Replace Zverev and Medvedev with Fedal in the semis. Do Djokovic's chances increase, decrease or stay the same for CYGS?

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic's path to the potential CYGS and 21 is likely Zverev and Medvedev, likely because FAA may pull off the upset, and it is considered pretty tough, as they are the most in form players of the HC summer. If these two were replaced by Fedal, what do you think of Djokovic's chances at it stands? In this instance all are healthy, but in their 2021 forms.

And yes, you can make a different case for which of the two he would play first in the semi and which would be waiting in the final.
 

paolo2143

Semi-Pro
Dramatically increase if we are talking about 2021 Rafa or Roger.

I would be much more confident if that was Novak's opponents rather than Sasha or Danii. Now i am only talking about current versions, obviously if it was peak Rafa and Roger they would be a bigger hurdle to get past both. Novak has done it before though
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic's path to the potential CYGS and 21 is likely Zverev and Medvedev, likely because FAA may pull off the upset, and it is considered pretty tough, as they are the most in form players of the HC summer. If these two were replaced by Fedal, what do you think of Djokovic's chances at it stands? In this instance all are healthy, but in their 2021 forms.

And yes, you can make a different case for which of the two he would play first in the semi and which would be waiting in the final.
Depends on what years you pick for Fedal.
 

Djokodal Fan

Hall of Fame
his chances would dramatically increase since he knows their game inside out and deep inside Novak knows they both cannot beat them at this stage.

With a player like Zverev , it's always a wildcard. Plus they have fresh young legs which can run better with better reflexes.
 

Zetty

Hall of Fame
10 years ago, they would have decreased. Today, they would have increased even if Fedal were healthy.
Tough to admit but this is probably the case. Tho I don't think Fed has been healthy at any point this season so I'm not sure with him we've seen his injured 2021 form.
 
Last edited:

MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
In this instance all are healthy, but in their 2021 forms.
That's basically impossible to judge since their form has been directly linked to their health this year. Did RG/Wimbledon count as "healthy" Federer for instance? Is healthy Nadal simply still playing through the current foot pain that he's had all year, or is it gone completely? In which case it's basically 2020 Nadal we're talking about.
 

Kralingen

Legend
Djokovic vs Federer
6-0, 1-0, [ret.]

Djokovic vs Nadal
0-0 [ret.]

both are injured and completely out of form, and wouldn’t have been able to be competitive in the slightest.
 

ND-13

Hall of Fame
Is this some kind of a joke we want 40 year Fed and 35 year (injured )Rafa as the opponents in the final week ?
 

ibbi

Legend
In theory I'd say Medvedev and Zverev as they've shown levels higher this year than those other two have, but I think a lot of it will have to do with what state Novak is in as he approaches the finish line. So far he's handled it really well, but if he were to tighten up, especially in a final, I'd probably like Roger or Rafa's chances of finishing him off more than either of the lads.
 

ND-13

Hall of Fame
his chances would dramatically increase since he knows their game inside out and deep inside Novak knows they both cannot beat them at this stage.

With a player like Zverev , it's always a wildcard. Plus they have fresh young legs which can run better with better reflexes.
At other times, we often hear the argument that youngsters mean nothing and experience is what counts ( like Ferrer > Hewitt, Medvedev > Safin and Berretini > Roderick and Gonzalez / Baghdatis worse than Murray )
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
A 33 year old Rafa rather easily dismissed Med at 2019 U.S. Final. A 34 year old Fed would have beaten 2021 Zed and Med.

It is important that Djoker make a statement here and defeat Zed and Med.

Djoker is representing the Big Three against Next Gen. He is playing for all of us. Everyone needs to support Djoker.
 

Clay lover

Hall of Fame
Probably increase. He's had their number since a long time ago. Youngsters choke but they still have the bigger X factor
 

Imperator

Hall of Fame
A 33 year old Rafa rather easily dismissed Med at 2019 U.S. Final. A 34 year old Fed would have beaten 2021 Zed and Med.

It is important that Djoker make a statement here and defeat Zed and Med.

Djoker is representing the Big Three against Next Gen. He is playing for all of us. Everyone needs to support Djoker.
"Rather easily" and it took him 5 sets to win. Makes sense.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
"Rather easily" and it took him 5 sets to win. Makes sense.
Rafa won the first two sets rather easily. Med made a desperate comeback by switching tactics and trying to serve and volley. It worked to get him back in it, but Rafa was never in serious danger of losing this match.

Med is a baseliner who hangs out by the back fence. Med's desperate Plan B to serve and volley is not going to carry him to victory over a GOAT? It is never going to happen... Med's only hope was that Rafa would physically wear out.
 
Last edited:

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Rafa won the first two sets rather easily. Med made a desperate comeback by switching tactics and trying to serve and volley. It worked to get him back in it, but Rafa was never in serious danger of losing this match.

