Remember when Fed was called grandpa when he was 10 years younger than Djokovic is now?

Actually more like 9 years younger (would turn 30 in 2 months) but I get your point.

Goes to show that the perception was different back then and players weren’t expected to still play well past their early 30’s.

Your thread is just revisionism.
 
Actually more like 9 years younger (would turn 30 in 2 months) but I get your point.

Goes to show that the perception was different back then and players weren’t expected to still play well past their early 30’s.

Your thread is just revisionism.
It wasn't expected of mid-level players but also it's not totally a surprise for extraordinary players as well. Agassi won AO at 32, was ranked No.1 at 33, made USO finals at 35. We had Connors making semis at Wimby/USO and being top 10 at 35/36 in the 80s. Same with Rosewall.

It was mostly excuses from fans who had grown to expect him to sweep everything but then Djokodal happened and the aura was coming off week by week, so they had to come up with something to justify the drop-off from 2004-07 level of results.
 
It wasn't expected of mid-level players but also it's not totally a surprise for extraordinary players as well. Agassi won AO at 32, was ranked No.1 at 33, made USO finals at 35. We had Connors making semis at Wimby/USO and being top 10 at 35/36 in the 80s. Same with Rosewall.
That doesn’t mean that people knew 15 years in advance that Djoko would still be playing in 2026.
It was mostly excuses from fans who had grown to expect him to sweep everything but then Djokodal happened and the aura was coming off week by week, so they had to come up with something to justify the drop-off from 2004-07 level of results.
His results started dropping before Djokovic rose in 2011. Pinning it only on Djokodal is typical detractor behavior.
 
Both longevity kings, age per age Fed > Djoko at 37, Nole >= Fed at 38, Nole > Fed at 39 as Fed was injured.
Easier to measure by season than exact age I suppose. A pretty obvious comparison this: Djoe 07-08 > Fred 01-02, Fred 03-07 > Djoe 09-13, Djoe 14-16 > Fred 08-10, Fred 11-12 > Djoe 17-18, Djoe 19-23 > Fred 13-17 (not nearly as much as it looks by slam count of course), Fred 18-19 > Djoe 24-25, Djoe 26-onwards > Fred 20-onwards by default.
 
Easier to measure by season than exact age I suppose. A pretty obvious comparison this: Djoe 07-08 > Fred 01-02, Fred 03-07 > Djoe 09-13, Djoe 14-16 > Fred 08-10, Fred 11-12 > Djoe 17-18, Djoe 19-23 > Fred 13-17 (not nearly as much as it looks by slam count of course), Fred 18-19 > Djoe 24-25, Djoe 26-onwards > Fred 20-onwards by default.
I wanted to compare using age instead of season to have it more fair I guess (especially for the 37+ yo seasons). Fed in his early to mid 30s was close to Djoko level IMO, with easier comp like Djoko he would have won more surely, even though we cannot forget the clay season skip of the Swiss which kinda muddies the argument for him IMO. Overall I agree on everything.
Fed 20-onwards not only due to COVID but especially due to injuries, unfortunately being fit is part of the sport...
 
For the first time in Wimbledon history, 3 players aged 35 and over made the 4th round(and 2 made the QFs). Thought that stat was pretty amazing since early Open Era had Pancho, Rosewall and many really old guys doing well.

There were many Wimbledons in the 90s and 2000s where there wasn't even one person in the draw that old.
 
If you look at year end top 100 on the ATP site from 2003 to 2013 you see a big increase in over 30 players in that span. Obviously sports medicine etc is a big factor in this.
Yeah, I think Roger's gen was the first one to really exploit the scientific progress to greatly extend their careers. I think of Federer, Verdasco, Lopez, Ferrer. Maybe it already started with Agassi even.
 
Yeah, I think Roger's gen was the first one to really exploit the scientific progress to greatly extend their careers. I think of Federer, Verdasco, Lopez, Ferrer. Maybe it already started with Agassi even.
I think Agassi was just a freak of nature(the guy never stretched in his life, how is that possible). and of course his ball striking made it a bit easier to compete as he aged.
 
