Reference thread for Djokovic closing in on key stats and records

[swordtennis]

No grass GOAT loses 3-0 in wimbledon finals troll.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Losing to Del Potro at IW and then Haas at Miami didn't help matters either. 2013 was the only year between 2011 and 2016 that he failed so miserably at the Sunshine double, winning them both back to back in 2011, 2014, 2015 and 2016, plus reaching semis of IW and winning Miami in 2012. Novak simply wasn't reliable at that point, that began to bleed into the clay season, with those losses building up. The mental belief in him just wasn't there so many times.

The tennis gods really were shining down on Nadal in 2013.

 

[Hitman]

I agree that it's tough when you're an old man and see no one in sight that can stop Djokovic but yourself on a really good day. That has to be nerve racking.

Old man or not, he is out there playing. And honestly, he should have taken one of either USO 2015 or W 2019. That was just mental demons, the same as what he had against Nadal, when he lead matches he should have closed off slip, so it is not some new thing that started to creep into his game because he got old.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

GTFO troll. TROLL harder.

No, you shut up. Go do something useful, I'm sure you can.

 

[NoleFam]

Losing to Del Potro at IW and then Haas at Miami didn't help matters either. 2013 was the only year between 2011 and 2016 that he failed so miserably at the Sunshine double, winning them both back to back in 2011, 2014, 2015 and 2016, plus reaching semis of IW and winning Miami in 2012. Novak simply wasn't reliable at that point, that began to bleed into the clay season, with those losses building up. The mental belief in him just wasn't there so many times.

You're right. So many close matches from that year I am forgetting that he lost. I didn't see the Haas match but that was a terrible score. He got crushed so I guess he had an off day.

Yea I think it was a snowball effect. Bombed in the sunshine double and crashed and burned in some matches in the clay season that destroyed his confidence.

 

[PeoplesChamp]

What does this have to do with the stat though? I could say the majority of Federer's happened before Djokovic reached his peak but what would it matter? Federer is not the only top 5 or top 10 player and vice versa, and has a massive amount more wins than Djokovic. Djokovic just reigned over the top of the field more in a more concentrated amount of time.

Just look at the ridiculousness of 2015 when it comes to top 5 and top 10.

It's so over the top man.

I believe if it looks like a duck etc etc it must be a duck.

 

[Hitman]

The tennis gods really were shining down on Nadal in 2013.

Yeah, they certainly did.

 

[swordtennis]

I agree that it's tough when you're an old man and see no one in sight that can stop Djokovic but yourself on a really good day. That has to be nerve racking.

Fed needed to retire after wtf 2007. Also nadalovic are no roddick and hewitt. Put all those players fed bullied combined and you still would not get nadalovic. Styles make fights.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Yeah, they certainly did.

And it created the best comeback video ever eye of the tiger lol

 

[StrongRule]

Yes. Nadal is not the only person who can choke. Regardless if Nadal was in control and lost his edge does not change the fact that Djokovic was up 4-2 in the 5th and and should have been 5-3 if he did not shoot himself in the foot.

I said could qualify not does qualify. It was basically another close match with Nadal that year that he lost once again.

Only a troll can say Djokovic choked in RG 2013. Nadal was the one who was choking like crazy, but yes, even after that Djokovic wasn't able to win. He didn't do much wrong in the fifth set except touching the net (which was just an error, not a choke), Nadal took it from him by hitting like 22 winners in that set, a stat which you totally ignore. The fact that Djokovic fans cry about a match which he really should have lost in 4 sets only prove my statement that he never had any heartbreaking losses in his career. And by the way, you will laugh at anybody who will say Nadal choked in AO 2012 final, right? Even though it was a mirror match. Well, except for the fact that Djokovic wasn't up 2 breaks in the fourth set.

So in your opinion any loss to Nadal is a choke? In Montreal it was a close match and Nadal just dominated in the last tiebreak. No mental weaknesses from any of them, just a close match.

