Returning a Kick Serve in a Doubles Match

[TENNIS_IS_FUN]

i've had a hard time returning kick serves in doubles match. Since i have a stronger backhand than my partner, i have to recieve on the backhand side, which makes it even more difficult. Im a high school student, and all tennis players in my district use kick serves, both for the 1st and 2nd serves. Heres my problem:
There kickserve is relatively fast, with an extremely high bounce. I dont have enough confidence in my shots to hit the serve as it rises, so i wait for it to float up. My only choice then is to hit a flat shot. By the time the ball reaches its highest point, the netman is ready to hit a winner off of my return. Hitting an ally passing shot off of a kick serve is relatively hard for me, and my cross court flat shots off of the kickserves arent strong enough to be something that hurts my opponant...and sometimes, the netman would be so confident that he would hit winners by moving sideways to retrieve the crosscourt shot. Can you guys help me??

 

[Midlife crisis]

I think you're going to have to learn to hit it on the rise. By letting the ball bounce all the way up there, you're giving the server a LOT of time to get into a good volleying position, into which you're having to hit a difficult shot. That's not a good combination.

Instead of trying to hit winners, just try to hit a good, low, angled shot that you can keep away from being poached all the time. You'll catch the server on his/her way in, and especially if you can keep it down below his knees, your teammate will be in a good position to poach. As you get better and more comfortable with returning kick serves in this way, you can try for more forcing shots.

BTW, when I play doubles, we usually try to play the person with the stronger backhand in the deuce court, because the inside-out backhand is harder to hit than a regular crosscourt backhand.

 

[Phil]

i've had a hard time returning kick serves in doubles match. Since i have a stronger backhand than my partner, i have to recieve on the backhand side, which makes it even more difficult. Im a high school student, and all tennis players in my district use kick serves, both for the 1st and 2nd serves. Heres my problem:
There kickserve is relatively fast, with an extremely high bounce. I dont have enough confidence in my shots to hit the serve as it rises, so i wait for it to float up. My only choice then is to hit a flat shot. By the time the ball reaches its highest point, the netman is ready to hit a winner off of my return. Hitting an ally passing shot off of a kick serve is relatively hard for me, and my cross court flat shots off of the kickserves arent strong enough to be something that hurts my opponant...and sometimes, the netman would be so confident that he would hit winners by moving sideways to retrieve the crosscourt shot. Can you guys help me??

The more it kicks (spins) the heavier a slice you can hit. I find that a slice return of the kick, especially if you can make contact INSIDE of the court with your weight fgoing orward, is very effective in neutralizing the attacking server. This is not a "floating" slice, mind you, it's shot that uses your opponent's spin and is often hit heavy enough that it will turn his racquet hand if he gets the strings on it.

 

[SCSI]

You will get killed if you slice back in doubles. Either learn to hit it on the rise or wait close to the side line if you know that kick serve is coming.

First, don't panic. Kick serves usually don't have much pace and you should hit it when it is your strike zone. Just back up a bit and hit a sharply angled cross court return. You don't need to hit it hard, but keep it low. Mix it up by throwing up a lob and hitting in the alley on every second or third return.

 

[bluegrasser]

I disagree SCSI, a hard slice is the best shot, at least for the 1hnd, it stays low and makes it tough for the poacher, or for the server coming in for the volley, as he's hitting up on the ball + if you follow the slice return to the net you'll get many put-aways.

 

[kevhen]

Play two back, maybe go for a lob return over the netman or just keep hitting crosscourt. With your partner back and not a target on your weak return, you can start from a more defensive position and maybe get back into the point instead of losing it immediately. You do have to really fight to get up and over those high kick serves, almost jumping into your shot, and put everything you have into it to reverse the spin and hit a decent shot that won't get picked off. Good luck.

 

[papa]

I disagree SCSI, a hard slice is the best shot, at least for the 1hnd, it stays low and makes it tough for the poacher, or for the server coming in for the volley, as he's hitting up on the ball + if you follow the slice return to the net you'll get many put-aways.

Yes, I'm with you here. Slice drive is a great shot for the return of service - just make sure you don't pop them up so their netman has an easy play.

 

[papa]

Play two back, maybe go for a lob return over the netman or just keep hitting crosscourt. With your partner back and not a target on your weak return, you can start from a more defensive position and maybe get back into the point instead of losing it immediately. You do have to really fight to get up and over those high kick serves, almost jumping into your shot, and put everything you have into it to reverse the spin and hit a decent shot that won't get picked off. Good luck.