I wanted to compare using age instead of season to have it more fair I guess (especially for the 37+ yo seasons). Fed in his early to mid 30s was close to Djoko level IMO, with easier comp like Djoko he would have won more surely, even though we cannot forget the clay season skip of the Swiss which kinda muddies the argument for him IMO. Overall I agree on everything.
Fed 20-onwards not only due to COVID but especially due to injuries, unfortunately being fit is part of the sport...
Clay performance is what gives Oldovic the nod over Oldеrer, on hard+grass it's quite close by level. Djokovic has now clearly won the longevity battle though as he rose to the top younger and stayed in it older, making slam semifinals at 20 and 39 alike is quite panchovian.
 
Clay performance is what gives Oldovic the nod over Oldеrer, on hard+grass it's quite close by level. Djokovic has now clearly won the longevity battle though as he rose to the top younger and stayed in it older, making slam semifinals at 20 and 39 alike is quite panchovian.
On grass Fed is clearly better, on hard I would give it to novak moderately (remember 2026 AO SF against Sinner, even though the stars alligned we cannot forget how weak Fed's AO 2020 was until SF). On clay it's Novak since Fed skipped clay but still 2019 RG is underrated. I don't know if Novak won the longevity battle though. 2019 Wimbledon is still a great feat by Roger and AO 2026 is the closest performance Novak has (still a bit "worse"), for me they are still equal, but if Novak continues making deep runs at the Slams then I guess he has better longevity.
 
I should have been more clear. With "38 yo Fed" I mean 8th August 2019 - 8th August 2020. Same with Djokovic with his birthday. But I agree overall that 2019 Fed > 2025 Djoko for the 2019 Wimbledon performance.
In 2025 injured Djokovic beat 16 years younger peak Alcaraz in a slam. Nothing Federer did in 2019 came close to that.
 
so when Roger was crushing the tour at 37-38 it was also pisss ? let's just be consistent
Hate to admit it, but it was. You had a better Nadal and better Novak, though, but the rest...

Anyway, these guys (the Big 3) finding success in their mid/late 30s is a combination of several factors IMO - their uniqueness when it comes to the talent and athleticism and a "not that inspiring" competition.
 
Hate to admit it, but it was. You have a better Nadal and better Novak, though, but the rest...

Anyway, these guys (the Big 3) finding success in their mid/late 30s is a combination of several factors IMO - their uniqueness when it comes to the talent and athleticism and a "not that inspiring" competition.
Messi is still one of the best players in the world at 39, Lebron was one of the best players in the world in his late 30's same for curry and durant...

Can't we just admit that all time greats in every sport sustain a great level well into their 30's ? or is every damn sport regressing the last 15 years ?

EDIT: I do agree that the top 10 is curently weaker though but not tennis as a whole.
 
or is every damn sport regressing the last 15 years ?

Different sports have different aging curves, and there hasn't been as much movement to older players as typically purported...this is one of my pet topics:



I’m trying to approach this w/an open mind but I kinda don’t see the stark difference you do here. In some sports, like soccer, there is good evidence to suggest players sustain their primes a little longer. In many other sports though, when looking at the data, it’s not so clear.

Avg NBA player age in 1980 - 26.5.

Avg NBA player age in 2022 - 26.2

The oldest player to ever win a finals MVP remains Kareem (at 38), who was a perennial Top 5 player in his 30’s. Incidentally he was 1980’s MVP, at 33. The leading rebounder in the league was 30. Larry Bird was the only member of the first team All-NBA team younger than 28.

Age of the Top 5 MVP vote-getters?

33, 29, 27, 23, 31 in 1980.

26, 27, 27, 22, 25 in 2022.

Avg MLB player age in 1980 - 28.2

Avg MLB player age in 2022 - 28.2 (down from 28.4 in 2021).

The leader in WAR that year was 36 year old Steve Carlton. Phil Niekro was still an all-star calibre pitcher at 41, and would remain that way until 46. Schmidt and Brett won the MVP’s that year, at 31 and 27.

In the NL, the Top 5 MVP vote-getters were aged, 31, 26, 33, 31 and 36.

In the AL they were 27, 34, 29, 25 and 31.

In 2022?

35, 30, 31, 33 and 29 in the NL.

30, 28, 25, 30 and 30 in the AL.