 

[NoleFam]

Just look at the ridiculousness of 2015 when it comes to top 5 and top 10.

It's so over the top man.

I believe if it looks like a duck etc etc it must be a duck.

Why? What's ridiculous about dominating and actually having to play top players to win basically all the big tournaments you won? That shows strength and that you deserve it.

 

[swordtennis]

Just look at the ridiculousness of 2015 when it comes to top 5 and top 10.

It's so over the top man.

I believe if it looks like a duck etc etc it must be a duck.

What only fedal fans believe this. If fed won those finals we would never hear a peep. Also if stan got to the uso final and thumped djokovic. Just stop.

 

[swordtennis]

Fedal fan gas lighting and projection has arrived on a djokovic thread. Like clock work!

 

[NoleFam]

Only a troll can say Djokovic choked in RG 2013. Nadal was the one who was choking like crazy, but yes, even after that Djokovic wasn't able to win. He didn't do much wrong in the fifth set except touching the net (which was just an error, not a choke), Nadal took it from him by hitting like 22 winners in that set, a stat which you totally ignore. The fact that Djokovic fans cry about a match which he really should have lost in 4 sets only prove my statement that he never had any heartbreaking losses in his career. And by the way, you will laugh at anybody who will say Nadal choked in AO 2012 final, right? Even though it was a mirror match. Well, except for the fact that Djokovic wasn't up 2 breaks in the fourth set.

So in your opinion any loss to Nadal is a choke? In Montreal it was a close match and Nadal just dominated in the last tiebreak. No mental weaknesses from any of them, just a close match.

Ok I tried but I just can't do it today....

 

[Hitman]

You're right. So many close matches from that year I am forgetting that he lost. I didn't see the Haas match but that was a terrible score. He got crushed so I guess he had an off day.

Yea I think it was a snowball effect. Bombed in the sunshine double and crashed and burned in some matches in the clay season that destroyed his confidence.

Yep, it started really early for him. When he started losing early at his favorite stomping grounds, it was only going to snowball from there, especially entering the clay season. The familiarity of winning wasn't there as much, and the taste of some losses he shouldn't have had were, and those linger for a while. Sure he was playing decent still, that is a testament to his natural talent, but that head became more and more unreliable and this was the start of that dry period where he was going to go five slams without winning a title.

 

[swordtennis]

No fannage will ever persuade me that hypothetical matches are more valid than actual matches.

 

[Hitman]

And it created the best comeback video ever eye of the tiger lol

The King of Kings, no doubt.

 

[Sport]

Only a troll can say Djokovic choked in RG 2013. Nadal was the one who was choking like crazy, but yes, even after that Djokovic wasn't able to win. He didn't do much wrong in the fifth set except touching the net (which was just an error, not a choke), Nadal took it from him by hitting like 22 winners in that set, a stat which you totally ignore. The fact that Djokovic fans cry about a match which he really should have lost in 4 sets only prove my statement that he never had any heartbreaking losses in his career. And by the way, you will laugh at anybody who will say Nadal choked in AO 2012 final, right? Even though it was a mirror match. Well, except for the fact that Djokovic wasn't up 2 breaks in the fourth set.

So in your opinion any loss to Nadal is a choke? In Montreal it was a close match and Nadal just dominated in the last tiebreak. No mental weaknesses from any of them, just a close match.

I agree that saying "Djokovic choked the RG 2013 SF" is like saying "Nadal choked the AO 2012 final". It is even worse, because if I recall correctly Djokovic was not serving for the match in the fourth set and 2 points away from winning in 4. Nadal was serving 5-4 in the fourth set and 30-15 with his service game, he was 2 points away from winning in 4.

 

[PeoplesChamp]

Old man or not, he is out there playing. And honestly, he should have taken one of either USO 2015 or W 2019. That was just mental demons, the same as what he had against Nadal, when he lead matches he should have closed off slip, so it is not some new thing that started to creep into his game because he got old.

