beard
Legend
And 0:3 against only real competition... the player who run over grass as Bambi over ice...
Yeah, and cant serve out at 40:15....
Reference thread for Djokovic closing in on key stats and records
- Thread starter NoleFam
- Start date
Yeah, and cant serve out at 40:15....
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Nishikori, Pouille, and RBA were not tough SF opponents for DjokovicAnd how difficult can your draw be if you play against a tired Nishikori, against two players with no experience in this instance such as Pouille and Bautista Agut and when you face a guy of more than 38 years and zero mobility in semifinals of several gs?
Isn't the 38 yo guy with no mobility unbeaten against Nadal off the clay for the past few years?
he dominated his main rivals Roddick and nadal, losing 1 finalAnd 0:3 against only real competition... the player who run over grass as Bambi over ice...
Yeah, and cant serve out at 40:15....
Djokovic lost the only time he faced half decent opponents (see 2012-2013) since then he’s beat grandpa Fed who has no baseline game and Anderson LOL.
vex
Legend
Crazy that he’s only 30 weeks away. That came up fast.I created a fun thread a few weeks ago for Djokovic's fans about Djokovic's staggering 15 straight top 5 wins at AO and it got deleted for no apparent reason after a day or two.
Top 5 wins leaders
1. Federer 104
2. Djokovic 101
3. Lendl 94
4. Nadal 85
5. Becker 68
Top 10 wins leaders
1. Federer 223
2. Djokovic 210
3. Nadal 171
4. Lendl 162
5. Connors 138
Weeks at #1
1. Federer 310
2. Sampras 286
3. Djokovic 279
4. Lendl 270
5. Connors 268
Djokovic could surpass all these by the years end but he is closest to the top 5 record. Weeks at #1 is a bit farther away but he has a chance to pass this as well.
vex
Legend
Lol cmon man, eat a snickers, that’s a clown take
vex
Legend
Phenomenal commentSomeone please hurry up and find the book of Amun Ra
clout
Hall of Fame
Every professional tennis player has mastered tennis (they’re better than 99.9% of the population at it)
beard
Legend
Federer was in finals, against Djokovic, barely losing sets till finals, won 2017 Wimbledon, without losing set, in Djokovic's absence, off course... Federer was goood at grass, everyone knows that, but... 0:3....40:15...
vex
Legend
So 2014/15 Fed was just trash I guess? The win over a grass rejuvenated Nadal a year ago? Worthless? Hell I bet I could go back to those 14/15 threads and find pre-match comments by you about how phenomenal Fed was playing going into the match and how he’d win in 4.
more importantly: His competition doesnt matter. Only his own personal form. He wouldhave beat any version of Murray instead of Fed in14/15/18/19.
Last edited:
Spencer Gore
Legend
"Aside from Djokovic". How can anyone who knows anything about tennis write such drivel? Embarrassing stuff.
2017 was peak neo BH Fed. He was old mental midget in 2014/2015/2019
beard
Legend
Can't you see what you write is nonsence?
He is mental midget in Wimbledon finals just against Novak... Novak is that good and Federer loses him self playing against him...
Neo bh? You gorget new racquet... It works only in absence of Novak, apparently... Fed won only 3 slams after 2012... none over Novak, its his winning formula, not some neo bs.... Stop making clown of your self, please...
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Yea 2012 was very competitive across the board so those losses made more sense than the ones in 2013. I would say it carried over into 2014 and yea I do believe the mental aspect of it definitely started getting to him. He really was struggling to close out tight matches in those two years.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Right. Novak knows he is going to the forehand on big points so he is ready for it. I don't even know Federer realizes he does this about 75% of the time on those match points but it's a pattern and Djokovic is reading where he is going like a book. Had he switched it up at Wimbledon, he may have actually surprised Djokovic and got a weaker return and easy putaway so it was a real tactical error.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
It took until Wimbledon 2014 for him to right that ship. That was his do or die moment, and he came through that acid test like a a champion. The tennis landscape would never be the same after that.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
If someone can't enjoy what Djokovic was doing in 2011 and 2015-16 then I'm not sure they are really fans of tennis. You cannot play the game better than that. Yes Federer has the aesthetic appeal but Djokovic played the game with such ruthless technical efficiency that it took everyone aback and former players, coaches and pundits all marveled at the way he was playing. Some people are just fans of players, not the game itself.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
It is not only perplexing that Federer didn't catch on, but that his entire team, who would have been doing their homework didn't catch onto this also. Djokovic is leaning towards his forehand side on these MPs a lot more than normal. He is reading Fed's play like an open book. And I do agree that had Fed gone into the stronger, but unsuspecting side of Novak, he could have extracted an error, due to Novak's weight leaning onto his right foot more, or he could have got an easier put away. Massive tactical miscalculation from his entire team.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
It's the US Open, not the Djokovic Open. Presumably, you need to beat seven opponents to win this title, not six walking corpses and one good opponent.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
But I think it all goes back to Federer used to just letting in flow in matches and improvising rather than relying on a gameplan and it seems when he gets tight or unsure, he goes back to that way of playing and abandons his strategy. I wonder if he even realizes he served not once but twice to Djokovic's forehand when he had match points in that Wimbledon final.