Virtually identical in almost every respect. No evidence players decline much slower now in baseball.

Avg NHL player age in 1998 (first year this stat is available on HockeyRef) - 27.7

Avg NHL player age in 2022 - 28.2 (27.9 as recently as two years ago though).

The top five vote-getters in ‘98? 33, 25, 27, 25, 37.

‘22? 24, 25, 26, 28, 28.

Again, negligible. For every Jagr of the 2010’s I can point to a Howe of the late 60’s (All-Star at 40) and early 80’s (contributing second-line player at 51).

Don’t have much long-term data on the NFL but the average age now is about 26…I don’t imagine it was ever much younger than that. QB’s last a little longer now, but there are more rules in place to protect them today. RB’s, WR’s, CB’s etc burn out as quick as they ever have. The most longevous WR ever is Jerry Rice, and he retired in ‘04. Favre was an MVP candidate in ‘09, at 40. Marcus Allen made a PB at 33 in 1993, which is almost unheard of for a running back. Elway made consecutive Pro Bowls at 37-38 in ‘97-‘98, ending his career with two Super Bowl wins. Jurgensen’s best run of form was arguably from 33-35. Unitas won an MVP in ‘67, at 34, Tarkenton in ‘75 at 35. Fouts entered his prime in his late 20’s, and remained effective into his mid-late 30’s, in the early 80’s. Len Dawson began his in his late 20’s and remained effective into his mid 30’s. The list goes on.

In tennis, players are absolutely older now, but I wouldn’t pin that primarily on athlete self-care OR the field getting weaker. I think there’s a third culprit:


^before graphite, tennis players sustained good form into later ages for the sports entire history. Only when the tour conditions were shaken up did the average age change significantly (that’s not to say that 30’s were ever a median prime/peak age, however). Then as things started to stabilize, it happened again with polyester, prolonging the “tennis is a sport for zygotes” meme. But older (relative to the 70s-90s) players succeeding (again, relative to 70s-90s standards which still shape our perceptions) was the norm for the first 100 or so years.

More on the rest later, I’m sleepy af.


Pleny more where that came from:












For tennis there has been an age shift but not primarily because """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""sports medicine""""""""""""""""""""" it's mostly just a more stable sport with regards to conditions (ie theyre not changing) which is comfier for older players. Tennis was a super "young man's sport" from about 1978-2003, not always, and """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""sports medicine""""""""""""""""""""""""""" didn't just stall in those 25 years, nor was it driving old-age greatness before then.
 
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Anyway Fed was amazing in 2011 and would be pistol-whipping pretty much every version of the tour from 2018-present.

He was made to look feebler in at 29-30 because he was up against two much younger ATG's in their primes (and no, I am not contradicting myself, which should be clear to those that can entertain multiple thoughts at once).
 
Different sports have different aging curves, and there hasn't been as much movement to older players as typically purported...this is one of my pet topics:
I didn't read your different threads but you seem to be making a broader point about longevity of pro players ? Do I have it right ?
I'm making a simpler argument which is supported enough with the examples I gave : All-time greats across all sports have been sustaining a great level into their mid to late 30's (Lebron and ronaldo are in their 40's now , I'm only reffering to their level into their mid to late 30's)

proof: Big 3 in tennis , Lebron-curry-KD in basketball, Messi-Ronaldo-Modric in football.... these examples are sufficient to sustain my claim which consists of only ATG.

You can't chalk this phenomenon in 3 major sports to chance. These are monumental players in their own sport.

P.S I also follow MMA and Boxing but I don't how much martial arts is relevant here : Usyk undisputed HW champ at 37 , Islam Machachev double ufc champ 34 also n1 p1p ....Canelo , mayweather etc...
 
In 2025 injured Djokovic beat 16 years younger peak Alcaraz in a slam. Nothing Federer did in 2019 came close to that.

He beat Nadal at Wimbledon 2019. Sure, Nadal was 33, and past his best. But Alcaraz was 21, and not yet at his best. He improved a lot later in 2025. And Nadal looked to be playing well going into that 2019 semi.

I would agree that the Alcaraz win was more impressive but not that it was far more impressive.
 
