Remember when Fed was called grandpa when he was 10 years younger than Djokovic is now?
- Thread starter junkieballer
- Start date
gamelovergold
Hall of Fame
And what was FEDERER in 2017 ?
Fair enough. I usually forget about him because he admitted that he used stickum on his gloves, but yeah, he was a monster.
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junkieballer
Legend
Are you precise about age only when it suits you?
2025 Djokovic was 2 months older than 2019 Federer.
Djokovic was better than Federer at age 38:
Djokovic 1 Slam final and 3 Slam semifinals
Federer 1 Slam semifinal
By the way Nole's achievements in his 30s blow away Fed's achievements in his 30s overall, so it's pointless to compare just one specific age.
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gamelovergold
Hall of Fame
It will be asked again and again how a player can win 12 slams after reaching 30 years of age.?
junkieballer
Legend
I think Big3 played their best tennis in their 30s.
In their 20s they wasted 4 Slam finals to Wawrinka and Del Potro, while in their 30s they destroyed those type of players in Slam finals.
Big3 in Slam finals vs non-ATG/Big4:
In their 20s = 14-4 (Federer 10-1 / Nadal 3-1 / Djokovic 1-2)
In their 30s = 19-1 (Federer 2-0 / Nadal 7-0 / Djokovic 10-1)
The opponents were strong, it is extremely impressive to be 19-1 in Slam finals against these opponents:
Medvedev x5
Thiem x3
Cilic, Tsitsipas, Ruud, Anderson x2
Wawrinka, Del Potro, Berrettini, Kyrgios x1
In their 20s they wasted 4 Slam finals to Wawrinka and Del Potro, while in their 30s they destroyed those type of players in Slam finals.
Big3 in Slam finals vs non-ATG/Big4:
In their 20s = 14-4 (Federer 10-1 / Nadal 3-1 / Djokovic 1-2)
In their 30s = 19-1 (Federer 2-0 / Nadal 7-0 / Djokovic 10-1)
The opponents were strong, it is extremely impressive to be 19-1 in Slam finals against these opponents:
Medvedev x5
Thiem x3
Cilic, Tsitsipas, Ruud, Anderson x2
Wawrinka, Del Potro, Berrettini, Kyrgios x1
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junkieballer
Legend
Slams Fed either won the title or lost to Djokodal in finals/semifinals:
Before 2008 = 15
Since 2008 = 26
gamelovergold
Hall of Fame
Federer dominance when he reached 18 finals in 19 attempt will remain unparallel.
That is almost 5 years.
Once he was saturated he could not replicate that again .
His age plus rise of Novak made it impossible.
ForehandCross
G.O.A.T.
If you watch your tennis, you know each of the big 3 lost their form after 27-28. Coincidentally 27-28 used to be the cap for players best years back in the day.
Djokovic was 27-28 in 2015-16 stretch which was his absolute peak.
Then came the huge drop off the cliff and near retirement in 2016 mid to 2018 mid.
He was 29 and 30 then. An age of retirement for most of the players
He hit his first peak in 2011 and decidedly his level wasn't the same for next 3 years.
You can even say his 2014-15 resurgence coincided with the fall of Nadal who coincidentally aged 27-28 nose dived in form from 2014 till 2017.
Even Nadal was near retirement in that timeframe.
Both Nadal and Novak could not have consistently peak seasons whether it be 2011-14 for Novak and 2008-14 for Nadal.
I really find it amusing how Federer who had consecutively 4-5 all time seasons was supposed to never have a dip and never play bad and only lose because his opponents were strong in 2008-11 when he passed 27-28 years of age. Despite consistently high level straight for years and years something both Djokovic and Nadal did not do in their mid 20s
Interesting how that works.
ForehandCross
G.O.A.T.
Not to mention after consecutively not having random losses to nobodies from 2004-07 apart from Canas, Starting 2008 Federer would have multiple losses to non Djokovic , Nadal , Murray players all the time.
And he was never taken to 5/ beaten by anyone not named Safin and Nadal in slams for 4 years from 2004 WB till 2007 USO. And suddenly he will start having epics with Tipsarvic, Berdych and co.
And starting 2010 he would start having losses to them slams.
Feels like Federer can't decline after great 4-5 years but Djokovic and Nadal have perfectly explainable form dips.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Rent free.
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
It is a little bit of both. Of course players play at top-level longer today due to better healthcare and medical advancements. Also, however also due to more discipline. I mean in the 90s we had chain smokers and regular drinkers competing at WC level in football. a guy like Ronaldinho, if you see him today, drank away his career but was still competitive for some time. Guys like Mario Basler played Champions League finals while smoking and tennis players were eating fast-food etc.