I don't want to start a big discussion about return formations but in the example you gave, what do you (your team) do "after" you lob the netman?
Not trying to trick you here but I'm just wondering how you play out the point. I've never been a big fan of "two back" but realize its necessary at times.

 

[Caswell]

I disagree SCSI, a hard slice is the best shot, at least for the 1hnd, it stays low and makes it tough for the poacher, or for the server coming in for the volley, as he's hitting up on the ball + if you follow the slice return to the net you'll get many put-aways.

Well put.

 

[loubapache]

Agree with people said using slice.

Another advantage is that with a hard slice and low return, the poacher will net a few balls or pop them up for you.

 

[Freedom]

Learn to hit the alley passing shot. I love it.

 

[kevhen]

Sometimes slice is hard against heavy topspin since the spin doubles and becomes hard to control as the ball floats high and slows down spinning so much.


If the lob is high and deep, you can charge in behind it or wait for a better shot to approach on now that at least one of your opponents has retreated to cover the lob. If the lob is weak then you sit on the baseline and play defense and keep the ball in play until you have a chance to hit a good approach shot. I see too many people losing points by making kamikaze runs at the net instead of being patient and waiting for a decent opportunity to get in. You can win points in doubles from the baseline if you have a decent baseline game while still getting yourself to net when you have the chance.

 

[papa]

Sometimes slice is hard against heavy topspin since the spin doubles and becomes hard to control as the ball floats high and slows down spinning so much.


If the lob is high and deep, you can charge in behind it or wait for a better shot to approach on now that at least one of your opponents has retreated to cover the lob. If the lob is weak then you sit on the baseline and play defense and keep the ball in play until you have a chance to hit a good approach shot. I see too many people losing points by making kamikaze runs at the net instead of being patient and waiting for a decent opportunity to get in. You can win points in doubles from the baseline if you have a decent baseline game while still getting yourself to net when you have the chance.

OK. Well, I think a lob is an excellent approach shot (might be the best) and generally you both can take the net (get inside the service line) without much trouble. When a team is lobed and one has to hit from the baseline/or further back, both players should retreat not just the one who is going to play the shot - at least the "up" player should retreat to cover the hole. However, I like both going back.

I certainly agree with you that some players "rush" the net without any decent approach shot and get generally get caught with an offensive lob. I also think the "up" person should be very active at net and look for every opportunity to poach.

 

[vinky]

Moving back is a strategy commonly used by many pros, and as long as you have decent power, you might have success with it too. For example, on many returns, you can see Federer clearly jumping BACKWARDS on his split step... and usually what follows is a huge forehand return winner.

Of course, I guess you'd have to be somewhat talented to do that.

 

[TENNIS_IS_FUN]

me and my partner have tried double back...we keep getting ***** by angled shots and droppers..

 

[papa]

Moving back is a strategy commonly used by many pros, and as long as you have decent power, you might have success with it too. For example, on many returns, you can see Federer clearly jumping BACKWARDS on his split step... and usually what follows is a huge forehand return winner.

Of course, I guess you'd have to be somewhat talented to do that.

In doubles?

 

[RacquetGoesBoom]

Well, it's been some time since I've played doubles for my high school, but from what I gather from my experiences, I think that the best shot is go down the line (as others have said), but since I'm not the most accurate guy in the world, I usually hit it cross court and try to aim as close to the doubles line as I can.
When doing this, I hit the ball at its high point by jumping up (it's unorthodox, but it works for me) and hitting the ball with a western forehand so that there would be more pace on the ball and it also causes the ball to dip down, making it harder for the poacher to try and volley it back.
I don't know if this would work for you because my style of tennis is quite unorthodox compared to others, so I don't have them beautiful strokes or what not.

 

[10ispro]

In doubles?

Fernando Gonzales and Nicolas Massue won an Olympic Gold Medal playing the majority of their matches 2 back formation. Even the Bryn Bros will play 2 back returning against some teams.
Pasqual and Suarez who have been the #1 doubles team in the world on the WTA tour play 2 back.

2 back returning does a couple things. The 1st and most important is it takesthe effectiveness of the poach away. 90% of poached vollies will go at the recieveres partner b/c of the angle the poacher is moving and the fact that the recievers partner has the least time to react to the ball.
Having this person back closer to the baseline can give them more reaction time and an additional play on the ball.