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I didn't read your different threads but you seem to be making a broader point about longevity of pro players ? Do I have it right ?
I'm making a simpler argument which is supported enough with the examples I gave : All-time greats across all sports have been sustaining a great level into their mid to late 30's (Lebron and ronaldo are in their 40's now , I'm only reffering to their level into their mid to late 30's)

proof: Big 3 in tennis , Lebron-curry-KD in basketball, Messi-Ronaldo-Modric in football.... these examples are sufficient to sustain my claim which consists of only ATG.


Bolded: compared to when?

For basketball the difference is absurdly exaggerated. The sport was slightly older at the top in the late '90s.

Curry and KD are Top 10-20 players now , LeBron probably somewhere in the 20's and he's the outlier of outliers (other than Kareem who was a deserving FMVP at 38).

Tennis is older at the top than it was two decades ago, but not much older than it was the 80+ years before 1978(ish).

I know little about footy so won't comment too much, but is Ronaldo even a Top 50 player ITW now? I won't discount that it's older now and I'll defer to those that know more than me (pretty much every European, ha).

TLDR - there hasn't been a "great aging shift" across all sports, it varies by sport and the causes vary within those sports. Hockey and baseball haven't gotten older they've arguably gotten younger. Football hasn't gotten much older, if at all. Basketball was older some 20-30 years ago. It's a bit older than it was in 2005 but not dramatically so.

You can't chalk this phenomenon in 3 major sports to chance. These are monumental players in their own sport.

Basketball was as age-friendly for ATG's in the 90s as it is now. Jordan retired as the best player in the game at 35.5 or roughly when LeBron stopped being worthy of that distinction. Karl Malone was a Top 10 player up to 38; Hakeem 36; Stockton was an All-Star Lvl player at 38, etc.

Statflation/changing offensive climates have distorted the picture.
 
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P.S I also follow MMA and Boxing but I don't how much martial arts is relevant here : Usyk undisputed HW champ at 37 , Islam Machachev double ufc champ 34 also n1 p1p ....Canelo , mayweather etc...

My position on aging curves in combat sports is covered here:


While you make some salient points here, I don't know if the UFC comparison does your argument justice. There's a breaking in/vetting period in MMA that doesn't apply to most other individual sports, where you often have to toil away in the “minor leagues” or beat multiple ranked opponents before securing a title shot.

Khabib, for instance, was basically a championship-caliber fighter by 25 (MAXIMUM, and perhaps earlier based on sheer ability). This was made clear when he dominated RDA in '14, who won the title less than a year later. Yet, he didn't even receive the opportunity to fight for it until 29.9...despite losing zero official rounds in the UFC before the McGregor fight.

Islam, ditto. He has been out-grappling ADCC champs at AKA for years, and per Mendez has been the only LW even taking rounds off Khabib in practice. He's been a championship-level LW since his mid 20's, by my reckoning, but absolutely no one wanted to fight him , and since he wasn't a draw he wasn't given the opportunity.

Leon, he's been coasting through decisions since his early 20's (when his winning streak started) but they slow-played him pretty hard too.

Ngannou, well, he started MMA in his mid 20's and was a technical novice from the wrestling side of things until recently. When he shored up his technical deficiencies, he improved loads, yes, but that same improvement likely would've occurred at a similar stage in his 20's if he took up the sport earlier--as they say, the lower your floor is the more room you have for improvement. And wrestling is generally a young mans sport, so I don't see why MMA wrestling would be much different.

With Pereira, there's really no meaningful frame of reference here. He got fast-tracked to an unmeritocratic degreee for being a great kickboxer and a potential foil/stylistic nightmare for Izzy. He only started pursuing MMA with any dedication at 28, and has only faced two top opponents. Again, really no telling if he would've been a phenom in his early 20's if he started training in his late teens and was given the same fast-tracking. As it stands, he didn't even start kickboxing until 22.

Usman, similar story: only started MMA at 25, and there's just no way you can get fast-tracked to a title shot in <5 years unless you're a big name like Brock Lesnar or Bo Nickal or something. He's definitely improved as a fighter, but his knees have basically been shot since he reached his late 20's and he probably would've beaten Woodley long before he finally got the chance.

