't make the mistake when they play in a competitive match.
I think it's important to remind your opponent in any setting of foot faults. You don't have to take the point but I think eventually it helps them establish a service routing that doesn't result in a foot fault so they don't make the mistake when they play in a competitive match.
Bionic slice
Semi-Pro
i rarely see it being called, sometimes in doubles but most people are so focused on the serve, they don't watch the servers feet.....I'm looking for edge to get a return.
LuckyR
Legend
30 feet? It would have to be obvious from > 80 feet to be called. My take would be, if I know the guy, I would point it out as a courtesy as he is likely not aware of it, so he could work on correcting it for the next time he plays in a venue where it would be called.
Jim A
Professional
It would have to be so blatant to everyone involved and even then in most USTA matches/tournaments I believe we're supposed to give a warning. Then only on the most obvious of points.
Had someone give a warning to me at Mixed Districts, rightfully so, spent the rest of the match serving from about 2' behind the baseline. he called me again late in the match and I was still about 18" behind the baseline, claimed the point. In a mix of karma, his partner was called for a footfault/doublefault by the roving official that we asked for after the earlier call and ended the match..
We have a local guy that no one likes to play with and can't get on a team because all he worries about are footfaults and makes such a big deal over them, that it has nearly come punches.
Had someone give a warning to me at Mixed Districts, rightfully so, spent the rest of the match serving from about 2' behind the baseline. he called me again late in the match and I was still about 18" behind the baseline, claimed the point. In a mix of karma, his partner was called for a footfault/doublefault by the roving official that we asked for after the earlier call and ended the match..
We have a local guy that no one likes to play with and can't get on a team because all he worries about are footfaults and makes such a big deal over them, that it has nearly come punches.
HRB
Hall of Fame
I think it is pretty weird that foot faults seem to get a pass...mainly because it is a pretty simple thing to AVOID! What the hell is so hard about serving beyond the allowable boundaries? To me it's comical that someone would "struggle" with foot faults.
That being said, I'll only call blatant ones or I'll call them against D-Bags who call terrible lines, yet always foot fault.
That being said, I'll only call blatant ones or I'll call them against D-Bags who call terrible lines, yet always foot fault.
Turbo-87
G.O.A.T.
Seriously? Who would actually do that?
tennis tom
Legend
It's NOT hard at all--you just move a back a few inches--they just don't care--how they do something is how they do everything.
A Math Geek perhaps?
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
And you left out (unless the OP is 19 feet tall) 'through the net'.
You nailed it - this thread should be closed.
I'm a 'law and order, tennis is a game of sportsmanship' guy - but all this talk about foot faulting gets the cynic in me wondering if people are losing matches and looking for excuses.
If it should be closed then perhaps you shouldn't have replied?
Or it could also mean someone has been winning matches with blatant footfaults all this time and now trying to avoid the issue?
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
Nice logic fail. It's an ANONYMOUS board. And did you miss the 'law and order' part of my thread? I don't like cheaters (not a big Nadal fan) - but grow up and choose your battles. You're losing matches because you're not good enough. Drop down to another level.
Not me. At barely 5'9" I'm not going to serve my way to any 6" plastic trophies - I start 2" behind.
Mighty thin skinned. Lighten up, Francis. Maybe you should switch to bowling. Of course you might go John Goodman (from 'The Big Lebowski') 'mark it 0, Donnie!'
That's the exact phrase that cheaters always use.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
You sounded like you were open to differing opinions in your OP. But in reality.....
You sounded like you were open to differing opinions in your OP. But in reality.....
please read properly what I was referring to... If you are unable to keep up with the discussion please don't join in at all.
tennis tom
Legend
ProsPro, how long have you been coaching tennis, how many students do you have?
Timbo's hopeless slice
Hall of Fame
meh, it's rarely an issue in my experience, there's an odd guy who FFs huge, but not at a national level, where the umpires soon sort it out.
below that, who cares, really?
below that, who cares, really?
McLovin
Legend
Ha!
But, to follow up...I'm not sure why there is any more discussion past what I posted. The Code clearly states what you should do. You came here asking a question, and I gave you the definitive answer.
As it says at the beginning of The Code:
There is no gray area here. Unless an official is watching your match, you follow The Code. Period. End of story.The Code said:
And that is why West Coast Ace said this thread should be closed.
So to put it simply, you cannot call foot faults if there is no official?
McLovin
Legend
Not to sound argumentative, but did you read The Code, or even my post back on the 1st page? What it says is, and I'll quote it again with the same bolded part:
I think that's pretty clear and needs no further discussion. However, I will stress the word may. That doesn't mean you have to, only that you are allowed to.The Code said:
Most people I know won't bother unless there is a clear advantage to be gained by the foot fault.
Yes but in your earlier post you also mentioned this which I shall bold as well "Maybe after you might want to say something, but I'd just "play on" and keep my mouth shut during" which at the end of the day signals to me what I had just mentioned which is, you can't call for your opponent's foot fault if there is no official.
sjoerdklarenbeek
Rookie
I've played volleyball for years. A footfalt during serving, even if it's just a toe on the line, meant you lost the point. No discussion. We accepted that. The rules are clear.
The difference between volleyball and tennis: there is always a referee in volleyball and almost never in tennis (unless you're a pro). At least that's how it is in my area. So most of us are not fully aware of making foot faults because they don't get called, so we keep making them, and it has become very hard to point it out to someone.
On top of that, it's just very hard to see them if you're the opponent. Self officiating is fine when it comes to line calling, but since a foot fault is on the other side of the net, where the other guy makes all the other calls, it feels very invasive to call a foot fault.