With the pace and amount of spin players can hit with today, being at the baseline is no longer viewed as a defensive position in doubles. Players now, can hit as much spin to drop balls at about any angle by a volliers feets and enough pace to put even the best volliers pop up a more defensive volley.

it also gives your opponents a very different look at the court. Changing perceptions can cause alot of confusion to some players. Also, expect alot of players to think, Ok we'll just hit drop vollies etc...Which in itself can be adifficult shot at many levels especially at the pace many players today can make a return. then add in the pressure of a tight match like a tie break and that pretty lil drop volley winner at 2-0 in the 2st set becomes a pop up feed for u to pound through his chest

Doubles is about time management. Giving your team time and taking away time from your opponents.

anyways to answer the original question, your best option is to focus on learning to hit the kick on the rise so it cant spin off or kick up. To do this, force yoruself to stand a couple feet behind the service line and as soon as the toss goes up, take a couple small steps forward. split with a small hip/shoulder rotation and accelterate through the ball.
Have the serve start out serving high slow kickers, so you can get your footwork and timing adjusted and then slowly speed up as your comfort level increases.

great players become comfortable doing the uncomfortable.

 

[papa]

Fernando Gonzales and Nicolas Massue won an Olympic Gold Medal playing the majority of their matches 2 back formation. Even the Bryn Bros will play 2 back returning against some teams.
Pasqual and Suarez who have been the #1 doubles team in the world on the WTA tour play 2 back.

2 back returning does a couple things. The 1st and most important is it takesthe effectiveness of the poach away. 90% of poached vollies will go at the recieveres partner b/c of the angle the poacher is moving and the fact that the recievers partner has the least time to react to the ball.
Having this person back closer to the baseline can give them more reaction time and an additional play on the ball.

With the pace and amount of spin players can hit with today, being at the baseline is no longer viewed as a defensive position in doubles. Players now, can hit as much spin to drop balls at about any angle by a volliers feets and enough pace to put even the best volliers pop up a more defensive volley.

it also gives your opponents a very different look at the court. Changing perceptions can cause alot of confusion to some players. Also, expect alot of players to think, Ok we'll just hit drop vollies etc...Which in itself can be adifficult shot at many levels especially at the pace many players today can make a return. then add in the pressure of a tight match like a tie break and that pretty lil drop volley winner at 2-0 in the 2st set becomes a pop up feed for u to pound through his chest

Doubles is about time management. Giving your team time and taking away time from your opponents.

anyways to answer the original question, your best option is to focus on learning to hit the kick on the rise so it cant spin off or kick up. To do this, force yoruself to stand a couple feet behind the service line and as soon as the toss goes up, take a couple small steps forward. split with a small hip/shoulder rotation and accelterate through the ball.
Have the serve start out serving high slow kickers, so you can get your footwork and timing adjusted and then slowly speed up as your comfort level increases.

great players become comfortable doing the uncomfortable.

Well, the problem with some of this is that I just don't think it true. Yes, occasionally you'll see players play two back at the higher levels but I don't think its necessarily for the reasons you stated.

For instance if I'm poaching a return of service, my chances are better against two back because the poach shouldn't be hit back to the baseline but rather angled off. You might have more time to react but your not going to reach the ball.

Presenting a "different look" sounds better than it actually is. Yeah, it will work a time or two but not as a regualar (normal) position. Drop shots from the baseline are questionable at best and if the opponents are in the "up" position they are, as you know, stupid.

As far as I'm concerned two back is still a defensive allignment - do you have any references that have it otherwise?

There are a couple of advantages but in most cases the disadvantages far outweigh the advantages. I know some of the kids (at the top levels) these days are playing the one up, one back formation and doing ok with it. You have to be very good to pull it off and I certainly would not suggest it to the average player because it won't work. However, when they play against two up opponents, they generally lose.

Two up is "generally" the best position for winning the pont.

I like your comment about "time management" in doubles. However, you have to be very carefull about not giving your opponents too much time. Playing two back gives them that "little extra time".

A lot of this depends on the level your playing and in many instances what works at one level just will not work at the other. Most good teams will close down the middle and force you to go for the angles - by keeping the ball in the middle they are going to force you to go for the difficult angles. Your not going to get set up for all these "down the line" shots and great angles that you dream about. The further back you play the more the angles disappear.