On the other hand, I also believe that the next generation is getting weaker. Social media crap has demolished their attention span and discipline. On top the earn a heck lot of money before even winning much with followers and commercials alone. In the 90s you actually had to win a slam or something big to become a millionaire, today kids are already millionaire without doing anything.
junkieballer
Legend
Age of current MMA champions:
Gane 36yo
Ulberg 35
Strickland 35
Makhachev 34
Gaethje 37
Volkanovski 37
Yan 33
Van 24 (but won via injury vs dominant champ Pantoja, who was 35yo)
Gane 36yo
Ulberg 35
Strickland 35
Makhachev 34
Gaethje 37
Volkanovski 37
Yan 33
Van 24 (but won via injury vs dominant champ Pantoja, who was 35yo)
junkieballer
Legend
Everyone has always complained about the previous gen. Everyone had a grandpa that used to say "in my times everything was better".
By that logic Spencer Gore is the highest level player of all times.
ForehandCross
G.O.A.T.
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
Nothing increases forever. There is typically a peak at some point and then no further improvements are possible. The 2010s already had most advantages of today but the players still grew up before the cellphone generation, so it was the perfect mix and the actual peak. Now players may have some more technical advancements but it is negligible and the down-side is that youngsters today are exposed to all kind of social media ******** and cheap validation. Just look at the mess of character guys likes Kyrgios, Tsitsipas or Zverev have and compare that to the Big 3. Do you really think, morons who boast about tanking, playing wannabe-philosopher in instagram, trying their hands on rapsongs and being in all kind of messy-relationships with Instagram "models" have the head it takes to break slam records???
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
The current weak era began around Wimbledon '17 and continues to this day.
Breakpointerer
Legend
Yes.
junkieballer
Legend
Why then Djokovic is the only player born before 1991 that reached a Slam quarterfinal since 2022 US Open?
Why is Djokovic the only over31 years old player in the top39 of the world?
This gen did very well at thowing out of the game old players. Djokovic is an exception.
BorisRogerFan
Semi-Pro
Remember the times when Boris was called 'ageing' and 'old' at 27 during the 1995 Wimbledon
final against Pete.
final against Pete.
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BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
You seriously want to tell me that guys like Kyrgios, Tsitsipas, Shapovalov, Medvedev, Zverev have the mentality and mindset to be multi-slammers (5+) in any era? All of them hang way too much around in social media, all of them are incredibly fragile with all kind of distractions outside of the court and more talking than anything. Med completely fell off the cliff, Kyrgios never fulfilled his potential out of fear of losing, Shapo never won anything and Tsitsi is nowhere to be seen anymore. All of them had completely messy relationships unlike the big 3 or Sampras with stable marriages.
As for your constantly parroted "Djoko is an exception": The 31 years old of today are also from the Insta era. Djoko is next to the only left from the golden era and of course if you are not a GOAT candidate then no matter how weak the era is you will not be a top player at age 39. Stan however is also still playing. The fact alone, that Dimi and Fognini can still at ancient age push the two most dominating players of today, the fact that Messi can score 7 goals still at age 39, the fact that Lebron is still extremely competitive at age 40+, the fact that once the dominating duo of Sinneraz is out or weak, all kind of unknown folks or players who could not win during even the era of "ancient Big 3" are now coming out of the woodwork tells me all I need to know about the strength of today's players.
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
Fed and Nadal were more thrown out by injuries and because their bodies could not hold it any longer. It is not that they were constantly losing against the likes of Med/Zed/Tsitsi before they called it a career.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Exactly. People were already preparing the lame excuses. Djokovic at 39 is still kicking tail.
Gazelle
G.O.A.T.
Basic math fail.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
It’s just an inside joke
junkieballer
Legend
I think Zverev, Medvedev and Tsitsipas are better players than Hewitt, Safin and Roddick.
prize money adjusted for inflation:
2018 Zverev $10,312,204
2023 Medvedev $10,162,158
2019 Tsitsipas $8,798,565
2001 Hewitt $7,033,641
2000 Safin $6,030,050
2003 Roddick $5,828,967
junkieballer
Legend
Djokovic, Federer and Nadal are not the only over31 years old players that exist.
Players currently aged 31-39 that have reached the top10 in their career but that currently are not in the top39 of the world:
Murray
Thiem
Del Potro
Cilic
Dimitrov
Raonic
Nishikori
Goffin
Schwartzmann
Sock
Bautista Agut
Fognini
Pouille
Carreno Busta
Gulbis
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Why do you think there is noone aged 31+ in top40 except Djokovic? Weak 90s gen, age, or a combination?
junkieballer
Legend
strong current <31yo gen + weak 31-34yo gen (born 1992-95)
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
It's a sad world where people feel entitled to think whatever they want and nothing can be done about that, alas.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
It’s better than no free speech at all. There is nothing without drawbacks
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Right back at you.