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
One big difference between those first two years was that, by 2013, Djokovic was fit enough, confident enough, and mentally strong enough that it was possible for him to play that long five-set semi-final and still be a real threat in the final. As a result, it's that year when he really let himself down in set 4. In 2010, he just ran out of gas physically. In 2013, he mostly lost it mentally after letting set three slip away.
Also, Kohlschreiber in round 4 of the 2013 US Open did give Nadal a decent test. Certainly far tougher than anyone he played in 2010 other than Djokovic. Not that Kohlschreiber is a world beater, of course, but by the standards of a round 4 opponent for a top seed, he put in a decent performance.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Maybe it is a bit of flow, but he is serving intelligently for the majority of the time, picking his spots a lot better, mixing it up which was why Djokovic struggled to break him. I just find it strange that all of a sudden he stops thinking as astutely and loses both points purely because he starts to improvise at that point. Federer likes to serve out wide on the deuce side, this is something the commentator often talk about, so for me, I think he went to his favorite play instead of what play he should have gone to. One of the best tactics they should be looking at it is making sure they keep Djokovic honest on MPs, they failed to do it. So I do agree with your point to a degree, he goes to his bread and butter, but his team should be looking at what is going wrong on these MPs also. It was basically the same mistake all over again.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Almost 3/5 of Djokovic's top 5 wins came in those years.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
It certainly was history repeating itself but I found it weird that he put every ball into Djokovic's forehand on those points.
* I just went and looked and he tried to serve down the middle on 40-15 on the 1st serve but missed and decided to got out wide on the second. Bad decision since Djokovic was waiting for it and hammered a return down the middle that Federer tried to run a round and hit a forehand and got jammed. Then he served down the middle to Djokovic's forehand and hits an approach shot and comes in on Djokovic's forehand. Another bad decision since the ball wasn't that deep and Djokovic can hit that short forehand crosscourt like that in his sleep. Too key tactical errors that most likely cost him the title.
if you want to see how peak Nole would do vs peak Fed see their 2012 match except it would be in straight sets
yes Fed had 1peak year with the new Racket in 2017 then sadly declined again. He was old and weak opponent in 14/15/19
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
So Federer had one peak year when peak Djokovic was nowhere to be found? How convenient and why does only the 2012 Wimbledon match show how peak Federer versus peak Djokovic would go? Clearly that Djokovic at Wimbledon was not on the level of 2015 or even 2011 so isn't this a false narrative?
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Bingo. I think one of the reason why he did it was, in his mind he was going into the weaker side of Djokovic. That backhand is the more deadlier side, so a part of him was thinking that if he goes there, Novak will burn him, but if he goes into the slightly weaker wing he might extract the error or weaker response. The problem for Fed was is that he telegraphed that move to Novak, Novak already knew, like an expert chess player what Federer's move was going to be.
If you see on all these points, Novak hardly has to move to make those returns. His body is leaning in the correct direction, Federer and his team didn't understand the ideal tactic here would have to go against the grain what he did before. I am surprised that someone as eagle eyed as Fed also couldn't see the court positioning of Novak. And yes, we know how incredible Djokovic was on that cross court pass, again, Federer hoping to extract an error instead trying to take the racket out of his opponent's hands. At this elite level, just the slightest slip and the opponent who is as skilled as Novak will make you pay dearly for it.
Last edited:
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
True, plus I would be more scared of Djokovic's forehand than his backhand. As good as his backhand is, it is not as lethal as it was in 2011 in my opinion, and he also makes more mistakes on it these days. The forehand goes into overdrive on big points so he should have switched up his strategy.
Yea he should have served out wide on the 1st serve at 40-30. I mean if you miss oh well but go for it, and then go there again on the second hopefully opening up the court and try to hit an inside in forehand winner. Instead he ended up playing right into Djokovic's hands who reset the match right there and and his prospects of getting the title.