Yeah he should have won Wimbledon. We all know that. Seriously what happened with Nadal early on was a different mental lapse. It wasn't the same with Djokovic. Federer wasn't worried for extended periods about Nadal taking HC & grass away. Sooner or later Nadal would screw it up because he's inconsistent off clay. Djokovic is very consistent and there was no one to stop him and Federer knew Murray wasn't and Stan could only do so much. Lot of pressure there when there's no one else for years on end for an aging great trying to hold his ground.

 

[Sport]

Ok I tried but I just can't do it today....

When a person has no answer, he simply puts a GIF. You are losing the debate, you can't reply to him with an educated and well-reasoned argument.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

I agree that saying "Djokovic choked the RG 2013 SF" is like saying "Nadal choked the AO 2012 final". It is even worse, because if I recall correctly Djokovic was not serving for the match in the fourth set and 2 points away from winning in 4. Nadal was serving 5-4 in the fourth set and 30-15 with his service game, he was 2 points away from winning in 4.

Djokovic was *5-3 in the tiebreak though. He was one service point away from triple MP (two on Nadal's serve then one on Djokovic's serve). Nadal was one service point away from double MP on his serve. Seems roughly equal.

 

[StrongRule]

I agree that saying "Djokovic choked the RG 2013 SF" is like saying "Nadal choked the AO 2012 final". It is even worse, because if I recall correctly Djokovic was not serving for the match in the fourth set and 2 points away from winning in 4. Nadal was serving 5-4 in the fourth set and 30-15 with his service game, he was 2 points away from winning in 4.

Well, yeah. As I see, Djokovic fans are now at their favorite topic-how terrible he was in 2013, a year in which he won 7 titles, including a slam, 3 masters and WTF. But he lost a few matches to Nadal, hence he was absolutely terrible. They also mention him losing a few times for a change, like to Del Potro and Haas in IW and Miami. But when Nadal loses to Fognini and Tsitsipas on clay they write it is peak Nadal.

 

[Sport]

Djokovic was *5-3 in the tiebreak though. He was one service point away from triple MP (two on Nadal's serve then one on Djokovic's serve). Nadal was one service point away from double MP on his serve. Seems roughly equal.

OK, roughly equal seems fine to me.

 

[PeoplesChamp]

Why? What's ridiculous about dominating and actually having to play top players to win basically all the big tournaments you won? That shows strength and that you deserve it.

How many times he beat Berdych lol. It was just top heavy weak as a kitten competition dude. Old Federer, pigeon Murray, and Stan when he occasionally caught fire.

 

[NoleFam]

Yep, it started really early for him. When he started losing early at his favorite stomping grounds, it was only going to snowball from there, especially entering the clay season. The familiarity of winning wasn't there as much, and the taste of some losses he shouldn't have had were, and those linger for a while. Sure he was playing decent still, that is a testament to his natural talent, but that head became more and more unreliable and this was the start of that dry period where he was going to go five slams without winning a title.

Yea this was a crossroads in his career really and 2013 was somewhat the beginning of a dry period where he would struggle mentally. You could argue 2012 as well but he really just got outplayed in big matches in 2012, not so much mental related. And finished the year #1. In 2013 and 2014, there were a lot missed opportunities.

 

[Hitman]

Yeah he should have won Wimbledon. We all know that. Seriously what happened with Nadal early on was a different mental lapse. It wasn't the same with Djokovic. Federer wasn't worried for extended periods about Nadal taking HC & grass away. Sooner or later Nadal would screw it up because he's inconsistent off clay. Djokovic is very consistent and there was no one to stop him and Federer knew Murray wasn't and Stan could only do so much. Lot of pressure there when there's no one else for years on end for an aging great trying to hold his ground.

I know Djokovic is a completely different and quite possibly a bigger threat to Federer than Nadal due to the way Djokovic is putting up those numbers. As for the Wimbledon loss, Federer made the same mistake he made at USO 2011, by serving into the Djokovic forehand too much. Novak didn't need to move towards his backhand side. Yes, Federer hit the net on the first serve at 40-15, but then just went both times into the forehand and got burned. That is just a tactical mess up IMO, and had nothing to do with his age.