Med's Plan B serve and volley is not going to carry him to victory over a GOAT.
I think you need to watch the 5th set again.
 

One

Rookie
He already beat two of them in a row. Zed and Med are toughest draw possible here. What is the point of this threat? He gets 21 here he is undisputed goat. Period.
 
He's not beating a healthy Nadal in this form at Flushing. He couldn't even beat him in 2010/2013 when he was playing much better tennis than he is now. Zverev/Med isn't tougher than a healthy Nadal here. Yes they’re younger with fresher legs but there’s more to it than that.
 
Last edited:

topher

Hall of Fame
That's basically impossible to judge since their form has been directly linked to their health this year. Did RG/Wimbledon count as "healthy" Federer for instance? Is healthy Nadal simply still playing through the current foot pain that he's had all year, or is it gone completely? In which case it's basically 2020 Nadal we're talking about.
It seems most didn’t read OP and simply assume Rafa and Roger will still be injured. The rest forget the USO does not play like the AO.

Rafa if healthy would be basically at his 2019 USO form. Med isn’t playing any better than he was in 2019, so by that year’s result he’s a better test than Med by default. That’s not even mentioning his positive record here in finals against Novak.

Fed basically hasn’t been healthy since 2019, when he beat Novak at WTF and nearly won Wimbledon. That certainly puts him above Sascha “never won a top 10 slam match” Zverev on the threat radar.
 
Last edited:

uscwang

Hall of Fame
I think having Fedal in the draw at USO will make life a lot tougher for Zevrevs and Medvedevs, and make it easier for Novak. They'll be gatekeepers.
 

mr tonyz

Professional
He was one miraculous slice away from doing just that. He'd lose that point 5/5 times if he had to replay it.
Was this defending break point when serving for the championship @ 5-4 in the 5th? Just taking a punt here ...

If he'd lose this point 5/5 times what did it mean for the point that you are referring to? 1/10 times perhaps lol?
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Was this defending break point when serving for the championship @ 5-4 in the 5th? Just taking a punt here ...

If he'd lose this point 5/5 times what did it mean for the point that you are referring to? 1/10 times perhaps lol?
It was just epic af and he was extremely close to losing. I'm not here to over analyze it, my comments are there in the live match thread.
 

nachiket nolefam

Hall of Fame
Federer is his bunny. Rafa has become his bunny on hard courts. Come on.
He hasn't lost a tb vs both these oldies since 2018 Wimbledon. How many tiebreaks was that?
Wimbledon 2018 - Razor thin margin old Rafa nervy blinked
ATP cup 2020 - Rafa pushed somehow to TB and then blasted in TB
RG 2021 - Rafa pushed somehow to TB and then blasted in TB
Paris 2018 - Federer broke Novak once and got beaten by losing 2 TB, both TB he was ridiculously nervy
Wimbledon 2019 - No comments needed but still. Djokovic didn't make a single UE while nervy fed couldn't even volley
AO 2020 - Injured Fed still went up a break vs nole but got demolished in TB

Now compare that to Next gens
Lost only TB he played in RG final
Lost 1 TB vs Zverev and won 1 in 2021 - only TB he won vs next gen
Lost both TB vs Musetti and was almost out of the tournament
Lost both TB vs Berrettini in RG and Wimbledon

He will be so much comfortable when playing Fedal who are so old. Man Federer is so old he won his first slam while Friends was still on air. Forget that guy now. Zverev and Medvedev on HC is as tough as you can get in 2021. Forget Federer completely now. Nadal maybe if he doesn't come back from injury but I am still ok with Nadal. Nadal is his bunny outside clay and even lost on clay in RG so who cares anymore.
 

nachiket nolefam

Hall of Fame
Even if you give Federer and Nadal match on their racket, mentally they will wilt now. Age is something they know now they will always have. Novak is just 11 months younger than Rafa but just see the difference. Yesterday he lost a 80 min opening set. And he looked fresher than a 25 year old. How can a 35 year old Nadal and a 40 year old Federer who completely look their age even have courage even if hypothetically they are up a set.

Next gen have age on their side. They can beat Djokovic yes. Sascha has game that can beat anybody.
 

Amen786

Semi-Pro
Djokovic's path to the potential CYGS and 21 is likely Zverev and Medvedev, likely because FAA may pull off the upset, and it is considered pretty tough, as they are the most in form players of the HC summer. If these two were replaced by Fedal, what do you think of Djokovic's chances at it stands? In this instance all are healthy, but in their 2021 forms.

And yes, you can make a different case for which of the two he would play first in the semi and which would be waiting in the final.
So we're to find the lastest decent version of Federer and nadal.