Jiri's last fight was at 29 and let's just say it wasn't the most convincing win, nor has he faced particularly strong opposition. I know by virtue of winning the title he HAS to be ranked in the top 15, but in terms of actual opposition beaten...many, many questions remain, and little to state conclusively that he's better now than he was in his mid 20's.


Holloway became champ at 26, and was delivering masterclasses before then too. No good evidence to suggest he was better at 29-31 than 25-27, when he tore a healthier/less battle-worn Aldo apart twice. His last fight against Volk (who, tbf, seems to be a legit example of a fighter that's aged like wine) was a very one-sided loss.

Adesanya...started MMA at 21, didn't string together multiple fights in quick succession til 26. How does this same fighter fare if he began MMA training early in life? No one knows.

Jones is on the list for reputation alone - his last two fights were against Santos in 2019 (by my judgment it was a narrow 48-47 win against a very small LHW that injured both legs during the fight) and Reyes in early 2020 (officially a win, but 3/4ths of MMA Media had Dom as the victor). He hasn't fought in three years, and his performance peak was from 2011-2015--ages 24-28.

Can go on and on, but point is it's basically impossible to draw conclusions about how longevity-friendly MMA is when

a) it's a very young sport, paradigms are constantly changing. You have guys like Jimi Manuwa starting MMA training at 27 and then reaching the Top 15 a few years later....that sort of stuff just isn't even possible in tennis, so how can we compare the two?

b) no matter how good you are, it's inherently unlikely you'll get a title shot before your late 20's. The top fighters frequently hold up the division by not vacating the belt when injured, or stalling to pick favourable match-ups. The UFC brass has also mismanaged things to a scandalous degree in some weight classes, like WW where it's just the same group of 5-6 guys fighting over and over again (Usman-Colby 2x, Masvidal-Usman 2x, Colby-Masvidal, Edwards-Usman 2, soon to be 3x, AND SO ON). Khamzat and Shavkat have probably possessed the ability to smash any of those guys for years now lol. Yet they won't get the shot to prove it until they're 30. Of course you won't get much turnover when it's like that.

c) the sample sizes are ridiculously small and liable to lead to misleading conclusions. Some champs will fight three times in five years and, if they win two of those fights, can remain on the list. And once again, since turnover is glacial (partially due to point B, but not entirely), these rankings will always be biased towards established (read: older) fighters. There's just no way around that unless you expect guys on the come-up to fight killers once a month cuz the clock's ticking.

d) the rankings themselves are hopelessly tailored to boost popular established fighters. E.g McGregor, who didn't even drop out of the LW Top 10 until recently......he's 1-3 at LW in his career. The one win came six years ago. He lost the other three badly.

Also, despite perhaps being 'the most physical sport' the standard MMA skillset actually seems more age-resistant than its counterparts, another reason a direct comparison with tennis is fraught with problems. Strength and technique (valued everywhere, but especially combat sports) decline a lot slower than raw speed/other forms of raw athleticism which enable guys like Couture to stick around until 48 despite being at an age where they would've reached terminal decline in other sports; I mean seriously, can you imagine a Couture-equivalent in modern day tennis, basketball or footy (either kind, except for QB/Kicker in the American version)? Tennis places a larger premium on reflexes/reaction speed, which start to decline in your early 20's (see here: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0094215). Makes sense why, among combat sports, wrestling is actually the least age-friendly as alluded to previously.


As for the other sports, well I can't say I want to exhaustively sift through each example, but baseball is actually trending younger and has been for some time. Oldies have been making waves, especially on the mound, forever...but less so now. Trout is “only” 31, and a generational player so there's no surprise he's still near the top...but he was better from ages 22-26. He has fallen off defensively by some distance, is no longer a terror on the basepaths and isn't as durable. He's improved his plate discipline and raw power, but there's no question he's a less effective player now.