 

[NoleFam]

How many times he beat Berdych lol. It was just top heavy weak as a kitten competition dude. Old Federer, pigeon Murray, and Stan when he occasionally caught fire.

But 2006 was sooo much better right? He beat everybody in the top 5 and top 10 multiple times, not just Berdych. He doesn't get penalized for being so good that he's head and shoulders above everyone else. You sure aren't penalizing Federer for it.

 

[NoleFam]

I know Djokovic is a completely different and quite possibly a bigger threat to Federer than Nadal due to the way Djokovic is putting up those numbers. As for the Wimbledon loss, Federer made the same mistake he made at USO 2011, by serving into the Djokovic forehand too much. Novak didn't need to move towards his backhand side. Yes, Federer hit the net on the first serve at 40-15, but then just went both times into the forehand and got burned. That is just a tactical mess up IMO, and had nothing to do with his age.

It's what paid him dividends early in Djokovic's career so it's like engrained in him at this point where he will serve to Djokovic's forehand on a huge point wanting to draw the error and the error never came. Kind of like Nadal going to Federer's backhand now looking for loose balls and shanks, and they are far and few in between. Federer would have done better to go to Djokovic's backhand because his forehand has been rock solid on huge points in the last 10 years.

 

[Hitman]

Yea this was a crossroads in his career really and 2013 was somewhat the beginning of a dry period where he would struggle mentally. You could argue 2012 as well but he really just got outplayed in big matches in 2012, not so much mental related. And finished the year #1. In 2013 and 2014, there were a lot missed opportunities.

2012 was a little different, Nadal, Federer and Murray, along with him of course we all playing so well. Everyone was beating everyone that year, though we didn't get to see Nadal take on Lendlized Murray in 2012 or 2013 for that matter. Novak finished strong in 2012, but it all started to change when we headed into the sunshine double, Novak was losing matches not because the other was playing just too good for him for that day, but because mentally he was starting to waver. Now, that can be, and I was talking about it back then, be attributed to being on top for back to back seasons, the competition was insanely brutal in 2011 and 2012, it had to have taken a little out of him...a drop in mental intensity was starting to show. And when that begins to happen more and more, you begin to doubt yourself in the tightest moments, no matter who you are and in a game where there are numerous alpha predators like Nadal, Federer, Murray and others roaming around at that time, you would be made to pay dearly.

 

[PeoplesChamp]

I know Djokovic is a completely different and quite possibly a bigger threat to Federer than Nadal due to the way Djokovic is putting up those numbers. As for the Wimbledon loss, Federer made the same mistake he made at USO 2011, by serving into the Djokovic forehand too much. Novak didn't need to move towards his backhand side. Yes, Federer hit the net on the first serve at 40-15, but then just went both times into the forehand and got burned. That is just a tactical mess up IMO, and had nothing to do with his age.

I didn't blame his age for Wimbledon loss. I said he should have won it. I was speaking in general over a period of time/years. Not about a bad decision in one match where he had no business being in the first place really. You don't think being old af trying to protect your records with NO help can't mess with your mind? It always seems to be about some pissing contest with every Djokovic fan around here about mental strength. I guess because deep down you all know he's not as good of a tennis player, so it always goes back to that.

 

[NoleFam]

When a person has no answer, he simply puts a GIF. You are losing the debate, you can't reply to him with an educated and well-reasoned argument.

Am I losing the debate or do I just choose not to engage any further? It is pointless at times, sorry.