Last time Federer played a good United States open was in 2015, and that surface was slower than this current one. I think that version of Federer beats 2021 Djokovic in 4 sets, even if he messes up on many break points; because ground game wise, Djokovic is far away from the 2015 heights.

Last time Nadal played a good United States open was in 2019, and that surface was slower & bouncier than this one. Which plays at Nadal's disadvantage. I think that version of Nadal gets defeated by this Djokovic in 5 sets, mainly due to lack of stamina at the end.
 

mr tonyz

Professional
It was just epic af and he was extremely close to losing. I'm not here to over analyze it, my comments are there in the live match thread.
Not really because Nadal once said "if you go double break you are dead" so that 5th set was a mere formality after the double break ;P
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Not really because Nadal once said "if you go double break you are dead" so that 5th set was a mere formality after the double break ;P
Yeah he was super confident after handing a break back due to a time violation and playing points on his knees :rolleyes:
 

vex

Hall of Fame
It would be much easier to beat 2021 Fed and Nadal back to back than Zed/Med. Fed would need like 4 walk over just to meet Djokovic at this point. Rafa hasn’t beaten Djoker on hard in like a decade and Djoker broke him physically at RG. Even if healthy they’d both struggle against him atm
 

TennisFan3

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic's path to the potential CYGS and 21 is likely Zverev and Medvedev, likely because FAA may pull off the upset, and it is considered pretty tough, as they are the most in form players of the HC summer. If these two were replaced by Fedal, what do you think of Djokovic's chances at it stands? In this instance all are healthy, but in their 2021 forms.

And yes, you can make a different case for which of the two he would play first in the semi and which would be waiting in the final.
Is this a TRICK QUESTION?
If Fed and Nadal made the SF/F it means they are fit.

Fedal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zed and Med -overrated SERIAL chokers.

Djokovic's path to CYGS is 100x EASIER because he does NOT have to face ANYONE who EVER won a slam. Fedal are champions, they wouldn't choke or hand Novak anything.
I'm willing to bet Novak would NOT have done CYGS with Fedal. Why? Not because Fedal are better, but because there would be pressure and Novak would slip and Fedal would pounce.
There is a REASON why CYGS has NOT been done. At each stage, there was AN ATG at the end stopping the CYGS warrior. Now Novak has NO ATG to deal with.

Med and Zed are both pretenders - it doesn't matter how much pressure Novak feels, NEITHER have a PRAYER to come close to taking 3 sets off Novak. Hell, they won't be able to do that in 2 matches combined.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
It would be much easier to beat 2021 Fed and Nadal back to back than Zed/Med. Fed would need like 4 walk over just to meet Djokovic at this point. Rafa hasn’t beaten Djoker on hard in like a decade and Djoker broke him physically at RG. Even if healthy they’d both struggle against him atm
Don't understand how this is even a question. Zed and Med is a much tougher challenge than a healthy 2021 Fed and healthy 2021 Rafa.
 

ChrisRF

Hall of Fame
The problem is that Medvedev is a non-factor. He won't beat Djokovic in a Slam final under any circumstances. And Zverev usually delivers against the Big 3 in Best of 3, but never showed anything in Best of 5 that is even promising.

So still Fedal, even though the chance would be small as well. For Nadal the US Open are most likely his best hardcourt tournament, and Federer was never really fit this year, so a "fit and healthy" 40-year-old Federer is different from what we actually saw from him.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Oh that slice :love: Was that intentional or just a bad slice that turned into a goaty one?:laughing:
He tried to do that same slice in the ATP Cup final a few months later against Djokovic, but Novak was having none of it. He read it, and didn't make the mistake that Medvedev made there when approaching the net.
 

spottishwood

Semi-Pro
It would be much easier to beat 2021 Fed and Nadal back to back than Zed/Med. Fed would need like 4 walk over just to meet Djokovic at this point. Rafa hasn’t beaten Djoker on hard in like a decade and Djoker broke him physically at RG. Even if healthy they’d both struggle against him atm
Well that's not impossible, is it?
 

tex123

Professional
Djokovic's path to the potential CYGS and 21 is likely Zverev and Medvedev, likely because FAA may pull off the upset, and it is considered pretty tough, as they are the most in form players of the HC summer. If these two were replaced by Fedal, what do you think of Djokovic's chances at it stands? In this instance all are healthy, but in their 2021 forms.

And yes, you can make a different case for which of the two he would play first in the semi and which would be waiting in the final.
Well, Novak is not winning if he met Nadal and Fed in semis and finals.

That's because Nadal would've taken his legs out with a 5 setter gruelling match (if they meet in semis). Nadal also holds a slight edge at the US Open. If he had met Federer in the semis, then he may not be physically exhausted but mentally because there's another gruelling encounter with Rafa in the final and the pressure of CYGS.
 
Top