CYGS
Legend
Well he didn't have the chance to sweep the field and accumulate 237 weeks in a row, only possible to do in the weakest era of all time during 2003-2007.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
You are correct, but we have is a case here is playing the legend and not the man before you. The legend of Djokovic's backhand, played a massive part. The man that stood before Federer actually is more dangerous on his forehand wing in such situations, but sometimes your mind can play tricks on you. I have to give props to Nadal here a little, on key points against Djokovic a lot of the time, he would serve into the body, and not even take the chance with any wing. Yes, it prevents the ace, but it also meant Novak couldn't put his incredible magic on the ball and return it exactly where he wanted it to go. Not saying Federer didn't serve well throughout the match, he did, but that key moment, anything other than serving continuously into the forehand would have given him a better chance...Of course Novak may still have found a way, but it wouldn't have been as easy, as leaning into your right leg and waiting for the ball to come to you.
CYGS
Legend
And 1:1 against Dirt Court Specialist.And 0:3 against only real competition... the player who run over grass as Bambi over ice...
Yeah, and cant serve out at 40:15....
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Federer is 2-1 against Nadal in W finals. Djokovic is the only player who does not have a negative or even result against Fed in W finals.
CYGS
Legend
That's not impressive, given Fed's record vs. Nadal at RG.
2012 Djokovic was the best ever version there but Fed with his old racket was too good.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Not saying it is impressive, just correcting the numbers. Only Novak has a winning H2H against him in W finals.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Djokovic's best version on grass was 2015, not 2012.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
I agree about Nadal using the body serve which is really a great tactic and far too underutilized in my opinion. It handcuffs opponents and removes giving them an angle.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Used it to almost perfection in their W 2018 classic.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
He did which is why I think Djokovic was not able to return as well as he'd have liked in that match.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
This is one of Nadal's key tactics against Djokovic in recent matches on critical points.
swordtennis
G.O.A.T.
I am going to take the high road and apologize for being mean about Fed.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Where are the stats for victories over the top 10 and top 5 in Grand Slam titles of the Big 3? I think stats of Slams are more relevant than some general stats mixed with Masters 1000 and ATP 500 matches.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic's losses and unexpected results are also continously justified with injuries, tired, choke, not peak, etc. All fanbases put arguments to justify losses or unexpected results.
Anyhow, you are changing the topic. If he doesn't reply those two points @StrongRule adressed previoulsy, he is avoiding him.
1 Why is supposedly the RG 2013 SF a choke but the AO 2012 isn't when both matches had a similar score and similar 5th set?
2. Why all/most close matches that Nadal wins over Djokovic are a supposedly a choke from the Serbian?
Last edited:
swordtennis
G.O.A.T.
Of course there are externalities at play. The way i look at these things is things usually balance out and occur for a reason. Djokovic prob should have converted another uso or two. Who knows if he won the FO earlier he might have lost some motivation. Players win and lose.
Running into the net however was imbecilic and clumsy.
All these players have blown it. Nadal prob has choked the least of the 3.
Fiero425
Legend
The way I see it, success begets success, but energy and emotions are lost over a period of time! It was esp. grinding on Nole who not only was winning just about everything, he was making finals! It's called burnout and it's happened to all of the "Big 3" in degrees! You don't take notice of Rafa since he's always been broken down because he works too hard! He's taken so many vacations, it's hard to think of them as recover time for injuries! With Nole it was a more pronounced "down period" because of his momentous success starting in 2011! It was obvious in 2012-14 there was a lull which resulted in him winning only 1 major those seasons! The following year in '15 he was back to normal, took 3 majors, and finished it off with the YEC! No one will ever have such a season again in my lifetime; records in match wins, $$, ATP points, & stature! He became immortal IMO! The only thing that thrilled me more was his return to form after period of malaise in 2017-early '18! Picking it back up with 3 straight majors put him back on track and in the running to be THE GOAT! It "was" Federer, but he's fallen flat with 2 players overtaking him! Then it was proclaimed to be up to Rafa since he owned Roger! Now, even before he takes the record, most people think Djokovic will probably own the moniker! We can only hope!
Last edited:
Fiero425
Legend
It helped that Fed's major pigeon was his only real rival back then; A-Rod! Roddick wasn't that great, but prob. would've or should've won more than that USO!
He had an even weaker era from 2015- present (5 years and counting)
He’s lucky to be playing in the weakest grass era ever too or he would have 0-1 Wimbledon titles.
CYGS
Legend
No, 2003-2007 is the weakest. That makes Cow's first 12 slams and 237 weeks possible.