The math doesn’t agree with you. Fed was 29 and 10 months at RG 2011, which means the difference between him and current Djokovic is 9 years and 2 months (4 months now), not 10 years like you said. So closer to 9 years.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
But 2019 Fed at 37-38 was better than 2025 Djokovic at 37-38. There’s only 2 months and 3 weeks separating them, so no need to be pedantic.
And Fed’s achievements at 27 dwarfed Djokovic’s at the same age. So?
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
We needn't have to choose between two extremities. Saying what's on your mind is helpful *unless* said mind is filled with stupid *****. In particular, many people need to have the difference between facts and opinions driven into their skulls.
junkieballer
Legend
Agree about 92-95 but i dont see 96-00 as particulary strong either. Medvedev and Zverev are decent tier 2 players.
junkieballer
Legend
strong enough to keep 31-39yo out of top39
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
Half of these players are retired so pointless. Most of them were not pushed out by the younger gen though. Also, what you need to get through your thick cranium is that rankings are not really reflective for how older players perform since stamina and regeneration is what is affected most by age. A 35+ players can rarely if ever play a full schedule of Masters etc. so they will next to never have good rankings. Even your beloved Djoko himself is currently ranked 8, however, any half-baked moron understands that once the slams come, he will be 3rd or 4th favorite to win the whole thing.
When guys like Fog or Dimi can push the by far best players Sinneraz you might write it off as an one-off, even though I find it interesting, that Fognini who never ever won anything big during Big 3 era can at age 39 push the best player of the current gen on his last leg. Dimi no again beat the likes of Mensik and Berretini one upcoming youngster and one guy who actually reached slam finals not so long ago. A guy like Zverev now at 29 out of a sudden for the first time in his life reaches three slam semifinals in a row. Sorry, I do not really buy the myth of players getting better and the strength of the field is increasing when I see all these cases.
Bottomline: What you mention here about rankings and that Djoko is the only one 31+ in the top 39 (which is random anyways), does not say anything. What is important is how the oldies perform at slams.
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junkieballer
Legend
other than Djokovic no player born before 1991 has reached a Slam quarterfinal in the last 16 Slams
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objection_
Professional
junkieballer
Legend
sorry, I meant last 16 (since 2022 UO)
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
Prize money is rewarding consistency, however, a big peak level is way more relevant. A guy like Safin who was injured a lot of times and also played weak in many matches will likely not get high prize money. However, his peak level was high enough to challenge the Big 3 even close to their best so he could actually cause harm to them. Guys like Ferrer or Murray who reliably like clockwork beat the players they have to beat and reached later stages of slams with astonishing regularity rarely if ever allowing themselves an unnecessary loss, will earn more prize money but they will not do much harm to big 3. A guy like Safin is 10 times more dangerous to Big 3 than 5 Ferrers.
As for Hewitt and Roddick: I am not a big fan of any of them and find them really overrated. Hewitt still has an impressive slam win over Sampras and ended two years at No.1. Zed/Med are roughly on the same level as Roddick/Hewitt overall, Tsitsi is easily behind all of them. Safin for peak is the best of the whole bunch.
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
Nadal won two slams in 2022 but let us ignore it. There are no ATGs or GOAT candidates from Big 3 era left so how should they reach quarters? Of course a guy like Dimi or Fognini who even at their prime age rarely reached slam QFs will not out of the sudden at age 35+ make deep runs all the time. The way they perform(ed) is enough for me however to call b(u)llshit on the theory of ever evolving sports.
junkieballer
Legend
how does that dispute what I wrote?
since 2022 UO no player born before 1991 reached a Slam QF other than Djokovic. It is a fact
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
It is incredible hairsplitting, but if we want to be pedantic: Wimbledon 2026 is not over yet, so Wimbledon 2022 is less than 4 years ago and Nadal reached Semi there. So your statement was wrong.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Roddick does have 2 impressive slam showings over Federer that beat whatever Zed/Med/Tsits did against the Big 3
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Tennis evolution was always exaggerated. Even now people still give 39 year old Novak a chance vs Sinner.
junkieballer
Legend
Struff born 1990 reached the QF, by the way.
but my point does not change, 1 quarterfinal in last 16 Slams are very poor results.
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mike danny
Bionic Poster
I did say 4 months in paranthesis, but nice try
Age isnt irrelevant here, age is also highly linked to injuries:
Murray
DelPo
Cilic (highly declined)
Nishikori
Raonic
Thiem
Sure ive forgot some too. I agree that 89-95 were particulary bad, and partly the reason why there are absolutely zero of these players in top40