 

[papa]

Fernando Gonzales and Nicolas Massue won an Olympic Gold Medal playing the majority of their matches 2 back formation. Even the Bryn Bros will play 2 back returning against some teams.
Pasqual and Suarez who have been the #1 doubles team in the world on the WTA tour play 2 back.

2 back returning does a couple things. The 1st and most important is it takesthe effectiveness of the poach away. 90% of poached vollies will go at the recieveres partner b/c of the angle the poacher is moving and the fact that the recievers partner has the least time to react to the ball.
Having this person back closer to the baseline can give them more reaction time and an additional play on the ball.

With the pace and amount of spin players can hit with today, being at the baseline is no longer viewed as a defensive position in doubles. Players now, can hit as much spin to drop balls at about any angle by a volliers feets and enough pace to put even the best volliers pop up a more defensive volley.

it also gives your opponents a very different look at the court. Changing perceptions can cause alot of confusion to some players. Also, expect alot of players to think, Ok we'll just hit drop vollies etc...Which in itself can be adifficult shot at many levels especially at the pace many players today can make a return. then add in the pressure of a tight match like a tie break and that pretty lil drop volley winner at 2-0 in the 2st set becomes a pop up feed for u to pound through his chest

Doubles is about time management. Giving your team time and taking away time from your opponents.

anyways to answer the original question, your best option is to focus on learning to hit the kick on the rise so it cant spin off or kick up. To do this, force yoruself to stand a couple feet behind the service line and as soon as the toss goes up, take a couple small steps forward. split with a small hip/shoulder rotation and accelterate through the ball.
Have the serve start out serving high slow kickers, so you can get your footwork and timing adjusted and then slowly speed up as your comfort level increases.

great players become comfortable doing the uncomfortable.

Well, the problem with some of this is that I just don't think it true. Yes, occasionally you'll see players play two back at the higher levels but I don't think its necessarily for the reasons you stated.

For instance if I'm poaching a return of service, my chances are better against two back because the poach shouldn't be hit back to the baseline but rather angled off. You might have more time to react but your not going to reach the ball.

Presenting a "different look" sounds better than it actually is. Yeah, it will work a time or two but not as a regualar (normal) position. Drop shots from the baseline are questionable at best and if the opponents are in the "up" position they are, as you know, stupid.

As far as I'm concerned two back is still a defensive allignment - do you have any references that have it otherwise?

There are a couple of advantages but in most cases the disadvantages far outweigh the advantages. I know some of the kids (at the top levels) these days are playing the one up, one back formation and doing ok with it. You have to be very good to pull it off and I certainly would not suggest it to the average player because it won't work. However, when they play against two up opponents, they generally lose.

Two up is "generally" the best position for winning the pont.

I like your comment about "time management" in doubles. However, you have to be very carefull about not giving your opponents too much time. Playing two back gives them that "little extra time".

A lot of this depends on the level your playing and in many instances what works at one level just will not work at the other. Most good teams will close down the middle and force you to go for the angles - by keeping the ball in the middle they are going to force you to go for the difficult angles. Your not going to get set up for all these "down the line" shots and great angles that you dream about. The further back you play the more the angles disappear.

 

[10ispro]

Well, the problem with some of this is that I just don't think it true. Yes, occasionally you'll see players play two back at the higher levels but I don't think its necessarily for the reasons you stated.

Unless i dig through a bunch of stuff, the only thing I have that states the primary reason to return 2 back is from USTA conference and a presentation by Wayne Bryan, in which he went over why the Bryan Bros return 2 back, when everyone else is taught that both players to close the net as quickly as possible. HE actually went over alot of the drills and tactics they do to counter "traditional" doubles.

Also poaching, 90% of the balls go to the left or the right of the Service Line T , at or near the service line. Which is Why the recievers partner is positioned there; to cover the poach. But Its rare that you see a player get this ball back just b/c its a difficult low volley, often hit with alot of pace. Those that do get it back, tend to pop it up and then the point ends off that shot.
Moving the recievers partner back to just in front of the baseline , will allow an additional play on the ball. He can rip a groundstroke crosscourt to the server coming in and hopefully get it as his feet, he can throw up an offensive lob to push the other team back, He can attempt and inside in pass in the alley or go for a pass down the middle.