 

[NoleFam]

2012 was a little different, Nadal, Federer and Murray, along with him of course we all playing so well. Everyone was beating everyone that year, though we didn't get to see Nadal take on Lendlized Murray in 2012 or 2013 for that matter. Novak finished strong in 2012, but it all started to change when we headed into the sunshine double, Novak was losing matches not because the other was playing just too good for him for that day, but because mentally he was starting to waver. Now, that can be, and I was talking about it back then, be attributed to being on top for back to back seasons, the competition was insanely brutal in 2011 and 2012, it had to have taken a little out of him...a drop in mental intensity was starting to show. And when that begins to happen more and more, you begin to doubt yourself in the tightest moments, no matter who you are and in a game where there are numerous alpha predators like Nadal, Federer, Murray and others roaming around at that time, you would be made to pay dearly.

Will respond to this later...about to drive home now.

 

[Hitman]

It's what paid him dividends early in Djokovic's career so it's like engrained in him at this point where he will serve to Djokovic's forehand on a huge point wanting to draw the error and the error never came. Kind of like Nadal going to Federer's backhand now looking for loose balls and shanks, and they are far and few in between. Federer would have done better to go to Djokovic's backhand because his forehand has been rock solid on huge points in the last 10 years.

That unfortunately is the problem, if you keep playing the patterns over and over, you will eventually get caught. Federer served out wide to Djokovic's forehand in USO 2011, Novak was sitting there waiting for that ball, he knew full well that Federer wasn't going to go down the middle. The ball came straight into his strike zone, he didn't even need to move for it and it flying past Federer. Fast forward W 2019, and Federer again, goes into Novak's forehand twice, granted the first one was a second serve, nonetheless, Novak is able to make two comfortable returns. Seriously, that second one at 40-30, what was Federer thinking going to the forehand there, Novak was right there waiting for it, had he actually changed it up and forced the question who knows what could have happened.

 

[PeoplesChamp]

But 2006 was sooo much better right? He beat everybody in the top 5 and top 10 multiple times, not just Berdych. He doesn't get penalized for being so good that he's head and shoulders above everyone else. You sure aren't penalizing Federer for it.

I remember Federer slapping winners all over the place taking everyone's breath away. With Djokovic I remember a million stretch shots and 40 shot rallies that put me to sleep.

 

[Hitman]

I didn't blame his age for Wimbledon loss. I said he should have won it. I was speaking in general over a period of time/years. Not about a bad decision in one match where he had no business being in the first place really. You don't think being old af trying to protect your records with NO help can't mess with your mind? It always seems to be about some pissing contest with every Djokovic fan around here about mental strength. I guess because deep down you all know he's not as good of a tennis player, so it always goes back to that.

I am not saying it doesn't, but he had it on his racket to possibly end Djokovic's run, the gap would have been to six, with Novak needing seven to pass him. Yes, lets give credit to Federer to keep playing because he actually is still that good, but what cost him a solid chance to close this race down was a massive mistake from his side, not his age.

 

[Sport]

Am I losing the debate or do I just choose not to engage any further? It is pointless at times, sorry.

He made interesting points like:

1. Why is the RG 2013 SF supposedly a choke but not the AO 2012 final when both matches had a similar score and situation in the 5th set?

2. Why do you insist in considering all/most close matches where Nadal defeats Novak a choke from Djokovic's perspecitve?

His points were logical and fair. Your answer was an evasion, and a sign of losing the debate. He who can't reply with a well-reasoned argument, chooses to employ distracting tactics, such as simply putting a GIF.

 

[PeoplesChamp]

I am not saying it doesn't, but he had it on his racket to possibly end Djokovic's run, the gap would have been to six, with Novak needing seven to pass him. Yes, lets give credit to Federer to keep playing because he actually is still that good, but what cost him a solid chance to close this race down was a massive mistake from his side, not his age.

Alright I agree he blew 2019 Wimbledon. I've never denied that. It's about more than just one slam though. We've been in a weak era for quite a while.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Alright I agree he blew 2019 Wimbledon. I've never denied that. It's about more than just one slam though. We've been in a weak era for quite a while.

It started in 2015

 

[Hitman]

Alright I agree he blew 2019 Wimbledon. I've never denied that. It's about more than just one slam though. We've been in a weak era for quite a while.