And finally, not to sound like I'm belabouring the point but a lot of these athletes in other sports did go through big declines, only, as you say, they're less noticeable in team sport settings. For instance, LeBron in '20-'21 and '21-'22 is a Fed '13 or Nadal '15-equivalent player...no better than 6th-7th in the world, arguably worse (based on performance in a vacuum I actually think he's 8th-10th at best)...but Fed's '13 and Nadal's '15 were horror-fests while LeBron's efforts are understandably celebrated. Being the “best of the rest” means more in team sports than tennis. If you’re a Top 5-10 player for 8-10 years in baseball, basketball or football (but no better), you’re an all-timer, an easy Hall of Famer. In tennis, it makes you Tomas Berdych.


^TL;DR too different an endeavour to be compared to other sports, older fighters are OBSCENELY favoured, and even this somewhat illusory "older fighter excellence" breaks down in smaller weight divisions which are less age-resistant (think there was a point in which =< 170 lb fighters Age 35+ were something like 2-23 in title fights in the UFC over a span of several years).
 
Bolded: compared to when?

For basketball the difference is absurdly exaggerated. The sport was older at the top in the late '90s.

Curry and KD are Top 10-20 players now , LeBron probably somewhere in the 20's and he's the outlier of outliers (other than Kareem who was a worthy FMVP at 38).

Tennis is older at the top than it was two decades ago, but not much older than it was the 80+ years before 1978(ish) lol.

I know little about footy and won't wade in too hard, but is Ronaldo even a Top 30 player ITW now?

TLDR - there hasn't been a "great aging shift" across all sports, it varies by sport and the causes vary within those sports. Hockey and baseball haven't gotten older. Football hasn't gotten much older, if at all. Basketball was older some 20-30 years ago.



Basketball at the top was older in the late '90s. Jordan retired as the best player in the game at 35.5 or roughly when LeBron stopped being worthy of that distinction. Karl Malone was a Top 10 player up to 38; Hakeem 36; Stockton was an All-Star Lvl player at 38, etc.

Statflation/changing offensive climates have distorted the picture. Durant's 27/6/5 looks amazing in 2010 but now he's posting similar surface-level stats yet isn't a Top 10 player anymore.

It’s an interesting point that, looked at in historical perspective, it’s more accurate to say that the period between about 1975 or 1980 and about 2005 or 2010 was very young, rather than the period since being old. My sense is that this is true for tennis (men’s and women’s), football (soccer), and snooker. I don’t follow other sports enough to have a view. I have a vague sense that it’s true for golf, too.

I also suspect these things are cyclical and there’ll be periods of declining age and of increased age in future, too. Part of it is that sports seem to now have a more deeply entrenched incumbency advantage than in that young period.
 
It’s an interesting point that, looked at in historical perspective, it’s more accurate to say that the period between about 1975 or 1980 and about 2005 or 2010 was very young, rather than the period since being old. My sense is that this is true for tennis (men’s and women’s), football (soccer), and snooker. I don’t follow other sports enough to have a view. I have a vague sense that it’s true for golf, too.

I also suspect these things are cyclical and there’ll be periods of declining age and of increased age in future, too. Part of it is that sports seem to now have a more deeply entrenched incumbency advantage than in that young period.


Yup it's a much messier, murkier topic than people think and deserves a more nuanced treatment.
 
Bolded: compared to when?

For basketball the difference is absurdly exaggerated. The sport was slightly older at the top in the late '90s.

Curry and KD are Top 10-20 players now , LeBron probably somewhere in the 20's and he's the outlier of outliers (other than Kareem who was a deserving FMVP at 38).

Tennis is older at the top than it was two decades ago, but not much older than it was the 80+ years before 1978(ish).

I know little about footy so won't comment too much, but is Ronaldo even a Top 50 player ITW now? I won't discount that it's older now and I'll defer to those that know more than me (pretty much every European, ha).

TLDR - there hasn't been a "great aging shift" across all sports, it varies by sport and the causes vary within those sports. Hockey and baseball haven't gotten older they've arguably gotten younger. Football hasn't gotten much older, if at all. Basketball was older some 20-30 years ago. It's a bit older than it was in 2005 but not dramatically so.



Basketball was as age-friendly for ATG's in the 90s as it is now. Jordan retired as the best player in the game at 35.5 or roughly when LeBron stopped being worthy of that distinction. Karl Malone was a Top 10 player up to 38; Hakeem 36; Stockton was an All-Star Lvl player at 38, etc.