So I am not saying it can work for everyone, b/c quite simply it wont. Nor will playing traditional doubles of both coming in and taking over the net. With very few kids these days learning to volley properly or even how to play
doubles properly, You will start seeing alot more of the 2 back formation played banging and looping groundstrokes from the baseline in doubles.
but it is an option, that can and does work. To say this wont work, cant work etc is BS...and the reasonings look great on paper, but in reality what many people think should happen doesnt. Ive returned 2 back from Juniors through Colleges, In USTA leagues , Interclub etc...and Can honestly say, that from the 4.0-5.0 level that it can work quite well with the right partner. And there are some teams we played that it really didnt matter what we did b/c they were just too good, but playing 2 back added some drama to the match b/c at least we could get the point started.

 

[kevhen]

play two back and hit lob returns if you can't drive through these kick serves.

2 back is a great doubles formation if you know when and how to use it. If you are a great baseliner with good passing shots, lobs, footspeed, etc., it can be tough for your opponent to put balls away. If you are struggling with returns, it helps take the pressure off with your partner back on defense rather than being a target for the opposing netnam if you hit a weak return.

 

[chess9]

I hit my one handed backhand returns as a slice. I hit my forehands flat to slightly top. I feel best with this arrangement on kick serve as I hold the racquet with a Continental grip for returns. I also stand ON THE BASELINE for these serves and move into it. I do this because most guys I know who hit aggressive kick serves also come to the net. That combo can be a bear to defend against, particularly at 5.0 and above.

I have tried to hit heavy topspin backhand returns of serve, but have found the timing is too tricky for a man of my age and limited ability. I play with a French guy with something like a 20.x French rating and he just pounds topspin returns off his backhand wing. He's pretty young (35) and fairly strong, but that shot is a pro level shot. Good thing he can't volley as well. Anyway, I don't think a backhand topspin return is within the reach of many players under 5.0. I may be wrong, of course.

-Robert

 

[Lindros13]

Your best option is to step in and hit it early before the kick serve bounces too high. It seems tough, but keep telling yourself to step in. Even if you only block it, but keep it low and get it early. Otherwise, if it kicks high, it will be tough to control no matter what.

 

[TENNIS_IS_FUN]

miso soup...

 

[papa]

Unless i dig through a bunch of stuff, the only thing I have that states the primary reason to return 2 back is from USTA conference and a presentation by Wayne Bryan, in which he went over why the Bryan Bros return 2 back, when everyone else is taught that both players to close the net as quickly as possible. HE actually went over alot of the drills and tactics they do to counter "traditional" doubles.

Also poaching, 90% of the balls go to the left or the right of the Service Line T , at or near the service line. Which is Why the recievers partner is positioned there; to cover the poach. But Its rare that you see a player get this ball back just b/c its a difficult low volley, often hit with alot of pace. Those that do get it back, tend to pop it up and then the point ends off that shot.
Moving the recievers partner back to just in front of the baseline , will allow an additional play on the ball. He can rip a groundstroke crosscourt to the server coming in and hopefully get it as his feet, he can throw up an offensive lob to push the other team back, He can attempt and inside in pass in the alley or go for a pass down the middle.

So I am not saying it can work for everyone, b/c quite simply it wont. Nor will playing traditional doubles of both coming in and taking over the net. With very few kids these days learning to volley properly or even how to play
doubles properly, You will start seeing alot more of the 2 back formation played banging and looping groundstrokes from the baseline in doubles.
but it is an option, that can and does work. To say this wont work, cant work etc is BS...and the reasonings look great on paper, but in reality what many people think should happen doesnt. Ive returned 2 back from Juniors through Colleges, In USTA leagues , Interclub etc...and Can honestly say, that from the 4.0-5.0 level that it can work quite well with the right partner. And there are some teams we played that it really didnt matter what we did b/c they were just too good, but playing 2 back added some drama to the match b/c at least we could get the point started.

Well, I watched the Bryan brothers play a couple of weeks ago and unless they have just started playing two back, they certainly didn't then.

Yes a lot of poached ball will go where you indicated but if both are playing back you just don't put the ball there. In the "one up one back" formation its not a bad target but not when both are back - poor target then.

I don't think you'll find more teams playing two back - it simply isn't a good formation. Maybe against other two back teams or weaker teams it might work but in general I think it a bad tactic. Often a weaker team reverts to playing two back because they can't seem to get to many balls so it might extend the point a shot or two more but its difficult to win that way.