OK, what to you personally was the strong era?

 

[TheAssassin]

I remember Federer slapping winners all over the place taking everyone's breath away. With Djokovic I remember a million stretch shots and 40 shot rallies that put me to sleep.

If stretch shots and 40 shot rallies put you to sleep, how come you claim to remember so many of them?

Whether you enjoy his tennis or not doesn't change the fact that Djokovic has been a dominant figure in a similar way Federer used to be, which reflects in their comparable numbers in top 10 wins, reign as number 1, the Slams...

 

[swordtennis]

Nothing evasive about his posts. What is illogical is that every fedal loss against djokovic is due to age, injury, choke, not peak, etc you fill in the blanks. This thread is about djokovics strengths not fedals weaknesses.

 

[Hitman]

Nothing evasive about his posts. What is illogical is that every fedal loss against djokovic is due to age, injury, choke, not peak, etc you fill in the blanks. This thread is about djokovics strengths not fedals weaknesses.

I thought it was the usual Djokovic v Fedal stuff.

 

[PeoplesChamp]

OK, what to you personally was the strong era?

I feel like 07-12, 13-14 were ok too.

Not to change the subject, but I'm replying slow because I got $80 bucks in counterfeit 20's handed to me at the store and I'm filing a police report. I need my 80 bucks lol.

 

[DSH]

One tough opponent doesn't make a tough draw

How tough is the draw if you get to play Youzhny, Gasquet, and Berrettini in the semis?

And how difficult can your draw be if you play against a tired Nishikori, against two players with no experience in this instance such as Pouille and Bautista Agut and when you face a guy of more than 38 years and zero mobility in semifinals of several gs?

 

[PeoplesChamp]

If stretch shots and 40 shot rallies put you to sleep, how come you claim to remember so many of them?

Whether you enjoy his tennis or not doesn't change the fact that Djokovic has been a dominant figure in a similar way Federer used to be, which reflects in their comparable numbers in top 10 wins, reign as number 1, the Slams...

I remember them so well because I like watching Djokovic matches in case he loses and Federer doesn't have to play him lol. No, really I get into some of his matches and appreciate his skills. I just prefer Fed's style and the more all court approach.

 

[Hitman]

I feel like 07-12, 13-14 were ok too.

Not to change the subject, but I'm replying slow because I got $80 bucks in counterfeit 20's handed to me at the store and I'm filing a police report. I need my 80 bucks lol.

We'll leave the convo here then.

 

[beard]

It's quite comical how far behind is Nadal with top 5 and 10 wins. Maybe there is something in all the cake draws claims, we here so often on these boards...

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

He is not behind Federer at all, you should have in mind he is younger and played less... let's see percentages...

Fed won 18.04% of his overall wins against top 10 players...
Nadal won 17.36% of his overall wins against top 10...

Fed won 8.37% of his overall wins against top 5 players...
Nadal won 8.63% of his overall wins against top 5 players...

So they are basically the same...


Novak, on the other hand, had toughest task, off course. He won unbelievable 23.15% of his won matches against top 10 (210\907), and 11.14% against top 5 (101\907)...

 

[KINGROGER]

Just did math.

53% top 5 wins after Fed turned 31.5 years old.
59% top 10 wins after Fed turned 31.5 years old.

A grand total of 3 months #1 before Fed turned 30 years old.

Not to mention he’s 32 years old going on 33. Not quite as impressive inflating your stats vs non existent comp as it is going 237 weeks in a row during your peak.

 

[Djokovic2011]

I feel like 07-12, 13-14 were ok too.

Not to change the subject, but I'm replying slow because I got $80 bucks in counterfeit 20's handed to me at the store and I'm filing a police report. I need my 80 bucks lol.

The store assistant must've somehow known you were dissing Djokovic at the time and decided to punish you.

Seriously though, I hope you got it sorted out.

 

[KINGROGER]

No grass GOAT loses 3-0 in wimbledon finals troll.

He’s 8-4