Statflation/changing offensive climates have distorted the picture.
My point was only about all time greats in their mid to late 30's and the examples I gave are pertinent ... you're going off a broader topic again ...your examples for the Dream and Jordan are pertinent but stockton and melone are not ATG's ...

My whole point as a whole is generational players (or ATG's if you will) are sustaining a great level well into their 30's - ATG being top 10-20 all-time on their sports (Ronaldo, Messi, Bron, Big3, Curry and Durant check this box out ) Stockton and melone do not Olajuwon and MJ yes ...but in the 90's in football all the greats declined earlier...same for the 00's .

At no point in time before 2020 in football-basketball-tennis ATG's were still among the best in their sport like they were 6 years ago . I don't think it's by hasard.
 
Messi is still one of the best players in the world at 39, Lebron was one of the best players in the world in his late 30's same for curry and durant...

Can't we just admit that all time greats in every sport sustain a great level well into their 30's ? or is every damn sport regressing the last 15 years ?

EDIT: I do agree that the top 10 is curently weaker though but not tennis as a whole.
That's why I said a combination of factors, these players (including the ones you listed) are exceptional in many aspects. However, apart from them (when it comes to tennis), I don't see the outsiders (which wasn't the case before) who could rattle the big boys harmony.
Another reason is of course the medicine, players have superior longevity today.
 
Federer was a part of the "New balls" generation.

Half of them were retired by the time they were 28-29 and other almost all of the remaining did by 30 -31. And barring exceptions that you can count on your fingers, till then tennis players retired by the age of 28-32.

Him playing on is the anomaly.
 
My point was only about all time greats in their mid to late 30's and the examples I gave are pertinent ... you're going off a broader topic again ...your examples for the Dream and Jordan are pertinent but stockton and melone are not ATG's ...

Malone and Durant are likely of a similar tier (Top 20 and Top 12-15), don't think I've ever heard Malone being classified as a sub-ATG but then again the standard is stricter in tennis so maybe it's a carry-over from that.



My whole point as a whole is generational players (or ATG's if you will) are sustaining a great level well into their 30's - ATG being top 10-20 all-time on their sports (Ronaldo, Messi, Bron, Big3, Curry and Durant check this box out ) Stockton and melone do not Olajuwon and MJ yes ...but in the 90's in football all the greats declined earlier...same for the 00's .

This isn't that new and it varies greatly by sport.

Hockey, baseball - got slightly younger even by your standard (ATG performance in their mid-to-late 30's and beyond).
Basketball - similar to a few other epochs.
Tennis - older than preceding few decades, in-line historically when conditions are similarly stable
Footy - I'm an ignoramous
American Football - not older


At no point in time before 2020 in football-basketball-tennis ATG's were still among the best in their sport like they were 6 years ago . I don't think it's by hasard.

They definitely were in tennis, see Rosewall/Gonzales/Laver for one. It's gotten older than it was from the late '70s mid 2000's but it's mostly because of external stuff not changing much.
 
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They definitely were in tennis, see Rosewall/Gonzales/Laver for one. It's gotten older than it was from the late '70s mid 2000's but it's mostly because of external stuff not changing much.

Not sure I agree with the last line. I think it is part of what is going on but also that there are many factors and no one of them is most of the reason.
 
Not sure I agree with the last line. I think it is part of what is going on but also that there are many factors and no one of them is most of the reason.

Well, I’m sure we can at least agree that them not having to significantly change their strokes in response to changing technology or surfaces at least helped or enabled the longevity.
 
Well, I’m sure we can at least agree that them not having to significantly change their strokes in response to changing technology or surfaces at least helped or enabled the longevity.

Sure. It is a factor, and an important one. I don’t have time now but will try tomorrow to say more on other changes that I think have reduced the advantages young players had in the 80s and 90s.
 
Hockey, baseball - got slightly younger even by your standard (ATG performance in their mid-to-late 30's and beyond).
Basketball - similar to a few other epochs.
Tennis - older than preceding few decades, in-line historically when conditions are similarly stable
Footy - I'm an ignoramous
American Football - not older
Talking strictly goat level players, there's Brady, who was amazing in his 40s, probably the best in the league in some of those years.
 
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