My personal opinion is that a foot fault SHOULD be called, but usually CANNOT be called, because you just can't see them. I happen to have a team mate who makes a LOT of foot faults, so during competition play I am not really in the position to say something if one of the players of the other team does it. Or rather, it wouldn't be smart.
The practical thing to do is to mention it in a friendly way if you can clearly see that someone does it repetitively. During singles, I just can't tell. During doubles, I just don't pay attention to this. Maybe I should.
The difference between volleyball and tennis: there is always a referee in volleyball and almost never in tennis (unless you're a pro). At least that's how it is in my area. So most of us are not fully aware of making foot faults because they don't get called, so we keep making them, and it has become very hard to point it out to someone.
On top of that, it's just very hard to see them if you're the opponent. Self officiating is fine when it comes to line calling, but since a foot fault is on the other side of the net, where the other guy makes all the other calls, it feels very invasive to call a foot fault.
My personal opinion is that a foot fault SHOULD be called, but usually CANNOT be called, because you just can't see them. I happen to have a team mate who makes a LOT of foot faults, so during competition play I am not really in the position to say something if one of the players of the other team does it. Or rather, it wouldn't be smart.
The practical thing to do is to mention it in a friendly way if you can clearly see that someone does it repetitively. During singles, I just can't tell. During doubles, I just don't pay attention to this. Maybe I should.
beernutz
Hall of Fame
That is a great point about the difference between calling volleyball service faults and tennis foot faults. My daughter plays high school and club volleyball and like a lot of parents I've been asked to officiate the back line dozens of times over the years. Calling volleyball service faults is EASY since you have a great view of the line so even a portion of a toe touching the line will get the call and I've never had a player complain about a bad call.
In singles tennis, unless someone is flagrantly stepping not just on but over the line, foot faults are a difficult call to correctly make. There is a 4.0 player at my club whom I've played with and against many times who foot faults on 100% of his serves because he shuffles his front foot slightly and touches the line with his toe. Playing with or against him you would be hard pressed to notice the fault but when you are looking on from the side on his end of the court the foot faults are easily noticed.
tennis tom
Legend
The OP is either a troll or the most ******** certified tennis pro on the planet.
I was watching a TC program about the Legends weekend at Newks and Murphy Jensen said that all the 100 campers foot fault. He was exaggerating of course but it gives an idea how widespread the problem is and how even the former top players of the world have given up trying to address it at the rec level.
tennis tom
Legend
FF'ing is on the rise in western cultures due to moral relativism, it's very clear under shirea law, FF and you're stoned to death.
Sakkijarvi
Semi-Pro
One of my best tennis buds foot-faults every time. I occasionally fart. We overlook these things.
Yea, the code is pretty clear - warn first, and don't call it if the toes are just clipping the line.
I have warned and it usually isn't received well. But, it usually does result in an attempt to fix the FF.
I have not actually called one in years and would only call it if warning doesn't work and maybe if the foot is going completely over the line into the court before contact.
I have only done this in doubles as you can see it well if you are the receiver's partner. It would be very difficult to call in singles unless the guy is walking into the court before serving.
I do disagree with some that say it isn't a big deal. If a player hits a big serve or is serving and volleying, getting several inches into the court can make the difference in at least a few points per set. I try to not FF by using a platform stance without any foot movement forward until I start my swing forward to contact. I don't think I FF and if I do, it would have to by an inch or a fraction of an inch since the feet don't move much. So, I don't think it is bad form for me to expect the same from my opponents. I have played servers that flagrantly FF say by placing the entire foot into the court before serving and even they get upset if you warn them.
I have warned and it usually isn't received well. But, it usually does result in an attempt to fix the FF.
I have not actually called one in years and would only call it if warning doesn't work and maybe if the foot is going completely over the line into the court before contact.
I have only done this in doubles as you can see it well if you are the receiver's partner. It would be very difficult to call in singles unless the guy is walking into the court before serving.
I do disagree with some that say it isn't a big deal. If a player hits a big serve or is serving and volleying, getting several inches into the court can make the difference in at least a few points per set. I try to not FF by using a platform stance without any foot movement forward until I start my swing forward to contact. I don't think I FF and if I do, it would have to by an inch or a fraction of an inch since the feet don't move much. So, I don't think it is bad form for me to expect the same from my opponents. I have played servers that flagrantly FF say by placing the entire foot into the court before serving and even they get upset if you warn them.
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West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
Thanks. Glad someone got it.Ha!
But, to follow up...I'm not sure why there is any more discussion past what I posted. The Code clearly states what you should do. You came here asking a question, and I gave you the definitive answer.
As it says at the beginning of The Code:
There is no gray area here. Unless an official is watching your match, you follow The Code. Period. End of story.
And that is why West Coast Ace said this thread should be closed.
Feel bad for @ProsPro - life must be tough when you get that wound up and feeling victimized. I wish people would learn to serve properly before entering competition too. But the USTA isn't going to deploy snipers to eradicate the scourge of foot faulting. They have enough trouble filling 16 man draws in local events. And taking money to buy body bags would take money they'd rather spend on First Class seats and 5 star hotels. PMac don't fly Coach!
I have found that most players who foot fault, and get called on it, implode. So it can be a definite advantage to call them on it at any level.
I've seen that all the time. And in USTA leagues as well. When they get called on it, it is like you were clubbing a baby seal, and the righteous indignation fills the air. So I make to sure call them on it every time.
